Architecture, And: Nonprofit Design Education

A This episode of practice disrupted is supported by Monograph, the cloud based practice operations solution built for architects by architects. Section Cut, the interactive virtual conference from our friends at Monograph. Learn more at sectioncut.com.

B And Twinmotion, the simple real time rendering solution to create high quality imagery, client presentations, and interactive experiences that help communicate your design ideas fast. I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

B Welcome to Practice Disrupted.

A Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

B Hello, Evelyn. Hey, disruptors.

A Welcome back to Practice Disrupted. This week's guest, I learned about her from a series that the young architects in Chicago were doing during the pandemic where they were having monthly get togethers, and her name is Maya Bird Murphy.

B Maya actually created her own nonprofit to solve a problem that she saw in the world. She is merging architecture and social impact to influence change in her community.

A Right. And I'm hoping that, you know, as you listen to the conversation, you know, Maya started this nonprofit directly out of school. So I think she's an exciting example of what this next generation is doing, is currently graduating from school, what they're capable of, and the space that they are really interested in exploring and playing in and being a part of. So with that, Janine, why don't you read her bio?

B Maya Bird Murphy is an architectural designer, educator, and maker from Oak Park, Illinois. She's also the founder and executive director of Chicago Mobile Makers, an award winning nonprofit organization bringing design focused skill building workshops to underrepresented communities. Maya believes that architecture should not be a privilege and must expand to accommodate more people through teaching and community engagement. She is the recipient of the AIA Illinois 2020 Allen Madison Award and was featured in Dwell Magazine.

A So a little bit more about Chicago Mobile Makers, her nonprofit organization. Chicago Mobile Makers creates programming that encourages Chicago youth to become advocates and change makers in their own communities through design focused skill building workshops. Their objectives are threefold. 1, engage and empower youth through making and skill building. 2, train and support future public interest architects, designers, and makers, and 3, advocate for social, economic, gender, and racial diversity in the architecture and broader design fields. Let's cut to the conversation.

C Hi. I'm Maya Berg Murphy. I'm the founder and executive director of Chicago Mobile Makers. I have a background in architecture. I went to undergrad and grad school in architecture. And then, when I was doing my grad school thesis, I founded Chicago Mobile Makers, which is a nonprofit that does problem solving and, design thinking workshops for youth all over the city.

A What initially spurred that idea while you were in school? Why why did you want to pursue that for your graduate thesis?

C Yeah. I mean, I think to to answer that question, I feel like I have to go, like, way back to the beginning because it was it was a true process. So I grew up in a place that had a lot of architecture, and so I was really privileged to just have access to it, immediately. And I like to say that I acquired architecture and there are so many communities everywhere in our country and in the world where there isn't architecture at all, and sometimes there's not even building going on in neighborhoods. And so once I left, Oak Park, I went to Ball State, which is in Muncie, Indiana, and it was a very different place than Oak Park, especially, with demographics. So I found myself in a situation where I was very often the only person of color in the room, sometimes the only woman in the room. So I I was as I went through life, I kept picking up these issues that I was seeing around me. Finally, I graduated and then started working in the field and figured out that this was the same thing in the field and that I was constantly going to be, you know, one of the only people of color in the entire firm.

C And so I think that thesis was really the first time I got to sit down and reflect on all of these experiences that I was having and all of these thoughts and feelings I was having. And then, you know, I didn't know this was gonna become a nonprofit. It it just happened, basically. But all of the research and development during my thesis became Chicago Mobile Makers and actually incorporated during, during grad school right before I graduated.

B That's amazing. So what was the kinda catalyst in terms of actually taking it from concept into a real entity that you were working on?

C Yeah. I mean, I think that I knew going into my thesis process and into grad school that I wanted to do something with my thesis. I didn't wanna do all of this work for a year, and then it's just over. So I already came in with the intent to do something with it, but I give a lot of credit to my thesis professor who is an entrepreneur also, and he was like, oh, you know that this can be a real thing. And so when it was summertime and I was supposed to be, like, finally real relaxing because I was I was doing grad school and working full time at the same time, He was, like, sending me business plan templates and was really pushing me to to make this a real thing. And so, you know, for my final presentation in in my thesis was like, hey. We're a real company now, and we have our 501c3. And then I had this jumping off point right after graduation to start doing workshops.

B That's amazing. That's really brave of you to to try and just go out and and see if you can make it happen right out of school.

