Architecture, And: Kate Aoki on Exhibition Design

A Welcome to Practice Disrupted, a podcast where we find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. I'm your host, Evelyn Li, an architect who spans tech as an angel investor, startup advisor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're a seasoned architect or just starting in the field, this podcast podcast is your gateway to think differently about the role architects play within our global community. Hello, disruptors. Welcome back to this week's episode of Practice Disrupted. What does it look like when a career weaves together fine arts, architecture, and a deep commitment to public space? My guest today is Kate Walkie, an architect who's charted a distinct path in exhibition and experience design. From an early foundation in textile design to shaping community centered environments in some of Dallas's most iconic cultural institutions. Kate has never taken the conventional route.

A She's worked across firms, museums, and now as a founding partner of Golden Egg Creative, she's redefining what it means to design for memory, meaning, and interaction. Her firm brings together architecture, interpretation, and themed entertainment to build immersive, intentional experiences rooted in place, people, and storytelling. She's doing it all while teaching the next generation of designers and raising a family complete with a myriad of animals, including a ball python named Mirabel. In this conversation, we talk about the tension between traditional practice and creative exploration, the value of starting small, and how Kate's winding path has helped her build a career that finally feels like the right fit. Let's dive in. Kate, welcome to the show. It's so nice and wonderful to have you here on practice disrupted.

B Yes, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm excited to talk to you.

A I'm really excited to talk to you about your career path, I think, well, I would like to say all architects are in the built environment space and experience space, but you have created kind of your own niche in exhibition and experience design, which I feel is actually a growing thing. And it's this idea of temporary or even semi permanent places for community to gather. When I was doing my work at Salesforce, you know, they have the annual Dreamforce conference, and it's kind of incredible how that all comes together. And that is only a small piece of the world that you are operating in these days. So I would love to start actually at the beginning of your story. Talk about your background, and we'll get up to your new company by the end of this.

B Yes. That sounds great. It's sort of been a long and winding path. And I think that in my previous life, I must have been a nomad because it's it's hard for me to sit in one spot for too long. So I come from a long line of artists and designers. So my father's side had a bunch of architects and artists in it. My great grandfather was a silk stitch artist in Japan. And then my grandfather, my uncle were both architects, then my dad was a painter before moving into more applied theatrical production and that kind of thing.

B My mother was also a painter, so it's something that's been in my DNA forever. So there was no question when I was a little kid that I was gonna pursue some some type of design and and art. I had always wanted to be an architect ever since I was a little bitty. And as I grew and got closer and closer to going to college, I think that, internally, I just knew that I didn't have the maturity level to deal with what architecture school would require of me at that time in my life. I wound up going to the Rhode Island School of Design and majoring in weaving and textile design. So my BFA is actually in textile design, which was amazing. The level of craft and skill that I learned from that and just the way to think about art and craft in relationship to each other was awesome. It it has sort of guided me in bits and pieces sometimes more intensely than others, but in the way I think about my approach to process when it comes to designing, it sort of set a really nice baseline for how I tend to think about design.

B But I graduated not wanting to work in a mill knowing that I was not going to be cut out for a life as an artist either, and so I traveled and just sort of lived life for a little while. I worked in an art gallery, lived in Hawaii. I lived in Boston.

A What's interesting to me about your story is you say that you're not mature enough to kind of step into these roles or you're not you weren't ready to step into these roles. And I feel like you're actually making more mature decisions about finding yourself that I wish I taking your time for discovery earlier in my career that I just didn't do because I just followed the, the path, I guess. So I actually see that as a much more mature decision making process than than just staying on the course. But

B That's very gracious reading of it. I mean, it's hard to say in retrospect, you know, because I I there are many times that I look back and I feel like I did wind up in architecture school eventually, you know, so I got it together enough to to do it, and I've been successful. It but it's hard to say too, like, gosh. I feel like now I'm older, and I wish that I had started a lot of this earlier. You know? So it's hard to it's hard to sort of look back and say that you should have done one thing or the other because I hear what you're saying. I had a great time. At the same time, I'm like, gosh. I really put a lot of my career making on hold.

B I ended up having kids later because of it. You know? There was just a bunch of things that sort of happened later that maybe would have been better. I don't know. It's it's impossible to know. I had a really good time. I'm not gonna say that I didn't. And I do think that, you know, going out and exploring the world just unencumbered of any career greater career aspiration at that time was it was helpful. You know, it sort of gave me a perspective on life that has been useful also.

