Telling Architecture's Story Differently

A Welcome to Practice Disrupted, a podcast exploring how architects can build better businesses, embrace emerging technology, and create more sustainable, fulfilling practices. I'm your host, Evelyn Lee, architect, angel investor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're running a firm, starting your career, or reimagining what's possible, this podcast challenges you to think differently about the future of architecture. This episode is brought to you by Gelt. Firm owners, are you overpaying on taxes? I use Gelt for my business and saved over $10,000 in year one. Visit joingelt.com and mention Practice of Architecture for 10% off your first year. Hello, disruptors. Welcome to this week's episode episode of Practice Disrupted.

A Today we're exploring what happens when architects start telling their story differently, not through polished portfolios or award submissions or beautiful pictures on their website, but through short-form video, personal narrative, and radical vulnerability. Gabriella Bermea is a senior associate at Perkins Eastman, a 2024 AIA Young Architects Award recipient, and an Austin Woman Changemaker named a Trend Disruptor. But what drew me to this conversation is what she's building outside the studio, a growing social media presence as a first-generation architect sharing the unfiltered truth about what it takes to make it in this profession. Gabby grew up in Eagle Pass, a small town on the Texas-Mexico border where careers were inherited, not discovered. She didn't know what an architect was. She was told in school to consider something else. She took 16 ARE exams, 10 of which she failed, and still she became the first person in her graduating class to get licensed. Now she's using that story, all of it, to reach the students and emerging professionals who don't see themselves reflected in the profession's traditional narrative.

A She's demystifying architecture one video at a time, proving that your background isn't a disadvantage, it's a lens that makes you powerful. We talk about why she started creating content, what resonates with her audience, how firms should think differently about personal brands, and what it means to tell the story of architecture in a way that actually reaches people. Let's dive in. Hi, Gabby. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Thank you for joining us today.

B Thanks for having me, Evelyn. I'm so excited to be here.

A I was really interested in bringing you on because what you're doing around storytelling and architecture, and not just storytelling for potential clients, but ultimately recently storytelling for students and kind of up-and-coming, I guess we would classify them as emerging professionals in the AIA, about what it's like to move from even newly outta schools, 1 to 2 years into becoming a project manager. But before we dive into all of that, why don't we start off a little bit about your history? Tell us where you're from, why are you an architect, and why you love what you do?

C Yeah, so, As you know, I'm a border kid, so I grew up on the border between Texas and Mexico in a small town called Eagle Pass, Texas. Finding more and more border kids together, we wave our border flags so high. It was really a city where, you know, careers were inherited, not necessarily discovered. So my dad did work with the power company and my mom was a teacher. So for the longest time, that's what I thought. I either wanted to be an engineer or a teacher because that's what I was exposed to. I wish I could say I dreamt of being an architect, but It wasn't the case for me. It wasn't until I really went to a STEM high school and I was exposed to a drafting class.

B And, you know, in that we were being taught by an industrial engineer. So, it's not even like we were being exposed to capital-A architecture, but what I loved the most was how cohesive our team was. So, I was the only girl in the class for 2 years, and then 1 year there was another woman who was in our class, which is awesome. But there was so much camaraderie and care. Like, we all went through it together. We were all drafting on our tables together, and I loved that environment to where I don't feel like it's all on my shoulders, but it is a team, right? So, when I went to architecture school, as you can imagine, to go away from group work where it was almost entirely on your own, I struggled so, so hard. And, you know, I was told multiple times, "Maybe you should consider something else." And, you know, being now a professional, I totally get why, because in all honesty, I did not know what I was doing that first or second year. But, there's that, like, Latina resiliency come back in you, and I find a lot of mutual people who feel the same way that, "Yes, you're going to tell me no, but I'll take that with a grain of salt." and use it as my power to move forward.

B That kind of took me to second year where everyone said, you know, raise your hand if you want to be a licensed architect. And I was the only person in my class to not raise my hand because I was pretty burnt out at that point and knew, you know, I'm just going to get my degree and I'm going to go to law school and join, you know, a friend of mine who was in, who was in, who was on that pathway, who was in pre-law. And I was in, you know, student government. I was pretty well set on that path. Forget it. Sure enough, I land a Google ad with Stantec here in Austin, previously SHW Group.. And I fell in love with not only, you know, the corporate environment, but this mission to do work in schools. And suddenly it all came together for me.

B I was like, wow, the teamwork is back. That is what it's really about. I got to, you know, one of my first projects was going into an interview, was prepping for an interview. Another one was a new high school, which now, you know, funny enough, you fast forward 10 years, my expertise is in those, that high school environment and career and technology. So it's nice to see all those pieces come together. Fast forward after that second year of me saying, heck no, I don't want to do this. I was the first person in my graduating class to actually become licensed. And I attribute that a lot to being able to join my local AIA chapter.

