Bonus Episode: AISC Architecture Center

B Welcome to a special episode of Practice Disrupted. This week, we're spotlighting a resource you may not even realize exists for architects, the Architecture center at the American Institute of Steel Construction, or aisc. While AISC has long been known as a technical hub for structural engineers, the Architecture center is working to change that.

B Perception, offering architects better access to tools.

B Knowledge, and support when working with steel. To help us explore this hidden gem, I'm joined by Nima Balasubaranyan, Director of architecture at AISC's Architecture center, who's building out the center's mission to bridge the gap between design and fabrication one resource at a time. Joining her is Park McDowell, associate principal at Payette and Director of Fabrication. Park's work sits at the intersection of craft and community, using fabrication to drive design excellence and shared agency across teams. Together, we'll explore how deeper collaboration with fabricators and a stronger understanding of material capabilities can reshape the way we design and deliver architecture. Time to reframe the way we practice.

C Hello, Nima. Hello, Park. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. I'm so happy to have you here with us today. Thanks for joining.

E Thanks for having us. I'm delighted to be part of the conversation.

B One of the reasons, Zima, why I wanted to bring you back was to dig a little bit deeper into the Architecture center at aisc. So can you, for our audience, tell us a little bit about the Architecture center at aisc, which is a little bit more than a year old now.

D Yes. Yeah. Yes. So, first off, American Institute of Steel Construction, not many architects know that it's a nonprofit organization and a technical institute. So that's something that. That's a big misconception, commonly misunderstood amongst architects. And the Architecture center was an initiative created by AISC for architects. By architects.

D So primarily to help them find the resources they need. Because while I was a practicing architect, the biggest problem I had with structural steel was looking for that information in a regular practicing firm. I would always have to call my structural engineer, and I had questions on anything related to the frame. And to have that basic information as an architect helps. Do your own research, basic research, and get started with the project before having to go to your engineer for everything. So I think the primary reason why the Architecture center was created was to provide the resources architects need so that it saves time, cost money, and helps them achieve the project goals more effectively and efficiently. That's the primary goal.

C Parc, for our audience sake, can you tell us a little bit about your path in architecture and what you do now?

A Sure. I introduce myself as an architect and a fabricator. And that's because while I practice architecture, I also run a shop and I weld and I assemble steel and I run a CNC router together with my team. My path took me a number of different places, but specifically I had a solid footing in the trades before entering graduate school. Before going to graduate school for architecture after college I was a welder in Alaska. I worked in a fabrication shop in Anchorage and I also worked up on the Prudhoe Bay oil fields above the Arctic Circle and that was repairing transit pipelines. When I went to graduate school, I kept a kind of interest in physically making things that persisted even after I left graduate school, started my first job at NADA here in Boston and then started this journey at Payette. And if I'm to try and distill what it is that I do, I would have to say that as an architect I use fabrication to expand the agency of the discipline.

A And a big part of that is about co authorship, actually it's about positioning my collaborators for success and on their terms. What I mean to say is that models and mock ups, physical objects help all parties to understand the design problem. And if you have an understanding of the problem, then you can have a voice in its resolution. That's an incredibly powerful approach. Making clarifies ideas and clear ideas enable decisions and it's decisions that move a project forward.

C So looking at, I'm just trying to connect the two of you now so you know how much of your fabrication evolves around steel or your knowledge of steel and to what extent has the Architecture center supported your process?

A Sure. I'm trying to think, Nima, how did we connect? And if I'm recalling correctly, last summer you gave me a call and it was because our mutual friend Karen Robichad, a former colleague of mine, she runs a very effective communications consulting firm for architects specifically. And she was working with you, Nima, and the Architecture center and said like, oh hey, I know an architect who does a lot of stuff in steel. Let me connect you to. So that's where it began. And my contact with the AISC started some years ago actually from the vantage of the architect. And I just completed a lovely project in Boston with Northeastern University and Payette, together with ARUP and Stimson and a number of other consultants developed this pedestrian bridge at Northeastern University that spans across the rail lines connecting the main campus with the expanding science and engineering campus on the other side of the tracks. And through that project, which was all weathering steel in a rather theatrical arc and really connecting two neighborhoods in the city.