A Well, as somebody who, like, stayed the path and also had kids later in life, I guess, you know, they're a point taken.

B Yeah,

A we never know how we're going to like, we never know where the career path and the journey is gonna take us. So I'm so sorry to have interrupted yours.

B No, not at all.

A Traveling the world.

B Yes. Which was super fun. And then I came back to Dallas, which is where I'm from, and needed to do something. You know, I I did need to start, like, getting things in order. And so I first went to work for my dad who I love my dad so much. I really admire him as a business professional, and I am glad that I did not continue to work with him. It was a good thing to sort of, you know, land back home and and make a little money, but, it it didn't work out maybe the way it I had envisioned it. So I saw an opening at the Dallas Museum Of Art and growing up in Dallas.

B It was somewhere that I had always visited, you know, and admired and museums were something that I was drawn to. It was as a coordinator in the audio visual department. So it wasn't even directly related to design It was just sort of like my foot in the door for what was going to be the start of a larger journey, you know into the world of museums So I stayed there for a couple of years and actually the job that I had for the the last the immediate last four years as exhibition designer opened up. And I immediately applied for it and didn't get it because I wasn't I didn't have the requisite experience, skill, all that stuff. It was one of those things where, like, you know, if you just had a couple more years or this degree under your belt, then you'd be a shoo in. It was one of those things, and I was so disappointed. And I had met my husband and was dating him at the time, we met at the museum. And I was like, you know, I just I I maybe I ought to go back to architecture school.

B And he said, you know, you talk about that all the time. You should just do it. And I did not realize how often it came up in conversation. So I was like, you know what? Yeah. You're right. It was we were just starting to, I guess, sort of ease out of the the recession. This is in 02/2008. And so I applied to architecture school.

B I applied to a few, around the country and wound up at UT Arlington, which was really great actually because it was immediately plugged me into the network of architecture in the city. I did a the Path a program, which is for students who it's a graduate degree for students who have a undergraduate degree other than architecture. So I did that in March, and I graduated, and I got a job right out of school, and that was sort of that was it. I was in. And so that's how I became an architect.

A So that comes out a very specific path. I always say that when you're going through architecture school, they say you can apply your learning and your background to so many different things. But I feel like it put the the truth of it is when you graduate, you're kind of on this very linear path. So how did you find your way back to exhibit design? And did you know, to what extent did you actually test out traditional practice and how did or didn't that work for you?

B So it's sort of a two pronged approach to practice. When I graduated, I was not expecting to do anything other than traditional architecture. You know? So I went in with that mindset. And I also immediately joined the AIA because it was for all graduating students. It was a free, I don't know, like, three years membership or something. It was a it was a generous membership. Maybe it was just a year. Anyway, I don't remember, but I took advantage of it because I knew that for me, networking was how I was going to get a a job.

B Like, my my portfolio was decent, but I I did feel like I had some good experience life experience behind me that would be valuable. So I, again, I entered into the profession thinking that that was just where I would be. I would work my way up to principal and, you know, work in a traditional practice. I did work in four different firms over the course of ten years. The last one being the one where I was the longest and the one that I just really loved, DSU and Associates. And their values really fit with mine. They pursued the kind of projects that I was interested in, which was really sort of community focused civic projects, smaller scale. Bob MacFessel, the principal, really would pursue work that he found interesting as much as he was able to, you know, within realistically needing to run a firm and and earn money.

B And I was not planning to leave that firm. I was able to grow. He really nurtured growth and my involvement with the AIA, which also continued to to develop sort of simultaneously. But in the back of my mind, all the way through school leading up to my reentry into the DMA space, I always thought, you know, that head of exhibition design, if that were to ever open up again as a career, as a job possibility, would I would I go for it? I didn't think that it ever would, and then sure enough, it did. And that was in 2020, and I saw it. And it was one of those things, like, I have to apply for this again. I'm just for curiosity's sake, if nothing else. But the thing that was also so appealing about it is that it combines the love that I have for the fine arts with architecture and applied design.

B So that was what got me back into thinking about applying for that job, so I did. And I gave it everything I had. It was during COVID, so every all of the interviewing was virtual. I had to, like, make a portfolio presentation in a film format. You know? Yeah. It was which was also kind of fun.

A At a time where they don't know the future of people coming back to their in person spaces, and what what is that going to do for this position as well?

