Entrepreneurship in Architecture, Apostrophe Consulting

A What if you could start a movement to change the bill's environment? How would you help the architectural community come up with new ways to build a better world where people come together to live, work, and play in elegant buildings made of cutting edge sustainable materials. Stop dreaming. That opportunity is real and is at the American Institute of Steel Construction. They're looking for creative architects to reimagine the way our profession approaches structural steel by developing a program to help us harness structural innovation today and tomorrow. learnmore@aisc.org/architecture that aisc.org/architecture.

B I'm Evelyn Lee, and I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to practice disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

B Hi, Evelyn. Hi, Disruptors.

A So I feel like in the past year, probably for good reason, A lot of the spotlight has been on myself and what I have been doing. So today, I am pleased to turn the conversation back towards my co host, my co collaborator, I would say for practice disrupted to interview Janine about her path into entrepreneurship and her overall career path. So for those of you who don't know, Janine runs Apostrophe Consulting. And what Apostrophe Consulting is is a purpose driven woman owned management consulting practice dedicated to helping architects transform their companies. Specifically, she delivers for teas and talent development, change management, and business strategy. And Janine helps her clients navigate growth in a changing world. Now what is maybe a little bit funny to all of you is in spite of all of the work that Janine and I do and in the podcast, we don't really go deep into the work unless we talk about it on the podcast that we do in our own lives away from the test. So the first time I got to really see what Janine was doing at Apostrophe Consulting was at the Chicago conference, not in 2023, but in 2022.

A And I was actually super impressed by the way she was approaching things and how she was making it fun. For instance, would be she showed this one chart with a whole bunch of Star Wars names on there that was relevant to bindings of a survey that she put together with a firm, and that was one of her ways to kind of anonymize the data, but also make it a lot more fun and accessible to her client. And that's the high level fun example. But anyways, I was super impressed by the work she does, and I'm happy to take this moment in time in this episode to dive deeper in the work that she's doing. So Janine, as you know, we always open up each episode by asking our guests briefly introduce themselves. In our audience, yes, they already know you, but what else would you like them to know about you?

B It is so much harder being on this side of the conversation than being the interviewer, but I'm gonna do my best. So 1st and foremost, I'm a small business owner And I'm a podcaster, as you all know. But before I jumped into entrepreneurship, I was on the path to becoming a licensed architect. And I worked in the Bay Area for nearly 10 years, which is how Evelyn and I met when I was out there, our our paths overlap. And I was working in architectural design and various marketing positions at architecture Firms. And both of those experiences taught me a lot about the profession. when I was working in design jobs, I learned about the project side of architecture and how teams come together and what it's like work in Revit and what it's like to put buildings together. And when I was working in marketing positions, I learned about practice management and firm operations and how you lead the firm as a whole and how you win work.

B So I feel like My time in the Bay Area was very informative to what I do now in my consulting practice. looking both at project management and practice management.

A When did you realize What over that course of this this the year in the the years in the bay, or maybe it didn't happen in the bay. What you were most passionate about?

B It was really hard, actually. It didn't all come into focus for me until towards the end of my time, probably because of the recession. I talk about that a lot when I talk about my career, but because I was coming out of school and entering the profession when the recession hit. I landed in this weird time where there weren't a lot of jobs for folks like me. And so I remember applying to I would say probably probably, like, 60 jobs at different phases of that process. And I almost feel like I did marketing before I did marketing because I was, like, marketing myself to firms, like, trying to slot into these positions that would come up. I would be like, you need a sustainability coordinator. I'll be your sustainability coordinator.

B even though that was obviously not something I had expertise in or marketing, which is how I landed in marketing or drafting or whatever. So I was constantly, like, tweaking my resume to try and slot myself into the positions that were available, which there weren't that many, and they were very competitive to get. And I just didn't have enough experience at that point to really qualify. So All of that to say, I think one of the things that was challenging for me is understanding my strengths and my passion, and it took it took several years for me to start paying attention to that again after I finally got a job and I started trying to work and realize that maybe this isn't the right fit for me. And maybe I need to understand what is the right fit for me. I mean, a lot

A of things happen in those 6. I think you just kind of shared your your reflection on on the recession, but that I think cause a lot to happen, not only in your career, but in your your personal life, and then during the year time out here, you also went and got your MBA. So is there is there anything else specifically that you wanna share that helped that helped you on that journey or the things that you found yourself jumping into because you were unsure of where you wanted to go?