B I got straight into Emerging Professionals, straight into Latinos in Architecture, shout out to our LEA chapters. And that was the motivation for me to see, hey, being an architect means a lot in this profession. You know, you need it not only to establish trust, but you need it for the longevity of your career, whether or not you stay in traditional architecture as a project architect or as a design architect, or you pivot to project management and to business development, that career tool is yours. That is your trust mark. So, I'm really grateful to have kept through that. I think my story now being at Perkins Eastman, one of the firms that like I had long used as a precedent study, to now be in that level of team has been something that, you know, border kid me, 12-year-old, 10-year-old Gabby would've been like blown away because I didn't even know what an architect was at the time. So, You know, I'm grateful for these refiners that have came into my life in education, in professional organizations, and allowed me to be in this space. But, you know, we're just getting started.

B I'm so excited.

A So, you've done tremendous things. And I mean, definitely, I feel like a lot of my friends that I have brought on here is obviously we've met through some AIA connection and inevitably, but it's Gabby is one of those people that like, I think always gets volunteered for everything, but also we're just like, how much, how many more things can we really put on her plate? Because she's doing so much already. So thank you for all you do, like all the volunteer hours that you give, not only to the AIA, but to local efforts as well. And in fact, in Austin, you were named as a woman changemaker and as a trend disruptor. So talk about what it means to finally find a system that works for you, that you love being on, but then being called this trend disruptor.

B I'm really grateful to have gotten professional recognitions in in really great ways pretty early on in my career. But one thing that I, I kind of focus on and what I love about that trend disruptor role, because they— we didn't know what we were applying for. You just put your name in and they're like, okay, great, they'll figure out where it best fits. And Austin Woman Magazine, I was really grateful they put me in that trend disruptor category because I really hope to be that, not just for our profession, but how practice is. Because just because I've made it, just had a really great time in the profession and made it in a, in a recognition sense, it doesn't mean that the system's healthy for everyone. And I think there's a lot of work that still has to be done as far as bringing people into a profession that is actually welcoming, that people want to be a part of. You know, you, like me, spend a lot of time in ACE and a lot of time with high school mentorship. And there came a point to where, you know, in my own career, I was being told, you just, you know, why don't you get it? You just need to stay still.

B Like, just stay still and pay your dues and keep going forward. And there's a value to that. But if you tell yourself, you know, there's grit, there's timing, and there's mentors, but too many talented people in our profession don't get the same access as others who just benefit from right time, right place, right time. And I think that currently our profession tells a really narrow story in awards and buildings and in prestige that is elevated for other architects. But when it comes to the people who hear from us, there needs to be a real story of resilience, process and community impact. And I think those who are involved in the awards writing space or the nomination spaces can see that, but that's something that is broader that can really be more, you know, less of a lottery of who we find is the best of the best and more of a pathway to help people see that.

A So one of the things that you've done is you've become a lot more visible on social media channels to tell that story. We have this wide range of people who may or may not be on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok. All the various different social media channels. But I was telling Gabby at the top of the— before we hit record, whenever I'm on the treadmill, I tend to scan through TikTok or Instagram Reels. And I've been seeing a lot more, just definitely Gen Z, show up talking about what is the reality of architecture studio culture. And then I also saw Gabby showing up talking about what it means to be an architect to Big Sis. So you seem You just talked about the narrow story that we're telling, and I think there's two sides of that. There's the narrow story of what students understand about practice before they're actually in practice.

A And then there's also the narrow story of the pretty pictures versus the community we're trying to actually build from a public or owner or, you know, what is the external story that we're trying to tell? Can you talk a little bit about those two stories and the lens that you're trying to raise and elevate that through?

B Yeah, definitely. Funny you mentioned the Architect Big Sis. So that's something that has really resonated with the Instagram community almost more so than TikTok because I'm trying to build, build that up. But really that came from, you know, what are the questions I had before I was able to get into the profession? And then there's a lot of students who are, I mean, so bold, they will just reach out to the DMs and say, hey, answer this for me, please, because how do I get a job? Right. And those kind of questions are things that, You know, yeah, absolutely. And let me help you with that question. And when you get enough of the same ones, you start to think, okay, when I was 19, if I was 19 and needing this, you know, 10, 11 years ago, someone else needs it now. And, you know, being able to do that and then leverage the amazing other architects in the community to say, you know, hey, here's my piece of advice.

B If you want to get hired in Chicago, if you want to get hired in Houston, and You know, leveraging that to showcase to the student population in particular has been so, so underrated. And I think I've really been able to find a community in that of other people who are motivated to find success in it. When it comes to talking to those who are not architects, to the broader public, I think that's really another phase into what this, what this energy looks like. You know, that started with a professional degrees conversation, which is really the first video that got that traction that brought in a lot of people because you have parents who are saying, saying, hey, my student is about to go into a professional degree, what does this mean for them? And you're like, no panic, no panic, most of our degrees are not over $100,000. However, here are things that we need to keep an eye on. But it's, you know, you start to look at it in the broader public in that way when it comes to education, when it comes to experience, and when it comes to exams. Now, will it always be that way? No. But if you want to grow public understanding, they have to know what our process looks like, in my opinion.