B Yep. I know. And it's weird because they had always had a culture of of having, of course, like everybody else meetings in person, five day work weeks, all that stuff. And so everything, again, like the rest of working America and the working world was sent to the virtual space. So it was it was kind of a weird interview process, but I wound up getting the job. And I went to tell my boss that I was going to resign, that it was not because I did not like working at that firm, but it was something that I felt really aligned with my what I was best at and what I was passionate about. And he said, you know, I would normally try to talk to you out of it, but it's that's a really cool job. So I'm not he said, I'm just not gonna bother trying.

B But there will always be a desk waiting for you if you wanna come back.

A Oh, that's amazing.

B Which is incredibly amazing. I actually rent a desk in the office now. So in a way, I have gone back, but that takes us up through the DMA. And while I was there, I I made some really incredible connections with the two women who are now my partners. And I think what I learned in my experience there is that I love working with the community. I like serving that sort of bigger societal. I think that it's crucial that that community and and people have access to fine art and that they have the opportunity to explore it on their own and start to develop a relationship with it even if they thought that they never had one. But I don't know that I have the stomach for nonprofit work.

B That's basically what I determined is that I don't do well with bureaucracy. You know? And a museum, we are partially owned by the city. The DMA is partially owned by the city, and there's just you know? It's a nonprofit. It's it's hard. You know? There's no bottom line. Everybody is working towards good good intentions, but, I think the culture was I after four years, I think that my partners and I decided that we just would probably be able to pursue our own goals faster if we did it on our own. So we just started talking over the course of the last year about it and realized that we were all working towards the same thing. We wanted to do the same thing through design and interpretation, and so that's how we wound up forming Golden Egg.

A Thank you for that story. What I love about your story is that you applied and you were a part of DMA much earlier on in your career. You found your way back to what was your dream job. And I think at the time, but it's also a story of growth, having realized, having spent some time there and realizing that even though it's been a very long pursuit for you, that it's it's not gonna take you to where you ultimately wanna be. And you talked a little bit about that struggle. Was there any part in you that considered just going back to DSGN because it's so much easier than building your own thing?

B Absolutely. Yes. There was. And, again, I think that I would have had a perfectly satisfactory career, but starting my own practice, whatever that was going to be, had also always been something after I graduated from architecture school that I wondered if I could pursue. The timing never felt right. As much as I love architecture and what it can be and what it can do, it was always still missing that link to fine art or the art space in general and not necessarily even just fine art. But this felt like sort of like, when I got the job at the DMA, I felt like I was putting on a pair of shoes that fit perfectly. You know? Like, this is the type of work that fits.

B This is what I've always been meant for. So the work itself, I think, is what I had landed in that I felt passionate about, that I could continue with. So it was kind of scary to go off on my own. Luckily, though, again, I have a very supportive husband, the same one who encouraged me to go to architecture school, was also like, if this is the right time, then we can make this work. And it felt like the right time more or less, for my partners as well. And it just was one of those sort of it was written in the stars kind of thing, you know, without being overly dramatic about it where it was like, if we're gonna do this, now is the time. So let's try it out. And so we just decided to go for it.

B And, you know, I think that if it doesn't work out, I don't expect it not to, but I'll figure I'll figure out what to do next. You know? And so far, I think that we're entering into a space in a really good time for it. Like you were saying at at the beginning, I think experience is something that people are looking for more than anything right now. And so we're happy to be a part of that.

A Enjoying the show? Join a community of fellow disruptors at practiceofarchitecture.com/community. Your membership helps support the production of this podcast, Practice Disrupted, and funds the creation of more resources for all of you. Looking forward to growing together. Join us today at practiceofarchitecture.com/community. So for those of the listeners that don't necessarily know what experiences design is or ex exhibition design. So I think obviously they can draw some conclusions right from from your background working at the Dallas Museum of Art or the DMA. How would you define what what it is that you do?

B Well, it's and that's a really hard question, actually, because, technically, I mean, you could consider architecture experience design. You know, you are designing spaces in which people interact, and they come in and they have an experience, whether it's going to the dentist or going to an art museum. I think that what makes it different is the intentionality of the experience that we are designing and the stakeholders that we work within our clients who, you know, rather than having sort of a broad view of what experience is, it's it's targeting a really specific type of interaction. So, certainly, for, like, art museums, then we're building spaces around a themed concept. You know? Like, we did a show on impressionism. So we're, you know, creating our spaces to support the central idea of the site of whatever the curator is trying to say about these paintings. Right? So we we will design the walls and the circulation in a specific way. We will choose the colors and the lighting in a very specific way, the the font choice that we use on the labels.

