The Next Generation of Practice

B Welcome to episode 2 of Practice Disrupted. I'm really excited today, Jeanine, because we are going to talk about the next generation of practice. And it's an idea that came out of the practice Innovation Lab, which was something that I worked on while chair of the young architects forum at the AIA 2017.

C What were the goals of the program?

B So the practice innovation lab, every 5 years, and young architects forum host a summit inviting 60 individuals to come together and talk about the future of practice. And ultimately, that summit lays out the strategic plan for the following 5 years for the young architects forum. My year's chair, I decided to flip it on its head a little bit. and really take those 60 people and the divide ultimately divide them up into 10 teams of 6 and look at what are 10 new potential business models that these teams kind of in Tourette style. We were also looking at, you know, what are 10 different business models that these 6 teams of virtual strangers can come up with over a day and a half, and we brought them into in person in DC. We gave them all a little bit of homework up front, So, using my MBA roots, I I recommended a few books. 1 was Blue Ocean strategy. It's a favorite of mine that really at how Cirque du Soleilate put the circus model on its head and turned it into something that was really successful and new and actually cost less than the original circus to deliver because they got rid of the most expensive portion of the circus, which is the animals.

B and they had turned it into an adults back into adult entertainment for the generation that remembers going to the circus when there were three rings and they were children. But really understanding, like, how do you break through it to blue oceans to new ideas? And we asked them to do a little bit of homework up front to try to build cohesion in the teams. And we opened it up the 60 individuals. Maybe I should back up a little bit, but we opened it up to essentially 60 individuals who came through an application process that were interested in talking about the future of architecture, and they shared that Either in video format or through kind of a brief paragraph on on what their vision was for the future. And they also kind of selected where they would like to focus on data and technology on the nonprofit or more people centric, purpose driven side of practice, a social, a socially driven mission, I should say. You know, are they more interested in art and art installation as applied by architecture? Are they more interested in building technology? Are they interested in in product design and product development? So what are you interested in? And we somehow took those and coalesced the teams and created these 10 teams.

C So people applied to this program, and I'm curious what type of professionals you were most interested in inviting to the practice innovation lab.

B So we were really interested in people who had a desire to talk about practice outside of traditional practice. And that is what we keyed them to when we asked them to give us kind of their we called it a manifesto, but what is their future vision or future manifesto on practice? And if they immediately jumped into, like, oh, we need to change how we evolve our construction documents, Like, those were not necessarily the individuals that we invited to participate. So I think they coalesced around this shared this greater shared vision. And they could've they could be they didn't have to be members of the AIA. And in fact, some of the the best feedback we got were for nonmembers of the AIA. And we also invited students, and we also invited a very tenured individuals. So, really, it was a huge open call. The only distinction that somebody had to have was that they had to have had a number of years in architecture or or be familiar with architecture practice.

B or they have had to had some type of architectural education in their background.

C So how do you define this idea of the next generation of practice. What does that mean to you?

B I think all the work that we're doing on practice of architecture is helping to define the next generation of practice. If I knew that, what that was, I would try to bottle it and and sell it and recreate it over and over again. Truth be able to hold, I think the next generation of practice needs to be an ever evolving one. so I don't know if I'm going to land on a a very distinct definition. I've been talking a lot, especially with recent events with COVID about the next generation of practice being a very agile one. But I think it's also one that looks outward as much as it does inward on kind of where can we not only tucked change, but where is change happening that we need to be aware of, that we need to bring back into practice. so I guess, you know, the base the biggest example that would be the move to remote work, right, and the notion that there were definitely other industries out there that had already begun to do that versus architecture, which has really struggled with that. So that wasn't that's probably an area where we could have taken queues to say, like, hey.