B You know, I would have an understanding of, hey, what What does early-on sketching and design look like? What does a construction document set look like? And then you have people who are like the construction manager, hey, come along with me for a 5:00 AM day at work. Like, then you can lead them to those portfolios and those profiles to see the full building experience. But, you know, I think just being out there and having a very tangible story to say, hey, yeah, some days I'm stressed, some days I get to travel a lot, and other times I really get the chance to, to connect with communities. And first and foremost, like, that's what I want to share. The most of, because there has to be a reason people want to join architecture. And I was seeing so much content out there that was just saying architecture corporate is the worst and we're always working just as much as you are in studio. And I thought there was a need for some positive reinforcement there that, hey, you can have a sustainable career, whether it is, you know, in the corporate environment, in the sole practitioner, if you decide not even practice architecture and go into a completely different field, your degree is So flexible, you now have these unique skills that can make you successful anywhere that you are.

A So my next question, maybe it's an obvious question, maybe it's not, is why video and why Reels?

B Yeah, it's so funny because like I have, I was looking before our conversation, I have a notes here from right after the YAF annual meeting.

A YAF stands for Young Architects Forum for those. Yes. Yeah.

B Yeah, thanks, Evelyn. With the Young Architects Forum, which is the first time I've ever been in an environment that was that charged, I had notes on my phone that said content ideas for 2023. And really that came out of, you know, the conversations in the communications work group. We were talking about storytelling from all these different angles, and it really was just a matter of when do I actually take the leap to share things on social media? So like there was some attempts at carousels, which are, you know, the posts that you can swipe through. And then, you know, came through video content. And I just did, hey, I'm going to do a Lessons at 30 and just started doing that at this, actually, June of last year, almost a year through that. And that turned into a whole slew of, you know, comments. Hey, I wish I would have known these things.

B Hey, can you talk about your job a little bit more? Can you talk about what an architect is, what an architect does? And, you know, for those who are in content creation in any kind of way, it's finding what sticks, right? So, you, you're like sticking pasta on a wall. Okay, sure. Let's go ahead and do a video about that. Let's do a video about licensing. Jurisdictions. Okay, and then you see some stuff that picks up more than others. And, you know, as you're going through this, people really resonate with being able to see a face, especially in this AI-generated content flux that we seem to be in, where you see things like Sora AI being shared everywhere. People want to see an opportunity to see the person that is explaining things to them and have some kind of relatability.

B And it's funny because, like, If I mentioned any kind of accolades, it falls flat. I mean, you know, that audience doesn't care about, you know, the number of square feet that you've built.

A Yes. But how many architects lead with like the, we are an award-winning design firm on the front of the website?

B Yes, exactly. And you're like, sure, that works for clients or for future clients who are on the web. But if you're talking to an audience that does not want to be sold to, they just want to believe in you. That's not the best way to open, or it hasn't been, at least on my end with audience that I've been able to grow that is primarily students, primarily mid-career professionals. And then, you know, a lot of emeritus. So like, because I can see my stats a lot in the, you know, 65 to 85 age range who are in there as well. So I'm like, this is really cool to get a little bit of everyone. And usually like what I see in the older generation is they're commenting on what students are asking.

B So it's really like a community platform to be able to share things with each other in a way that like is handheld. It's not scary, it's not intimidating. And that was really the nonchalantness that comes out of the TikTok and the Reels side of things.

A So I've been telling myself for like 3 years now that I need to do more video. Do you have any anxiety about putting yourself out there, being judged by colleagues, like all of the things that come along with being a perfectionist? Which I feel like so many of us are in architecture.

B So, first and foremost, it was 100% a test in perfectionism. It was really to see, you know, how much can I break that wall for me? And, you know, for me, one thing that I did do, I did enjoy so much in school was this process of iteration, like quick iteration. The faster it was, the better concept it actually was, right? And what was neat is when I started doing these videos, it was really heavy dialogue. I'm going to do at least 60 to 90 seconds of a lesson that has, you know, a beginning, middle, end. And those things fell flat. And I kept wondering why. But then I would look at the videos that I'd watch and none of them were really like that. Like they were much shorter or they were things that I could read in the caption.

B And as I was doing my videos, my managing principal here in Austin, Hillary, she is incredible. She's an awesome mentor. She was on my Instagram and she goes and she said, I showed the executive committee your videos. You need to keep doing this. And to get that kind of encouragement from someone who holds so high of a regard, not only in my mind but within the firm as well, that was a pivotal, pivotal moment for me to say, hey, let's just keep iterating and see where we go from here and keep doing that. And then now, like, when I get to— we came back from a strategic planning retreat in Boston earlier this year with our K-12 group, and our leaders there were like, hey, I saw your content on Instagram, you're doing a really great job. Like, to hear those things, and I'm sure there's like things where people just are not going to tell you the nice things in front of your face. But to get those kind words of affirmation meant a lot to me, especially to people who I admire in the professional space.

