Architecture, And: Using Research to tell the Story of Architecture

A Welcome to Practice Disrupted, a podcast where we find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. I'm your host, Evelyn Lee, an architect who spans tech as an angel investor, start up advisor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're a seasoned architect or just starting in the field, this Hello, disruptors. Welcome to this week's episode of Practice Disrupted. Today's guest, Kendall Nicholson, is a licensed educator, trained architectural designer, and an avid researcher. He works as a senior director of research, equity, and education at the Association of Collegiate Schools of Architecture or ACSA. He is a graduate of the School of Architecture at the University of Virginia and the Graduate School of Design at Harvard University. His design work, critical architectural practice, is focused on the confluence of race, architecture, and education.

A He's also a wonderful dad and friend. Thank you so much for being on our show, Kendall. I am so happy that we finally found time to get together. We like to start off our conversations with this icebreaker. So, obviously, we ran through your formal bio. We have your formal bio in the show notes. Is there anything interesting that you can share with us that our audience may not be able to find by Googling you?

B Well, thank you again for the invitation. I don't know how interesting it is, but a little known fact is that I've never played a full game of basketball. And so it's it's something that I share sometimes because I'm an African American male and for whatever reason I'm expected to be able to play basketball. I'm not expected to be able to play golf, but I'm expected to be able to play basketball. And so it always surprises people when they hear that I've never never played a full game of basketball. I'm terrible at it. So in lieu of that, I use running. Running is my stress reliever and it's, you know, it's my hobby.

A Can you bracket that for me? Like, so I could say that I've never played a full game because I was never in the game full time. That means you have played basketball. Like, what does that mean to have never played a full game?

B So I say a full game because I've never I mean, I've shot a basketball before, but I can't Okay.

A But you've, like, never played in an official scrimmage or anything?

B Yeah. I've never played a game, like, you know, on a court anywhere. A good friend of mine growing up played basketball all day every day, and he later, you know, went into the NBA. And so sometimes I would watch him but we never actually played a game because that was terrible and I hated it and so it never seemed to be one of those things. So I think maybe I've played a game of horse. Is that what it's called? Where you like shoot and you have to yeah. I think I've done that once.

A Okay. But you've never, like, actually played a game?

B Yeah. Like, I've never said

A like like teams that play against each other for any amount.

B Never.

A Or, like, or even sound like 1 on 1 sounds like maybe even.

B That's not my thing, and it's it's, it's just one of those things. Maybe maybe when I retire, I'll take up basketball.

A K. Speaking of retirement just kidding. Let's rewind it and and go all the way back. Maybe not to your early basketball days. So you are the senior director of research equity inclusion at ACSA or the Association of Collegiate Schools of Architecture. But you have a background in architecture, and, you know, we have this whole series on architecture and and people ending up in different careers. So can you kinda tell us a little bit about your journey and how you ended up where you are?

B Yeah. I'd be happy to. And I appreciate that you're you're taking that on as Architecture Plus or Architecture And because I think it's important for students, for faculty, for emerging professionals to know that there's a way to impact the built environment, even if it's not directly through designing buildings every day. And you know that, you know, quite well. So my background, I actually started at the University of Virginia studying architecture and really enjoyed that. And I took professional practice as an undergrad. So UVA has a 4 year pre professional program, and then they have an m mark. So I was in that pre professional program and I took professional practice with the m marks and I graduated and thought, you know what? If I'm gonna be really successful and really be able to call the shots and do the amazing work that I I wanna do, I need to pursue real estate development.

B So I graduated from UVA and decided to go to Georgetown to study real estate development. And that's where, I learned a lot about the way in which buildings are developed, projects and neighborhoods are developed, the financial pieces behind it. And I worked in real estate development for a little bit in Washington DC. And then I thought, well, I need to go back into architecture because I'm supposed to be able to wear both of these hats, you know? So I moved to Paris, France and worked for an architect there for a year, And that's where I realized I did not want to be a licensed architect. And I often say that if I had a different set of steps, the outcome could have been different. Right? Like if I were working in the US maybe, you know, it varies there are a bunch of variables there, but I decided I wanted, I did not want to be a licensed architect because I felt like it didn't allow me to use my natural gifts and talents, Like things that that are less effort for me and I feel like I do really well. And so I came back to the US and decided to teach architecture to grades 6 through 12 because I love school. I love school.

