Empowering Student Voices, Ideas, & Actions

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

A Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors. This week, I'm thrilled to welcome the 2022, 2023 officers of the American Institute of Architecture Students to join us on the show. Each year, students at architecture schools around the world build community and share knowledge across physical studio boundaries and time zones. They are leaders, advocates, designers, activists, and they are connected through the AIAS.

B Now you can find AIAS chapters in many academic programs focused on architecture. Many of our friends in our network have been with us in our AIAS alumni who have made the transition into AIA leadership positions, as well as career leadership positions serving on nonprofits in leadership positions on architecture firms and back in the university at programs of architecture.

A AIAS is where I got my start and I'm going to try to not be too nostalgic today. However, I cannot express how important this organization is to me because really at the heart of this group is people and community. And the work that they're doing to support students is really about enhancing a student's educational experience through leadership, professional development, career support, advocacy, and so so much more. So I'm excited to hear what they have to say today.

B So we're pleased to welcome Cooper Moore and Nicole Bass to the show. They are the president and vice president of AIAS working full time with the AIAS in Washington DC. Welcome Cooper and Nicole.

C Hi.

A So maybe we should start by hearing a little bit about your current roles that you're serving in and how you kind of made that transition from the programs you were at into AIAS.

C Yeah. Of course. I could get started. Well, first, I just wanna say thank you so much for the invitation. I'm so excited to be on this podcast with y'all, especially with alumni. As you guys mentioned, my name is Nicole Bass, and I'm the current national vice president. So in my role, I get to do a lot of membership facing programs and initiatives, helping chapters get started, reconnecting chapters back into the larger AIS network, and all that fun stuff. And along with Cooper Gowan, wonderful chapter visits, whether it be virtual or in person.

C And in terms of getting my way to this position, I was kind of dragged into AIS my freshman year, and I feel like that's very much the, stop storyline to all of this. In my freshman year, my chapter, City College of New York, hosted a quad conference, and that's where I met practically the entire northeast quad because who wouldn't want to come to New York City over spring break? And since then I've just been involved on the chapter level regionally, ran for a few positions, and finally got this position. And it's been a long journey. It's weird to say it's 6 years later, but here I am with Cooper and it's really exciting to kind of finally do all the things that I have observed over the years, but also just pioneer, especially post pandemic and having more international AIS than previously.

D Yeah. And I'll give a a plus one to Nicole. Thank you so much for having us. This is a a super exciting opportunity for us. So I'm Cooper. I'm the national president. I guess we should start saying, like, global as a vice president since we're growing internationally. But I'm the president this year.

D I graduated in 2021 from Kent State University, just outside Cleveland, Ohio. I had been on the board of the AIS before. I was the Midwest quad director, during my senior year and then took a year off, finished up school, figured some things out, and then ran for president last year and was lucky enough to be elected. So Nicole and I moved to DC in June of last year to get started with our positions, and we're having a great time so far.

B Janine, before you jumped into the next question, I just want to say so I'm not, I'm an alumni at heart, but I guess I'm not an a leadership alumni in the same way that Janine is. And, like, it it took me a while to have the same courage that you guys had to go through an election and a campaign to be in the place that you are. So I'm always in awe of people who go through that at such a young age. I just wanna throw that out there.

D Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I mean, it is it is kind of intimidating sometimes. So, like, Nicole is vice president is on the board of the ACSA, and our president is on the board of the AIA. And so well, first of all, just memorizing all the acronyms can be a challenge, but, you know, to be in those rooms with these super accomplished people who have, like, years of experience on us, that then look to us and say, you know, tell us what to do. I mean, it's it can be kind of scary, but I think we're very grateful to be to be included in that way.

C Yeah. For sure. And running well, I know Cooper ran in person and virtually, but I ran virtually for most of my national positions, and that's definitely something no one could prepare you for. So I appreciate the comment.

A And it's fun because we just wrapped up their recent election cycle where there was an entire group of new candidates and they had to prep speeches. And there was how many people ran this year? I can't remember.

D I assume it was it was around 20 or so students for all the different positions. Yeah.

A It felt like a lot. It was wonderful and it was so exciting to see. And so I know you guys have also elected new incoming leaders for your next board cycle. Maybe we should talk about and frame for our audience what AIAS is, as an organization? What's the mission that you guys are kind of striving to achieve? And then how do you work with students to actually achieve that?