B Well, I think the first thing that was a good alignment was when Sylvia Quan hired me for marketing at her firm. I was jumping from job to job, and she decided to take a chance on me and I think marketing made sense for my natural strengths and got me in the door on the business side of things. So and Sylvia was an amazing mentor in that she took me to meetings. She would bring me to interviews. Like, I got to go to an interview San Francisco Airport, she would bring me into business development conversations. So I feel like marketing fit, but also getting to mentor with her during that time and learn. She's, like, one of the best networkers I've ever met, and I learned a lot from her during that time. So that was one moment And I think the other definitive thing that helped me was when I pursued my MBA, when I attended my business classes.

B I just felt like I connected with the material, and it made sense to me. And it felt like that was the right direction to go with my career. Like, I really enjoyed it, and it instead of me having to fit myself into it, it felt like it fit me. which was really rewarding. And so the more I listened to that, the more I was feeling aligned with the direction of my career.

A So when did you start thinking about apostrophe consulting and and going off on your own only because, you know, I run practice of architecture in the background of everything I am doing partly because it's so brave of individuals, I think, to go off and go off on their own, and it's just not something that is not a step that I've taken myself. So I'm always wondered when you started thinking about that and, you know, talk about imposter syndrome and getting in in your own head, how you overcame how you knew that this could this was the right path for you and and kind of the one that you really wanted to go all in on.

B Yeah. That's a great question. I think the first time Apache consulting appeared was It wasn't named that. Of course. It was I got done with AIS, my 1 year in Washington, DC, and It was time to go forward and find a job and enter the profession. And our team was in transition at that moment because a big part of my year was we hired a new executive director. And so to help with the transition, they kept me on for a month as a consultant. And so that was kind of just like an early moment of being exposed to what a consultant is.

B It was very, very small, and I wouldn't qualify it as substantial work, but it did give me that kind of initial understanding of that that is a possibility along with seeing some other amazing consultants that Jim Kramer being one of them through that year in AISC. He, like, helped us with our strategic plan and many others like Meg Wench was a consultant that I worked with on a communications interview process at Perkinsville. And there are others like Saskia and a Stevens. But to go back to your question, well, it's multiple answers. Apostrophe consulting started during my MBA. 60 years ago is when I graduated with my MBA. And during my last year's school, I was working on the business plan for a passerby Consulting. And so I've you know, pretty much the last 6 years have been building in this direction, but another layer to this answer is that when I was really young, I think I always knew I wanted to run a business.

B Like, you always talk about on the show that you you knew you wanted to be an architect early on and you were drawing floor plans in school. Well, I have similar stories, but it was like playing make believe about envisioning running a business as early as kindergarten. And

A -- Wow. --

B I was always thinking about that. creativity that comes with business ownership of stepping into different business models or pathways to entrepreneurship. And that's because I come from a very entrepreneurial family, including my parents and my great grandparents. And so from a I would say from a really young age, I was introduced to that entrepreneurial spirit and mindset and It just, you know, that's how I was raised to think like that. And I knew I wanted to run a business. I didn't know what business I wanted to run And when I went and got my MBA, that allowed me the clarity to understand how to step in this direction. I think when I was working in architecture firms, I always thought it was gonna be, you know, me stepping into a net generation entrepreneurial role for one of my firms or getting licensing going out and starting an architecture firm. But when I went through the process of getting my MBA, and I really enjoyed that process.

