/slantis, Enabling Technology in Practice

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

A Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors.

B I was recently introduced to Slantus because Andy reached out to me on LinkedIn prior to last year's conference because she was searching for like minded individuals in the profession. LinkedIn is a good place to meet people, apparently. Anyways, there was an immediate connection, and we've been actively looking on how we can partner on a number of different fronts, but I really felt it was important to tell their story about ARC Sourcing and its evolution to Slantus and what it means for these 2 wonderful co owners going forward.

A What I have learned about them so far is that they are high energy entrepreneurs, and so I know that this conversation is gonna be an exciting 1. And I'm looking forward to hearing more about ArcSourcing and all of their entrepreneurial ideas that they are investing in.

B So I'm going to leave a to a guest to really tell you about ArcSourcing and its evolution to Slantus. But what I really see them doing is being an extension of architecture firms or actually a team within a firm that will ultimately help make architecture firms more flexible and adaptable going forward and enable firm owners to really focus on what matters most when it comes to building business and client delivery. Andy, you're nodding your head. So why don't you start off and tell us a little bit more about you and yourself? And then Mercedes, please follow-up.

C Hi. Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for the invite. Hi, Evelyn. Hi, Janine. So, you kind of describe it perfectly, But, yeah, my name is Sandy. Robert, I'm an architect, trained architect, and, cofounded Slantys, like, 7 years ago with Mare, which is right here joining us. Right now, I'm I'm more into the sales marketing side of the business.

C And Mer can tell a bit more about what she's doing. We've grown into a team of about, like, 50 people right now with 3 offices. We are if you're hearing like a funny, interesting accent, it's because I'm a native Spanish speaker. I was born in Uruguay, South America. If you don't know where that is, you can go and search it right now. That is very, very south, like 8, 9 year 9 hour flight from, Southern, United States. Bit about myself. I studied architecture.

C I lived in Germany for a while. I'm a mom of 2 and super fun advocate, entrepreneur. I love the entrepreneurial world and, yeah, that's basically it. So I'll leave Mara now to introduce herself.

D Thanks. Hi, everyone. Thanks, Evelyn. Thanks, Janine. It's amazing to be here. So I'm Mercedes. People call call me Mer. I'm Uruguayan too.

D I've lived, like, a bunch of time in France, so I'd like to say I'm half Uruguayan, half French. I also am a licensed architect, but studied then digital fabrication. So I I did venture on technology quite, fast, in my career and really fell in love with it. At Slantys, I'm more on the innovation and operation side of things. Really looking forward to to talk about what's going on in our industry and how we like to push it forward quite fast, actually.

B I mean, Andy, you and I talked about, kind of the evolution of technology in in Uruguay, and I don't think most people are aware of what's going on there. So why don't you just give a background of why what you're doing in Uruguay is not entirely unique or out of, you know, out of the realm of what else is going on.

C So here in Uruguay, what's going on is that we are kind of like the Latin American Silicon Valley. Our country, we're a very teeny tiny small country, like 3, 000, 000 people. But our country has developed very aggressive policies in terms of promoting technology and exporting technological services. So our company is in an environment which is highly technological. Even the place where our offices are located, it's surrounded by tech companies. So we are very, very in contact to how these tech these, companies operate, how they are treating their people, thinking of the business in general. So we were discussing this, and we felt very close with, Evelyn because, of course, she's working at Slack. So, we are very, very aware of how tech companies are, seeing business in general, let alone, their people policies.

C So this is kind of the situation right now. We are like 5 floors away from 2 unicorn companies. And we know the owners here because your wife is very small. So that's, like, a huge advantage of being able to, like, have 1 degree of separation basically with everybody here. And it's very, very nutritive, I would say, to be able to to be exposed to this to these leaders with a very different perspective to what

D The like, we're the number 1 software exporter in the world. And then the technological story of Uruguay start a while ago, even if we have a couple of unicorns and a couple more on the pipeline. So those companies and he was mentioning they're from Uruguayan founders, which is crazy given the size of our country. There are many initiatives, and some of those, did touch the AC industry. Like, for example, CASE, the company that was afterwards acquired by WeWork, like, they had an office here. And many people from all over the globe, which were blazing the trail of technology and architecture, came down here in 2, 000 and, I don't know, 11 or something like that or 10. We're a very, cutting edge in terms of technology country and very open minded country.