B And it helps me kind of keep a— not keep a guard, but like you see which videos perform better than others. And it's really in the you-focused content. Like it's not about my story anymore. It's more so about how I can help the person on the other end. So that's helped me shape, you know, what scripts go out, what B-roll text goes out. And yeah, a lot of it is just, you know, I start with a notepad and I'm like, okay, these are the things exactly that someone asked me about today. What does that look like in a video?

A Okay. For those that don't know, what is B-roll?

B B-roll. Okay. So B-roll is like I set my phone aside and I work for 10 minutes or I work for 4 minutes and then I step away.

A Right.

B So it's me. It's really— it doesn't even have to be you. You can record like something in front of you for a certain amount of time. But if you're in anything in videography, you know, there's B-roll, so you're just recording things as they happen. And then you have the talking head, which is like what we're doing right now. So you would see a video of just your face and, and how you talk. And then there's like green screen with stuff behind you. That was just— that's above my pay grade.

B I'm still learning that stuff.

A The other interesting thing that you're talking about is all of the metrics that you can see behind what you're putting up there, which is actually, I think, is really incredible. Like if you were to take it from a marketing perspective and begin to like digest that and then, and then use it in a strategic way. So, can you go into kind of a little bit more detail, at least maybe using Instagram as a platform? Because I feel like a lot of architects post beautiful pictures to Instagram, but for the Reels, what type of metrics are you getting that might even be more helpful than like what you're seeing from just posting pictures?

B 1,000%. So, what I'm seeing right now in Reels engagement is if it's something that can be shareable, Right? So if I'm telling— I just, I did a video on what are 10 other career paths that you can take with your architecture degree. Spoiler alert, you don't have to start from zero, right? So you're like using those skills. And then in the caption, it kind of explains these are 10 different career options and then you can kind of make a follow-up. And the way I look at that is I look at the metrics beyond just views, right? Because you get an idea of views, but you see things like how many people have saved this, how many people have shared it, how many countries has it reached, what are your top cities? Like my top cities right now are New York, Lisbon, and Istanbul, which are nuts. It's absolutely crazy. But Instagram now has this translation option, right? So whenever you're doing a talking head video, it can reach people in like 50 languages. The 10 I normally see are primarily languages in India, languages in the Middle East, and then, you know, of course Spanish and Portuguese, because that's a big part of the audience as well.

B So when you really start to talk about the the possibility of a global impact, especially if you're in a global firm, people want to know what is the, what's the story, right? Yes, I see these beautiful pictures, but how do I get hired? Like, how can I work at your firm? What are the kind of people that you, you look for, the skills that you look to, which of course are very different from my day job as a project manager and as a business developer. But when you look at it, there's a lot of the same threads there, right? You're talking, It's a professional development on how you share stories. Well, you're doing the same thing on a media platform to quite literally hundreds of thousands. You know, the reach is about 1.5 million people a month is where I'm at right now. So when you start to look at those numbers, well, yeah, people are going to be able to grow professionally and you had a part to play in that, a small part to play in that, but something that keeps people connected and maybe motivates them to stay in and either follow along or create their own content, which is really my ultimate goal.

A To get more people to create content,

B get more people to create content, be a part of architecture, not be afraid to, you know, don't be the architect that hides behind our screen or hides behind our building. Be a voice and a trusted advisor more than anything else.

A One of the biggest compliments that I received last year was how I bring a certain level of humanity, I think, to being a leader. And you've, you've done that. Like, you tell your truth on on social media, like how many times you failed in ARE, for instance. Talk to me about how those stories have been resonating. And I think, again, like breaking this wall of needing to be perfect as a leader and showing up perfectly all the time.

B 100%. I think people are most hungry to know what parts of the profession do people not share out loud. A lot of us will share our milestones that inspire others to reach it. But if you really want to connect with an audience, you have to be vulnerable. Share the parts that are scarier to talk about, right? That raw honesty can win when you talk about your failures, the salary realities. I've had a lot of people ask about how you build confidence, boundaries, and then a lot of how-tos, like, how can I start? And it comes to a lot of storytelling and, you know, this didn't work for, or this worked for me, or this didn't work for me, but it might work for you, right? Or vice versa. And being able to, to you share those stories out loud, I think is incredibly valuable. And the content engagement back and forth is really valuable too, because then others realize, you know, hey, she got a C in her first studio and she's doing all right.

B That means I can make it through this, right? And it's cool to see people really reach inspiration, but more than anything else, see themselves in the content. I think that's what's been most beneficial.