A It was a generous civic gesture. That was a project that allowed me to connect with Modern Steel magazine and the editors there and better understand the priority structure of the AISC and the resources that you have available to architects.

D Right. I know park from that project too. And then Karen introduced us and it was great. Since then, park has been involved with AIC and the Architecture center in a number of ways. He's also a member of our think tank committee, which involves some architects, engineers, fabricators, people from different fields to work on what's next, what's out there for the future, and innovative ideas. So I'm glad Park is on board with us and looking forward to connecting with more architects like that and be a collaborator in that space.

C Park, if you could talk a little bit more about your role at Payette and the collaborative spirit that it really takes to get these type of projects done. And then Nima, we'll follow up with you on how AISC can support that collaboration.

A Sure, Evelyn. So at Payette, we do a lot of really complex buildings. This is things like laboratories and hospitals. And as a design architect, I work across a range of these projects, often on building envelopes, sometimes on key specialty features like stairs or millwork or architectural metal. And I also design smaller projects like a bridge or a series of urban activations, or residential buildings or public art. I'm frequently involved in the design and detailing of complex geometry, and a lot of that is executed using structural steel. In addition to that more conventional architectural role, I also lead our internal fabrication group. And this is a group that works with our project teams to build things like models and mock ups as part of our design process, to test ideas and importantly to communicate those ideas to ourselves and to our collaborators.

A And increasingly we even bridge that gap a bit farther. Payette is making key furniture and installation scale things that go into our buildings. So this includes CNC fabricated elements, a lot of architectural steel, architectural metals, which we fabricate in our own shop.

D Yeah, PAYET is unique in its way of approach to architecture. Not all traditional architecture firms are set up this way. But with in house fabrication shop, very few firms, but those firms are great design. Like for example, Jeanne Gang's office I visited during Open Studio and they have a similar setup. And the Architecture center at AIC is here to support firms that don't have that set up, don't have an in house fabrication. So to connect regular projects and architects and their teams to the fabrication team to make them understand the supply chain where their steel is Coming from and even understand what the capabilities of steel is for their project. Sometimes material is always an afterthought. In traditional typical projects, I would say, I wouldn't say it's always the case, but like developer LED projects or small scale projects and cost is more of a concern and design isn't.

D Material is always an afterthought. And involving collaboration early on in the design process resolves a lot of issues that come later because of material change. I once worked on a project which was like, oh, it was designed to be a steel building. Halfway through dd, after process approval to the city, we changed it to be precast. Like okay, sure, let's just switch it up. That causes a lot of cost issues down the lane. Structural issues that often owners or developers don't see. And that's something is due to lack of awareness amongst architects and the fact that we don't advocate enough for ourselves with owners and GCs.

C Yeah, it sounds like Park. Did you want to follow up on that?

A I did, because I've got a specific idea about what the Architecture center is from the vantage of the architect.

C Yeah, that would be great.

A For me, the Architecture center is all about forging connections and that's connections between the designer and the builders who execute their ideas. It's about establishing a common language and a common knowledge base. And it's that shared territory which accelerates innovation.

C I would love for either of you to respond to this because Nima, you started off the conversation with usually when you were a practitioner yourself, if you had any questions, the first person that you would call is your structural designer. And the structural designer, you would hope that they would be versed in a variety of different structural systems, steel included. So when in the process, should I be picking up the phone and why would I be calling AISC even? Or do I bring my structural designer and AISC and the whole team together?

D So there's two ways to approach this. One is general understanding of what structural steel can do. So that when you are conceiving a new project, steel might be one of the options, material options that you are exploring along with other materials. So in order to do that, you need some basic knowledge of what's what, the capabilities and possibilities of steel are. So that is provided and available with AISC in our resource center on our website, we have a newsletter that sends out as a monthly issue and you get to read about new innovations, new projects, case studies, all of that. You get to be inspired through that. And so that's one approach. The other approach is you're already working on a project, you're at a point where you're trying to decide the structural framing system of the project and you're like, let's see what works best for this cost wise, efficiency wise and structurally, if it's like a multi story skyrise, what would be better? Which floors can be steel, which floors can be concrete, or would.