B And just for some of our listeners who might not understand what a unicorn company is, would either of you mind explaining?

C Sure. So a unicorn company in entrepreneurial world means a company that it's, valued and worth more than $1, 000, 000, 000. So it would be a company that its net worth is $1, 000, 000, 000.

B Okay. So now that we have that background covered, why don't you tell us a little bit more about Slanthus and how it started, as archsourcing and and the beginning of your story, or even how you 2 met and decided to launch this thing?

D So we we were friends before outsourcing, now Slantus. We were friends and we both, studied architecture in different school. And then Andy went to live and study abroad to Germany, and I was in France at that time. Then we came back, evolved towards our architectural career, the typical 1. And then once we got together in a coffee shop, and decided we wanted to conquer the world, and started by by working, from Uruguay to the US, and specifically California.

C We basically pull every string that we've got to be able to to accomplish that because we were living in Europe. So we didn't know a lot of people in the States.

D We were super fast getting our first client. I think it took 24 hours. And then needless to say, we were architects in a 3, 000, 000 people country. So imagine if architecture is hard for somebody that has a lot of opportunities or lives outside Uruguay, triple that and picture yourself being an architect in a 3, 000, 000 people country with the biggest architecture company being, I don't know, 50 people?

C Yeah. 60

D people. 60 at at most.

A And, obviously, you guys have come a long way from that early point. You know, I really respect the fact that you guys are a woman owned business. That for me is exciting. But I I wanna talk about what you grew into and also how do you see yourselves disrupting the AEC industry? Like, how did you get to that point and what what kind of disruption did you start to embrace in terms of your business plan evolving?

D I I feel we've come just to the first step in your journey. So I know it's been a while since we launched our sourcing in now Slantus, but I really feel this is a very small first step in which we are creating a new world, a new work within the AEC industry, a world, where things are done differently. So there's a lot that needs to be changed, not only how we design buildings and how we build buildings, but how companies are and how, how we organize for doing great buildings. So just look around. The city could be much prettier, and we can do so much more. And technology can help us do so much more. And architects need to, like, claim back the profession in many, many ways. So our disruption starts by creating a company, creating a universe, so the universe of this land, in which we really reshape how architecture is created and crafted, and really just, like, are not bounded by old rules, like, rules that were useful and did a lot of things in the past, but are not aligned and not up to speed with technology today.

D So I like to start by that because it's not just technology itself. It's just like taking back the profession and create an environment with where architects can drive and don't need to step aside from architecture because there's no room for them to grow.

C And I I would like to add, I was telling Evelyn when we met in our in the conference that I think we're kind of like in a very interesting spot to doing what we are thinking about, like, really injecting the quote of technology into our profession. And this is because 3 things. As we were discussing, the first 1 is because we are surrounded by technology. What we are seeing is most of of our clients are, like, gathering or just, like, connecting with people in the same AC industry, but not looking out to other industries. I mean, I know there are a lot that are doing that, but there are fewer. And we are just the 3rd or second. I think we're now the 2nd biggest architecture, like, hiring architects in our country. So, we don't have a lot to people to look out for in our country.

C So we need to go out and look for other companies as an example and as a reference so that for a second. The nature of our service allow us to be very into what our clients are really doing and how we can improve it and streamline it because we are developing mainly right now. I I can explain further later, but what we're doing is CDs and CDs for our clients. So as we are in that exact spot, we are seeing the same very thing done very differently and very not effectively. And the only way to do that in a very effective manner is through technology. So I think that is a huge leverage that we have versus, like, most of architecture companies that are just going through the wrong process. But we are seeing the same process repeated in very different ways. So we're trying to harvest that and try to see what we can do and how to improve it.

C And again, what Mere was saying, like trying to claim back instead of doing drawings, try to really apply what is worth of architects, which is the design thinking mind, the like creative thinking, problem solving side of the profession rather than just, like, drafting or just modeling or using the tool into our advantage.

A So you're working with a variety of different firms. And because you're helping them with DD and CD, you're seeing the process repeated across different firms, which is allowing you to see kind of the commonality of where the process breaks down in the process that we've been repeating and that we've inherited.