C Yeah. And I and I wouldn't even you know, maybe it was brave, but I think I was really looking for a lifestyle that fit better for me, and I knew that working in a traditional firm was not going to work. And, you know, I tried it, and I've I've honestly worked at 5 firms at this point. So I just knew that working in an office for 40 hours wasn't gonna be my thing. And so I I that was really motivation to work really hard on this and get this off the ground.

A You're not doing Chicago Mobile Makers full time now, are you? Or or am I mistaken?

C No. It's still not full time. So I started it when, like I said, I was working full time. I was doing grad school, finishing up grad school, and I, right before graduation, incorporated the the business, and I was doing it. I was working full time at an architecture firm and trying to do Chicago Mobile Makers on the side, And so it was fine for a little bit, and then we started becoming too busy with Chicago Mobile Makers. And then it got to the point where I knew that I had to try to find a part time position. That's a little bit hard in the architecture field. And I and I will say that I was doing marketing.

C I was in a marketing position, so it made it a little bit easier for me to have flexibility. And as long as I was getting you know, hitting deadlines, it was fine. But there was a point where I was just, like, needing to leave too much during the day because I was going into schools during the school day, and, my firm was supportive to a point. And so I started looking for a part time position, and I and I lucked out and found my current position, which is also marketing, but it's a part time position. I have a very, very supportive boss. And so now I'm doing it kind of half and half, but I do believe that this is the year that it's that Chicago Mobile Makers is gonna become full time.

B That's exciting to hear. Maybe we should talk about the business model and the vision and the social impact that you're trying to create in the world. Can you explain, like, what the business is and what you do?

C Yeah. So we do design thinking and problem solving workshops all over the city and it's mostly with youth, ages 8 to 18, but we really go around and ask kids about what they wanna see in their neighborhood. And so it's about, you know, giving kids a voice, but then it's also about giving them tangible skills that they can use wherever they go. So I always like to say that we're not necessarily trying to create a bunch of architects. We really wanna create good citizens that care about their communities and actually have the skills, you know, and have the agency to make that change. And so we do this in a lot of forms. We we do pop ups. We have a truck that I'll talk about where we go into different neighborhoods and and just engage people as they walk by.

C But then we also have, you know, 6 month workshop series that, we really dive deep into the design process and and sometimes we're even transforming physical space out in communities.

A Very cool. Yeah. So you mentioned the truck. Can you tell us a little bit more about the the truck? And, it's an it's an old mail carrier truck. Right?

C Yeah. So the the funny thing is that you can buy these trucks. It's a USPS truck, and you can just buy them like it's a used car. So I went to a dealership and and bought this off the lot, and, we converted it. It took about a year to do the entire conversion just because we were fundraising at the same time. We were trying to build it out. But last summer, summer 2020, we finished the build out of the truck, and now it's we're calling it a mobile major space, but it's kind of like a mobile design studio. It has a lot of storage in it, and, it was made to look very nice and comfy at the same time even though it's really made for working.

C We we haven't really been able to see the potential of the truck yet just because summer 2020 was so difficult, but we really wanted to keep the positivity up. Now we're hoping this spring summer, we've already started booking pop ups, and we're hoping that we can really see the full potential of the truck. And that is to do pop ups, but then also to do design build workshops. And so that is when we're actually transforming space with youth and communities, with the power of the truck. And the the truck is completely self powered. So it has solar panels on the roof and has a bunch of tools inside, and so we can literally drive up and park and complete a project.

B I think it's really ambitious. Like, if our listeners haven't had a chance yet, please go to Maya's website and take a look at this truck because you can see the lot, getting it off as a off the lot as an old mail carrier into this really beautiful functional space. And I think it's ambitious that you guys it's kinda cool to think about, like, buying this asset and then actually doing the construction process to flip the truck into something that is a bit of architecture that you can drive right into the community and and hopefully inspire somebody to come up and talk to you.

C Yeah. It's it was kind of a fun experiment, And, you know, there are other mobile maker spaces out there, but I don't think there are any that that look like ours. And so it's been really fun to see how people engage with it. And, you know, it's just this thing that is very bold from the outside, and people are kind of just, like, what is this thing? And and it's really fun to see kids crawling around inside.

A I'm interested in about how you develop the curriculum for these workshops. I think a lot of architects like to believe they're amazing at stakeholder engagements, but I think there's a lot of education and learning that can happen there in our profession about how we actually be more empathetic and how we engage these communities. So how have you gotten about developing kind of that curriculum and is it, you know, you mentioned, curriculum like the 6 month program, like how much how much do you develop bespoke for partners and how much is it just, like, that you you continue to deliver because you've seen that it works so well?