D At that point you might have a question which is a little bit too basic. You're just trying to decide on the column base sizing. And maybe you don't want to call your structural engineer yet because you're still exploring options. That might be a good time to visit AISC's website and look at the resources. We have different guides for vibration acoustics, different types of projects, and also recently hybrid steel, timber design guides. If you're doing a project on hybrid steel and timber, what design considerations should you take into account by designing a project? So it gives you a basic knowledge as for an architect. And your structural Engineer already knows AISC because we've been around for 100 years and they use our steel manual to do their exams and study and they constantly use it to size their members. So they know us and they're using us.

D It's just the architects find it too technical and the Architecture center is here to bridge that gap between the engineer and the architect. And provided in a form it's more palatable for the architect's brain, more visual, less formulas. So yes, yeah. And we also have a FAQ section and email address where you can post questions to. So you have a very specific question, say, I don't know if I can do this. Would vibration be an issue on the steel floor framing system or something like that for a hospital building, for example? And you could put that as a question without disclosing too much information that you don't want to disclose. And we have a steel solution center, people who are PhDs, engineers waiting to respond to that. And their only job is to do that.

D We get multiple questions in a day from engineers, but we encourage more from architects too.

A I think there are some interesting opportunities here. It's about the things that we each respectively do the best. And architects, I think, as a discipline tend to be very good at taking complex circumstances, client requests, different priority structures and synthesizing that into a cohesive design. But there are things that the builder does much better than the architect. In particular, that's understanding the opportunities and the constraints of different ways of making things. And that's something which is powerful about what the AISC has done. With this architecture center taking things like just even misconceptions about how you can use steel. It's like, okay, shop assemblies, standalone structural systems, maybe simple, maybe complex or exuberant geometry.

A But steel is not just something by itself. It plays well with concrete and it doesn't stop there. Nima, you mentioned briefly hybrid systems. Recently we've been having great success using hybrid assemblies that have steel columns and steel beams, then mass timber structural decking with acoustical slots, a concrete topping slab. We're doing this on projects like the UMass Amherst Sustainable engineering Lab. It's got really stringent environmental performance requirements. It's got a skinny budget, tight floor to floors, challenging vibration constraints. It's all of these different parameters that we're able to address with a hybrid steel, timber, concrete system to support projects like that.

A The AISC Architecture center has excellent documentation things like hybrid system guides. I think It's Design Guide 37, right, Nima?

D Yes. Oh my God.

C I think you really have an enthusiast when he can name the design guideline number.

A It's my favorite design guide.

C Park, I have an interesting question for you. It's a little bit off topic because, you know, as Nima mentioned, Payette is kind of unique in the fact that they have your position. They have a fabricator on board. Not just a fabricator, but an entire team. If I am not so fortunate enough to be in the position that Payette is, what is the best opportunity and where should we be bringing in a team of fabricators into the design process?

A You know what, Evelyn, that is an excellent question. I'm talking about this specifically at the conference, and I've done it before in similar venues. But you know, what does it mean to embed fabrication within architectural practice and how do you do it across firms of different scales? It starts not with tools and equipment. It doesn't start even with people that can make things. It starts with a cultural approach and you have to ask key questions about what you're trying to do. And then you can determine the different media and approaches which support those priorities for us. At Payette, I've outlined three big ideas which guide the way we deploy our fabrication. And the first would be fostering shared agency.

A The second is about retooling, education and community engagement. And the third one, which is perhaps my favorite, though it's hard to choose, is about broadening the role of the architect. So to the first point there fostering shared agency. As I mentioned before, there's something about a physical object, a model, a prototype, which aids decision making because it helps everybody understand the design problem and have a voice in its resolution. It works not just in an immediate way, not just in that one meeting or the one object or the one decision. It works because it embeds an invitation. It's an invitation that brings people in. It lets them be a part of the process, not just the design team, not just the consultants, not just the builder or the direct client, but the end users.