A Time for a quick break from our sponsor, Gelt. Stop reactive filing, start proactive planning. Gelt provides year-round CPA support with entity and payroll optimization tailored to your firm. Save now at joingelt.com. Mention Practice of Architecture for 10% off. The other thing that we tend to complain about where I see an opportunity is, especially as practitioners, is this transition between being taught as to be a, the star architect right, in school and the realities of what it means to work in a firm. Do you get a lot of questions kind of around, around that? Like the, you know, back to the, how do you start, but also like what is the reality of your first, first year in practice type of thing?

B Yes, definitely. Primarily around, if anything, it's like, well, why didn't this happen faster? Like, why? I shared a, I shared a video that was my career progression and my salary progression as I went, because I have a lot of people who say, well, If I'm not making six figures in three years, I'm out of here. And valid. I mean, if that's what you want to do and you can find higher paying careers, I'm not going to tell you no. And in all honesty, I think, you know, in architecture we should be paid more as a career, but it won't happen unless we show our value, right? There's part— there's a two-sided piece to that. And when you share stories like that, that, hey, in my first year I was offered this salary and this was my title. When you can talk about that truthfully and you're not sugarcoating it and you're not putting a 10% markup on what it was you actually made when you jumped in the field, it resonates with people and it helps them see, hey, okay, so maybe that, you know, $65,000 offer I was getting right out of graduation wasn't so bad. Maybe that, maybe that was totally fine.

B And then you start to get into the next steps of, okay, you know, you're being told you have to be doing this role before you even— I can even consider you for promotion. Well, what does that actually mean? Because you have a lot of people who will ask, how do I become a project manager? Okay, well, these were the steps that had to happen. These were the additional trainings that had to happen. If you want to do this on your own, here's how you do it. But even getting your license fast and getting your PMP certification is not going to guarantee you the trust that you'll have over a certain amount of time. And maybe that's something that we have to unpack as practitioners within our own

A I think there's definitely a little bit of like us, like getting out of our own way and like removing the, I did this, so you have to do this type of mentality.

B Yes. And I think that's a lot of the motivation behind the channels. Like, hey, I did it this way, but you don't have to, let me give you the leg up so that you can rise higher than I did. And even, you know, smoother and have it, have an easier transition into the profession.

A I do think one of the things that I'm realizing, cause I'm also trying to unpack like the, the progression, the career progression in architecture.

B Architecture.

A And one of the things that seems so incredibly obvious, but like, it just took me a while to, to fully unpack it, is the fact that architecture projects take so long to do. And if I were, for instance, in a software company releasing new product that rolls out every 3 months, that is like a new opportunity for a job change, for added responsibilities, for me to transition onto another project. The reality is that just doesn't happen as often in an architecture firm for you to step into a new role on a project because you haven't even finished your first project, which makes that career ladder harder. But then to like, but then the next question, and I'm internalizing it myself, is like, but then how do we create a career ladder that is more similar to something that moves so fast while being stuck on these projects? Projects that take so many different— so long to kind of finish and create, which is not something we necessarily have to, like, have to answer here, of course. But, but it's just kind of a realization that I've come to, that, that it really does— the length of our projects really, in a way, hinders our ability to move forward faster.

B I can— I mean, I can completely agree with that, especially, you know, in the educational markets where elementary schools take 18 months of construction Okay, well, I had you staffed for at least 9 months of design work. I cannot suddenly promote you to the PA when I already have a PA and a PM staffed because you got your license in between, right? That's a major storytelling component too, of the career ladder. What a great insight, Evelyn. And, you know, I think that's something that we can continue to unpack as we talk about construction methodologies getting faster and things happening quicker, that it, that can in turn change not only how we approach our fees, but how we talk about the profession as a whole and the professional development of others.

A So you want to bring together this community that inspires. You would love to see other creators in the platform. Is there anything else that you're hoping to get out of everything that you're doing that we haven't talked about yet, or that you like have yet to see but hope to see kind of transpire from your actions?

B Yeah, absolutely. I genuinely hope to see more educators come into the fold and find this educator-practitioner network to help support students become better prepared to go into the profession. Because I know our professors are constantly bombarded with research projects that they have to do, with the student work that has to be done. A lot of them are owning their own firms. So our educators have— not to even mention the things on the Department of Education that are going to trickle down and affect them in the long run. So I have a great respect for them in that way. But I think programs like the ACSA's Propel program that is, you know, quick, here's some professional practice tools that we can teach you in a 15-minute or, you know, 1-hour course. That to me I think is going to be greatly impacted— impactful for our students.

B Now where my question is, is do they have to go to a separate platform or can it be shared on, you know, something I can watch in 60 seconds on my phone, right? That instead of sitting for an hour and watching Black Spectacles, is it something— people are so much more likely to sit down and watch Instagram Reels for an hour than they are to sit and watch an hour on long-form content. So like when you start to look at things like that, I'd love to see more, whether it be the professional organizations, study tools, even with my own content, build an educational platform that can be accessed from anywhere at any time. I think that'll help the, help us move from, you know, just purely brain rot TikTok to going to learning on TikTok where there's a lot of like momentum. And in all honesty, there's a great opportunity for people to learn learn there. And as we're seeing, from any country, from any place.