B The path to consulting became clear the more time I spent in business school. And so I designed a whole business around the idea that I could be an agent of change in our industry by focusing on the business side of things and trying to help firms improve their operations. I mean, so that's kinda what I did. And to answer your question about the imposter syndrome, I think I totally had have had will probably continue to have imposter syndrome. I think why we don't talk about apostrophe consulting much is because I had to get ready to talk about it. And, you know, I'm coming up on my 4th year doing this, and it's been when we started the podcast in 2020, I was, you know, just starting out and I had no idea what my business was gonna look like. And I have spent the past 4 years day after day building it and learning what it is and what it isn't and what I can do and where my weaknesses are. And I think Evelyn, you've been really instrumental in helping me kind of well, at least come to the podcast and feel supported during that time where the business was being created.

B The podcast has been like a really great outlet for me to feel stronger and build my confidence. And then I would say all of these people who listen to the podcast and our friends have invited us to all these speaking engagements, and that has been just amazing to to receive that reception and to be asked to come speak at the women's leadership summit or to get to go speak at Mark's entree architect annual conference. Each one of those, I think, through the process of building this business has given me maybe a little bit more courage to keep trying to figure out how to tell the story.

A And I don't think you offer. I don't think you give your enough credit either, kind of, for your perseverance to this because I remember early on having a very distinct conversation with you. And at the time, I was also debating, you know, what does it look like to potentially go out on on my own? And, obviously, I didn't. But I remember, like, I feel like you've given me hope in that practice is changing because because I had this this we had this very distinct conversation of even though you and I believe practice needs to evolve, I don't know how many architecture firms out there are actually going to pay for that evolution and for the consultant to help them with that evolution. And, I mean, you definitely proven me wrong there and and and I think the best way possible. So I don't know. You you you say I've been very supportive, but I think I've also been kind of you know, additionally critical of the business idea and also how receptive architects are ultimately gonna be.

B Well, I was too. And when I started, I wasn't where I am now and what I think is possible. You know, I think I have a lot more understanding of what I what is possible in that realm early on. I was very broad in the services that I was offering. In fact, Early on, I was offering marketing. And I think a lot of people still think of me as a marketer But, truly, that's just because that's safe. It's safe to say, hey. I can help you with your marketing because I know it forwards and backwards, and I don't have to risk anything in offering that service, but where my vision is are the harder things, the things that aren't proven or tested and they don't exist.

B It's steering a firm in a new direction that is not precedented. That's what gets me excited. It's pushing firms and our street into new spaces with the way that we're operating, which sounds like an abstract idea, but I think One of the things I've learned is when I'm selling my services, I'm really not focused as much about what I'm selling as much as I'm focused on the people that I'm partnering with. So 1st and foremost, I I look for people that if I invest my time in them, that the return on that investment will grow and has a has the opportunity to shape the profession for the better. And I look at the individual leaders and their capacity for growth or their interest in kind of taking practice in that new direction? Do they have the tolerance for wanting to change the industry? And looking for the right fit, I think, is a big part of my process. And that allows me to work on projects that are more aligned with what I would like to be doing.

A So I imagine with any business too, you've been, I mean, and I've seen it right happen. You've been able to come, become a lot more selective with who you work with over time as your capacity gets full too, and you can make those choices. So how, like, in the same aspects that architects want to find the right client for them to work with. How like, what does that prospecting process look like for you nowadays?

B That's a good question. Honestly, it's been mostly through referral. Like, I feel like I mean, it's really word-of-mouth. Like, it seems like You know, I'm in a unique position that I have a really broad network, and I think that existed before the podcast. And so people have referred me to great people. And I think people who have seen me marketing myself working on these different projects and conferences have been interested to know what that is that I'm actually offering. And so that maybe even out of curiosity, sometimes they'll reach out.

A I mean, I definitely my strategy work and the work I did and the business, like, that what that business development process looked like. Definitely was a little bit of people reaching out out of curiosity. So My recommendation for anyone with listening with any type of curiosity would be to reach out to you. You talk a little bit about when apostrophe consulting started to to form and also kind of how it's evolved and changed over time. I think so much of what you bring to the table, though, especially when it comes to setting up mentorship programs for the younger generation is experiences that you've felt personally in the profession and what's need to evolve. So how do you bring that to what you do and and and to how what you deliver at apostrophe.