C Yeah. Of course. So this is kind of a chapter pitch I always give to students who might not know what AIS is to begin with. And I always like to start off that AIS is an independent nonprofit that is student run and is dedicated to advancing leadership, design, and service among architecture students. And that could range from a high school freshman to a PhD candidate in architecture. And that's kind of the 3 pillars that that we proceed forward with our programming, events, webinars, even our committee charges. And one thing that we are really proud of is that last year, I believe, during the summer council of presidents where we convened all of our chapter presidents across the world. So that's roughly 300 people to get online.

C We updated our vision to some to say something more along the lines of a more sustainable, healthy, and equitable future for through the empowerment of student voices, ideas, and actions. So that's kind of our mission and vision of the statement or of the organization. And as I mentioned before, like, we try to ingrain these beliefs in everything we do, whether it be from conferences, our conferences, or, you know, chapter connections.

D Yeah. Absolutely. It's a great way to put it. And our like Nicole was saying, our board is is a student majority, which I think sets us apart in a lot of ways from other organizations and gives us that youthful perspective that everyone should be hearing whether they seek it out or not. But I can get into some of the ways that we that we work towards that goal. So one of the one of the big ways that we try and advance those topics is through our freedom by design program, which is entering almost 20 years 20 years of doing it. And it's a community service design build organization or program of the AIS, I should say. It's not a separate organization.

D But we have FPD programs at all of our chapters, and they seek out projects in their communities. We're able to provide funding for them. You know, sometimes it's as simple as a wheelchair ramp. Other times, it's it's on the scale of kind of a community garden. But our students work under licensed architects, and they can get hours towards licensure working on that program. So it's a super cool way to get involved. We also have conferences every year. We have a grassroots conference every summer.

D It's leadership focused here in DC, and we have a forum conference every winter. And that changes locations every year, and we're making some improvements, I'd say, to the conference this year and opening it up to more than just the AIS and inviting other students from other organizations to make it an actual forum for discussion. So just kind of connecting students, we provide some professional development opportunities with some of our allied organizations and provide scholarships and try to support them through the wild ride that we know as architecture school.

A And for those who don't know that the organization has a very long history. It actually has been around for quite some time. And another data point is that it is separate from the AIA. So what's cool about it is the organization has its own operating budget, it completely runs independently from the AIA. And what I think is so cool is the membership hasn't hit the profession yet. And so you guys offer such a pure unbiased perspective about the industry because all of your members are just kind of experiencing for the first time when we, you know, if our listeners who are already in their careers, you remember back to that time that you're actually in studio. And everything about architecture is new and fresh and exciting and you're not jaded by things yet. I think that's what's really cool about listening to the students' perspective because they they have really strong opinions about where the industry should go.

A And of course, you guys do such a great job kind of continuing to make sure that that's heard and that there's ways for those students' voices to come forward. So maybe we should talk about you mentioned your winter leadership conference. I know you guys just wrapped up a major digital conference with members from across the world. So what were some of those topics that were on the front of your members' minds right now?

D Yeah. We did have a virtual week long event at the beginning of January, which is where we have our elections. And it's typically our forum conference, but it looked a little bit different this year as we reevaluate what that conference could and should be. We're we're excited that it will be in person next year. We'll be doing it again. We've decided on the location, but I don't think we're we're, revealing that just yet. We're gonna keep the surprise. But it's a big conference, and it's a big place for discussion.

D So our members our members are always bringing things to our attention. And something that that we're really hearing a lot this year is a desire for an architecture that is inseparable from community service and, you know, not the typical sitting there doing Revit and and producing whatever it is that needs to be produced, but kind of going out into the community, a kind of alternative career path that is beyond the traditional architect and maybe even beyond buildings. But our members are starting to really bring up the idea that architecture can be a system, or it can be a project, or it could be kind of whatever we want it to be. You know, we all learn problem solving and all these other kinds of things in school in addition to structures and and that sort of stuff. But I'd I'd say that's something that we're hearing a lot this year is is how can we change the profession to be more accessible to people who aren't interested necessarily in detailing wall sections.

C Yeah. Definitely a plus one to everything Cooper said. It's really evaluating the skill set we learned through the architecture education and applying it forward to not just the architecture field or profession, but interdisciplinary, bringing in policy, bringing in landscape, bringing in community driven initiatives, bringing in politics at sometimes. And this is students across the world. This isn't just the northeast or the west quad or the Middle East. It really is in every school that students really want to see this integration. And we definitely heard it loud and clear during our winter conference.