D Exactly. People so in short, people are doing the same thing over and over again, and we want to make room for, better design and for more challenging types of work and problem solving.

A So do you think that you'll be able to propose something that is a new way to do it that, like, can take people in a different direction?

C So we are right now in that path. We've been getting together with a lot of mentors here and also in the states, trying to rethink. Because if you think it architecture has been done exactly the same way since the pyramids in Egypt, like we put a 2 d, Right now the shift has been into a 3 d environment, but we are extracting PDFs from that 3 d environment. So 2 d geometries. So how are we actually using technology to not do the same process? Like, just use it as a tool to be able to deliver better architecture. I mean, it's a problem that every architect has exactly the DDs and CDs face and how you effectively deliver it in a way where it has an impact on the built environment. So we've been getting together with a lot of mentors here. There are a lot of technology people too, like technology leaders of very big companies, bringing to them the problem because this is the funny thing.

C This problem is of architecture, but this problem has been seen in other industries already. And they were already disrupted in other industries. It's just that architecture hasn't really received already like the Uber or the, like, the huge disruption. So who is going to take that place and who's going to actually change it? We were seeing, of course, WeWork. We were seeing Cattera. We were seeing a lot of these companies. But now what is the next big disruption? How are we thinking about architecture very differently? How are we integrating technology to that combo? Where I was telling Evelyn that in AIA conference, I was seeing a lot the conversation about equity, and now we can dive also in the women owned business. And I'm a huge, huge advocate about that and sustainability for sure.

C Like, I'm a vegan. I'm 100% in about sustainability. But we're going to get that road faster if we are leveraging technology, and I think that is what is missing in the equation.

B So 1 of the other things that you talked to me, which is really interesting, because I feel like when people become clients of yours, you're kind of helping them realize everything within BIM and Revit that they that the tool is actually capable of, but they, like, have not You I feel like, you know, we use such a small portion of what the tool is actually capable of. And I feel like you guys spend a lot of time educating your clients on kind of the greater capabilities of the software that they pay so much for. But what was interesting to me, Andy, is you are providing services that clients typically bill out at a billable rate. You're asking them, saying this is our flat fee to deliver. So how have those conversations been going?

C We've been having huge discussions with our board advisor that you met, Evelyn, which is called Paul. He was not in favor of us sharing a lot of tips and tricks, for example, in social media. Because he said that that was, like, our finding and a lot of time and effort put into that. And we really again, coming from the tech world, we really believe, like, open source is helping everybody achieve better results. And I think that is like a huge disruption that we need to make in our industry. Like, we need to be as open as we can because if we like, if all the industry evolves, then each individual in the industry evolves. I think that is certainly 1 of the huge aspects of it.

D This was a very, very, hard, fight, and we're restless. So we we don't count hours. That has a lot of challenges, because our clients, they do. They do, and and we we've managed to stay away from that, because we believe it would go the other direction, of optimization and making making things faster, and it would penalize, things that get done faster rather than, things that take a lot of time. So it's it's a fine, negotiation, because everything we do, we do around a project. So that allows our clients to bill our fee to their projects, but what they get goes way beyond the project because it can be reused. And because, like, we like to say, our clients go from flabby to fit. Even if there's a project and we quote around a project or a specific development, what they get goes beyond that.

D And once they realize that, they're happy to jump into a PIM consultancy or more strategic technology consultancy because they have already seen the value. What Andy was mentioning regarding, like, going over the same problem over again, like, that's something our industry has not got rid of. And we're still, like, try trying to crack the code for, I don't know, the the the stadium problem. And and thousands of stadiums have been designed, and thousands of multifamily have been designed and everything. And we're still starting our projects from a blank canvas. We're not. Like, a lot a lot of people within the industry is in spending 1, 000 of hours building a detailed library and stuff and think like, people are doing things over and over again. That's really something we're we're changing.

D Like, not only with our clients, but with the industry.

A Okay. So Evelyn always talks about the detail library. Evelyn

C We all do.

A The detail library is at Slantus. I found it.

D Stay stay stay tuned.

B The single source of truth.

D Stay tuned. Yeah. But, like, no, it cracks me up. Like, how many I don't know. How many typical ADA details are they in the world? How many do we need? There there's there's a lot of work to be done in in terms of sharing information. Like, the the software industries is so much more advanced than us. I crafted a meme on this. Like, everybody's, sharing their code openly, and architects are just, like, hiding their ADA typical standard detail.