C Yeah. I mean, the curriculum was definitely a big challenge because, you know, I have architecture experience and that is all. And so I don't have education experience. And so I knew what a basic curriculum should look like, and so that's where I started. And we just had to test a lot. And so we were we were doing lots and lots of workshops and using we have, you know, a few of the same workshops that we do a lot. And, one of them is called community makers, and that can kind of shape into different forms where, like, it could be a 10 week workshop and it could be, like, a 6 month workshop. So that's one that we tested a lot, and we just had to continue to tweak and and make it better.

C And we use surveys to to make sure that kids are understanding what, you know, what we were trying to do the entire time. We do a final presentation, and so that really shows that the the kids completely understood, what we were doing the whole time and really the purpose of what we were doing. But I think it is all about just doing it over and over and over again. And so in 2019, we had, I think, more than a 150 workshops. Wow. Oh, workshop sessions.

B That's amazing.

C And so yeah. So we were that year, we reached more than 650 kids. So there's a point where, you know, when the curriculum's working because just because you've done it so many times and you've really, you know, done the work to improve it as much as possible so that it's, you know, engaging the kids in in a way that's really meaningful. Let's take a break

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B I'm curious to know what you've learned about yourself by going through this process because I think what Evelyn and I have been kind of realizing as we've gone through our own entrepreneurial journey is that you you you learn things about yourself as you start to invest in something that you really care about, like a passion project like this that you're growing and you're changing as the business is changing. It's kinda like they're directly related. So I'm I'm curious what that's been for you.

C Yeah. That's a good question. And I honestly think I don't reflect as much as I should because I think both of you know we're always so busy, and there's always something to do. So, I mean, I would say, like, at the beginning of this, like, I didn't know that I was an entrepreneur. Like, that was never something that I thought about for myself, I think. And, I mean, basically, until I was starting this. You know, I never identified as as someone who wanted to be an entrepreneur when I was growing up, and I didn't ever really think about it, I don't think. So I guess I the biggest thing I've learned is that this is a good path for me, and I really like it.

C And, yeah, I mean, I think I've learned so much. All of all of this, like, I told you, how I don't have any education experience. I don't have any business experience. So I've had to learn a lot of things just step by step to, you know, learn how to run a business and, you know, make sure that we're growing our impact and, you know, that our, like, budgeting, that's something that I never had to really think about before. So, you know, there's so many things. Like, I I've learned how to be a business owner, I guess. And and that's, you know, that takes a lot. There are a lot of things that come with that.

B I'm curious what impact you've seen with the kids who've participated in your workshops. Like, what are their reactions? What do you see them kind of transform the way that they're thinking? What are those key areas?

A You serve a kind of a wide age group. So I don't know if you have, like, a specific memory of, like, what happened at various different ages. I imagine the transformation for, like, a high schooler is much different than an elementary school kid.

C Yeah. And I think it's interesting that you bring up the ages because it feels like the younger kids are maybe more used to people asking them to, like, imagine things and play, and so it's it's less crazy for us to come into a workshop with younger kids. They kind of just they're just able to to engage right away and and participate right away. But I think that by high school age, because of our current education system, high schoolers aren't asked to imagine. They're they're usually you know, I always bring up the book report where they're asked to memorize information and then say that like, say the information that they learned, and they're not necessarily being asked to translate information into something that would maybe be better for them. So, like, an example would be a lot of our workshops, we talk about sites that are in kids' neighborhoods that maybe are only a block down the street from the school. And we're asking them to reimagine the site so that it's better and healthier for the community. And so I think that the reaction with high schoolers is like, what the heck are we doing? Like, we don't ever do anything like this.

C We're coming in, like, during their normal class period. So it could be, like, we were in a history class. We were in a math class, and so we are taking over that period and doing something just completely different from what they would usually be doing. And so I would say that's the initial reaction. Like, they've just never done anything like this before, and, I think that the transformation throughout the course is usually with confidence, with speaking about ideas, which is another thing that I don't think teens are asked to do very often. We're not ever asking teenagers what they think about things, and so we're we know that young students believe that that we're giving them a voice, and we've heard that over and over again that that they felt like they had a voice in their community, after our workshop was over.

