Someone Else's Clock: Mayra Arntz on Where the Money Goes and Why

A Firm owners, the move that cuts this year's tax bill have to be in place before December 31st, and most take months to set up. I use Gelt, who I partnered with on this episode, but also in my business, and they saved me over $10,000 in year one. Visit joingelt.com, that's J-O-I-N-G-E-L-T.com, to sign up for a consultation and mention Practice of Architecture for 10% off your first year. Welcome to Practice Disrupted, the podcast on the business of architecture and how it's changing. I'm your host, Evelyn Lee, FAIA, NOMA, architect, angel investor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're running a firm, starting your career, or rethinking what practice looks like, this show gets into how architects actually change the way they work. Hello, disruptors. Welcome back to this week's episode of Practice Disrupted.

A I have said on this show for a long time that the business model is what holds this profession back. Today, I want to hear that argument from the other side of the table, from someone whose job is deciding where the money in this industry actually goes. Hi, I'm And who will tell you plainly why so little of it comes to architects. Mayra Arns is a principal at Building Ventures, an early-stage firm investing in technology for the built environment. She got there by a route almost nobody in venture takes. Her father builds roads and bridges in Peru, and when she was small, he took her to job sites in the middle of nowhere where she watched what a road does after it arrives. People come, then there's somewhere to stay, then somewhere to eat, then trade between 2 towns that could not reach each other before. She studied civil engineering because Peru had no construction management degree, and then asked to be sent to the mines on the theory that if she built a mine, she could build anything.

A She lived at an open-pit mine, 21 days on, And 7 off. She came to the United States for an MBA, mostly because she had never left Peru, and picked San Francisco because California looks sunny in the movies. She landed in 2015, not knowing it was the center of the technology industry. She noticed quickly how much software existed and how little construction used it. She joined HoloBuilder as the only person there with a construction background, and became head of product, spent time at Stanley Black& Decker working on investments and acquisitions, and has been at Building Ventures since 2022. We get into why the money goes to construction and to owners and so rarely to architects. Her answer is not about what architects are worth. It's about what firms are willing to pay.

A We get into what she tells a founder who wants to build for architects anyway, And we get into the fact that venture money is not the only way to build a company, which is worth hearing from a venture capitalist. Her father bootstrapped his.

B Let's get into it. Hi, Mayra. Welcome to the show. So happy to have you on Practice Disrupted.

C Hi, Evelyn. Thank you so much for having me. So excited for the conversation today.

B Yeah. So, we brought Jesse from Building Ventures on previously, but I always love to talk to a woman in this space. Because honestly, you don't see a lot of women in this space. So thank you just for taking the time out of your day.

C Yes, of course.

B This is a new question that I've kind of been dropping at the top of the episode. So hopefully you don't mind. When someone asks you, like when someone outside of the industry asks you, what do you tell them that you do?

C Well, that actually has come up more often now that I moved to Austin. And I usually tell them that I invest in construction technology, which automatically makes people think that I'm rich or something. And then I proceed to explain what a venture capital do, which basically is get money from limited partners, which can be institutions, other big corporations, big firms, or very wealthy individuals. And then allocate this capital into very risky business with the potential of really good ROI over the time of 10 to 12 years. So, it's basically transforming into a 10x return at the minimum. So, not rich, but helping founders in the construction space to bring the industry forward.

B So you got into the construction space because you come from a construction family. What did you love about the industry before you ever decided to work in it yourself?

C My dad builds roads and bridges. He has a company that does that in Peru, where I am originally from. So he took me to the job site in the middle of nowhere since a very early age, and I just got too obsessed. How development came to be. So usually roads are where there is nothing. And then first you bring the people in. And of course, these people need somewhere to stay and somewhere to eat. So you start seeing a little bit of commerce in the cities.

C And then the road that, you know, bring together 2 communities also makes it that there is commerce between these 2 cities and have more access to infrastructure. And the people itself that live in there, like those kids, they just get exposed to a new type of career and business model. So I really fell in love with the development that construction brings into whatever it gets done. And also with the fact that we get to experience it and we get to live on it.