B You know? All of those things sort of support a larger narrative for this very particular moment that people will have for maybe, say, an hour or two. And I think that that's kind of at the root of it, what we wanna bring to the table as rather than sort of no matter what the experiences that we are trying to design, we always have the community and the visitor as the impetus, as the, like, launching point. So we are building these experiences for them and the accessibility of that. So for us, experience really usually is going to sit around some kind of cultural moment and cultural experience. So we're not we're not going into, like, the trade show space or that kind of experience. We're talking more sort of, like, anything, again, from, like, an impressionism show to we're working with a couple of educators right now on some activities for kids that teach them about careers in aerospace and designing around that. So, yeah, it's a super fun project. We're so excited about it.

B But it needs to be mobile and transportable. So figuring out, you know, sort of how do we design how do we create space for something like that? And it involves architecture. It involves like, one of my partners came from themed entertainment, so that's actually a huge asset. And then my other partner works in interpretation. She's an interpretation specialist, so she sort of develops the activities and the words that tie the relationship that tie together the visitor and the activity. So I don't know if that is a true answer to your question about what is experience design, but that's what it is for us.

A Experience design is is very broad. So there are those the pop up trade shows, which I would say is kind of the lower touch point. Right? I also think it's been interesting to see how companies kind of evolve experience design to, like, there's this whole movement towards lifestyle and experience and a lot of different industries. Right. And and it's like, I'm not paying for a thing anymore. I'm paying for the experience and the memory of having experienced that. And that is the, that is kind of the takeaway. So I I feel like it's definitely a a growing field.

A So it's been interesting to understand kind of where your niche or where you want to kinda draw the boundaries of where you want to be and then and how you personally interpret that.

B Yeah. We entered the field at a really good time, so I'm excited about that. I'm hoping that it's a growing field that continues to grow at least until I retire, but so far has been really fun to work in and that a lot of architects as I talk to them, have been really receptive to also because, like you're saying, I think it's something that more and more clients want to integrate somehow into their projects. We don't wanna just be in museums. We would love to be in hospitals or libraries or even hotels. You know, there's sort of an opportunity in so many of these new projects now.

A Yeah. And for me, it's a combination of architecture and interiors and even, like, branding. When you think about the older architects who are able to do everything from designing the furniture and the space, you know, and the homes that they design, I feel like a lot of architects think about like, I wanna design the entire experience. And a lot of what they're doing is actually write corn shell and kind of leaving, leaving the interiors to the interior designer. For me, it's just interesting because it's it's kind of all of the trades coming together and you're designing down to just another level of detail that I feel like architects often want to design to, but none of them don't necessarily have the opportunity to in many ways.

B Well and it's it's more specialized, which I realized once I did start working at the DMA as an exhibition designer. You know, I came in as an architect, and it's one of those things that you think as an architect, you know what exhibition design is and what it means. But it's a much more at least in the art museum space, you know, I have not worked in a zoo or or or that, you know, a children's museum or anything like that. But it's a much more technical field than I think a lot of architects would assume, which I can speak from experience having, you know, done it myself and then worked with other architects who've designed exhibitions for us also. You know? It's just a it requires a level of knowledge that you wouldn't think of because you don't know. You don't know until you're in it. So it's, yeah, it's been interesting.

A I didn't mean to undercut what you're you're doing. I I just feel like we design for how people use spaces. But in the end, there's only so much we can do to encourage the use of that space. I feel like when you build an experience into this space, you're building all the way down to the core of exactly how you want this space to be interpreted and moved through. And like you said, lighting acoustics, I'm sure come comes into it. I feel like architects build spaces in the hopes that they get certain experiences out of them, or people experience it in a certain way. But I think you actually have a a much not a heavier hand, but you a much more guided approach to what that experience ultimately is in the end.

B Well, it's a nice synthesis of spaces that, yeah, have been architecturally designed and that we can come in and intervene. As an architect, you can't do everything. There's just not time and there's just not money. So Right.

A Yes. We all know that.

B Yes. Absolutely. As much as we would wish that is not so. So, yeah, I I hear what you're saying. You know, hopefully, we're reciprocating each other's sort of building off each other's work.