D I was gonna give another topic. We've been talking a lot about learning and teaching culture, which we used to call studio culture, but we're pushing the message now that learning and teaching culture is a more inclusive term for everybody involved. It's not just on the students. It's not just on the faculty, but it's or just the administration even, but it's everybody involved in this. And architecture school should be a much healthier environment, and so we're making guides and encouraging students to evaluate their the learning and teaching culture policies at their schools and kind of change those for the better.

B I feel like practitioners, I feel like the some immediate response from the practitioners listening in and hearing kind of the thread that you mentioned about wanting the immediate social impact. We'll be hearing that and saying, there goes our our pipeline right to the future of the profession. All of these people want to pursue architecture paths or different, like, architecture paths outside of traditional practice. And I guess I mean, obviously, I get very excited about that conversation for for personal reasons, but I would want to flip that and say that to any one of our listeners that's really kind of thinking that here's an opportunity to think about how to expand practice to incorporate these type of engagements rather than like being worried about what we are losing by people trying to go and find these engagements elsewhere. So I just wanted to kind of frame it up that way. And then yes, yes to a learning culture. This is something that we even talk about internally at Slack and about how we're still figuring out how to work better in this new way of working. And we're not going to get it right the first time.

B So that in itself is is asking not only for patience from our workforce, but the understanding that we're gonna keep continuing to evolve things as we hear feedback from you to continue to make things better.

D Yeah. Thank you for reframing it that way. Because we've heard complaints as well about firm culture in the profession. And I think that it starts with learning and teaching culture. I mean, what you learn in school is what you take into the profession. So for setting a good example and clearly defining our expectations for a healthy working environment, whether it's in the studio in school or whether it's in a firm. I think it's gonna start in the schools and it's gonna move on up as we do into the the workplace.

A I'm really glad that you brought both of these ideas up because I think this is this was my sense that these were things that might be on students' minds, but to hear you guys articulate that and confirm that, especially the leadership group, is amazing. I wanna dive deeper into just specifically students' expectations as they are thinking about their careers and possibility of transitioning into firms. Like, what are they looking for out of jobs and the firms that they might join?

D Yeah. I can start this one off. I just had a brilliant conversation last week about what students are expecting and and what Affirm could do to attract students when they're looking. And, I I mean, I think the one thing that students are another thing they're asking us is is what should I ask in an interview? Because we don't really know all the time, you know, what we can ask to make us sound, intelligent, first of all, and employable. But also, you know, an interview isn't just you being interviewed. You need to make sure that that's a place that you wanna work. So we're we're trying to help students know what they can ask and and what's kind of like a reasonable thing to bring up in a job interview. And so what we were talking about is is in terms of compensation and the idea that compensation can be so much more than a salary.

D And it's not entirely financial, but that compensation can be as simple as being able to sleep at night with what you do every day. They could also be, you know, health care. It could be all kinds of remote work capacity and that sort of thing, but just kind of I think that this generation is looking to be taken care of in ways that aren't a big paycheck. I don't know that that many students are still coming into this profession thinking if they ever did, that they're gonna become millionaires and make gazillions of dollars and live this kind of jetsetting lifestyle. You know, not to get not to get too deep or anything. But I think this this generation, even a little bit younger than us in school now, have been raised with the idea that, like, we might not get Social Security. I mean, the American dream is not super achievable anymore. And so I think that it's less about becoming rich and having all kinds of expensive cars, but it's it's doing a good job and fixing the world and sustainability and just, yeah, being able to sleep at night.

D I mean, knowing that you're doing a good thing, I think, can be compensation as well. So I think that a lot of students are looking for a firm or a workplace that will allow them to make a difference and to have that kind of experience, maybe more so than than just getting some different numbers in the check every week.

C Yeah. Definitely plus one for that. I feel like a lot of students kinda just to add on to what Cooper mentioned is, like, it's kind of this idea of, like, work life balance, but, like, truly practicing that. So I think to hit on the topics Cooper just mentioned, but is, like, once students or interns or recent grads are in jobs and they wanna make a difference, getting that support. Getting that support from their direct manager, their principals, the firm that says, like, yes. I see you as a human who wants to use design to change the world. Here are the channels to do so. Whether it be in the firm, whether it be external, whether it be with AIS, you know, all these other channels and having that firm support you through that.