A And this is important because so much of the work an architect does continues after we leave the room, even after the building is complete and we're off to the next project. The people that occupy that space, if they have a sense of ownership that it is theirs and they have helped to craft it, allow that building to have a life which is far more powerful than if it was just an idea that stopped at the architect. It is a powerful and it is a generous way of working, fostering shared agency. That's why we do it. The second point, retooling education and community engagement. Being able to actually make things is immensely empowering for us as designers. And it's also an effective device for inviting the participation of others. Like I alluded to earlier, it's not just about our immediate circumstances.

A We are crafting a trajectory for the profession looking forward. And this includes doing things like connecting practice with academia through new pedagogical models. We teach at Payette. We actually invite a whole semester long design studio with a comprehensive studio course, a pro practice course and a fabrication seminar. We also do a lot of engagement with local youth, everything from high schoolers down to building theater sets with elementary school kids for the school play. And so that's about using making as a tool for outreach, for community engagement and building for the future. And if you'll indulge me, the third one, because it's, as I said, my favorite, the broadening the role of the architect. So in addition to models and mockups and prototypes, we at Payette are increasingly doing furniture and installation scale elements within our larger projects.

A And while this avenue has boundless potential, in my mind we're judicious about how we deploy our energy. We're trying to hit the most kind of project specific key items that support our major design priorities. And these projects within projects, they they leverage our in house capabilities, but also this broad network of manufacturers and fabricators and professional resources like the aisc. This allows us to achieve efficiencies while adhering tightly to design intent. And it continues not just in the stuff that we do, but in the relationships that we build with specialty trade contributors to the project. And so in this fashion, we're reclaiming territory that historically, architecture is ceded to other professions. And we're doing it in a way that benefits all parties. It's a value proposition for the architect, for the owner, and for the builder.

A And we do it because it works.

C How are you reclaiming those territories exactly?

A Simple answer is we are taking scope, which is outside of the traditional architectural deliverables. So not just making drawings, but making physical things that go into projects.

C I'm happy to hear Payette's approach and your overall bigger philosophy, but if I'm literally. I'm going to back you up just a little bit. If I'm literally the sole practitioner, the small firm owner of a team of.

A Like five people, I've got exactly this thing. So I've worked with firms just like this often. I mean, and Evelyn, you find this in your own work, where there are contributions you can make to your peers in the profession, which are unique to you and outside perhaps of the typical tools they have in their toolbox, but are mostly about forging connections between people that otherwise aren't quite speaking the same language. And so if you have a small practice and you want to embed fabrication within your practice to increase architectural agency, the way that you do it is not by buying big, expensive tools or expanding into some shop space. The way that you do it is by forging relationships with people that can help you execute your ideas. Not just execute them, but design them thoughtfully, where you're like, you're embedding, at least intellectually, some of the means and methods into your design process. You're not owning that contractually, of course, but you're thinking about the way that it's actually getting built when it's in the design.

C I think that's super helpful. I think I want to even get into the more nuance. So where do I find these people?

A Well, I don't think it's actually kind of. It's not reinventing the wheel, because many small practitioners are already doing this. And think about the relationships that you have with a trusted builder, somebody who you've worked on, on five residential projects in the last 10 years. You say, hey, I've got this waterproofing detail. Like, how did. How did we do it on that last project? The areas where I think we've got the most value, though, are not with the general contractor. They're with the specialty subs. And so that might be something like architectural metals or the millworker, things that have a lot of really Thoughtful design embedded in them from the architecture side, but rely on the expertise of somebody with whom the architect has no contractual relationship, usually in order to actually be delivered.

A So with a small firm, what I would advocate for is stepping across the aisle to have a direct relationship with the specialty subcontractors under the general contractor who are doing the things that are most important to you and your project. The only way that I've kind of changed that, which I think is a normal practice, is that I approach it from the vantage of somebody who is. Who has worked both in the field, in the trades, that is, and in the profession. And so it's a bit easier, having been in both camps, to understand the priority structures of those different audiences. And there are things that the architect cares about and things that the builder cares about. And if you can reconcile those two things and clarify the big ideas that drive everyone's actions and motivate the next steps, then we can deliver value for everybody and have a more beautiful product and a more successful project.

C Nima, what did you want to add to that?