D So it is a little bit funny, but it is it is causing a lot of harm in our industry, and we're in to change that for sure.

A Yeah. Well, I I mean, I think to your point, Mercedes, that when we make decisions like that and we spend time redesigning things that don't need to be we don't need to be allocating time for, it's a waste. It's a drain. It it pushes on people resources. It pushes on our financial resources, and it takes time away from the things that we should be doing that are more important. So I guess, you know, for those who are still reconciling this idea, I would challenge you to think about the opportunity by moving past, like, where interns are going to reresearch something that is a standard in the industry because they don't know it, but then you have to put it into your technology. And then so you're spending time designing something that's, like, not a high value use of people's time. It might be a learning opportunity for that individual, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's, a productive use of your time on the project or for your client.

A So it's a hard thing to reconcile, but I think that there's a lot of, I would say, consequences that were unintentional because of technology and because of our adoption of it to put it to shift the entire way that we work and to start moving, our projects into a technological space. Like, it fundamentally shifted everything we were doing, and the adoption has been, I would say, messy.

D To say the least. No. But To

A say the least.

D No. I'm like, we're super positive. We're super positive about, the adoption and technology kind of reigning over the AEC industry. It's a very exciting exciting time to be where we are. You know, time flies and there's a new generations that are coming in more technologically oriented or more tech savvy, and we gotta be ready. Right? Because, like, the idea of this is that people that can just, like, reach their biggest potential and can use their expertise, the best possible way. And the way we're doing things right now does not allow people to apply what they know.

C I no. And I think to add what you were saying, Janine, I think we had this discussion over and over at Slantus, and I think I exchanged it with Evelyn too. The problem that we are seeing is the mindset. If we are if you are thinking in our in our rather than value creation, then you have a problem because you're putting into your business, and don't get me wrong, we're business owners, you're putting into your overheads the detail library. Where if you were thinking about value creation and how you can use that to leverage how you're doing your projects faster, projects more efficient, then that's a whole different paradigm on how you're how you're seeing the same thing from a very different perspective. So we are having that conversation with our clients because our clients are like, I'm putting your my money to develop my detail library, and this is overhead for me. And, hey, I get you, but this is going to bring you a very different value to your projects than your, like, overhead label on your on your business p and l. So this is very real and I think, it's a mindset that, we need to shift.

C And I know what I'm saying is like crazy for most architects because we've been living in this paradigm forever, billing hours. But we are the ones that are not doing a good for our own industry. I know, Evelyn, you've been advocating for distance forever, but the our problem is just, like, working in reverse to us because it should is.

A So building off that idea, I wanna put 2 common arguments that I hear out on this topic and just continue to respond to them. I'm sure you've heard them a lot yourself. But the first 1 is, but, Andy, what about, like, customization? Everything we do is tailored for every project that we design. So, yeah, like, it's it's our secret, you know, design.

B Especially if we're high end residential. Right?

A Yeah. We really wanna customize it. So that's that's the first 1 I want you to help us understand, the counterargument. And then the second 1 is kinda, like, around what I was saying earlier about bridging that gap between what younger staff are learning and trying to figure out as they work on projects and what the project actually needs to be delivered on the deadline?

C So I would take on, Mary, if you want the first 1, which is the customization. Mary, I'm sure she has a lot to say about this. What I'm thinking about the customization is, 1 step further, maybe like a macro view. 1st, you need to and I I don't know if most of the first that we're working for have gone through this strategic planning thinking because we're trained as architects and technical people. So first, you need to position yourself. You want to sell very high end customized houses where I think that can be somehow, streamlined too and not take out the tailor made part or the design or very like we are both art and architecture lovers and we get it. But like first as a business, you need to think about I want to be in this niche. I don't think or I don't know if most of architects have positioned themselves into thinking I wanna be into this place or just, like, follow what work is coming in or, like, I'm in the housing multifamily type of projects.

C But, like, do I really wanna do customized, homes? If the answer is yes, this is your path. If the answer is no, this is your path.

D Everybody's answer is yes.

C I don't know. No. I think that is I don't think they But I don't know.