B I think that's a really good point because, you know, just being someone who is kinda always questioned things, I do think that it starts in maybe middle school and high school where, we're taught in a way that, like, is asked to say this there are right answers and there are wrong answers, and we we don't have a lot of pieces in the curriculum unless you pursue them, like art or music or I don't know. Any of those kind of more creative electives that allow for that space to just imagine and understand that, you know, they're the opportunity to create is so important, and it's a really important skill, like, that you need as an adult to to get through life.

C Yeah. I mean, I think this is all about skill building. And, you know, there are hard skills like math, like solving a problem that you find the right answer, but then there are so many ways that soft skills come in. So, like, being able to present, being able to take what's in your head and put it into the world in some way, which if maybe it's your voice, maybe you're drawing it. There's so many things that you need just to, like, hold a job, whatever that job is, that, you know, I think we should be paying closer attention to. And and I think that, you know, traditional school is important, obviously, but there's such a emphasis on testing and what's right and wrong. And like you said, there's there is a gray area, and I believe that young people should really be taught how to navigate the gray area and say, this part is working for this community, but this part is not, so this is what I'm proposing to make something better. And I think it's, yeah, it's just something that they're not asked to do very often.

A I think that also very quickly I mean, Janine and I have talked about how that translates into practice. Right? You know, a lot of firms don't necessarily believe that the people they hire fresh out of school have the ability to contribute and have ideas about the firm from from day 1. So I there's definitely a broader learning, I think, from from that attitude and just how we how we approach the next generation we're bringing into their profession as well as encouraging that thinking throughout the lifetime. I'm already sitting here as a mom of, like, a 3 and a 5 year old thinking, like, okay. How do I keep their imaginative play and, like, their voice active? So it's so it's giving me a pause there as well too. So thank you for that. You mentioned that there's hopes of of turning this full time. Have you found through its progression that you you need to pivot? Like, where where do you see the organization heading and and kind of what is what is next steps or next immediate and maybe even long term steps for Chicago Mobile Makers?

C Yeah. So I I definitely think there was some pivoting because of COVID, but I also think that we were in a really good place because we are not, like, super, super specific about everything that we do. So, like, I believe that our curriculum can can merge and form into so many different things that, like, we're always gonna be able to make things work. And so that's what we learned during COVID. We did some virtual programs, and it feels like now that it's getting a little bit warmer, people are so ready to to do in person stuff. So we're we're booking workshops, and it feels it feels like we're back in a way, which is really awesome. But something else that we figured out during COVID was that there are gonna be a lot of mental health issues with young people for a while because of this. And so we're you know, a lot of companies have been like, we're getting rid of our offices.

C There's no need for this anymore. But we are doing the opposite and we're kind of doubling down on the in person because young people need another place to go besides home and school, and they need safe spaces where they can create and be themselves. And so we're actually opening a space, which would be our 1st permanent space, and, you know, we're not gonna change any of the other stuff we're doing. Like, obviously, we are paused from going into schools, but, we plan to have this space and be doing consistent programming throughout the week with within the space. And then we'll also be doing programming with the truck, and we'll also be going into schools. And so we're really trying to engage students that both have already expressed an interest in design and students that have literally never heard of design. And they're you know, it's just about exploration and really exposing kids who may have never thought of that as a potential career.

B I feel like you're on the, verge of really growing as soon as I I can see the potential for your growth and that you've done a lot of work to put the foundation in place, so to say, around the the structure of the business. And so I think you're really primed to to to grow exponentially. Are you kind of just thinking that you'll stay focused in the Chicago area, or what is your goal in terms of growing?

C You're right that we it feels like we are right on the verge of becoming a lot bigger. And so this spring, like, the past few months, I've been doing a lot of business strategy, talking to a bunch of people about growth because, you know, again, the pandemic really helped me, I think, broaden my idea of what Chicago Mobile Makers can be. And we've been, you know, getting a lot of requests about expanding and so we there is there are plans to expand outside of Chicago eventually. And, this is really like a planning year and getting ready and getting, you know, capacity building and making sure that our foundation is strong before, you know, before we're doing any of this expansion and making sure that the integrity and and everything is just set before we're moving, you know, to other places.

B If people want to support you, what's the best way for them to either financially support you or, volunteer wise support you?

C We take donations on our website, which is chicagomobilemakers.org/donate, and that's always very helpful. Money is is what helps us get things done and and have a bigger impact in the city, and so that's always super important. But I think when we are opening this space, we'll have a lot of opportunities for in person volunteering, which it's it was always a little bit hard when we're mobile just because it's harder to to organize volunteers then, but it feels like this is gonna be a hub of activity. And so we're gonna be welcoming plenty of volunteers into the space.