D Yeah, I wanted to add, like you asked, how would we find these people? And the Architecture center would be a great place to stop and ask or just explore our website. We have tons of resources. We know all the fabricators around the country have connections to. They're all members of aisc. So we can make those connections for you between the architect and the fabricator. And oftentimes what I've seen is when the fabricator is involved early on, like park mentioned, the design possibilities, it's not just how you get it done, but the possibilities of design are multifold. It gets better, the architecture becomes better. It's not just getting it done.

D It's better. It's less cost and more efficient. And fabricators get involved early on.

C I'm going to circle back to PARC for kind of a continuation question of the small, medium and large. If I do have making this love of craft, but I want to be an architecture practice first, at what size do I consider bringing someone like you on and building a team out to the extent that Payette has and building that into my practice?

A Well, I've actually chatted with a number of different architecture firms specifically about this. And while left to my own devices, I would entertain myself kind of by myself in the shop. I think there is a value to evangelizing because it's too good not to communicate. It's too important actually for our shared built environment. I think we can do things better. And I don't think it's that hard. And as far as how you start to travel this unfamiliar territory, that is, how do you step a little bit outside of design in order to win greater agency over the actual output that is the built product? I like to travel lean. I don't recommend big investments.

A I don't say like, you know, you have to dive in the deep end and just see if it's going to work. I think you baby step it. And so the first would start with some kind of typical design assist model and you're establishing a relationship with a builder who's helping you refine the detailing of your facade or the millwork or the architecturally exposed steel. And with those relationships, you'll start to build a kind of accord and the opportunity for future things. If you're looking to pull more of that under the auspices of the architect, under the designer, and say, do mock ups and prototypes to test your own ideas, I would say the same thing. It's like, hey, I've got an idea. I don't really have it figured out yet. Go down to your millworker that you used on the last product and say, can you just mock this up for me? Here's a Rhino file and I'm not quite sure how to build it.

A And they'll say, well, we could do it with a five axis, or if we split it in half and lay it on two sides, we can mill it on the three axis. And suddenly you start to understand things both about the production of the object and the artifact does have value in its own right, but also about the execution of the building and the components that make that building special.

C There's a lot of stuff happening in the world and supply chain is always an issue no matter what is happening. But there are extra things that are affecting supply chain right now. To what extent does AISC support its members, both on the structural side, but even on the architectural side, to understand the nuances of how that's going to change project costs or the ability to get things done on time.

D Yes, that's a great question. And as a company, we've been responding to this the past one month. Since these changes have been happening in the world, the cost I can guarantee is minimal to none because the tariff is unimported. If I have to speak directly, the tariffs on the goods are imported goods. So if you're using domestic structural steel for your projects, you should have no repercussions, no effect on your costs. The current capacity of the manufacturers, their Production capacity is 100, but they're only using up to 70% of their capabilities, which means they still have room to produce more if needed. So if there's more demand, they can do it. So domestically we don't have any issues.

D It's just that some parts of the country, we import a lot of steel from other countries like Canada, Mexico, China, and with that comes cost. With that comes non sustainable steel production methods. And that drives up your carbon footprint. So it has a lot of effects on your project. But the costs might be low because of their different manufacturing techniques and our previously established connections, and they continue to do that. So we would, as Americans use steel construction, we would advocate to use domestically produced and manufactured steel, which would not have any effect on your projects.

C To what extent do we import. Do you know that we import steel in from the countries you listed? And do we have enough supply to cover the potential demand if we were to shift everything to domestic?

D I don't know what percentage of structural steel. I don't know the exact number. We have a separate government relations department that answers all these technical and political questions accurately. I don't want to put out any incorrect information. So I don't know the exact number that's being imported in terms of steel. But I do know in terms of capacity, we are not at maximum. The manufacturers are not at their maximum. They're only using the 70% of their abilities to produce steel.

D So they still have space and capabilities to meet the demand. If we were to all switch to domestic steel, the structural package of a project contributes to only like 20% of the project cost, so of which the steel would contribute to very less percentage. So any impact on the steel itself, say even if it was imported steel and if it were to be exported expensive, say there was a thousand percent increase in the price of the structural steel, it's still not going to have a huge impact on the project cost because of its minimal percentage. The biggest percentage comes from labor, other materials, finishes and everything else other than the structure. The structure doesn't contribute to a majority.