B We need to move here sooner

C rather than later. Yeah. I I think it's fair to say that the next generation of practice has been slowly emerging and is it's starting to be defined right now. There have been steps over the past decade towards this, but I would say in more recent years, it seems it's really starting to grow roots, and I'm starting to see a bigger vision behind where we're heading and what's the potential of the next generation of practice. I'm hopeful that the conversations we're gonna have during this 1st season will help us look at the many dimensions of that conversation and what all those facets are. So the team that we're gonna be speaking with in today's episode -- participated in the 1st practice innovation lab and walked away with the people's choice award, and they're gonna be sharing their winning business idea with us And we're gonna ask them questions about their experience in the practice innovation lab. We're also gonna be looking at what it been like since they left the innovation lab, finished that, and they've continued on to develop their business model. And they're gonna be offering tips for those interested in entrepreneurship and architecture, what it's like to run a business and opportunities that you guys can think about for yourselves in terms of thinking outside the box? Yeah.

C I think they have. So each of these individuals, you should know our full time practicing architects.

B What they're doing is developing the Jam Collective, which is their winning business model as a side project. But as all also gone on to win a number of awards. And right now, it's part of a 0 to 60 incubator.

C hosted by Trimble, which acquired Gary Technologies. You know this team pretty well. They're your friends and you watch them go through this program. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about who we're gonna be speaking with today? Yeah. So we're gonna

B speaking to 2 of the six members of the Jam Collective, and I'll follow-up with you in a little bit about what the Jam Collective actually is. But the first, member is Christian Jordan. He is a full time practicing architect in Philadelphia, where he serves as a principal at PGA Architect founded by his father Philip, and he continues to be a tireless advocate for emerging architects and a profession. I actually met him through our involvement at the National AIA. So having graduated from Jefferson University with a b ark in 2005, he has been an adjunct at the university -- college of architecture since 2006. Wow. The year after he graduated. He is currently teaching a course on innovation and professional practice He has awarded the AIA Pennsylvania's emerging professional award in 2017.

B In 2018, he ended a 3 year term as a AIA young architect regional director for Pennsylvania During which time you established the firm's fostering emerging professional recognition award for firms in Pennsylvania that meet criteria demonstrating an effort to support emerging professionals within the firm and in architecture. Our second speaker today is also someone who I've met through the young architects from Abby Brown, aIA as an architect at hicott Cole in Washington, DC, where she works on urban multifamily residential projects at a variety of scales. She received her master of architecture and bachelor of science in architecture degrees from the university in Cincinnati. Abby is a passionate advocate for young architects within the AIA at both the national and local levels. She is a 2020 vice chair and the 2018 2019 community director for the AIA National's young architects forum where she uses her passion for building networks and resource sharing to better connecting emerging professionals, groups around the country. This past year in 2020, Abby has been -- awarded

C the AIA Young Architects Award. And in 2016, she was a winner of the AIA DC Emerging Architect Award. I first met Abby at the AA Leadership Institute back in, I think it was, 2015. And she's gone on and done all kinds of incredible work, both locally with the AIA and DC and nationally with the young architects forum. What stood out to you about the jam collective? Why do you think they were awarded the people's choice award from their peers?

B Yeah. So I wanna talk a little bit about their what they did. They were the People's Choice Award winners because they their piece stood out or was voted on by their peers as as the winning business idea. I think it really stood out as the idea that a lot of their peers would like to be a part of is they had the opportunity to. And what's interesting about the jam collective is that these individuals and the rest of their their other fourteen members are full time practicing architects. And Jam Collective is something that they are developing on this side. So if you wanna talk about being an entrepreneurial architect, and having a side gig, I think this is a perfect example. The other interesting thing is that Jam Collective has gone on to win several awards.

B So in 2018, Jam Collective won the Shorette Venture Group's architectural business plan competition, for its proposal to democratize networks and resources for small firms. We'll talk a little bit more about that. And Jam Collective is also currently part of Trimble 060 Accelerator in the 2019 2020 cohort. So what is Jam? You ask. Jam Collective utilizes technologies and a decentralized network to connect support and open new doors for small to medium sized architecture firms. from its conception at the AIA's practice innovation lab in October of 2017 to today. The Jam Collective has grown from an idea to an ecosystem of 16 architectural firms across 8 States and DC. We should also mention that all of the founders are in different states all across the US.