C And, you know, that is part of compensation. There's also so many students that aren't the traditional idea of, like, I'm just a student going to school, and that's all I do. That's not what our students do. Okay? It's like they work. They pay for their rent. They pay for their siblings' food or travel. They spend time to take care of their grandparents. They drive them to the hospitals for clinics or for appointments on top of studio.

C They're trying to pay off for school, so then they also have to apply to scholarships, apply to competitions, and still manage 8 hours of sleep every day, still manage to eat 3 meals, still manage to be attentive in class, but still put in enough time for studio in addition to all the other things that they're interested in. So many other students are either double majoring or minoring into sustainability, in urban planning, in law. We have so many alumni and so many students that we know now that aren't just doing architecture in their education, they're doing others. And it's interdisciplinary. And understanding that, like, that work life balance needs to translate equally. So if they need to drive their grandmothers to, you know, like, clinics Friday afternoon, so therefore, they can't work Friday afternoons because they're the only person that can drive and has the time and has a workplace that understands that they have life commitments outside of work is so crucial. And this is something, again, as Cooper mentioned, like, they're having these conversations out in studio. They're being frank with their professors.

C Professors might not always understand or have the best way to handle these conversations, but regardless it's happening. And, like, through AIS and, like, I would even say a lot of our committee work, We're trying to give them the tools, platforms to speak to us about it, to get our advice and support, but also to just connect with other students who are experiencing the same thing, but honestly are on different coasts. Yeah. That's a goal on my soapbox.

A No. Please do. It's welcome here. And to tease out, like, this idea about what we were talking about just a little bit before, I kinda heard through some of the conversations that happened during the election that there are some students that recognize there's limited pathways to achieve what you're describing in traditional practice. And so they communicated to me that they've already recognized that they may have to pursue alternative pathways. And so I've also heard from academic professors of studio that they're seeing a rise in interest on alternative careers. And so they're having to accommodate teaching and talking to students about those career options at a higher rate than what had previously been the norm.

C Yeah. A 100%. And, like, as the vice president sitting on the ACSA board and having the privilege to be in their conferences, like, I hear it all the time. Faculty are definitely seeing that this generation and the next generation have to be taught differently than how they were taught, how even I how even Cooper and I were taught. And it's it's really nice to know that they're aware of it and are interested in learning how to teach better. And I think ACSA honor awards and journal like TAD, their journal along with the conversations that they're having in the conferences, are just a clear indicator of that. And I'm just so happy to be exposed to it, but AIS and ECSA have such a strong connection, and we're looking to even, like, push that further with future, you know, conversations and programming.

D Yeah. Definitely. And I think, I mean, I think Nicole's touching on some good stuff and having professors that are both practicing architects and have that experience kind of rooted in reality and then professors that are, you know, more theoretical and in in the academic world. Having a good balance of those is, I think, pretty essential to a wholesome education and that that provides some good experience to both the typical architect and the the traditional role, which is still something that a lot of people are interested in. I mean, I don't want to sit here and say every single kid in school wants to do something else because there are still plenty of students that want to graduate and make drawings and make buildings and be able to drive past something and say, I did that. That was something that I worked on. And and the the excitement that I think doesn't lead for a lot of architects. I'm like, well, if I make a line on this paper, somebody's gonna have to walk through that door for the rest of time, and that just that kind of cool power that you have as an architect is is still pretty appealing.

D But there are definitely students that are looking elsewhere to get what they're looking. And I think that that if we can, you know, push the profession to evolve and adapt, we'll be able to to get those people to stick around.

B I mean, the biggest difference for me and kind of what I'm hearing and my experience when I went to school is there's always this mindset, right, of like, oh, you can do anything with an architecture degree. Like, there are several professors who told me that, but I I guess I never thought about seeking solutions at the time, because I was just like, oh, okay, I'm just going to go through and and find my path. So I I'm almost like, wow, the students now are so much smarter to have realized this so early on in their education and to be pushing for change there. So for me, it's a I think it's a positive sign of where the future other profession is headed, but but I absolutely think that as an industry and as a profession, we need to capture those students that that take a path outside of traditional practice and still help them be a part of this architectural community.

A I also wanna go back to this idea. I wrote it down, learning and teaching culture. So thanks for sharing that update with me. I you know, as someone who was around when the term studio culture was coming out, this is really great information to know that that term's changing, and I will start to use that language. But, yeah, I think what I'm excited about and what you guys are doing is that you're trying to communicate value systems through teaching that I do think you're correct translate into practice. And just wondering, like, how you see that change unfolding or, you know, what opportunities you would hope to see long term for the future of the industry.