B If I could be a forever student, if they would just pay me a a minimal fee to just stay in school until retirement, I would totally do it. So I started to teach architecture to grade 6 through 12, and then I loved that. I then got a doctorate in education from Regent University, which is a small private Christian school, one that I don't put politically affiliate with, but they give a really great education, and I was, you know, was was happy to do that. Where I did a dissertation, I probably don't need to go into it, but about architectural values and the transfer between students and faculty. And so I graduated and I thought, what, why did I write this dissertation, this 100 plus page document on something so specific? Because I thought what job am I gonna land with this and sure enough, it was one of those God moments where the job at ACSA opened up and it was like, oh, this is perfect this they want somebody that is me and I think I can do it, you know, So that's how I became the director of research and information. And then to bring it back full circle, you know, I'm a mid career professional and decided that I wanted to know more about race and racism and other forms of injustice in a scholarly way. And so for me, that sent me back to school. So I just finished a degree a year ago, at Harvard's Graduate School of Design, a Master of Design Studies that focused on the inner the confluence of race, architecture, and education.

A That is amazing. And I am not going to run back your resume. I'll let our listeners try to figure out how many years you've actually spent in in school. Yeah. Some while working though. So I have a question for you. Prior to the role opening up at ACSA, was there anyone in that role previously, or are you the first to kind of step into that role?

B Yeah. No. There was, I have one predecessor, Lian Chang, and she did a phenomenal I mean, what she one of the things she's known for is this phenomenal missing 32%, graphic about women in the profession. It's on our website and it shows a female figure, ascending what looks like a staircase, but it's actually tied to numbers and statistics. Yeah. So, so I'm the 2nd person in this role.

A And can you help our listeners understand the importance of this role within the organization, and then what you're actually doing on, like, a day to day basis within the role.

B Yes. So as you said, I'm the senior director of research, equity and education, which means I try to, to find time and set the agenda on those 3 avenues, for ACSA. ACSA is an organization that leads architectural education to include the 175 ish programs and a 150 schools in the US and Canada and some programs internationally. And so with that, on a research from a research perspective, I mean, all of these things are tied together. Right? But from a research perspective, I'm looking at people, I'm looking at issues of representation, sometimes issues of economy, understanding salary, understanding licensure. So things that support data and data gathering among the Alliance organizations. From an equity perspective, I do the strategic planning around Equity and Justice. We just launched this ACSA Social Justice Shift to explain to our members that we're shifting from diversity to social and ecological justice.

B And then I do a lot of our internal review alongside the executive director of rig being a triad of of rigor, relationship, and relevancy. And so what I hope to do in this new part of my role is to help continue to help faculty figure out that triad in their curriculum and in their courses. I have had the pleasure of having, 3 to 4 research fellows that changed throughout the years. And so we'll be doing a call for ACSA research fellows, and they help me get and collect the data for, you know, many of the research projects that we do. And every day, like a day in the life of of me as regards the work, if you if you start at the top of the workday, includes looking at databases, publishing information for the public, responding to questions and concerns from both practitioners and faculty around stats, around where expertise lies and yeah, and then, you know, some of the administrative things that everybody needs to do.

A So you mentioned the Alliance organizations. I just want to make sure our listeners know who all that encompasses. Do you mind kind of listing those out for us?

B Yeah, no problem. So, the Architectural Alliance, includes ACSA, which is the Association of Collegiate Schools of Architecture, and our purview is as our architecture schools, AIAS, which is the American Institute of Architecture Students, their purview is the architecture student body. AIA, the American Institute of Architects, which largely handles the profession. NCARB, the National Council of Architectural Registration Boards, I believe it is. And they handle licensure and regulation of the profession. NOMA, so the National Organization of Minority Architects, which is a long standing organization that supports BIPOC practitioners and faculty and people in the built environment. And then NAB, the National Architectural Accreditation Board, and they're in charge of accreditation at architecture schools.