B The firms range from sole proprietors to 40 plus Person firms, and include expertise and resiliency, historical preservation, adept reuse, and remote practice. The main idea of jam is to bring various different architecture firms together. So that they compete compete at a variety of different scales, including against larger firms. So their mission is to really help small firms say small, act big, and do good.

C We should give a shout out to some of the other founding partners of Jam Collective. So we've got Jared McKnight, who's a long time AS friend of mine, and is based out of California right now, but originally from Pennsylvania. Desmond Johnson is based out of Georgia. Katie Johnson is based out of Michigan, and Mike Englin is in Arizona. Now Christian and Mike are both small firm owners and understand what the day to day management issues are like for small design practices.

B Yeah. And I think each of the rest of the individuals have their own unique roles that they play. And, Christian and Abby will get more into that as well.

C So, Evelyn, I wanted to just pause before we move on to this interview. What was the main inspiration for why you wanted to bring them on and talk to them? Where do you think our listeners can focus their attention in terms of what they might get out of this?

B Yeah. So it's been really interesting to see these guys evolve. Christian has been great every time Jam hits a mother milestone. I get a text out of nowhere saying, Hey, Jam is doing this. Thanks for bringing us together on the practice innovation lab. And they're the only team that has continued out of the practice Innovation Lab, but I think they have done so successfully because it has so much merit and weight as a new idea. but the 6 of them, I think, gelled in a uniquely different way. But more importantly, I've seen them take several pivots.

B with their business plans since they left the practice innovation lab. They actually participated in practice the practice in lab 2, which we just had last year, 2019, at a 19 in Las Vegas, And it was interesting to even see their ongoing development through the the win of the architectural business plan competition with Ceramic Venture Group. So I really wanted them to come on and talk about kind of the struggles that they've had, the pivot have and what it really means to be an architectural entrepreneur while having it, you know, it the joke is the 40 to 60 hour job at a traditional practice. So I'm hoping that they speak to all of that, but we shall see. I'm really interested in the idea of thinking outside the box of architecture.

C And where are emerging professionals in our field starting to do that? I think this is gonna be great case study on ways in which architects can start to develop new ideas for practice. Where are their different opportunities to innovate within what we're already doing. and what does it look like to be an entrepreneurial architect in 2020?

B I'm excited. Let's jump to the interview. So today, we're talking to Christian Jordan and Abby Brown from Jam Collective. Here's a big test for you guys. Do you guys have your 2 minute elevator pitch on Jam? It looks like Christian might be ready to go with that. Yeah.

D Yeah. Sure. So the Jam Collective is a is a decentralized network of small to medium sized architecture firms that leverages technology and, an ecosystem to allow small firms to to stay small, act big, and do good. and we we provide that opportunity by offering resources to small firms that large firms typically have in house while also serving as a facilitator and a conduit for other like minded firms to partner up, augment RFPs, go after bigger projects or projects that they may not be able to tackle themselves. within their own firm, while also providing jam grants in the way of revenue that can be offset for perhaps pro bono services that firms within their community may want to apply for, and that's the the do good part. And that's always been

C central to the jam collective since the innovation lab. I just I'm really curious because I know you all did a lot of research going into this. And I was wondering, like, how far did you pivot from your original idea that you were bringing into the practice innovation lab?

E I think like Christian mentioned before, one thing that was always there was our desire to do work that really had a public impact component to it. Even when we were thinking of this architect as developer concept, our idea was to figure out a way to take the profit from that business model and invest them into community, social impact driven projects that we could do on our own. Like, we I think we talked about, like, putting grocery stores in urban areas where there's food deserts, for example. So that thread stuck with us as we pivoted into jam, but we really completely left the developing our own projects component to the side. I'm really pivoted completely away from that.