A What if I am outside of Chicago and I want to engage? Is there any opportunity right now?

C I think always, like, sharing is such a huge thing. Like, that's so easy to do. Just share share what we do with a friend or with a family member. We really have to do in person and online, I think, going forward, and we need to figure out what kind of hybrid process we have just because we are all about accessibility and and making our workshops more accessible to people. So there is something to keeping things online as well. So I think that we're gonna have some opportunities, whether it's virtual programs where we would invite volunteers to help with those, or I talked to someone recently about doing some kind of brainstorming session that would be virtual to think about, our future and our future curriculum and what kinds of workshops we should be providing in this space. So that would be done virtually as well. So there there will definitely be, different types of opportunities coming up.

A From an outsider's perspective, I feel like you're growing this in a very smart way. I mean, I've definitely talked to organizations that try to grow too soon too fast. And you've talked a little bit about not being an educator, not being, you know, having a business background. And it it seems like you're learning a lot by doing, but have you found mentors along the way? And I think people are constantly looking for, like, how do I find a mentor? How do I create that relationship?

C Yeah. Well, I think, like, thinking back, I had a really hard time asking for help, and, you know, I was really just doing everything by myself at the beginning of this. And then, you know, now I'm to the point where I've had I've probably talked to 6 different people specifically about business strategy and they're helping me in different ways. And so I definitely have a network of people who are in the architecture space, who have started their own companies, and these people are all, you know, alternative people. So, like, they're they're not doing architecture in the traditional way. And so that's a lot easier to see something like Chicago Mobile Makers happening once you have that network of people who are also doing nontraditional architecture. So I'd say that's, like, the easiest thing to do is find people who are doing similar work in your area. But now, like, I'm I'm talking to, like, SCORE mentors is a great resource because they just have a huge network.

C It's free business mentoring, so I've gone to to them. You just kind of find your people along the way and, you know, ask asking for help is always good, and it's definitely something that I needed to learn how to do.

B It is a tough one. I mean, I I don't know how you feel about this, Evelyn, but sometimes I feel like I hit things in my business where it's like, I don't really wanna admit that I need help because it's, you know, it's just kinda hard. It feels very vulnerable to open up and be like, you know, this is where I'm struggling in my business. But, I've also found that when I do, you know, if I as long as I'm talking to the right person and a trusted person, it usually is very helpful. But it is very tough to actually you kinda almost have to, like, come to terms with it yourself. And then

A Yeah. I mean, I I think the other crux with architecture in general is that we we tend to think, like, we're the first to a big idea and we don't wanna share it because others might take it over, which is I feel like the opposite. I was taught in in my MBA program.

C Yeah. I mean, a lot of it is just about being persistent even if you are faced with challenges. Like, architecture is a very specific path. And at least when I was in school, I think this has gotten a little bit better. But when I was in school, there was no other way to do architecture. There was one way to do it and I had the full intentions to just do that. And then once I started doing it, I realized that it wasn't going to work for me. And so it was really challenging to figure out how to veer off this very specific path that, you know, everybody was saying I should take.

C Like, even my parents who don't really know anything about architecture were like, you must do these tests and you must do this. And and so it's it's really hard to kind of convince yourself and convince others that this is a good idea. And so you need a lot of persistence and, you know, if if you believe that your idea is valuable, then, you know, you really have to just continue forward, really, no matter what other people are saying about it. And I would say that find find your people. I think that was a huge thing. Like, I didn't really know that these alternative designers existed really until I graduated. And then once I did, I started, you know, having meetings with them, having coffee with them, and and now they're all like my friends at this point. And and so it's really easy to bounce ideas off of people who are like minded and, you know, already know that what you're doing is is a a good way forward, and so that's a huge thing.

C And I think I would say don't pressure yourself into feeling like you have to know what you're gonna do right after school because that's a luxury. And I think I was really privileged to figure it out so quickly, but not everybody will. And some people change careers when they're 40, and that's okay. And so don't put a bunch of pressure on yourself if you don't know exactly what you wanna do.

B As an emerging leader in our field who will no doubt have a great career that will be able to influence, You're already influencing a huge community. What is your hope for the profession? Where do you wanna see it go?

C Yeah. It's a big question. Well, I hope that our profession starts to be more caring and empathetic and that we start addressing the world's issues that we actually have the power and the skills and the traditional education to address. And, you know, I I don't have high hopes that the profession will change itself. I think that, you know, as climate change becomes worse for all of us and, social issues become become worse, I think the architecture field gonna not be able to ignore it anymore, and we're going to be forced to address address these problems. But, you know, I just I hope that we get it together and and start doing things that matter and, you know, making actual change in our built environment.