A The other thing that I wanted to go a little bit deeper on is this idea. Did you mention you're shifting diversity and equity into more social justice? I I feel like they equate social justice with politics, and why why are organizations getting more political these days? I guess, what would your response be to somebody who makes that inquiry of you?

B Yeah. I think that's a good question. And and I and I get it from time to time as well. I think my response or what I typically my my traditional approach is to know that social and ecological justice is for the betterment of everyone. And when I talk about diversity or cultural competency or implicit bias, what I'm talking about are goals or byproducts of shifting the way we understand how we interact as a culture. And so I think it's really important if we think about architects, I often describe architects as world makers or world builders, right? Like the intent, if we go back to even, I think John Ruskin in 1850 is quoted saying, we should design so that our buildings last forever. That's not the exact quote, but it's something along those lines. And so if we're literally building the world to be a permanent thing, that we need to make sure that we've accounted for everyone and the systems that are in play currently and historically have not done that.

A So, you know, a lot of the work that you do, the data and the research that you do, is available to the public. And it's just available on the AACSA website. Is there anything that you would like to share or resources that you would like to point to and even kind of highlight some of the findings that you found that maybe were were not surprising or some of the findings that you found out were more surprising than you anticipated?

B Yeah. So I think one of the most notable projects I've done in recent years has been the Where Are My People project. It actually started with Where Are the Women and then shifted to race where I did a 5 part series looking at the 5 major racial categories. Now we all know race is a social construct, but it does determine the ways in which people treat us, the opportunities and the access that we have. That's solely based on the way someone looks. So that being said, the Where My People series started with black in architecture, then went to Hispanic and Latinx, then went to Asian American and Pacific Islander, and then went to Native First Nations and Indigenous. And then I completed the series with Middle Eastern and North African. And if I were to give some version of highlights, I would say one major takeaway is that of the 150 plus schools that we have of architecture, you know, thinking accredited schools and programs, 1 third of the black population comes from the 7 HBCUs.

B So 7 schools, 7 out of those 150 plus are generating a third of the, the black population, which is pretty significant. And so once that finding came out, the Alliance organizations and large firms were able to recognize the impact that they could have by investing resources in whatever way, whether it be financial, whether it be time, whether it be access in HBCUs. So I think that was one great takeaway from that. And by HBCUs, I'm referring to Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Another takeaway from the series, if we were to scale back and I looked at the series from a little bit further distance, is the ways in which our understanding of the world manifests based on our race. And I think that's something that people who are often racialized or underrepresented or marginally historically have been marginalized. No, but it was an opportunity for me to articulate how that difference manifests. So, one such example would be, in the African American community.

B We talk about our ancestors and the way in which that inherited knowledge carries forth. And sometimes it's hard to, to bring that inherited knowledge into our work as design professionals. In the native and First Nations indigenous community, they talk about having elders and those elders again, imparting wisdom and having status and respect and how it's also difficult for them to push forward some of that wisdom into their work. And then there are similarities around the the common theme or the common thread for race and racism is the system of oppression. And so without getting too deep into an educational perspective, it's the idea that I, as a black man, need to be able to articulate and overcome some stereotypes, overcome some of the systems that are historical to be able to navigate in architecture. And the same would be true of Asian people. Right? Like that there are stereotypes about wealth or about intellect or about personality traits that they also need to overcome in order to be seen as an equal or not be asked, where are you from? Right? Like maybe you're just from Kansas. Maybe you're just from Florida, but people are asking you that because they looked at you and saw something and thought, here's a question I need to know.

B Like, here's something about this person that I I I would like to figure out, and that's not okay.

A Yeah. I didn't realize for the longest time, honestly, that that was not okay. I mean, I went to university undergrad in Missouri, and there are not a lot of people that look like me in Springfield, Missouri, and I would get that question a lot. Yeah. And I would be like, I don't from New Mexico. And they're like, no. No. Where are you where are you from? And I'm like, I don't know.