A So people are listening and they're like, oh, I'm really interested in experience design and maybe they're just wrapping up their architecture degree. What is the next good touch point for them if they are interested in exploring a broader career that might include experience design?

B I feel very fortunate to practice in a time where people aren't expected necessarily in most places anymore to go and devote their entire lives to one company and one path. There's just too many options now, and some people do, and I think that's great. I don't mean that as a judgment, but, you know, for people who do wanna try out different avenues, I think that this is a a really lucky time to be able to do that. So I think that it has to start so much earlier than than anybody thinks. It's not like you graduated, then you go start looking for a job. You know? You really start thinking about these things in at least your last year and sort of crafting your portfolio around it, going and exploring. I think that I just think that networking is huge and talking to people that you don't know, going to mentorship events or something, you know, where you can really start to then make those connections, go to a museum and ask who the exhibition designer is if they would have time for a cup of coffee. You know, I think going out and talking to those people and saying like, hey.

B I'm gonna be free over a winter break. Could I just come in and even earn $200 a week doing something for you so that you could really understand what's going on around you? It's sometimes not even the work itself, but understanding how the whole thing functions that you don't know until you can get into that that area into the building to do it. So I think that practical experience is key and putting yourself out there and asking people for that experience. A lot of times, they're gonna say yes. Even if it's stuffing envelopes over a weekend, then you just hang out and ask them what it's like. That's that's the way to know whether it's for you or not. And as much as people have the time to be able to go out and do that kind of thing, that's the best way to do it.

A I think that's an incredible way to not only experience design, but I think explore and kind of even prototype or test, right, other pathways as well. So you talked a little bit about kind of your hopes and dreams for for Golden Egg going into it. Do you want to stay small? Do you wanna grow? What is the future of success look like for Golden Egg? And I know you're maybe three months in at this point. So

B Well, yeah, we're supposed to be talking about, like, our goals and what we expect in the next two months versus the next two years, etcetera. I think that this might sound naive, but none of us wanna lose that sort of that core mission of serving the community and putting the visitor first and and the visitor experience and allowing them the space and the opportunity to connect with whatever experience they're having. So that being said, there are realities to, you know, how much work that means we can take on at any given time while still being a functional company, economically speaking. You know? I would like to stay small in terms of, like, not having too much staff. You know? I don't know that we aspire to be a global corporation or anything like that. I don't know that any of us have that kind of vision in mind. But, certainly, you know, a healthy company where we are able to at least choose the projects that we can align ourselves to as much as possible, where we don't have to do anything that we wouldn't normally do just to earn a living. Again, I know how naive that sounds.

B But, you know, if we can seek out clients and they seek us out because we align from a value standpoint, then, ideally, that's that's what we would like to be. And maybe that means that we grow to a company of five or 10, and maybe that means we grow to a company of 28 to 50. I I don't know yet.

A And then finally, just because we do obviously have architects that are listening that are in the museum space or in, you know, doing buildings in the public area, you work with architects often. So who do you find as your client? Is it usually, do you go direct to with the city or are you working in partnership with architects? How are you finding those clients these days? And if they're interested in working with you, for instance, what is the best way to get in touch with you?

B Well, we have our website goldenegg.group that we are, at this specific moment, revamping our colors on. So if you go and you get a in progress note, just know that that is very temporary, but that does have our contact information on there to get in touch with us. We are in the process of getting our certifications for a small women owned business kind of stuff, which I think will help us with Citi. I I mean, I would like us to plug into the the Citi opportunities because I would love to get in on some of those projects. But right now, we're talking to the architects we know is and coming on as specialized consultants, things like that. And then, you know, sort of working with the network we have already in terms of who we know that that's already working in the space who might need our services as well. So, you know, we've been lucky to be supported by a couple of our amazing just peers in the field who either don't do this kind of work and say, hey. You should get in touch with Golden Egg or who don't maybe have time to take on this work themselves.

B So we've been really lucky so far to to roll out of the gate with a couple of really great clients, but we're always looking to work with others. So, yeah, I think that our website is probably the best way to get in touch with us, but we also have a LinkedIn and an Instagram.

A Hi, disruptors. Thank you for joining us today on an episode of Practice Disrupted. If you like the content for today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practiceofarchitecture.com/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining me, our speakers, and other disruptors in our community at practiceofarchitecture.com/community. Our social media handle is practice of arch. That's practice of a r c h. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to drop us a DM and say hello. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.