D We had done research somewhere than others. I'll put myself kind of at the lower end of that, but there are 6 architects all showing up on a team with their idea of how the future of architecture practice should look. and that was something else that we had to quickly sift through. I think our team worked great just because we were able to check our egos at the door. efficiently figure out who was best suited for what task in in a much larger group setting. And I think as architects, you know, it's it's part of what we do day in and day out. So having the humility to just say, look, the 6 of us are going to come up with something better than each of us individually and having 6 different ideas, was, I think, also part of our success.

C Sounds like you guys had a lot of really good collaboration and a good process for making decisions throughout the entire evolution of the idea. I guess the other thing I really wanted you to tee up for us is I'm curious to hear also about the process of getting ready for the pitch and then getting up there and doing the pitch. Can you just pay that a little bit more, descriptively for us?

E So at some point, we broke for dinner. I think it was probably, like, 6 or 7 PM. So we really, like, 3 PM, we had this meeting with Susan Chen. Hit the wall, like, ripped everything down. There's even this photo of me that tweeted on the AIA National Twitter account, and I'm, like, making this frowny face and, like, leading up against the wall. I was like, that is, like, exactly the moment, like, right after we ripped everything down and started over. So it really, like, the genesis of the idea for jam happened probably within 3 hours we had figured out what our concept was gonna be and workshop it and worked it through. So by the time we broke for dinner, I feel like we had it pretty much outlined.

E So after dinner, we came back and had, I think, a few more hours. I think 17 76, which was the location we were closed at 10 PM. So I think we had a few more hours there. And we decided, made a strategic decision to have only one person speak. So every team was allowed to have up to 3 speakers, but we decided that one voice in a really consistent, like, concise presentation would be more impactful than having 3 of us out there and having to figure out how to split it up. So Katie, who was one of our co founders. She's based in Detroit. She said, I will be the person that speaks.

E So we've sort of split up at that point, and we had a couple of people go into a room and work on the graphics for our 5 slide 5 slides. And then Katie and I sat in a different area and worked through the script. And then we sort of, like, went back and forth with each other to compare And so that process of getting the script kind of hammered out and the slides hammered out probably took a few more hours. And then when 17 76 closed, they kicked us out. We all went back to the hotel lobby, and like sat around some, some chairs and just made sure that it was polished. And then Katie went back to her room and somehow memorized that speech. that night and came in and, like, rocked it the next morning.

D Yeah. I think now is probably, an appropriate time to kind of mention the other other co founders and that we actually had our name jam before we got the innovation lab. Remember Abby? We were kicking around ideas for our names and one of us figured out that the acronym of our last names, Desmond Johnson, myself, Mike Anglin, Jared McKnight, Katie Miller, who is now Katie Johnson, but no relation to Desmond and Abby Brown, it all makes jam in the architectural sense. j a m b. So we were we were jammed, when we showed up, I think we even had business cards, and that was Jared's thing. So as we're talking and as we're working through all of this, we realized that, you know, Abby and I have our roles. Katie had a background in business. So she was very instrumental in kind of pushing the business side of of the discussion.

D Desmond was the the group skeptic. he didn't believe anything we said until we convinced him. And he he played such a such a crucial role in making sure that we were not hyping ourselves up with empty thoughts or just, you know, well spoken ideas. So once we convince Desmond, coming out of that 3 PM wall, that's when I knew we really had something. Once once the light went on above the husband's head and he said, yeah. I can get behind this. You know, we got some holes, but but I think we can get this. That's when I knew we had something.

D Mike Anglin, he's also a small firm owner, and he's very good at getting his ideas out very quickly in a way that everybody else around them can digest them and react to them. And Jared, who's also from was from Philadelphia. I knew him through some AA events, who's now out at USC getting his masters, but he was the graphics guy. So he worked through the graphics. I was the numbers guy. We had to convince Desmond. We're talking to Abby and Katie as they worked through the the pitch. and it just kind of came together.