B And that applies for every type of There's a lot of different degrees that you could pursue within the industry. Why did you start off in civil engineering?

C I would say in, in Peru, there's no construction management. So there's, if you want to go the construction path, you have, the options are either civil engineering or design architecture, maybe. So it was clear to me that civil engineering, it was the path that I needed to take in order to be on the field.

B So, talk about being in the field and earlier in career. Just tell us about the early days.

C I, well, I started doing some internships in a structural engineering firm, and that's kind of how I learned that I wasn't meant to be a structural engineer, 'cause I just didn't like to run the models through ETABS or SAP, and I was more interested in actual, like, field and production. And then after that, I went to join one of the biggest construction companies in Peru at the time in their BIM department. And it was, I don't know if it was the early days of BIM, but it was definitely the early days of BIM in Peru. And this is 20— oh, 2012. And I was just very excited to see what digital tools could do in the space. However, Since, you know, I come from the infrastructure world, I was still missing the field experience. And that's actually how I ended up requesting my manager to send me to mining projects because in my mind I thought, okay, if I can build mines, I can build anything.

B Yeah, that's, I feel like that's an interesting request, especially coming from a young woman to go live at the mine. So talk to us about being in the field again and what you loved about that rotation. And just to be clear, for most people who don't realize what that is, it's literally like you're 20 days on and 7 days off, right?

C Yes, there is different, there is different regimens. So you could do, there is ones that are 14/7, there is one like mine, which was 21/7. There is really extreme ones where it's like 35/7 or 35/14. Um, so it really depends on the project, but the office, like working on a BIM department or just the headquarters of a company, like maybe if you are doing estimates or, you know, like winning the projects, it's very different from being on the field. On the field, I love the team collaboration. If you spend so much time there, you become one. Like, you're living in the same environment with them. Furthermore, there is a mentality of taking care of each other because the construction, when you are in the field, is actually very, very dangerous.

C So line of command matters a lot, but just taking care of each other every time that you step in the field. And the goal is that everyone comes home safe. So that definitely made a difference. It feels also that you're working under a lot of pressure. Everything feels like yesterday, and it really makes your brain to, you know, engineer solutions to fix the problems that come up on a daily basis. Not saying that that's not what you experience in the office, but it's just at a different level.

B Do you ever miss that type of work?

C I miss the team. I miss the team building. There is a lot of camaraderie. I spent, back then I was in project controls, and just to clarify, when I went to work in the mine, I didn't work in extracting the minerals. I worked in building the facilities. So, when we would get there, there was nothing. And additionally, I worked in open pit mines, so not underground. And in my role, I would spend half of the day outside in the field because I was just tracking progress, and then half of the day in the trailer, processing the information to pass it to the other team members.

C But I do miss a lot that camaraderie. I think there is some overlap of that with startup companies. I work at a startup, Holobuilder, and it was also a time in my life where it was full dedication to work. There was no social life. My coworkers were my friends, and the only thing that we talked day in and day out was, you know, work stuff. It was fun also.

B When you came to the United States, you came for an MBA, and I think a lot of architects that I talk to kind of— actually, I just talked to an architect this morning who is still considering and debating and has been debating for over a decade whether or not she should pursue an MBA. So why did you pursue one?

C If I am 100% honest, I had never been out of Peru and doing the MBA was an opportunity for me to see the world. I chose a program that had rotation. So my goal was to do San Francisco, then go to Dubai and end the program in London. And I thought to myself, I'll do this program. It's a 1-year commitment. And then I come back to Peru and I will never have to think about it again. Very naive. Once I did the program, it opened my mind so much and it was just really hard to pretend that these things are not out there.

C So that's kind of like how I made my decision.

B And talk to us about the differences you were seeing in the advancements of technology versus Kind of the lack of use of technology that you had in your experiences in the field?

C So when I got— I did my MBA in 2015 in San Francisco. And when I came to San Francisco, I didn't know that it was the mecca of technology. I picked San Francisco because it was in California and from the movies, California is sunny. That's not true also. But I go to San Francisco and, you know, it's such a cosmopolitan city. Also being doing the MBA, you learn from so many other different careers. Like there is people from marketing and business and doctors and people that have worked in procurement. So there is a bunch of that.