B I think that Because I worked in practice, I have a really unique perspective as a consultant that I'm not sure that all consultants offer There are definitely consultants who've worked in practice, but I wouldn't say that there's many consultants working on business management that worked in practice as recently as 10 years ago. So I know what it's like to sit at a desk and open up Brevit in the morning, and what happens when a model is not functioning. And I know what it feels like when you're looking for a mentor to help you grow in the industry and you're not really sure how to get the help that you need to succeed. I feel like I experienced a lot of the problems that our industry is going through both working in projects and on project teams And then also at the firm management level when I was working in a marketing capacity. So I could see these trends and the problems And it wasn't specific to any one firm. It was, you know, noticeable to me that when I would transition to different jobs or different firms or talk to people in different firms. A lot of what it was being discussed was industry And it kind of was across a lot of different firms. Like, there were patterns.

B A lot of the challenges were shared. And I think some of that is tied to the lack of business management knowledge in our field. But really at the heart of it, I think a lot of it is related to people and our limitations on managing people in relationship to producing great work. And so I saw a need in our profession that wasn't being addressed. When I worked inside a firm, sometimes I would bring these things up. and and get a lot of pushback. It's amazing how now being on the outside talking about these issues, it's a lot easier when you're not the employee bringing them up. I feel like now having worked as a consultant for a few years I recognize that these are very complex issues, and there's a lot of different things that need to be addressed.

B But what motivates me is knowing that there's somebody working in a firm that was just like me, not too long ago, feeling the struggle, feeling like our industry's broken, feeling like they just desperately want someone in their firm management to, like, fix this thing that's negatively impacting them. And I know that I can be someone who can come in from the outside and help even if it's just a small amount, I can make it a little bit better for them if if I can have a conversation with the people involved. It doesn't mean I can always fix it, but at least I can I think I've been a a lot of my clients tell me that they value that I'm kinda on the outside and that I can come in objectively and talk about the issue and detach it from being personalized, detach it from being specific to their firm and talk about it from a broader standpoint as a as an item that can be addressed using design.

A I I think you're actually this an incredible advocate for millennials and and very in a and in a way, gen z, and you have that direct connection from the same struggles that a lot of millennials, especially those that graduated in the recession have gone through. So we talked about kind of the evolution of apostrophe consulting over time. What are what type of projects are you doing now?

B So I mentioned it's been a process of kind of fine tuning this, but I've narrowed it down to 3 things. business strategy, which is at the heart of the education that I received during my MBA, talent development, and change management. And so what does that mean? Well, business strategy is essentially looking at the business as a design problem looking at the organization as systems that operate together and that you and even your people, like, all of the functions that they're filling in the roles that they play in the firm. From a management standpoint, you can design efficiencies and processes And even through just some basic communication, you can make things better. It's the same as iterating on a project design in architecture, but you're looking at it through the lens of these kind of intangible systems that exist within the dynamics of a firm. And so I really enjoy that a lot. I think a lot of the strategy part of it came out of my experience. First thinking about marketing strategy and how to win work.

B and then kind of expanding strategy into other elements of the firm that are more operational. So a lot of times, some of the examples I often come in on retreats. That's probably one of my things that I love doing the most is anytime I can get a group of people together and have conversations that they otherwise wouldn't have. Love it because that's how we get to the point where we can solve problems. So like, when retreat I did earlier this year was around just talking about standards for a firm. when we sit at our desk, we may not be having the conversations of what standards apply to the whole firm. We might believe that we can set those standards on our projects and that they'll just magically happen across the office. But through the process of a retreat, we actually took the time to define and expand, like, how we might document and educate staff on what those standards are and what they need to be.

B So that was really rewarding conversation. From a talent development standpoint, you know, like you said, Evelyn, I just really believe in the power of our industry is really focused on people. It's the communities that we design for our clients and the people who deliver the great work that we do are the ones that we hire to work on operations is managing around your talent strategy. You can't just hire someone out of school and say, okay. Go get licensed. work on your AXP. Take your Ares, and you'll know what you need to become a licensed architect. That's great, but that's not enough.