C Yeah. I could kick it off. I think one of the things that we're looking towards right now is that right right now, we have a a special committee for Jedi. And that's something that, you know, a lot of students wanna have on their own chapter. They wanna have a Jedi specific goal or, committee or whatever it might manifest as. And having that reflect in a profession, like, does your company have some JEDI values and policies or, you know, touch bases of these ideas and how we integrate that into architecture? And, you know, we're even looking to make the Jedi our Jedi Committee more permanent, and that could be like a next step forward of, like, hey. Look. If AIS is doing it, what are the other organizations and firms doing it? And not to necessarily tokenize the JEDI committee because they're not all experts.

C Like, we have students on our committees, and it's to show that regardless of how in-depth we know about the field or about JEDI, we're still trying to make strides for it. And we understand that there's all of that in the entire field, whether it be academia or in the profession.

D I wanna I do wanna give, before I forget, a shameless plug for our model learning and teaching culture policy. We drafted a a template or a guide on what what should be included in a healthy learning and teaching environment and the policies to to kind of keep it there. So that's available on our website, and it's, I think, been a tremendous resource for a lot of our members to to make that change in their studios. So one of the big the big stances that we've taken in terms of learning and teaching culture is the all nighter and this this idea that you must suffer to be a good architect, and you must pull many long hours in the studio to get a good project. And it's definitely important to put work into your projects and to consider them and and to make them very wholesome solutions to see these pretty important project problems. But the idea that you have to pull 3 all nighters in a row to get a good model for your review is, I think, just ridiculous. And so we've taken a a pretty strong stance against the all nighter in this glorious suffering culture in in the hopes that that students will learn that it's not necessary to be mean to yourself, to put it very simply, and then take that into the profession where I think that maybe the all nighters aren't quite as common, but definitely the the culture of of suffering and putting yourself through that is is still there.

C Yeah. I'll just even add on on that. It's like me and my friends make so many jokes about how many cuts we got over the years of making models and things like that. And, like, there's it's true. There's, like, some glorification of, like, well, I got, like, a cut on my hand and I had to get 6 stitches. What did you do for your model? And it's just like, why are you going to the ER for a model that, like, you know, you're in your 2nd or 3rd year? It's not that serious. But kind of talking more so about, like, these AIS's tools for changing the profession to an extent is we have our public policies. We're looking now this year and to have kid utilize them to be a little stronger and to give them as like, to equip our chapter leaders with these things.

C But really looking at that as like, look, these are all the stances AIS stands for. Whether it be no all nighters or having, you know, no discrimination, things like that. And it's one of the things that we're really proud of because it's an accumulation of, you know, this past, like, 10, 20 years. And it's not just us making it, but it's us looking at it every year and being like, hey. Things have changed. Let's take the time to look and reflect and adjust accordingly. And doing that process really shows members, chapter leadership, and even signals to the schools and to the profession of like, hey. If AIS is taking the time to do it, you could take the time to do it.

C I wish it was as loud as that, but I think year by year, it definitely grows. And we're certainly looking forward to bring back, like, student hill day and other advocacy events and, again, tools to help our chapter leadership, you know, make impact on a local level.

D Yeah. Definitely. We're doing that a lot through our our freedom by design program, like I mentioned earlier. And we're, know, we don't have any control or say over what projects are are taken on by these programs around the country. But I think what we are seeing is a rise in projects that are making a a social difference as well as just a physical one in a space, which has has been super encouraging. Actually, if I'm having a bad day, I usually just, like, look at our our FBD program and see what all the what everyone's up to. And it usually lifts the spirits because it's just such a cool program.

C Yeah. And I'll just add on that. Like, our FPD is, again, across the world. So it's in a lot of our states. It's in the Middle East. Like, we're really making an impact no matter where we go.

A Yeah. I agree with you. I mean, if you go to an AIS event, then elected officers of the AIA tend to start to go to events with the AIS. And, like, the comment that I always heard when I was in AIS from them was just, like, they were wowed by the energy and the enthusiasm and, like, it's really infectious. And I think the community building is to me one of the major things that AIS offered me. And then as you're describing it, the way to connect these ideas about change that you know that you wanna create into pathways towards action, I think is so valuable. And I'm and I'm really happy to hear about all the ways that you guys are continuing to ask those really tough questions and challenge, like, what is possible and what do students need to be successful. Because I think the vision for what an architect is has changed with this generation in a significant way and and trying to redefine, like, what does it mean to be an architect for this next group that's coming up the pipeline? So I was wondering I know you guys also have some pretty major events coming up this spring, and it sounds like it's an opportunity for people listening to get involved with the organization if they wanna support you guys.