C You get to talk about how they work in their fields. And then you are in San Francisco where you are exposed to all the technologies. And I think when I got there, it was just the technology just like kept growing. They were just building the Salesforce building. Uber and Lyft were in this battle. Tech is everywhere. And you get to see how, which systems software engineers are using. I was there, of course, I was learning about technology in the classroom about SEO and all the other tools for like marketing teams and people that work in finance.

C And it just became clear to me that I had never seen any of this in the construction space at the different roles that I've had. Probably at the time, the most disruptive technology was BIM, which I got in in 2012. But beyond that, it was all, you know, Oracle ERP and SharePoint, AutoCAD, which had been years in the space, P6, which I learned P6 from my dad. So, there was no real innovation from my experience in Peru. And when I started talking to people in the Bay Area, like, in the construction field, I realized that it was very similar to their experience. And in my head, it was like, well, why do we need to work so hard when there is other industries that just have a, have an easier time at work.

B Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned HoloBuilder. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what you were doing there?

C I met the founder of HoloBuilder at a career fair and he had this like VR, like 360 image experience. And the first time that I saw it, I was like, oh my God, if I would've had this when I was working at the mine, I could have not had to physically be at the mine because I could have experienced the project that we were building through my computer and report on the progress. And it was clear to me that that was the use case. No one at the company at the time had a construction background. So I joined initially as an intern, as a construction expert, and just, you know, telling, like, just sharing all my experience from what I had seen at the field. And at some point, it was, I joined them 2016, and that's also the time where we got the investment. And our first round was from Brick& Mortar, and they were interested in the firm pursuing the construction, the progress tracking use case, that's when I really got more and more involved in the product and, you know, taking those experiences that I had from the field that were very similar to what everyone else was having and transform them in something useful for the field. Of course, I wore many hats during my time at HoloBuilder, but head of product was my primary function.

B I want to talk a little bit about technology adoption because I think one of the biggest things we talk about, or I like to talk about relative to AI, is it's one thing to give your workforce Claude, right? It's another thing for people to actually use it. Reality capture was relatively new back then. So what was the hardest part of getting people who you worked with, like similarly in your mining experience, to change? How they work to adopt the technology?

C I think when we were showing them the 360 images, everyone was like, they would go through this like, wow moment, which I wish I had videos of that. But I think that's very similar to what you see with like VR, AR, like things that people get to experience for the first time. To your point, not because it's a cool technology means adoption by the industry. What everyone is competing with in this space is the status quo and the mentality of, if it's not broken, why change it? You know, let's just keep using our spreadsheet. Like, we have been using that for the last 10 years and we have made great revenues with that. Why change it? The second thing is time. And I think here, a lot of entrepreneurs miss that, have not been on the field, miss to understand how demanding are these jobs. Taking time to learn something new usually comes out of your personal time.

C So on top of the list that you, of things that you need to do, You need to take time to not only understand how the software works, but what is the value of it and how it's going to impact your work over the long run. And it's very challenging to put a value for things that haven't happened yet. So, if I say you will be able to track progress, so you will catch errors before they happen. Well, it's like, well, if the error hasn't happened, like, what is the value? Exactly. So that's those two. I think those are the two biggest challenges that I see for adoption in the industry. And it was like that back then. And it is still like that today.

B Now, tell us when you started moving on into the other side of the table, specifically At Stanley, what were you doing then?

C It was a very different role. Like, the commonality is that I was still working in construction technology, but the big difference is that when you are at a startup, you need to be hyper-focused on what you're building to make it successful. There is no other option. Maybe you will look a little bit on your competitors and incubants, but you are very much hyper-focused on building your company. When you go to a role like the one that I had at Stanley, you get to see everything that is out there. And at Stanley, I was working at the Stanley X Division, which was the innovation division. In my specific role, I was partnering with the corporate venture capital of Stanley. Because in my role, we were doing a strategy for deciding on M&A investments or partnerships, even developing products in-house.