B It has to go further than that. And I've been working with firms on a variety of talent development programs from customized mentorship programs to teaching about communication skills. The latest one that I'm really proud of is teaching about project management, but not from a generalized one size fits all approach. No. We're going in and we're customizing what does it mean to deliver and be a project manager at this firm. And we're looking at all the systems that they have in place across their offices to ensure that everyone understands what the standard is for the firm. And then change management. This is a big one I was always interested in, like, how do you take a business idea and move it from concept to implementation? And that's what change management's really about.

B So I think the easy way to think about this one would be during the pandemic when firms had to adopt change very rapidly. That's change management. So the systems that were put in place from the hybrid work environment to I don't know, learning to operate on slack. These are all change management issues and how you implement them is kind of the interesting part. So what I've been doing with some of the firms that I've been working with is actually focused on ownership transitions. And really talking to the next generation leaders of the firm that are gonna be coming the next owners and figuring out Not only are they buying into the firm, but, like, how are they gonna manage the change that comes with that leadership shift from a roles and responsibilities perspective to slowly taking over responsibilities from the previous generation to stepping responsibilities that requires and then effectively continuing to lead the firm. I'm very proud that one of the clients I've been working with since 2020 just last week officially announced that they the 2 owners I've been working with are now a 100 the owners of the company, and I help them identify one of the partners and have been coaching them on all of the things they need to understand about business ownership and management and trying to navigate that process to get them to where they could do that. And then I'm gonna be coming back out for their retreat later this fall, which will be really exciting to celebrate this big milestone.

A I think you're, like, again, for me, and I know I already said this literally on this episode, but it's When I look at consultants right now in the the acquisition and murder space, it's so much on the technicalities of the process and the paperwork and the legalese of just transitioning that ownership and We we tend to leave the people out of that process, but, like, so much of what makes it successful after the transition is the people. So I'm glad that your focus on that, especially having gone through an acquisition myself and experienced You know, a rather poor, like, an an employee experience from a from an acquisition and transition standpoint. And and I can kind of see what's interesting is and and what's what's good about everything you're doing is they they all kind of stock on top of one another, right, because our from that change management and from that transition, it might open the doors to very specific business strategy topics that they need to tackle as well as what do various different pipelines to leadership look like? with with the firm. And that's something that I wish people would have talked to me about more about what what are the different growth opportunities in a firm.

B Yeah. No. You're absolutely right. I I mean, I'm very focused on each firm being its own ecosystem and I approach every firm as a design. Like I said, it's a design problem. So, like, I don't go in and and try to solve their problem by offering something that I am saying. This is this is how you do marketing or this is how you do talent fulfillment. It's way more inversed in that I'm trying to understand what exists and what the culture of their firm is.

B And then Listen to them on what they think the problem is and help them navigate that within the constraints of their existing firm. And so if they think that the problem is people aren't communicating, okay, let's start there and let's explore what that means and how it impacts other things. And that that actually led us into mentoring. It's always interesting. And I think you're right. I think a lot of these things are super interrelated.

A Have you ever found yourself in a position where the leadership doesn't believe your findings?

B I'm sure I have. I mean, yes, in one instance, I can think of one specific moment, it wasn't really necessarily a leadership group, but I definitely think there's probably, like, outliers in the group sometimes that maybe don't totally buy into what I'm saying.

A How do you navigate? that as a consultant then. I feel we we give so many different so much different feedback in terms of how to navigate for how do young architects navigate and find their voice? How do you navigate those conversations?