A So why don't you tell us about the quad conferences and the career expo?

D Yeah. Happily. And thank you for saying such nice things about our conferences. I think if you asked our average member, well, no. I'll say all of our members are exceptional. We don't have any average members. If you asked our any member on the street, you know, what what got them interested in EIS and what kinda sealed the deal, I think they'd say it's our conferences because they are such a a fun environment. And I think that the students now that have gone to school, you know, the graduating students now, I think, started during the pandemic, and they went to these virtual classes.

D And and I think what they're desperate for these days is a community. And so, hopefully, having these conferences, we can start to provide that. But we do have 4 upcoming quad conferences, which are smaller regional conferences hosted by our chapters. Every year, there's a bidding process, and we've selected 4 of them for this year in each of our domestic regions. The Midwest Quad Conference will be in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, hosted by the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. Our northeast quad conference will be in Scranton, Pennsylvania, hosted at Marywood University. The south quad is going to Savannah, Georgia at the Savannah College of Art Design, SCAD, and then the West Quad will be hosted at Arizona State University in, Tempe, Arizona. So we're excited about those.

D They're all gonna be in the month of March. Everyone is welcome to attend, students, not students, design, not design. Feel free to stop by if you wanna register. That'd be great too. But you can also just I'm sure we'd be happy to see anybody show up. And so I I even think that what we've been talking about so far is translating into the themes of this year's Quad Conferences, which are decided upon by the teams that bid for them. And a lot of this year, it's about revitalizing and reviving and and kind of coming back into whatever normal is in the architecture community as frequently as that changes. And so that so we've got some really exciting themes, and it's gonna be some really exciting conferences.

D We were just charged last month at our forum conference to create an international conference. Our international regions are growing pretty quickly, and they would like to have conferences too. And then we're gonna we've been putting some work into figuring out how we're gonna pull it off because we're not a we're not a huge organization. We haven't really done much international conference work, so just figuring out the logistics and everything is gonna be a challenge. But we're really excited about that challenge. Now we're putting a lot of work into that one.

C Yeah. And I'll add with our conferences, both quad and nationally. There's always a component of a career expo. So this is really where if there's any firms or professionals or academic schools that want to come and showcase what they do and, like, get in touch with students, this is the place to do it. So if any of those locations sound close to you or you're willing to head to them, like, just let us know and email us. I'll also add that this summer, we are hosting grassroots again in person in Washington DC, and this is where again, it's open up it's all conferences are open to anyone, but, of course, we use the regional ones to get students who might not be able to travel all the way to DC for a few days to come. But Grassroots is gonna be in the middle of July, and if anyone's interested or in the area, we're more than happy to host you with our career expo. And, honestly, even our keynotes and general sessions, they're such great places to see and hear what students are listening to, what they're interested in, hear their side conversations.

C It's all really cool and important.

D I have several friends in my, network that have gotten jobs through our career expos. They've been a real benefit to our students. And I don't I don't know what it is this year, but I think there's there's been an increase in students asking for professional development, workshops, webinars, whatever it is, because we tend to go back and forth in the EIS from year to year on whether the students are looking for more social things or more professional development things. And so our even our chapters at that level from year to year kind of change what they're focused on. And this year is definitely professional development year. I mean, we have students asking about internships all the time and how they can get jobs and what's what's kind of the best place to work and that sort of stuff. So we're super excited about the upcoming career expos and and conferences.

C Yeah. And I'll add that one of the reasons that students are so interested in this is because as Cooper mentioned, they're all joined virtually. They don't know how to do an in person interview. They don't know that they need to print out their portfolio and resume as copies even though they sent them digitally. We don't know kind of all these, like, small mannerisms and medicacies, and they could lean on us and our wonderful alumni to get that inside scoop on how to do it and how to do it in 2023.

B So I I feel like the internship just that for our architects just released their amazing internship, which if you guys haven't seen it, I would recommend you go check it out because it's remote. They not only pay, but they also offer scholarship as a part of their internship. But as we enter the internship season, as we are slowly looking at new graduates entering the profession in May, what is their feeling about the current job market that they're entering?