C While you are seeing everything that is on the horizon, you need to bring it down to what is the company core strategy and really think, what are the goals of this company over the next 10 years? And what are the pillars for that strategy? Usually, you create a number of decision markers that allow you to make decisions regarding investing, partnering, M&A, with the ultimate goal of getting to that company core strategy. So, it was just a very different part of my brain at that time.

B It is a very different part of your brain. So, what changes about technology when your job is to decide, this is a company that we are going to buy, rather than that hyper-focused mentality of, I just need to deliver a product?

C It's, it's a strategy. So, when you are building a company, you are thinking, what is your marketing strategy to make people, to create awareness about the product? What is your sales strategy? How are you going to take the leads through the funnel? What next features you need to deliver to bring value to your customers? So, it's just like company building. As a company gets bigger, it's about culture. Like, how do you, if you are going to, if you are 20 people and you're thinking to double to 40 this year, well, how are you going to make sure that the culture stays? And you add in that mix, how do you convince investors? to allocate capital to your, to your vision, right? When, when you work at a company, at a corporation like Stanley Black& Decker, where they already have multiple lines of business that are generating billions of dollars, the question becomes, what is worth our time and resources? $1 million in a company like Like, Stanley doesn't move the needle at all. So, it's a different set of questions to decide, okay, is this really worth our time internally to go try to build it? Or is it, you know, is it better just to incorporate and acquire this company and save us 12 months to even try to go and try to develop in-house?

A Here's the thing about year-end tax planning. Owner compensation, retirement plans, PTE elections. They only count on this year's returns if they're set up before the calendar runs out. And your current CPA is probably reactive. Gelt CPAs, they build the plan, run a calculated year-end projection so you know exactly where you stand, and support your firm year-round. Start now at joingelt.com. That's J-O-I-N-G-E-L-T.com and mention Practice of Architecture for 10% off your first year.

B When you made the move to Stanley, how did you find out about this particular division of Stanley? Because your average person in the hardware store picking up products has no idea that this is all going on, like, at Stanley corporate. And I don't think most architects even realize that.

C I have, and maybe this is a little piece of advice or a secret. I always keep my LinkedIn on searching for new opportunities. Even if I'm happy at my job, I'm not looking for anything. Over my years in my career, that has helped me to gauge how much I should ask for a raise. And probably in your company, they're not going to raise someone else that is trying to get you. But if you're happy there, you can say, well, you know, this company is offering me this much. I know that you cannot, you know, match that, but how about we do this? Right? So that is, that is good. It also helps you to learn what others are doing.

C So when I was a HoloBuilder, I got, I got reached out by recruiters working at other software companies. So then I would go a little bit on the process and where I felt comfortable and learned some of their strategy and then think, okay, how does this impact our company? And that's really actually how I got pitched into joining Stanley. Like someone from their HR team reached out to me and we started conversations. Initially, I wasn't really looking into changing roles at all. I was extremely happy at HoloBuilder. But the more I engaged with their team, I realized that I would have a bigger impact in the construction industry by joining an organization like that than staying in my current role. And one thing to know about me is I really care about the industry. I care at a personal level about it.

C And the goal has always been, how can we move the industry forward?

B I wanna talk a little bit about one of the companies that you, you acquired, because they reviewed drawing sets and found connections across them. There are so many startups coming into this space right now where it's hard to decide, like, who is doing it better. Can you tell us about first mover advantage and how fast people are moving on that side of things in the industry right now that we might not be aware of? our listeners might not be aware of?

C First, I want to share how investors think. I'm not sure if all of them are doing it this way, but at least from the ones that I know, they are constantly evaluating multiple scenarios. The whole landscape can change within 10 years, right? Like, you invest in a company today, you may not see the outcome in 5, 8 years, and so much can change in between. Technology can change, nature can change, policy. COVID happened in 2020. Like, there's so many things that can change, and that strategic thinking, it's very important. There are a lot of articles right now talking about the SaaS apocalypse. These are things that people had to contemplate when they made it, not really back then when they were making the investments, but today, what things are worth keeping.