B Yeah. It's tough, and it's totally case by case. I think a conversation that I've had with my husband a few times is that I have to focus on the people that I am helping. So if if there are people in the group that are feeling supported to the work that I'm offering or believe in the work that I'm offering I have to focus on that population because knowing that I if I've even helped them even a small amount, most people who are working in firms are so appreciative to get even the smallest amount of help because they're feeling so neglected that that's a tremendous win. So I have to I do my best to try to win over the group by looking at the problem from all sides in moments where I felt resistance. I think I have to decide if it's, like, one person or if the, you know, firm isn't the right fit, Maybe they're not gonna buy into what I'm selling, and that's fine. I don't have a really good answer to this because it's so it's so specific to each situation, but I would say that I think I have to find the strength within myself most times to just keep going and believing in what I'm offering even if someone doesn't believe me or wants to challenge me on the thing that I'm offering because I know it to be true. I know the

A a fair assessment. I I feel like this is the leaders that I struggle with in architecture aren't good at self reflection. So often, they don't necessarily wanna hear what we have to tell them sometimes.

B I also don't Like, I would never go I don't know. I think it's how you present the information too. Like, you have to know going into the conversation if you feel like you're bringing loaded information into the room. And if you're gonna have people who object and thinking in advance. I mean, this is where my overthinking comes from is, like, who's gonna object and why, and how can I present this in a way that I can get some of their buy in on this, if not all.

A So you're coming up on we just celebrated our 3 year anniversary. with the launch of this season, and you're coming up on your 4 year anniversary as a solo entrepreneur. In what ways has your business shifted from when you started back in 2019? And and ultimately the because I like to double down on questions, where do you want it to head? in 2024.

B Ah, these are good questions. So I'm very excited about my 4 year anniversary, and I just decided, like, over the weekend that we're having, like, a cocktail or get together happy hour here in Raleigh. So if you're in Raleigh and you wanna celebrate we're gonna do something, I think, at the AIA North Carolina building, I would love to celebrate with you. And anyone that I don't see me, we can do something online virtually, but I think we should. I would love that because it just it has been such a process, like, starting from scratch and doing it by myself, like, it has felt like well, I don't know. So much of this has been done in isolation. And I, like, you know, people get to see the really great parts of it when I come out of my cave and I get to go to a pool conference. And I'm like, yay.

B Look. I'm facilitating this program or I'm speaking, but the bulk of it happens -- day to day. And I remember early on, Michael Bernard, who we had on the podcast, he's another consultant that, you know, I reached out to Early on and wanted advice from, and he spent an ally. And he said it's just like yoga and that it's a practice. You know, you have to practice this. get better at it. And that's exactly what I've been doing the past 4 years is I've been building self discipline on consistently showing up every day And at first, it can feel really overwhelming because you're, you know, as you're you're trying to build this idea you have and you have a 100 ideas and you're not sure where to start. And it's a process of repeatedly showing up, testing things out, and modifying it over time and just trying to keep tweaking it until it gets better.

B And I'm really proud of the growth process I've been on because a lot of it has been a mental game of overcoming that imposter syndrome, not letting the anxiety of, you know, you give up a paycheck. You stop having a salary. You don't know where money's gonna come from. That anxiety that comes with that learning how to navigate that and not let it stop you. All of that has really stretched me and it's been great because I feel so happy. I don't know that everybody would feel happy being an entrepreneur and feeling like you're dealing with your existential dread all the time and anxiety, but, like, I really enjoy it. Like, I feel like every time I challenge myself to keep going and not give up, then I have succeeded, even if it's not been perfect. And I keep hitting these, like, milestones where, like, there's like a definitive point where I'm like, okay, I know that I just gained something in how I'm either how I'm showing up or how I've met this moment and turned a corner.

B Like, I remember last fall, I decided to completely rework my finances. and to get in the weeds as much as I could to understand and learn about finances. I wanted to understand how to restructure my fee, how to restructure my contracts, how to build my pricing plan, how to put all of these things in place so that it was I didn't you know, I'm advising architects on a business standpoint, and I don't wanna do the things that I'm telling them they shouldn't be doing. So I shouldn't be making up my fee, and it shouldn't be arbitrary. So I had to come up with, like, my own strategy on how to do that for my business. And that that was really awesome because that tie my sunk into that, even though I was kinda, like, not stoked about it at the time, but, like, facing that difficult moment learning how to do that, is what allowed me to have a really good year this year. And so I am I think to answer your second question, where am I going? I'm on a trajectory to build a business for the next 30 years of my life, and that's That was always my vision when I started this. And now I feel like I actually have confidence that I am gonna be able to run that marathon.