C I think a lot of schools that have already established partnerships with either local firms feel comfortable. They're like, alright, this is just another year. Like, I'll use city college just because I'm from there. But, like, all city college students end up going to a certain firm. Or, like, you know, we have, like, 20 or 30 alumni that go to this firm. So it's that level of comfort. But there's also students who maybe haven't engaged in that aspect of AIS or haven't this is maybe their first time encountering it. And some of them are definitely nervous.

C As I said, like, they never did an interview before. They never had to write a cover letter before. This is their first time they're showing their portfolio outside of an academic, you know, space in person. And there's a a level of nervousness. So, like, where do I look? What do I say? And this is just a lot of anxiety that we see, unfortunately. But again, we're here to help. We're here to mitigate anything, and we're here to give them some, you know, realistic advice so that they don't go crazy, you know, scouring Indeed and LinkedIn for, like, days on end.

D Yeah. I think that's very true. I think there is some hesitation. You know, there's there seems to be a lot of talk about inflation and the economy and and maybe a recession in the near future. And I I certainly don't wanna make it sound like it's gonna be as bad as 2,008 because I was 11 years old, and I was blissfully unaware of what was going on in the in the grown up world at that time. But, you know, you hear about that time, people graduating at that time and and not being able to find work in architecture and so going somewhere else. And then maybe there's going to be a talent gap someday in that generation that graduated at that time and just how many of them left. So how few architects there are of that age relative to people who graduated other times.

D And so I think we might be seeing something like that again between fear over the economic situation and a desire for a profession to have already changed even though that's going to take some time. But looking for that immediate adaptation in the profession, I think we might be seeing a lot of students in recent graduates going outside of architecture unless they can find.

A I just got I just got teary eyed as you're saying that because you literally just described me. Like, literally, they hear I've got tears in my eyes. Literally, when I left office with AIS, the recession had hit, and it was so hard. And I I don't think this recession will be that way, but I am one of those people that went through that. And it's the reason I have an alternative career. It's I would have been in practice. I could have been, like, you know, that mid level person in a firm had I had the pathway into that job, but it was such a struggle. It it just never it just never happened quite in a way that gave me enough momentum into it.

A And so I always felt like I was working against the current and trying to figure it out. Anyway, I'm okay. I just did like it just hit me when you said that because I was like, oh my gosh. And I think students that are, you know, thinking about the possibility of the recession, I don't wanna intimidate them, but I do think there's some truth in what you're saying. And so, yeah, I think they can prepare, and I think knowing that their alternative pathway is out there to support them is good, but I do think firms are super eager to hire great talent because they have just gone through this massive boom where they had so much work and they just they didn't have enough people because the people are gone.

B Me recording this on today of all days when we're seeing all these layoffs in tech, and that's where my mental state was. That was kind of the response that I was pushing for when I'm asking. What is the expectation of students graduating now relative to kind of what they see in the industry?

D Yeah. Well and I think that there is some truth in what Ginny was saying. You know, we're getting kind of mixed messages. And Nicole and I, you know, the end is in sight. Like you said, we've elected the next officers. We're done at the end of July and then off into the the real world, I suppose. And we are getting some kind of mixed messages about, like, oh, firms are hiring like crazy. They can't find enough work.

A Yeah. Exactly.

D And then we're also hearing, hey. Trouble was a brewing, and it might not be too good for too long. So I I think that that we're not really sure what to think in a lot of ways, but I certainly hope that we won't have to go through such hard times and keep fighting for very long for the profession to become more accepting of these alternative career paths. And if this conversation, yeah, I I would like it to to be easier, but it's not always up to us.

C Yeah. And I'll just chime in a little bit and just say, like, that's also one of the beautiful things about AIS. Right? Like, through every turmoil that the field has faced and will face, the AIS community is there for them. Whether it be, like, your peers right here, right now, like sitting next to you during studio or whether it be an upperclassman that's like trying to help, trying to just do some good work or it's an alumni 5, 10, 15 years past. And it's like, I wanna hire from my school. I wanna hire from AIS because they know how good we are. We know and can trust all of the effort that we put into, you know, helping one another. And despite anxieties and hesitations, I would hope that our members definitely know that we're here for them and each and every one of them, whether they're a chapter leader or not.

A Yeah. Absolutely. And I also wanna say that there is a group of practitioners out there, Evelyn and myself included, and I know that the legacy are listening to this episode. And so I just want you to know that there is a group of people out there that absolutely have your back as AIS and alumni. And so for practitioners listening, can you leave us with any ideas about how firm leaders and practitioners and alumni can show up for AIS and support you all and your members?