C I don't think, I don't think founders understand really how the VC model works. But you focus on the companies that are gonna be successful. And this is one of the reasons why, as an investor, many times, or most of the time, you are investing in the people. You are investing in the founders. How quickly can the founder adapt to the future? If they have been doing, you know, SaaS, how quickly can they cannibalize their own solution to stay in the future? That's the kind of person, founder that we are looking. searching, because if that's, if that's true, they will figure out a way to take what is out there and solve the problem.

B So talk a little bit more about what it means to be on the VC side of things, right? You stated like you missed the camaraderie of having a broader team. You just did a move. So I'm assuming that, you know, most of your team is acting Remote. What is, what is a day in the life of? Are you like reviewing pitches all day? Are you running, are you in, you know, spreadsheets running numbers? Are you diving deep on founder exploration?

A What are you doing?

C It depends at which type of fund you're working at. In my case, Building Ventures focuses on early stage, you know, late seed, Series A. So, when there is some type of revenue and we are hyper-focused in the built environment, so construction and proptech. Venture capital is an industry that requires a lot of networking, networking with other investors, networking with corporations that could be potential customers for your, for your portfolio companies, networking with founders, universities to learn new trends, professional experts in the industry to learn what is coming. You network with PE firms, potential acquirers. So there is a lot of networking and I would say that's where I spend most of my time. The other more operational pieces of the job are related to deal sourcing. So finding new entrepreneurs, what they are trying to do here in their pitches, see where you can help them socialize a little bit of what they're doing to see if there is momentum, doing running operations and organizing systems within Building Ventures, meeting with the portfolio companies, meeting with the strategic LPs.

C So that's, that's where I spend most of my time. Building Ventures does 4 deals a year. Other firms do more, but because we do 4 deals a year and we tend to do 2 in contact and 2 in Prop tech, there is few points in time during the year where I will run due diligence in the deal. And due diligence, that's when I will spend my time looking at numbers and doing financial forecasts, preparing documentation. And then only if the deal goes through the cross line, that's when you start, you know, working on like term sheets.

B So you mentioned con-tak and prop-tak, and, you know, there's a lot of news out there about more investment coming into the AEC industry. Why is the AEC industry such a compelling place to invest in?

C Adoption is still low. If you think about companies like Procore, right, like what is their market penetration? 10% globally. There is so much room to create to create technology and be adopted. So, I think that's, that's what makes it attractive. There is nothing, or there is not many solutions in the construction space that are like a, you know, Microsoft where everyone has adopted. Like you look at the construction industry, probably everyone is running on Microsoft products, but you don't see the same thing for ERP system, for example. There's multiple options out there and no one that dominates the space. So I think that makes it attractive.

C Also, there is only over the last 10 years, it's really where we have seen an uptick on solutions made for the industry. So there is still a lot of challenges that haven't been solved that will require technology and new ones. That are appearing, right? Like when I think about the future, and I see how the landscape for data center construction is changing, and energy, energy storage, solar, those are problems like the scale of those projects, and how demanding they are when it comes to procure the materials for it, the labor for it. and the speed to deliver, those are challenges that we didn't have 5 years ago. So, this landscape keeps changing, and it keeps bringing opportunity to create technology that will have an impact.

B I get that. And I mean, that all goes back to even you being in the field, right? And seeing so little technology implemented there to begin with. And why would we change something that is doing, that we've done for so long, so well? So you mentioned contech and proptech, which is still like on the C side of things. Proptech is a little bit more on the O side of it, like the, right, the ownership side of things. Why is it so hard to invest in the A side of things? Or to create for the A side of things?

C I think there is, it's a mix of things. To create, I would imagine that you need more people familiar with the problems for solutions to be created. And then it goes back to the question, is there an appetite for professionals on that side of the equation to move? To the unknown. I think people underestimate how hard it is to create, you know, to leave a job where you have insurance, you know what's going to happen in the future, and come to the unknown where the company may— most companies don't succeed. Like most companies die. And additionally, it's the skillset. Maybe you're a great designer. And you love the creativity that that involves, that skillset.