D Like, here's what I I see. Like, everybody feels they have a secret sauce. And and and they do. And let's let's put it that way. They do. But, the problem right now is that everybody is cooking their secret sauce with 4 ingredients. Right? And we're not getting exotic taste. Like, it takes a little bit different, but it tastes, fairly the same.

D So what we're trying to do is just, like, create a base. We need those 4 ingredients for whatever reason we do. So we can create a base. It won't be that different from your secret sauce. It won't be your secret sauce, but it will give you time to play around with more ingredients and allow us to have a more, I don't know, enriched food experience. So, so I guess so I guess what I'm trying to say is customization can be is great, but it's some specific areas. It looks like addictive and really leads to nowhere. And let me put an example for that.

D Like, are we going to have a keynote that's rounded or box it or appeal? I don't know. Let's review that on our next meeting. There's a difference between customization from scratch and customization from, what you need. And and I think, like, that's where we need to be putting our efforts on. We're doing this same sauce over and over again and not trying any different ingredient. And that doesn't mean that you're not being creative. That doesn't mean you're not crafting things from scratch and having an intellectual property on that. It just means you're not doing the same thing over and over again.

D So, like, really doing the same thing over and over and starting from a black canvas, and not reusing your details. It's not being creative and having a secret sauce. It's quite the opposite.

B I also find that customization happens at this, like, really small scale. Right? Like, if you have a door, you still need a door frame. But I've never seen somebody customize, for instance, in 1 door. Me me they're terrified by these doors, or it's gonna be the most amazing door ever. Customize the frame, the door itself, the hinge, and, you know, the handle. Usually, it's it's, like, 1 thing, the size of the door with this custom pull on it. Right? But your the frame the detail for the frame doesn't change.

D No. And then you're also playing around the pool of options. So you can go down the super customized road. We've seen that, like, very, very, very, few, like, in high end houses in Napa Valley, let's put it that way, which is not our main market. But, like, when you're customizing, you're certainly going to buy that door from a manufacturer and somewhere. And tools can be quite tricky there because, like, let's say a gypsum board. You can have a gypsum board from wherever thickness you want, and that's not true. Because in the end, you have 2 or 3 possibilities in terms of thickness.

D Tools sometimes play tricks on us somehow because they give you possibilities where which we are not going to choose afterwards, whether it's for budget reason or for feasibility reasons. Everybody wants a 100% customized, but that's not that's not the choice you make every time when there's budget and feasibility and timeline.

B Janine, I don't think we've even touched on your second.

A I know. Gosh. No. But that's such a great response because I think Mercedes, what you're saying is, like, it's, like, scalable. The the customization is, like, understanding what those tier metaphor for ingredients are and then understanding what the real design potential is. Is it about the volume? Is it about the skin? Is it about the shape of the building? Is it about the customization of a beautiful staircase that's gonna be your, like, star of your photo when you do final photography? Like, what is it? And then really thinking about the things that don't need your time, like the door jam or the like, if you know that you love a certain type of window and you're repeating use of that across your projects. Like, those are the opportunities.

B I'm just trying to think of how many, like, thresholds I redrew for no occurrence.

A I remember, like, when I had to get into and this this probably starts to play into the second question, which is about the learning curve, because I think a lot of firms are grappling with when you hire someone new coming out of school, they're simultaneously learning how to be an architect in a professional setting and learning how to use the technology, and that yields a lot of problems in terms of trying to get stuff done on time because our industry has designed an educational process that requires and is dependent on people learning in a project setting. And yet our deadlines are in contrast in a very significant way against that where there's not a lot of time built into accommodating that. So, like, I remember when I was learning how to work on projects, like, learning wall types and learning how to put those wall types together in Revit, like and there's, like, lost time spent learning that you have to account for in the process that also makes projects highly inefficient. So I guess I'm wondering, like, how do you grapple with that? What's the bridge and how do you respond to meet the needs of both learning and productivity, which is a really hard question.