A Well, I know it you said that it took you a while to find your people now, but I hope that, you know, what we're trying to do on the podcast is is let everyone know that, you know, there are people that think like this that think differently. So I really appreciate your view and your perspective. And again, your look on entrepreneurialism from a 501c3 capacity. Is there any other closing thoughts that you wanted to add?

C I think it's finally a mainstream conversation that we're having. Like, before even a couple years ago, this was not a thing people were talking about. And I I kind of equate it to lead and how lead was around for such a long time before anybody started paying attention to sustainability. And so I'm hoping that social issues are are kind of the new LEED where it's starting to pick up steam, and and I hope that architecture firms and individual designers and art and architectural designers start making this part of their work. And it could be in a in a small way, could be volunteering on the side. That's that's how I started out. It was just volunteering for a bunch of cool other companies, but I do believe that it it is a designer's duty to address, you know, the the many problems that are in our built environment. And I would challenge each of you to try to do something small or big in your own city to try to address them.

A One of the reasons why I wanted to bring Maya on is specifically because of the work that she's doing in the social impact space, And she's not the 1st person on Practice Disrupted that we really had talk about social impact, But this is an area where I see more entrepreneurs entering in, and it was definitely ingrained in the curriculum, you know, when I got my MBA at the Presidio. I especially feel the younger generations are really interested in balancing a business that both is meaningful to them in their own passionate pursuits, but gives back to the world, to the community that they live within.

B I've met so many recent graduates and emerging professionals over the years who care deeply about connecting architecture and social impact as well as community outreach. Coming out of school, they really care about doing things that matter. So whether it's working on design problems that help fix what's going on with climate change or with communities that are underrepresented, they're looking for ways to make sure that their work is actually making a difference in the world.

A And I think the interesting thing about what Maya was doing, and she mentioned it several times, is, you know, she's not doing this to necessarily train the next generation of architects, but, she is taking all of the great aspects that the design education brings, you know, to help build confidence, help create greater help help actually create greater community advocates within the community and maybe even, you know, foster the next generation of clients for architects that actually value design if, you know, if they don't become architects.

B There was this moment at the end of the interview where Maya was talking about taking steps towards this direction of her career, and you and I were both very inspired by what she had to say. She wasn't gonna wait for someone to create this opportunity for her. She was gonna just go build it herself, and I really admire that. And I think that it's impressive that at such a young age, she's been able to come up with a business idea and then implement it and really get it off the ground. I know I've seen a lot of young designers coming out of school wanting to do something similar, and what I like about what Maya's doing is that she's actually brought it to life. It's not just an idea. There is an actual footprint of her nonprofit that's making an impact in her community.

A I really am excited about the entrepreneurial spirit that I saw in Maya. I I encourage and I hope that that type of same spirit is is a part of the next generation that is coming out there. I think one of the areas where the profession has consistently struggled, especially as I'm in social forums with a lot of older generation architects, is about everything that the profession has given away. And for Maya to see an opportunity and really embrace that opportunity was extra special for me. And I think if architects did that more often, that is one of the best ways that we can continue to remain relevant.

B To anyone listening to this podcast, I hope you'll join me in rallying around Maya and the work that she's doing. As a young entrepreneur, I know that she is working really hard to build this business, and she deserves our support and encouragement. And that can look like going to her social media page, checking out some of her photos, liking what she's doing on social media, or you could even share her website with one of your friends. You could also go to her website and make a donation. Choosing to be an entrepreneur and choosing to make a difference in the world is a big task and Maya needs our support. And I would further hope that just in general, this community of listeners and contributors and collaborators behind Practice Disrupted is growing into a network of people who support each other in general. We are a group of people who want to make a difference in the world. We wanna disrupt and design businesses and make an impact and create great architecture firms.

B And while we can go it alone, we go further when we go together.

A Thank you for listening, and tune in next week. Thank you again to our podcast partner, Monograph. Learn how Monograph can help you take control of your firm's financial health. Follow the link in our show notes or visit practice of architecture.com backslash monograph so that Monograph knows that you heard about them from us. To reserve a seat at their first ever interactive virtual conference, visit sectioncut.com

B today. Thank you to Twinmotion for their support of this podcast episode. Visit twinmotion.link/ disrupted and try Twinmotion for free.

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