C And when what you enjoy doing applies to building a company where if you are the CEO, you are not going to be spending your time in the product, you're probably going to be spending your time building a company, which, and managing expectations from your investors. That's, those are 2 different skillsets. The second piece to it is how quickly companies grow. And again, this is a part where maybe not many founders understand the venture capital model, but once you take venture capital, you need to grow at a certain speed. To grow revenue, there is only 2 options. Either you get more customers or you charge more. Those are the 2 options. And from that perspective, you need to think about your customer base.

C What is the wallet size or price elasticity that the architectural firms and engineering firms are willing to take? Is there enough of those for you to take a company from zero to a billion? Because that's a type of company that VCs want to put the money on it. Like, we are promising to our LPs that we're going to transform their money into a 10x return. We have fiduciary responsibility to them on accomplishing that goal. So, when we are evaluating solutions, software solutions that are, or technology in general, that is focusing on that side of the industry, the question is, Can they grow quickly enough? And is there appetite from these types of firms to spend money? And they, as a founder, you need to think about that these firms are looking into not only their solution, but how much are they spending in other software solutions that are required to perform the jobs, right?

B There's a lot of talk around, so, you know, AI and generative design in general right now. And they're big incumbents that have teams dedicated to these things. What has to be true of, like, a little startup to survive against these larger incumbents? Are they just more scrappy? Do they just move quicker?

C I think in a part, that's true. Then the other question is, what is your goal as an, as an entrepreneur, right? Like, is your goal to get acquired by one of these incubants? Or is it your goal to build a competitor to one of these incubants? Like, let's think about Motif, for example. And if that's the case, well, You're going to need a lot of cash to do that, to paint that vision. That's reality. Because you need to hire the talent, like the talent that is going to be able to do your sales, the talent that is going to be able to create awareness, to create your product, to do better and faster. So, that's where it comes again down to what is your goal? As a founder, what is the end goal for it?

B When founders are looking at the possibility of building in the architect space or building for architects, you've kind of created this argument that there's like not nearly an amount of room for growth there as in the construction space. Can you get honest with us and tell us kind of why that is?

C It's the— it comes down to the wallet size, right? Like the wallet size of the architectural firms is not as big as the wallet size of an owner, of a general contractor. You just need to look in the revenues and how much they are willing to spend in technology. And if the wallet size is not there for the companies to scale, like the market is not big enough, and it's not big enough as in there is not enough firms, it's more about like, well, this is how many companies are out there. This is their buying power. This is all the other software that they need to pay for. Well, the model doesn't work unless you are really taking, you know, that you are going to be the primary solution for generative design and they don't have to touch anything related to, let's say, Autodesk, right? Unless you are that company. And again, for that, you need a lot of cash. The other piece of it is, can you, if that's not the possibility, can the solution that you're building get extrapolated? To other workflows.

C How can you acquire more workflows so your pricing increases over time at the firm, or maybe your pricing increases at a different set of stakeholders? A great example of that is Kantive, which used to be Joyce. They started selling at the AE firm, but quickly realized that this is actually for the full AEC. So the workflow just extrapolated Then your market, it's so much bigger.

B Architects aren't wealthy is essentially what you're saying.

C Yeah. I mean, how, what is the willingness to pay? That's, that's basically, that's the primary.

B We're, we're very, very low generally.

C That's the argument about it, right?

B Yeah, absolutely. So, you also have an interesting point to be made as a venture capitalist, because I am not interested in pursuing VC. And you talked kind of about the treadmill that people and founders get on once they get VC money, right? They have to scale, they have to grow, they have to make more money for their investors. But there are other ways to build a business. Do you want to talk about those other ways?

C Well, you can bootstrap. If you think about the construction firms, that's how everyone does it. And there is a number of solutions out there that have bootstrapped. I can tell you, my dad bootstrapped his construction company. So that's definitely the easiest way to do it. Um, I would say today there has never been an easier time to start a software company. And there is a handful of solutions out there that have done it. An alternative to that, and I think more and more about that, is taking CVC money, right? I think back about my days at Stanley.