C That's a good point to make. Thank you for entertaining that question. Park. I did want to circle back to something that you said earlier and you're not the first person to say this about the need for practice to evolve and that it needs to be a cultural shift. So the interesting thing is I had a conversation with another tech company and they said, you know, it's not necessarily about how you use the tech, it's the cultural shift to be a more prototype based culture to think about how we bring these innovations to the Practice rather than the tools, the collaborations themselves. That is underlying everything really is the cultural shift. So looking at traditional practice, what are the mindsets that you see now? Maybe both of you, having pursued non traditional paths, that might be holding back this cultural shift, and how would you go about changing those mindsets?

A I'm going to reverse your question because I'm not so interested in what impediments are there. I'm interested in what we can do to circumvent them. And look forward. I think there's always inertia. I mean, the only impediment is we're doing it this way because we've done it this way before and it's familiar and it's a known risk and we know how to operate within this system. But if we're to continue to improve ourselves, and at least at Payette, that's very much on our mind, then we need to start asking questions. And they don't have necessarily discrete answers. They are open ended questions.

A Things like, how do each of our projects embrace rigorous inquiry to deliver better architecture? Not a simple answer, but that's the kind of question that we're asking. And then the follow up might be like, what are the mechanisms that we might use to predispose a productive, a collaborative design process both internally and with broader stakeholders? I mean, let's take it one step farther. How do we continue to push the limits of our practice, to challenge the status quo and importantly challenge each other? This is the way we talk to each other at Payette. I almost feel like if we're not advancing the discussion, if we're not saying like, huh, how are we doing it better than we did yesterday? It's hard to maintain interest. We want to continually do things a little bit better than last time because we owe it to ourselves and we owe it to our teammates and we owe it to the world.

D I totally agree with that response. I just want to add to it, like questioning things is the right way to get better. Questioning how we can do it better than yesterday, like park said, is how we can change the mindset. But I'm wondering how you at Payet challenge yourself and your clients without driving them away.

C Without driving them away. But also, frankly, the overhead costs and the overhead time and initiatives that it takes to cover responding to those questions. Right. So the reason why architects, for instance, flipping it back around park, the reason why they do things and why they continue to do things, because that's the way they always have done them, is because it's finding new ways of doing Things inevitably takes time. Even if it saves you time on the back end. It's that upfront time and commitment that you're not actually always sure about how much that upfront time and commitment is going to cost you before you see the results on the back end. So for me, it's one thing to say it, but it's another thing to like, what is the cost of implementation? And as a business person, in the long run, I know it's going to be better, but I don't have time to invest that time right now.

A That is a great question and it's one that I think about often. But I hadn't struggled with it honestly, because I've got such now buy in and inertia internally. But let me reflect back on, say, even just eight years ago, nine years ago here at Payette, and we're just expanding our own internal fabrication resources. There had always been an inclination and a predisposition to make things, to test things, but we hadn't really done it with the kind of gusto that we are exploring it now. And so the internal audience, and I think a lot about different audiences here, wasn't one that immediately would adopt, say, making things as part of the design process. This is probably, I mean, Evelyn, you know this extremely well and Nima, your client facing as well. But how do you frame the things that you care about within the value structures of your audience? And that's really the crux of the matter. So an anecdote here.

A I am trying to start some fabrication initiative at the payout office. I know that I want all the different project teams to make things. I'm talking to the project architects and the project managers. And the project managers are saying, like, well, how can I dedicate staff to make a model, for example, when we're scrambling just to get through CDs and we don't have time? And I'm not sure that the work plan has accounted for it. So it's like, okay, well, let's try a few. So we made some models and we took good data as we did it. And so an example project, which had struggled for several months of expensive meetings with numerous principals involved in many of the client leadership. And they were trying to make decisions about a key facade detail.

A And they were doing renderings and then iterations. And you came back next week and you did it again. Everybody, every single architect has been in this loop. So one week we show up and there's a model in the middle of the table. And immediately everybody on the client side understood what we were trying to do. And they were able to evaluate it because they understood it and make a decision. And that proved to us we are money ahead if we produce artifacts that enable decisions and move projects forward. And so that was a case study where we weren't sure there was a value proposition that could justify it, even though we wanted to from a design vantage.