B I wanted to build a business from scratch. I wanted to learn how to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to grow in this way and I'm gonna continue doing that. And I think next year, it's gonna be about finding even more ideally aligned clients that can continue to help me build in the direction that I'm trying to do or trying to build in the direction that I'm wanna grow because ultimately while I'm trying to create positive transformation at firms, what I'm trying to do in addition to that is to help enough firms that we ultimately start to shift our industry because there's gonna be enough case studies out there that demonstrate from a business standpoint that we can shift these things in practice, and we can quantify them and articulate them in a way that starts to model other directions that we could be running.

A So now I'm gonna ask you the question that every entrepreneur gets to isn't an architect. when you grow your business, do you want do you envision it being, like, are you gonna continue to grow as a solo entrepreneur? and invite other consultants to support you in your business, or do you imagine growing as a as a team? And, you know, if there are people interested in working with you either as a consultant or as somebody who's newly under the profession and Would love to be a part of what you're doing. How do they get in touch with you?

B That's a great question. So Another thing that happened last year was I started bringing people and help me because I realized solar entrepreneurship is not for me. I'm not the person that wants to be by myself. I'm the person that needs to be around people. I think that's actually what I miss the most about architecture and practice is I wish I still had my coworkers around me. Like, the people that you know, make up the community of the environment you work in. So I started bringing people in to help That's been a learning curve because that's also meant. I I need to bring in more revenue to support that, but that's exciting because we can also offer more.

B We can offer more services. We can offer more we can take on larger projects. We can diversify what we're doing. I'm also partnering with different consultants. So the answer is yes. I want to grow. I think I've always envisioned it as, like, essentially the same thing as a firm. Like, I want to have a studio, but instead of it being a studio focused on architecture.

B It's a studio focused on business, the business of architecture, and trying to help firms be more successful in their business operations, which means we can do a lot of really cool things And we can have you know, I think what would be really cool is to have different people who specialize in different things that are their experts in different areas that compliment each other. I think that would be fun, and I would enjoy building that. What

A advice do you have to give for someone who is interested in starting off on their own and might not be ready to step into entrepreneurship in the way that you have?

B Yeah. That's a good question. I think It's okay to take time to figure out what you wanna do. So if you're not totally sure what the business plan is, or you're still just trying to understand what entrepreneurship is, start small and take on either you could do a side project, or you could take a class or read a book or listen to a really cool podcast you can scale it down to be more accessible before you jump all in, but definitely understanding that when you do jump in, there are significant implications to that. And the number one is finance, and the number 2 is mental health. those are the two things that I think most entrepreneurs need to be ready to navigate. And so you can either Prepare by figuring out how your transition plan financially is gonna work or how you're gonna support your mental health when you get into position and make sure that you have a good support network around you. But I don't think that you have to go all in to be an entrepreneur, and I don't think you have to Have it all figured out at the start.

B Like, you can you can transition into this and still be successful and there's nothing wrong with that.

A What is your hope and vision for the future of the profession going forward?

B I am invested in this work because I want to see the people that are my age and in and around my age when they are in firm ownership and leadership positions that they're thinking about running their businesses in a very comprehensive way that considers the people that work for them, that they're invested in operationally, improving our financial model for our business structures so that it benefits both the people in their firm and the industry at large. that we're not turning a blind eye to these things that have held our industry back for a really long time, but we're actually advancing people into leadership that are invested in solving those problems and that every firm is working towards making our profession a place that new graduates and people starting out want to be in our field. They wanna be architects and they come to our industry because they know that they're gonna be supported and be able to do transformational work in their communities. Hi, disruptors. If you like the content from today's show, you can find all of our past is over on practice of architecture.com/ podcast.

A Be a part of the conversation by joining us, our speakers, and others in the community practice of architecture.com/community.

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A Thank you for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by the practice of Architect shirt. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.