A So a lot of people might be listening saying, wow, like, I'm kind of interested in doing what Gabby is doing, but one, like, they're— they might be in a position where they're afraid of whether or not they're going to get support from their firm. You and I have both talked about times in our careers where we felt less supported than we would have hoped, in spite of, like, what we're giving back to the profession. So what do you— what do you say to those individuals who would really want the opportunity to kind of get their voice out there, but are kind of worried about, especially what their firm thinks, but also just the criticism of other architects too.

B The most important thing to say is if you are going to put yourself out on that platform, be prepared to be vulnerable. More than anything, try to be useful before you try to be viral, because, you know, if you try— there are some really great meme talks, don't get me wrong, it's, it's wonderful. And Architecture has a whole page just dedicated to like architecture funny memes, which is great. But if you want to do it in an educational content way, again, focus on, on the usefulness. Start with what you know, whether that's process, career lessons, mentorship, or systems. And don't be afraid to show your own personality in that as well. Like I have a very different story than, you know, Jason in Hawaii or than Sarah in Dallas. Right? So being able to say what my storytelling is and how that connects to a specific audience.

B No, starting with what you know has been the most beneficial and then protect your credibility, right? Like we are still licensed architects. These are, we have a public authority to uphold. So protect that credibility. Don't post anything confidential and then don't speak beyond your expertise. And I know that's something that like can get fuzzy, especially if you're sharing things as you're learning, but there should be a, you kind of like, for me, I set boundaries for myself on where I start and then what it is. You know, that I'm currently working on that I'm comfortable with sharing, which, you know, 100% of the time is not work, especially, especially working in schools. It's more so about, you know, hey, what's the process behind this? And then for firm leaders, what my messaging for them who are, maybe you're supporting an emerging professional, a project manager, a seasoned architect who is pursuing these kinds of things. If your best people are afraid to speak, you're not protecting that professionalism.

B You're just protecting your control over them. And I think that's something that we have to get over. Supporting visibility, if you're going to support visibility and you're afraid that there would be some kind of overstepping of boundaries, open up with guidelines and social media training and trust, because a lot of times it's a matter of when, not necessarily if. And know that, you know, future recruits aren't just going to Google what the culture of the firm is. They're now going to look to that person's social media profile to be a representation of the firm. So there, if anything, there should be kind of a positive conversation before it turns negative.

A A lot of your talks, you talk about legacy in various different aspects. And I say like, you definitely have a voice, but I also want to acknowledge that it's okay for your voice to change over your time. Like, right, you were not always the Architect Big Sis. I think you were, but you were on Instagram kind of long before you found that. And I always tell people, like, I started off as I like, I had this moniker and I used to own the website greensceengirl.com. Which would also post like Evelyn Lee would go to Greenscreen Girl because I thought I was going to be the sustainability expert. And then I realized really quickly that gets really technical, really quick in architecture in a way that I don't geek out about or care to geek out about. So I was like, Greenscreen Girl isn't going to work for me.

A But it was by putting myself out there that I kind of found my own voice and began to grow into who I am. So why do you want want to be your legacy that you kind of leave behind as, as you continue to grow into who you are?

B You know, for me, it's mostly been just opening doors and building pathways that outlast me, right? So whether that is, hey, I was exposed to Gabby as Architect Big Sis. Hey, I was exposed to Gabby as a scholarship founder. Hey, I was exposed to it in this way or another way. What's so amazing is, like you're saying, we are evolutionary creatures. We're meant to change over time. And if we're staying stagnant, then we're not doing something right. And what's, what's great is you can kind of see, almost start to picture these eras in your life that have happened. Very Taylor Swift-esque, you know, the student, and then you have the early career professional, the student, the intern, the early career professional.

B And when you see it in those seasons of life, I think it makes a lot more sense in the broader picture that, hey, this is, this is the, the teaching and giving moment. And then you start to see, well, what does that turn into next? Is that a broader platform? Is it a community engagement tool? Is it, you know, helping firms and helping other people find out how to, how to storytell in this way? But what I think is so neat about social media is you can take people along with you for that journey as comfortable as you are sharing it. Right? So a lot of the PM designer to PM diaries are, I'm literally in the middle of it right now. You know, you're taking the PM learning courses and you're, managing projects. I've been doing that now for like a year and a half and just now comfortable about opening up about it because I thought for so long my design architect, that was who I was. That's all I did for, you know, from when I graduated school till now. So to take people along those things, I think that vulnerability is even more important because people see, hey, she didn't have to stay. She didn't have to stay a green girl the whole time.

B Like she could turn it into something else. So can I. And being able to open that door when I was so heard I felt like I had to inherit a career. I think people need to understand that too with architecture. Yes, you became it. Yes, you have the license, but that doesn't mean your career has to look one way the entirety of it.