D Yeah. I mean, the the very simple realistic answer is money. It never hurts. But more truthfully, I think that that, like, sponsoring membership in the AIS through our membership grant campaign and things like that, you know, supporting Freedom by Design projects and encouraging their employees at their firms to to go to universities and help these students. And and with Freedom by Design, you'll get involved in the builds and and support them, publicize them, and let everybody know the kind of good things that are going on in the community.

C Yeah. Plus one to everything what Cooper said. And ultimately is tap into the community because the community is the students, is the faculty, is the practitioners. And if a local firm is like, hey, you know, City College is down the street. I've never, you know, taken the taken the opportunity or time to check them out check them out. Let me go check out their Instagram. Let me go check out their LinkedIn. Let me go just ask, like, the chair or the dean to say, hey.

C Like, I'm practicing, architects. I'd love to get in touch with students either through a career expo, let them come to my firm and, like, see my space and how firms come in all spaces and sizes, really extending the handout being and ultimately just being present being present in the community. So if there is anything you see on honestly, I love Instagram so that's why I always plug it in. But, truly, like, so many of our chapters are posting constantly about general body meetings, about tying their dean in the face, about hosting career expos, about having an architecture movie night. Like, if you see it, like it, engage. There's so many ways to be present, and that's probably the cheapest and easiest way for practitioners to do that for our chapters.

D Yeah. And you said something that reminded me of another thing that I think it's really important. And I don't want to leave here today thinking like, feeling that we've demonized the practicing architect because that's really not what we wanna do. But, you know, as we talk about firm culture and and what these students are looking for, I'm sure there will be people out there listening to this thinking, well, my firm does have some of those things, and and we do that. And I would say just invite students at local universities in for firm tours. You know, let them shadow. Let them come see what you do and and try and you know, we can we can debunk that stigma, I guess, that firms just do Revit, and they just do one thing, and then it's a very monotonous job. So just inviting in students to see the cool things that you're doing that are maybe a little more nontraditional and progressive, I think, could go a long way in helping those students want to stick around.

C Yeah. And sorry. Plus 1, because you reminded me of something, was also, like, mentorship goes such a long way. Like and this is where I could finally talk about City College realistically is that we partnered with a handful of local, New York City firms that like they're just mentors to us. We might not apply for their firm, we might not you know, even stay in New York City, but we at least know a professional that like is willing to just be there. Just be a helping hand, a listening ear, someone to give us insight and be honest in what's happening in the field because so many times we see that like we host these events and either some group is not meeting us halfway or sometimes it just gets really busy. But mentorship will always stick through on through. If you can't meet 1 month, you can meet the next month.

C If you can't meet in person, you can meet virtually. And that's something that we see very true in all of our chapters, and we're so excited and proud both of our AIS chapters, but of the firms who are willing to take their time and energy to mentor our members. And we really encourage that across, again, all of our 300 chapters and more.

B Now I think for me, this conversation has been so incredibly reassuring. I think it's, I mean, it's a bit cliche that, you know, to say that I think our future is in good hands, but I think just hearing about what the future of architecture students are are asking and demanding not only of the teachers and hoping that comes into to practice as as they grow into their own career leadership. It makes me really excited about where this profession is headed. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of that. So you've given your thoughts on how the profession can support AIAS directly and and kind of participate and support your chapters. Is there anything that you want practitioners in particular to take away from this conversation when they're thinking about attracting and retaining this next generation that's coming out of school?

C You know, if you made it all the way through this podcast, which I appreciate, I think something that is really important is that we're we're always here. There'll always be architecture students, and it's kind of like an endless supply. So the efforts you put in isn't just, oh, I'm gonna do it for 1 year and then I'm good. It's constantly and consistently being there for students. And I know that there are just difficulties because not everyone has the bandwidth and and it takes time. But starting just with 1, it just takes one hello to a student to really see what's going on, asking them about what's happening in studio, what's happening in AIS, what's happening that you're concerned about. There's always gonna be a student around every corner. So I would just encourage practitioners to go around the corner and say hi.

D Yeah. And I would say that what you do is noticed and seen. And so when you're when you're making these changes in your firm to firm culture and the kind of benefits that you're offering and and the projects that you take on and the work that you do. I I think that students are very aware, and recent graduates are very aware of all of those things. And when it's moving in a positive direction, like, I I think that we are collectively. I think that's it's just a really good thing, and I think that people are aware of that. And we just have to to keep it

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