C We discussed briefly this with Evelyn. I mean, not entirely, but we discussed about, for example, the onboarding process in tech companies and how, again, we have this amazing training about designing that we can use it to other areas, not only to architecture. So we as a company, like architects have the like, we design a very thorough onboarding process, which comes, of course, from the technology world. So are we as architects thinking about how we are onboarding our people and how we are training our people and how we are and I don't think we are again because, we're just like, oh, we are we have our hands full, and we need somebody right now, like, coming right into the project because we have a deadline. And that person is, like, drowned and swamped in, like, so

A Andy, preach. Like, this is, like, so the problem. This is like, you're speaking my language. Like, Annie, I don't have time to onboard them. I'm late on my deadline. I just need to get it out the door. I just need them when we need to hire them as fast as we can. I need them on day 1 working in this.

A Oh, and what? They said they know how to use Revit on their resume. They don't know how to use Revit?

D And then it's funny. Everybody like, okay. When do you need to start? Tomorrow? And everybody needs to start tomorrow. And then when that started to happen to us, we just took out the 4 ingredients of the secret sauce. And, like, it's funny when we are collaborating with a firm, and let's say they have a project and a team of, I don't know, 4 people is working on that project, and they just want a couple of more people to jump in. Their first question would be, would you take care of the onboarding? Because nobody wants to do that and it's and it's just because nobody just had the time or just put aside the time to understand what was needed and what was what is the most effective way to go over, like, the bullet points or the onboarding process for different people which have different kinds of experiences and background. And what are the highlights of Afirm standards or where because we all do architecture. Yeah.

D For sure. We all know what a construction document set is. Yes. But everybody has its own ways, which are not 100% customized. Like, I people hand in floor plans and elevations and use keynotes and all that stuff. So there's a common knowledge.

C And again, the problem here is the mindset. Why are you going to invest in designing an onboarding process, which is an overhead for your people and you are not able to build it accordingly. Well, let me tell you, if you're designing and putting a time, which you consider overhead, that is going to definitely, like, speed up your process of, doing projects. Because the people that is entering your firm are going to be much more trained or at least, like, with a baseline to be able to move around, which is what we are constantly hearing. So I think again the problem is like 1 step above, which is mindset. Like if we are thinking in hours, then you're seeing everything that it's not project, build or like you're billing by project as overhead. We're not you are not seeing the real value creation, and the impact that has on the rest of the firm. So moving away from that mindset that we're charging by the hour, seeing things by its real value and its real impact, it's a game changer.

C And it's a game changer for our industry too. And that has been I mean, we're not talking about something like really disruptive. This has been already proven by the tech industry over and over again. So it's not, oh, we're talking about something new. This has already been improving in other industries. It's just we're not seeing it in ours.

D The onboarding, starts, the day you have the interview for sure, but then it keeps going onwards. So, like, everything that's, like, talent development and harvesting lessons learned from projects and, understanding, like, what things we've discovered during a development can shift other projects and we can harvest and then reuse. That's like that's it another whole part of it. Will you be billing hours there? I don't know. Will it change will it change and speed up the process and definitely find room for improvement for sure? So, like, when we do that, everybody's like, oh, look what they did, and and it didn't take that much time. We just paused, get out of the project rat race and thought, and just look for problems and solution.

B Yeah. The biggest thing, I mean, I've always had with hourly rates, and we talk about this a lot on the podcast, is that it it disincentivizes any of these process improvements, essentially that you're talking about. So talk to me about the people that you guys hire for slantus. I mean, you talked about this onboarding process, but, like, who are you hiring and talk to me realistically about, are they, you know, how they might feel and how even you guys might feel about helping other people deliver upon their designs rather than crafting your own.

C That is a frequent asked question that we have. And even for ourselves, What you think is fun? If you want to check it out, I recently wrote an article about how building a business and building buildings is very similar at some point. And I think that really applies to life itself. So that is something that we have as a frequent ask question for sure. To the people that we hire and going directly to what you were asking, we are looking for very curious, very people that really think outside the box, not just architects. And I think also our profession is really focused on the technical aspect, which is perfectly fine because that's how you actually put together a building, definitely. But we are thinking and looking very aggressively for people that are looking to improve our profession in a very different way. Sometimes it's from technology.

C Sometimes it's from a very technical aspect. Sometimes we're just really eager to improve and seeing something that is not working and really putting their hands on onto that. Regarding design, again, if you're thinking and you're looking into this perspective of something that you can improve, there's always design on it. So I don't think people in our in our team is getting bored or even thinking that they let down something or gave up something or switched something or switched career path because they are allowed to design in their own realm. Even if it's a process, even if it's a a team, you're you always have the possibility to design something. So we're looking for people that are looking into design but not necessarily into the architectural. I don't know if that make sense.