A How do you handle— because there are always the critics. I think we've had a very positive discussion about like putting ourselves out on social media, but I think definitely on LinkedIn and I kind of, I just leave those comments alone. How do you handle like The trolls, the trolls. Yeah.

B How do you handle the trolls? Yeah, they're just some straight up trolls on Instagram. No, I think like I've mostly seen them on videos that like do much better in traction as far as engaging comments. And you know, if people take the time to troll your video, well, hey, that's engagement. That means that's 100 more people who are going to see your content because of it. No, in all seriousness, like, yes, it is a, it is a vulnerability thing, but to the quick iteration. Okay, I see it. I'm not internalizing it and I move on. I think that's the best thing you can possibly do for it.

B Now, if, if there's a conversation at work and someone pulls you aside and you have to choose either between doing social media or, you know, continuing to stay at that job, that's a whole different conversation. And that's something that, you know, if you put guardrails on beforehand, not, not to say firms should have any kind of say over what you post on your public media platforms. I do want to put that because that has come up before, that, you know, there's just a responsibility to it, right? And if you're going to be out in public and you're going to openly say firm names, know that you're going to be accountable for it. But I think that's just how we practice. We should, we should be accountable for every word that we say, whether that is on social media or not. So we just, as we show our character in that side of things, know that if the trolls respond You do not always have to reply back, and then you have autonomy. You can block and you can delete, and I have done that before.

A Yeah. To be fair, I leave— people ask me why I don't delete those comments, and I say, well, you know what's interesting is, and when I tell people when they're looking for a job, I was like, don't only look at the profile, which contains a very scripted, like, here's who I am, here's how I want the public to perceive me. Go and look at the comments that they're putting on other people's posts and ask yourself, is that, is that a person that I wanna work with?

B Oh yeah, that's absolutely great advice, especially on LinkedIn where you can track all those things. I, I don't know why people seem to forget that their digital, your digital footprint never goes away.

A So that, that I know some of these people and I'm like, would you ever come up to me and say that in like to my face in person?

B Yes.

A Be honest. And you know, they wouldn't. But they feel the freedom to say it. So, I can only imagine what they would say, like screaming at me through Teams or Slack or an email, right? If I were to have done something wrong. So, you know, as much as we want to believe that architecture is understood by people, I would argue that it is one of the professions that is least understood by the public, even though we have this, there's this elevated view of wanting to be the quote unquote architect.

B Yes. Because we believe we can do everything. And in all honesty, like architecture sometimes feels like it's the profession of all the class presidents everywhere, all the time. And because like the sheer self-belief that comes from architects is always so impressive to me. Like, yeah, we can absolutely do that. We can do anything with our degree. And yes, I completely agree. I think architecture education is so valuable, but in the same way, you're right.

B That we, you know, we think we've got it all solved with public understanding. But to be honest, I think my platform is the representation of it. A lot of even architecture students don't understand what architects do. So, like, we need to make sure that our house is clean before we go out and start hosting, right? Before we start bringing a bunch of people in, we need to get our public understanding. And I think here's the thing, my experience is going to be very different from your experience and being able to, for people to see, hey, okay, here's a bunch of architecture careers that have gone through. And there's a, there's a lot of other really great people who I look to. Like Architecture Blueprints, like Fraulein Architektin out in Germany, on how they share their story that can really apply to this because one is a professor and one is a newly graduated student. So they have very different perspectives in Canada and Germany respectively that I can give from the US side.

B I do, I have noticed so many times I give a very US perspective and then remember, oh shoot, not every, not everyone practices that way. And I'm like, that's not just the That's the Texan in me who thinks that like everyone gets how Texas does stuff, right? But, you know, as far as public understanding, I think we have a really, really long way to go and there is no way, shape, or form I can just do it on my platform alone. And that's a lot of my encouragement to others that, hey, people are on socials right now. And there is, there's not only that, there's a creator economy out there. So like if you wanted to turn that into a real business venture, you can, you just have to have the business literacy, the architectural literacy, and the social media literacy. And it's not going to stop you. It's not going to hurt your career unless you're using it irresponsibly.

A So, I wanted to dig in a little bit more into like marketing and raising the value of architecture and the value of this type of storytelling towards that, especially coming off of my year as a lead in a major organization where I have so many people constantly complaining to me that we are not doing enough to market the value of architecture. And, and I'm kind of like, well, one, I don't know any marketing campaign that I have ever watched that all of a sudden I go around and say I should be spending 10% more on the product than I was previously. But also, we've just been talking about K-12. We know there's architects doing commercial. We know there's architects doing Higher ed, we know there's architects doing hospitality and restaurant and distillery. We know there's architects doing industrial. I don't know a marketing campaign that can successfully cover all of the markets that we operate in. So, for me, it's better for more people to be telling the story about the value of architects.

A And I wonder from your perspective, if we had that happening, Is there truly the ability to move the needle on kind of where our value falls if we had more people telling the story?