A And then we did it, and we proved it worked. And then we took it around the office and set it in a place where everybody sees it. And then the next project over is like, oh, yeah, I want one of those. And pretty soon it just became embedded in the way that we are. And there are these. These artifacts, these design artifacts scattered around the payout office. Not just scattered. I mean, they fill the place, and they're like seeds that.

A That are carried by the wind, and they take ideas from one project to the next and they generate a new crop. It's amazing the kind of generative potential which these design artifacts can carry.

C It's interesting because I feel like that's how things like, that's how usually the inertia starts, but it's also just like, what type of. Either sometimes you have to hit a certain wall, or what type of pain point do you have to hit? You know, all of those expensive meetings with all those. With the principals involved before you can, like, push that initial crust and get that. Here's a different way of looking at things. Yeah, it's just interesting, like, when that happens, Right?

A That's exactly it, Evelyn. It's like, you know, when things go a little bit wrong, I'm actually not particularly worried because that suggests that there's enough motivation to actually generate change. And I think as a metaphor, that probably extends to things beyond architecture, but I've found it a particularly fruitful motivation and opportunity to advance what I care about in this field. And to be clear, what I'm interested in is making beautiful things and putting them out into the world. And if it aligns with some bigger mission, even better.

C Nima, as we come to a close on this episode, I'd love to understand from you as the director and manager of the Architecture center for aisc, to let us know what the future holds, any other collaborations that you might be taking on, and what you're going to do next, especially when it comes to some supporting architects.

D So, as I mentioned earlier, the Architecture center is here to provide resources to architects in a more efficient way as well. So we want to inform them, but not just through webinars, which is the traditional format, but also Engage and inspire them through hands on experiences. As architects, we love tangible things. We love to be in places, experience it ourselves in person. So we do offer steel mill tours in cities where you are located at. So you, you could request one through our website. And we want to do job site tours. We've been doing a couple and it's been very successful to see the steel being erected and put in place, learning the challenges that go with it and understanding the dynamics in the site.

D And welding workshop tours too at fabricator shops where people get a hands on try out welding for themselves. So next time they're specifying something, oh, this is a field weld this, this type of wealth. They understand the skill set that goes into these and what happens behind the scenes when they're steel members being fabricated. So I feel like these would be the next steps to engage with architects in a more meaningful way and rather in a non typical informing format of webinars or seminars and lectures. So that's what you're looking out for. And we're also collaborating with a lot of AIA chapters locally to do the same, to partner with AIA chapters and then push out these events so that we have local AIA members engaging.

C That's amazing. I also feel like so much of that was missed during COVID but in coming together, just kind of the hands on, creating and making opportunities or just understanding, as you said, what goes into the types of welds that we're calling out, very tiny symbols that we're usually copying and pasting around a document. But Park, I'd love to hear from you on the fabrication side as we close out this episode. Your thoughts on where fabrication and craft and the architect's role in all of that moves with the integration of technology and how that all comes together.

A I hear your question and I'm going to reposition it. The reason why I'm going to reposition it is because, yes, I am a fabricator. Yes, I make things. Yes, that's an important part of who I am as an architect. But I think more broadly there are bigger issues in play right now. And really fabrication is just a mechanism to support design at the end of the day. For me, it is an extremely effective way to deliver the kind of architecture I hope to create. Now.

A Looking around the world when things are complex and challenging and chaotic, I note that those who are most vulnerable are those who are already in a position that was underserved by the built environment we all share. And we as architects, we do have agency to shape that built environment. And there are inequities that are codified in this built environment, particularly with respect to wealth and race and gender. And because of the agency that we have as architects, I think we have an obligation. We have an obligation to both recognize that reality and. And take action to make the world better. And we can do that with every project. With every project, we should be striving to embed amenities that serve an audience beyond the bounds of the design brief.

A As I see it, our role as architects is to provide an injection of energy and expertise at just the right moment to catalyze the efforts of this broad group of stakeholders, and to be inspirational without being prescriptive, and to approach the whole design process with an openness, a kind of humility that invites many voices to contribute. What is your role in a story that is bigger than you.