D Or in the design technology side, for example. And then as for design itself, there there's a high range and spectrum of schematic design. Like, not every design comes settled, when we jump in.

C Yeah. That also is true.

A Yeah. And I guess that taps into some of the questions that we had kinda wanted to ask you about. What drew you to launching this business model and, like, particularly, what keeps you excited about BIM as a medium that you're using all the time with your clients?

D I think I'm not excited about BIM itself, but by the fact that it was the the first technology or the only technology that, has awoken the AEC industry, to do something about it. So it's not like, we've reached to a point in which technology started to enable us to think differently. So they this has been on for a while, but for some reason, this was the technology that brought everybody into the technology boat and everybody's convinced that they need to do a data driven model or BIM or whatever, and they can make the most of it. I see I see BIM as, yeah, as the excuse for everybody to just open the door and open their minds towards a different way of doing things, rather than the specifics of the methodology itself. And then I really feel the door is open. And, again, there's a new generation coming in, with a lot of energy and and, like, technology intonation. So I think that that's what gets me excited the most.

A What do you think that the profession needs to understand about the advancement of BIM in our industry?

D That there's room for everybody, that there's room for everybody. I'm gonna be very conceptual, but, like, people are afraid of, spending a lot of money and, in BIM or in technology or in consultancy or whatever and, not getting there or not getting the value back. So there's room for owners. So some people are which are more advanced in their careers are afraid of just, like, not being able to keep up with the technology and just, like, not being able to use or their their, I don't know, co code knowledge or just, like, very development. There's room for them too. Some younger people are and and everybody has their own, doubts. You know? Like, I think this is not great because of this and that. And I really think, like, I really think technology makes room for everybody, and our industry has failed to see that, because of, I don't know, intellectual property or, it's my design or it's my drafting detail or it's my whatever.

D And and we're failing to see that, and owners are failing to see that. Architects are failing to see that. And I I really think I really think it's the next evolution, none of the industry, not fame itself, just technology. The the evolution, not only for the industry, but that involves the best evolution for everyone. And, you really gotta take it or it's going to be taking you. So yeah. Like, the question is, like, are you open to evolve to your best self through technology or through the the improvement of the industry or not, because it would be better if you're open to it and ready.

B Andy, did you have a response at all?

C No. I was just, just thinking as Mary was speaking because I recently had a conversation with a client where they would tell me that I was talking about, like, innovation and a lot about what Mara was discussing about again, like this mindset of technology, which of course involves, like, sharing a lot of knowledge and, really using technology as a tool to leverage our potential as architects. And, I was having this conversation with this client and and they were like, oh my god. This just hit me in the head. We're using Revit as a as like Microsoft Paint. And I was like and and and they were laughing. And it's like, I think and just coming to what Jenny was saying at the very beginning, we are still in the discovery phase of really understanding the power of the technology that we have in front and being really able to leverage it. And that, like, it's not about training about the tool.

C It's just changing our our perspective of how we're using the tool. Isn't or what we are asking of the tool rather than the tool itself. So I think we're spending a lot of money and even a lot of our clients are spending a lot of money or we need to have these licenses in place. We need to be using this. We need to and obsess about the tool itself. And it's just what are you going to ask of the tool? What do you want to improve? What do you want to streamline? How are you doing things for the better? So all these questions need to come before we're actually focusing on the tool itself. And that is also a frequent asked question that we have a lot. Like how are you using the best of BIM? And it's about what do you want to do with BIM? What are you thinking about doing? And what do you want to improve? What's your process right now? And where you wanna be in the next 6 months? I think there's a lot of confusion about that too.

C Like, trying to use the tool for something that you're not even sure what you want to accomplish. But we need to be on the BIM boat, right, as Mara was saying. Yeah. So let's be use it.

A But we don't know what to do with

D it. Or

A Exactly. Don't even know its full potential. And, yeah, I think you're spot on. And, I mean, it was it was a radical shift to ask the entire industry to adopt it, and firms should be thinking about how projects need to be managed differently and what questions they can ask about, how to use the tool to promote efficiency and better use across the team and to create better outcomes.