C If your end goal is to sell to one of the incumbents, let's just put it as a scenario. Well, do you need venture capital money, or could you get some SAFE notes from a number of architectural firms that know that within 5 to 8 years, you're going to sell the company for maybe a 4x return? It's just like part of like evaluating what are other options out there. Maybe something that actually can be something that acquired by one of the architectural firms and be a new line of businesses. I mean, this is definitely something that we would evaluate when, when we, when I was at Sunny, like if we invest in this company and it grows, can we incorporate it as a new line of business for our corporation? So venture capital money has got a lot of great marketing, especially if you are in the Bay Area, but it's not the only way. And there are other successful businesses that haven't taken VC money. And when I say successful, right, like if you're a team of 10, well, $5 million a year, $3 million a year, that's a great business every single day.

B There are people listening to the episode right now who want to build something of their own. So, a product, a service, a small firm, because you talk about investing in the people a lot. Are there any traits that are common amongst the investments or the, the companies that you find are most successful, whether it's being super focused or something else?

C I think belief, like, it takes a lot of belief. Like that you believe in this so much that you are willing to take the risk, because you are going to hear so many nos. This kind of you don't, you're not going to get customers. You talk to customers, say, "Well, I don't need this." And the founders that I've seen that that even myself, I'm like, "Oh my God! How is this person keep going at it?" It's the ones that believe. so much in what they are building that I— they're just willing to keep going and taking the risk.

B There are very few women in the VC space. I feel like you're really kind of unique at what you're doing and the career path you took and how you got there. What do you say to other women that are interested in kind of channeling your career path? What would you say to someone who wants to follow in your footsteps?

C I would say, take the risk, take the spotlight. This is a male-dominated industry, and the mix is very male-dominated. Like, we're talking here about construction, software, and venture capital. And I think if we want to see more women in this space, there needs to be more women that take the spotlight, that serve to others to think, she's doing it, I should be able to do it. And many times, and it has happened to me, I've felt unprepared. I think the more you do it, the more prepared you'll feel. But also, I have heard so many other professionals coming to the stage without preparation, taking the spotlight where they're saying things and I'm like, that's, that's not right. And they just go for it.

C So that's, that's my advice. It's like, take the spotlight, take the risk if you, if you want to do it. Worst thing that could happen is that it doesn't work and then you do something else.

B I want to end by looking out the future of the AEC industry. Where does money in this industry go? next? And what will we be able to build in the future that we may not be able to build right now?

C I'm gonna be— I'm gonna go really far on the future now.

B Yeah, maybe go for it.

C 10 years. But I think space. I live in Austin, so maybe I'm just, you know, channeling NASA into Elon Musk right now. But, you know, when you learn things that he's building, The facilities for the spaceship to have launches every day in Louisiana. He's trying to get that project going in the next 2 years. And we already know that he did some of these mega factories for the batteries in 16 months. We just never heard of the speed that they have delivered projects. You really start thinking, oh, there's a big chance that these things are going to happen.

C And 10 years, I don't think that's a wild thought. I mean, there's other things, right? Like, think about robotaxis. Like, it was not a thing 10 years ago when I got to San Francisco. Today, I wanted to go to the store, I had to choose between Zoox, which is Amazon robotaxi, Waymo, that's Alphabet robotaxi, Tesla just released a robotaxi today. And then there is Uber, you know, that's like people. So, and this has been like, over the last 5 years that we have seen so many of these robotaxis. And when I think about space, I'm not thinking about Mars or the moon. I'm thinking, well, what if someone puts a station out there that, you know, people just go and take a weekend on space and commercial is real? Even, even if it's not commercial, then would you just have more scientists going there? Someone is going to have to build that.

C Someone is gonna have to design it. Someone is gonna have to manufacture the materials that are gonna be put there. Someone is gonna have to plan how the project is gonna be constructed. So all the same things that we do here to create physical stuff, we are gonna need to do to create physical stuff out there.

A Hi, disruptors. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Practice Disrupted. Want more of this between episodes? Start with Practice Rebuilt, our weekly newsletter on the business of architecture at practiceofarchitecture.com/newsletter. And when you're ready to stop reading about change and start testing it in your own firm, get on the list for The Lab at practiceofarchitecture.com/lab. practiceofarchitecture.com/lab. We'll see you next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.