A I'm I'm American.

B You know, in research and my lived experience as a black man, it can be seen as a privilege to know where you're from. Like my history can't be traced in a way that will tell me exactly where I came from because I'm the grandson of a sharecropper, right? Like who's the grandson of a, or the son of a enslaved laborer. Those things about me have implications for how I understand the built environment. And that's what I think sometimes people didn't recognize, particularly before 2020. They didn't realize that the benefit of having a black person on staff was that they have a different set of heuristics, a different way of approaching problems. They have a different set of inherited knowledge that is, is based on something that has been passed down for generations that maybe they can't always fully articulate, but it's, it's different. But also American.

A Yeah. Is there ability for me as, as a young professional or even as a firm leader to take the findings from the surveys and consider how I would make or suggest changes within within the firm or within the organization to how we approach some things?

B So, yeah, I think I like to think of the Where Are My People series as an opener. It's a great starting place or maybe mid place, but it's not the end. It's saying if you're tentative or lukewarm about this equity stuff, or there are things that you wanna know but you don't necessarily have someone to ask, start with the Where Are My People series. And then that becomes a launching pad to have more conversations, you know, at your firm or with, with friends really, because the personal and professional in this realm, you know, kind of, kind of blend.

A We blend for better or for worse. We hang out that we hang out with our own people. So, okay. So, obviously, that's I feel like that covers the research and equity portion. Is there anything else that you're in the process of doing or you just finished that you would really like to share with our listeners?

B Yeah. So something else we just launched at ACSA. Well, 2 things, and they work in tandem. They're both still equity related. But one is we recently last year we announced our inaugural ACSA fellowship to advance equity in architecture, and that was awarded to to Cruz Garcia and Natalie Frankowski. And they recently they're coming to the, towards the end of their year and they've put together a website, which is acsajustice.org. And that website is about having access to material in architecture and around architecture. That website is a little more academic leaning.

B Like it has journal articles that you can access. It has other platforms like it you can go to that website and get to dark matter university or Is we is we're publishing an ACSA social justice shift, which is this larger, longer timeline of the work that we've been doing. And we did that in an effort to remain accountable to our members, to the public. You know, one of the things that is really important to me is the value of architecture to the public. And so I often ask people, and Evelyn, I've probably asked you this before, heard me say this, but I say it quite often. Like my question is, how would your grandmother define architecture? And if she can, or if she can't, or whatever definition comes out, we are responsible for it. Right? Like the vast majority of people in the United States at least are not, not going to encounter an architect, never have a need for an architect. And that's one of the things that I'd like to, to shift.

B For me, it's not about, I think we should have more architects. It's more about, I think our impact should be different. I think we should be pulling from different precedents. I think our knowledge set and our ability to work in the built environment could very easily be recognized by the public because everybody is in, whether you're outside or inside, you're usually in some proximity to something that's been designed, whether it's a big box historic church. Right? Like

A Why your grandmother? The

B grandmother is, I mean, I guess I could say grandfather, but the grandmother is, is someone that's close enough to you that you care about, but enough generations away that they'll have a different perspective. Right? Like if I were to say sister or brother or spouse, like it is not quite the same. But to give a little bit of distance but still be close. That's why I always say, how would your grandmother define it?

A Yeah. I actually don't think you've ever asked that question of me.

B Okay. Well, can I ask you now?

A Yeah. You can. And, like, as you were saying that, you know, like, I I don't know how how she would. But the the interesting thing about that is when I talk to my mom about what I do, and she talks about how I I went into architecture, she thinks that that artistic side of me is most attributed to my grandmother. However, I don't know what she would think of of architecture. She did go through the process of hiring an architect to design her last home. In my mind, she's always a bit of a a taste maker. She immigrated here from China.