B I think there's absolutely a value opportunity there. It just becomes who's the audience, right? So, a lot of my audience is going to be students and those who are interested in the career. But if you're talking about buildings and who's paying for our services, Well, it starts now. It starts with those who are scrolling on social because they're eventually going to be our clients if we stay where we are. Right? So, I think if we look at the elevation profile of an architect from now over the next 15 years and really see, hey, in the midst of, you know, these great AI automation tools and these faster building construction practices, where do we fall into the mix? How do we greater become the trusted advisor? Well, the only way I can be the trusted advisor is if you see my benefit to you, right? So if you are learning our best tips and tricks, if you are learning how this community engagement turned into an actual realized design, I think things like that when it comes to storytelling can greatly impact what our fees look like down the road and greatly impact what our business models look like. Because if it looks the same way it does now in 20 years, I think we've done ourselves a disservice because it looks the same now as it did 20 years ago, 20 years before that. Our programs might not, but our business model overall has stayed fairly the same. So I think there's time for some evolutionary practices and asking, you know, how can we get our stories in front of the decision makers and the storytellers?

A Social media didn't exist when I was little. So if the 16-year-old version of yourself, a little border town girl, were to scroll through their phone and stumbles across content like yours, what do you hope that her next steps are?

B I hope that she sees that her background is not a disadvantage, her accent isn't a disadvantage. It's going to be the lens that makes you powerful. And that you saw someone else who told you you belong to your who told you, hey, find mentors, and even suggested what questions to ask. That is my hope. That's my hope that they could feel seen and heard in that moment. And in the same way, say, hey, you know, whether or not I actually pick this career, that's the first time I've seen someone who looks like me say that they're an architect. I'm going to go Google what that is, or I'm going to go find what that is and keep doing a deeper dive. And I hope that they see, you know, you don't necessarily need an inside connection to be successful in this field, because that's a big storytelling component in my and my background is I didn't know anyone who was in the AAC industry.

B You just need to have the right people in your circle, but you won't be able to get that unless you can get in a firm and you ask questions to be a part of that. Those professional and soft skills will take you such a long way, and everyone can learn how to talk and be friendly. You know, the question is, how can I turn that and pair that with professional competency and see how far it'll take you.

A And then for those people, no matter where they are in age, who are like, okay, I want to give this a try, where do they start? What equipment are you using? What, what are you using for editing? All of that, all of those questions,

B all the, all the fun things. And look, if it's, if it's free 99, that's where I'm going with it. So I use my phone, natural lighting. I do have like an extra a mobile light that I take, like if I'm in a hotel or something and I'm— I just have a video idea, I'll record it. More times than not, I try to be around windows and get as much natural light as possible. And then editing softwares, I'll use the Instagram edits tool or CapCut to do, you know, fancier captions or things with more animations or keyframes. Really love doing that.

A How do you get over the fear of posting your first video?

B Just get out and do it. I think like if you are like me and your voice makes you cringe the first time you hear it, definitely Really, you know, dive into the videos that are like long caption. Maybe, you know, you have a specific idea, just record something around you and then part of your face and then use that as a long caption video and then have a title slide. Really, that was like my— helped me break out of thinking that it needs to be perfect. And then utilize trial reels. I use that all the time and I think it's been like really amazing. So what trial reels are is it's on Instagram. Have a certain— I think it's 1,000.

B If you have 1,000 followers, you can then post videos that don't go to your followers, that are just to non-followers. And that's where I really like test a lot of these concepts and ideas and see what does well, and then reshare it out after that to the broader audience. So I don't fatigue those who are already in that circle from seeing my face 30 times in a day.

A And then is it really about like the more often you post, the better?

B No, I think it was that way maybe like a year or so ago, but there's been some major shifts in Instagram's algorithm to where, you know, now it is really focused on the keywords that you use. So for example, mine, I know I'm going to use constantly architecture careers, professional, and architect. Like, so those keywords, if people were to look them up, they would find my videos as a part of it, right? So that means it's more so about the quality. So are you pointing things that are in your— they're not even called niches anymore— that are within your keywords, in your category? Okay, well then that's gonna reach the right people who find that in their own algorithm. It's really cool stuff. It's like a whole other side of things that like, am I ever gonna be tested on it in a competency framework? Probably not, but it helps us sell the practice and that's what I'm about.

A Okay, any final words, hopes for the future of the profession?

B I hope we demystify the profession more and more, but I think I'm not— I know I'm not alone in that. Help people see what architecture is and means and know that it doesn't have to look the way it does today to be successful in the future, and that we shouldn't hold everything so precious in what we do

A now. Hi, disruptors! Thank you for joining us today on an episode of Practice Disrupted. If you like the content for today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on

B practiceofarchitecture.com/podcast.

A Be a part of the conversation by joining me, our speakers, and other disruptors in our community at practiceofarchitecture.com/community. Our social media handle is Practice of Arch. That's Practice of A-R-C-H. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to drop us a DM at and say hello. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.