C And I went to a roundtable on AIA national conference talking about innovation in our industry. And it was pretty interesting to me because, a conversation came up talking about how architects are not going to draw or even model anymore in the next 20 years. And I was just I was telling mayor, like, I put myself in, like, these pictures that we were seeing from architecture studios in 19 twenties, where you saw this huge huge kind of warehouses of people drawing 1 next to the other, where we shifted into the same this exact same model into the computers, but that is going to end at some point. Because we're experiencing what they experienced going from hand into the computer. Now, like, what's the next step? Where are we transitioning? Or what are we transitioning into? So the role of the architect is definitely going to change. And again, going to what Mary was saying, are we ready to adapt to that? Are we going to fight it or are we going to, go with the flow and adapt to that? And again, like a step further, are we going to be part of it? Are we going to contribute into that change?

B So my question for you then is you've obviously made this change and and may I talk about the evolution of slantus and why Slantus and what what that begins to mean. Have you guys begun defining, like, what those next services are and the type of firms that you typically end up working with?

D We're working on it. So currently, it's it's good to say, like, we've rebranded. Our name has changed. Andy and I remain the only, owners of, of Lantus, half and half. So we were not acquired. We did not change. We're keep working with the clients who were working. We keep making technology happen for architecture firms.

D But we we're so we've come to a point in which, the the the creation of Slantus, is having a more extended impact, not only in the architect's profession, but in our clients too. So we're definitely designing what's next for us and how we're going to keep generate, sorry, a bigger impact, in the industry and how things are being built and what what tools will allow you to will allow us to take the next step, and redefine the the role of the architects. I was I was testing Midjourney, generator of AI of images with AI from a text prompt. And it really made me think. So I just type, like, I don't know how's, yeah, limestone, 2 story, etcetera, etcetera, and then you will get an image. And took me a while just to get the image I wanted or I was trying to look for. And what I what I thought there was you really need to learn a new language in order to communicate to the algorithm. So when you apply for a job in architecture, like, there's, co knowledge in architecture and level of expertise in certain areas or programs, but this is a new skill set you need.

D So you really need to try to speak machine or speak algorithm or be able to communicate or to be able to give a certain or certain amount of order instruction. It is a little bit like programming and visual programming, but it really opens up a new skill set and a new dimension. And it's certainly for architects, because you will need to talk about materials and about, aesthetics and about stories and about architectural components.

C So we are definitely into that exploration with AI. We've also had a very interesting conversation in our office about, for example, the metaverse because, again, we feel this is something like the BIM thing, like the BIM boat. Everybody needs to be on the metaverse. What are we doing to be on the metaverse? And, kind of trying to dig a bit like, dive a bit deeper into, what does it mean right now to be building on a digital environment and what tools like BIM are into that and how we are that translating into the build real environment, or are we actually translating that or is going to be a thing to just keep it digitally, and how we're positioning because, like, building d t's and c t's or how we're doing that is exactly the midpoint between what's happening in the digital world and, how it translates into the built real environment. So we've been having this back and forth on we don't know exactly if it's the metaverse, but, like, how this is, talk like, these parts are talking to each other. There are a lot of things going on, for example, also into, 3 d printing, buildings and, being for fabrication and trying to, fill in the gap between what is happening digitally and, the gap between the building world and how it's actually been built. And mayor coming from digital fabrication background, comes in handy, certainly. And, so, yeah, we're kind of trying to explore right now.

C It's like a lab or experiment, how technology is going to impact our our environment, in the build world is certainly not a clear, exploration yet, but like we're definitely thinking correctly for what we are hearing from our mentors, how the architect role is going to shift as what we were describing. So we still don't have an answer, but certainly a lot of questions, which at some point I think they're going to take us to some answer. If somebody wants to contribute to the conversation, we are super open to doing that too.

D No. We're we're still committed to to to keep pushing the shift, and, like, not only not only on the impact side and on on just, like, tilting the balance toward toward the shift, but on, leveraging the timing and the adoption. Like, knowing the industry for 7 years and understanding, like, its synergies and its dynamics, I think give us a a very true perspective on on what's the adoption like and what, because in the end, like, we really want the industry to to thrive. It's not about just, like, crafting the best AI platform, but we really want the industry to to embrace it and and the the profession to be able to evolve, along with technology.

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