A She escaped from China to Hong Kong. When the the communists came in, she wouldn't go into public or show her face unless she was, like, properly made up and and dressed up. And she very much instilled that in in me to kind of, you know, I guess in common terminology, like dress to impress, or like dress to be the the person you wanna be. Right. Right. And and that's how you should be showing up to the public. So I I feel like in that way, she she in her own mind was a bit of a taste maker, and I think she would actually have a lot to say about architecture in both a Chinese, like, mainland China, Hong Kong, and an an American context and the different places where she she lived in the world. But I unfortunately don't have the ability to ask that of her anymore.

B Yeah. I can't ask my grandmother anymore either. But I think, I mean, I think what's so interesting, at least to me, and maybe I'm the only one amused or interested in this question, but what's so interesting to me is that inside of architecture, we wordsmith that definition and we also simultaneously decide it can be anything. Like architecture can be water. Architecture can be timber and it can be technology and it can be anything really like architecture can be drawings on paper. And while I do believe that anything and everything is a stakeholder in the built environment, I think as far as the public is concerned, there should be some unified definition, right? Designing buildings or designing thing like, like it's even hard for me to come up with right now because as soon as I say something, I think I'm leaving somebody So anyway.

A No. And and I struggle with that because I am always constantly in my mind pushing architects to expand what it means to be an architect and what it means to practice architecture. And it does. It does. If you think about it, it begins to confuse, like, then well, then how do we define and, like, kind of put a pin on around what we do and who we are within our, our communities and all of that. And then I struggle because I was like, in order for us to build more buildings, we have to go beyond buildings.

B But I think that's interesting because I was having a conversation about climate justice and climate action, artificial intelligence, race, racism, and sexism, you know, all of the things that will alter the way architects understand their role. And I was having this conversation with a good friend of mine, Bailey Brown Mitchell, who is Assistant Professor at Oklahoma State University. And we I was finding I had a hard time finding all the words to say the value of an architect or architecture is not in their ability to craft construction documents. While it's a necessary like thing and it's a skill and it's regulated, that can't be what keeps architecture afloat. And she responded in so many words by saying, architects are meant to discern and edit. Like the job of the architect is to discern and edit. And I said to her, I'm like, that is the most beautifully put, I mean, you put it so beautifully, because I was using all these words to try to figure out what is it at the core of what an architect does. And so if you take away some of the the skills, what you should have 50 years in the future is someone who is using some tools to discern and make edits about what the built environment looks like.

B Whether that knowledge is narrowed towards the environment or it's narrowed towards people's experience and race and and sex. It's the discernment that is should be the the through line. But there are a lot of conversations about artificial intelligence, not only in schools, but in practice and how it affects one's responsible control, like in what liabilities they hold. But I think if you see your job as as discerning and editing, then it doesn't matter so much that upcodes is helping you generate the construction details and documents. Because your job is to discern which one is needed and to make edits.

A So I have a question for you. You, you said you just finished this degree, and you said you love school. If you could go back right now, what would you study?

B You know what? I might study either English or a foreign language. And the reason I say that is because I think it's important that we're able to articulate what it is our profession and the discipline does. And I find myself doing more and more writing. One of the things for me as a non traditional, let's say impact maker or someone in architecture that's that's not following the traditional path is I have a hard time defining myself. I could define myself as a researcher. I could define myself as a designer sometimes, and, you know, I can define myself as an essayist. But I think for me it would be fun to kind of hone those skills of articulating written word. That's just off the top of my head.

B It wouldn't be I'll I'll tell you, it wouldn't be anything that's like astronomy or like super it'd be something in the humanities.

A Like you wouldn't be an economist at all?

B That sounds interesting. But no, I think I, I think I like thinking about things that are lovely. That's like, that's, it's funny because that came out so easily. And then I'm like, what does that even mean? But it is, it's like, I wanna I wanna think about it.

A It's also interesting because I feel like some of the research that you're currently doing is not necessarily lovely in in the end.

B That is true.

A So if I'm a listener, be it, and our listeners tend to fall on the side of early to mid career professionals or individuals that have just stepped into leadership or are thinking of starting their own firm. What advice do you have for them with regards to your research and where we can continue to be more inclusive as designers going forward?

B Yeah, I think that's a great question. One thing I would say is to respect people's perspective and to trust them as experts in their own experience. And so you can say that, I mean, you could look inwardly and say, I need to trust myself as an expert of my own experience, but also in their interactions with people in regards to equity and justice. You have to trust that the truth that they are living and the truth of their experience is, is true. So that's one thing. I think the other thing would be to always, and this is bias of me to, to, to project, but is to always be thinking about the value of architecture to the public. So I'll say I like to think about, and similar to you, I like to think about Architecture Plus or Architecture And. And for me, architecture is, this architecture with a big A it's it's hospitals.

B It's like I said earlier, historic churches, but it also needs to be things that are on HGTV. And I know, I know some people will probably cringe, but I mean, honestly, if we think about how we communicate ourselves to the public, many people consider themselves designers by watching things like HGTV, by having some control over their interiors. And that's how their awareness of even the design disciplines related to the built environment is founded. And so I think continuing to broaden the scope is important.

A But then if we broaden the scope, how do we define what architects and architecture is?

B I think it's about that level of articulation. Right? So like in engineering, and I hate to make an engineering comparison because I feel like we do it all the time, but in engineering they have specialties and, you know, it's different to be a civil engineer than it is to be an electrical engineer. And in architecture, we have architecture. And we say architecture is a blend of art and science with a little bit of some other things that we can't quite tell you about. I think the name of the game is articulating what it is we do, and I think that can vary. So if someone hears you're an architect, they might say, Oh, can you design my house? But that may not really be what you do And that's okay. But I think we have to have some sort of collective way of articulating and defining.

A Yeah. I mean, that is, that's been interesting to to me too. My good friend, Tenille Bentonhausen, wrote a a book about career paths for a young black girl, and and she ended up becoming an an architect. We've we had her on the podcast earlier. And I had a mystery reader opportunity to go into my daughter's classroom and pick out a book and read it to them. And so I did, and then my daughter is, like, my mommy is an architect. She picks colors out, and she designs houses. And then I have to, like, come back and think about it.

A I was like, but but I actually don't do any of those things, so anymore. Yeah. But but that's what she sees as an architect, and I want to let her see that, as what architecture is. I think, you know, maybe when she gets a little older than 6, I'll kind of explain the architects the my broader definition of what it means to be an architect. But but for now, I'm okay with letting her live with that one.

B I love that. No. That's good.

A So one last question to kinda wrap things up. What is your wish for the future of the profession, and what can we do, or what do you think that we could do now that could have a longer impact on, on how people see the value of architecture in the future?

B Yeah. I think that's a great question. I think I would say people over product. I say that sometimes in some of my writing, but architecture as an education and architecture as the profession, it's very easy to prioritize product and production. I mean, the studio culture generally is a hyperbole of production. And so, and even, you know, when we take pictures of buildings, sometimes we wait for all the people to walk out, you know, like I just want the building. I don't want

A Literally, I literally you know, that theme that, like, I'm an architect. Yeah. Of course, all my vacation photos are pictures of buildings with no people. Yeah. So yeah.

B Which is I mean

A Thankfully, like, Adobe allows us to extract that. But yeah, sorry, go ahead.

B No, but I think, I think there's something to that and to reimagine, you know, so I published this little pamphlet about a year ago that reimagined the process of making architecture. And it started with the environment and then it kind of ended with craft and trusting expertise other than our own. And I'm including myself as a designer in that. And so I think one small thing we can do is to think about our role in the larger ecosystem of making architecture, making buildings and, and be okay with that changing. Like I think for us to push against the status quo and have something that is more justice and less diversity, that means we need to rethink the model that we're using. Yeah. And so my, my goal is in 30 to 40 years, architects and designers are valued for their knowledge about history, systems, and precedent. Like they're valued because they have a wealth of knowledge that is used to then help make futures.

A Hi, Disruptors. Thank you for joining us today on an episode of Practice Disrupted. If you like the content for today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practice of architecture.com/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining me, our speakers, and other disruptors in our community at practice of architecture.com/community. Our social media handle is practice of arch. That's practice of a r c h, we'd love to hear from you. So feel free to drop us a DM and say hello. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.