D And to Katie's credit, she memorized it, and she got up on stage by herself and no, note cards and just rocked it. And throughout throughout the whole time, I'm thinking, this could be something. You know, this could be something. Like, this team just keeps rising to the occasion, and it was really, really a fun fun experience.

B That makes an amazing segue for us. so, obviously, a lot of teens left the practice innovation lab, and they just kind of left it where it was. Right? You guys made a very conscientious decision to not only still stay together and pursue it, but since then, you win and you you won the Shorette, Venture Group's architectural business plan competition, you're now a part of the 060 accelerator out of the treble group working your way there. So and you actually participated, you know, Abby and Mike have participated in practice innovation lab too. So just from 2017, you talked about the the 1st major kind of pivot away from architect as developer. How has Jam kind of evolved since the practice innovation lab? you know, and and what type of big pivots have you made since then?

D So coming out of the innovation lab and looking at the numbers, 21,000 architecture firms, 6% of them have 50 or more people. That same 6% accounts for 52% of architectural billings, you know, those numbers we felt really comfortable with, and we thought left the the lab thinking, well, we'll just get the other 19,000 firms to sign up, and we'll be, we'll be off to the races, and we'll have this incredible membership, and it'll be great, and it'll be lean, and it'll be fast and innovative. And once we started to really get into the business model, going after that, the Sure Adventure Group competition and and talking them off ourselves and with other entrepreneurs, we realized how small that addressable market really is of 19,000 firms. So I think the the one of the first pivots was how do we broaden the scope of the network and be more inclusive? and we've since thought about bringing in other design disciplines into your designers, landscape architects. And then we thought, well, maybe this to be more of a real estate venture where we have the consulting engineers that are part of this, you know, our other real estate sub components part of the network and are we we facilitating that. So that's been one of the bigger pivots has looked much broader than just we cater to architects. and how do we stay on message? How do we, you know, keep the the culture there? And then the second one that I've seen is the the tech technology component, we feel is really key, and this, I think, the Trimble accelerator has something to do with it, is how do you leverage technology in a way that small and medium sized architecture firms and the firms that are members of network can really have a seamless experience within that ecosystem. And that's something that our our efforts have really been pushing lately.

D so those are kind of the two things that I've noticed. since October of 2017?

E I think we'll probably get to this, but the situation we're in now with this pandemic and people are are really working remotely to an extent that has never really happened before has helped push things along a little bit you know, my my day job, my office, we had to adopt the technology to work remotely, like, I mean, basically overnight And so now that it's becoming so much more common for people to work remotely, the fact that we've been working as Jam with our co founders over the past few years remotely, it's not as big of a surprise to us, and we kind of know how to do it. But now that it's becoming more mainstream. I think it's opening the doors for more and more firms to feel comfortable starting to collaborate with each other even if they're not you know, in the same city or or the same office space. So I think that there's a lot of potential right now to really push this further ahead. And so we wanna make sure that we're we're addressing this in the in the best way possible. but I think that we were setting up a really great way for us to move forward and grow.

B That was actually one of the questions we were going to ask kind of how have current events changed your approach. And, you know, to what extent If you're willing to talk about it, are you taking this time? Because everyone's wearing multiple hats right now, but but have you taken this time to kind of ramp up things for jam because of the events. And then how has the network responded if if at all? in terms of, like, what jam can do to support it at this time?

D So we put a lot of effort recently into signing up new firms, reaching out to firms, and I think that, some of the speaking engagements that we've done recently, Evelyn, we were on that panel together, for AA Los Angeles. We've seen a lot of interest from across the country. in small and medium sized firms. We're learning firms, you know, 48, 49 people, right at that 50 threshold that are really interested and we're making sure that we're putting the time in to to vet those firms, to talk to them, to make sure that their principles, the core values of those firms align with with jams and make sure that that network, that ecosystem that we're building out is something that we all believe in. To the extent that we can we can get in front of firms and introduce them, we are, but one of the things that we've really kind of started to drill down into is how do you make partnerships effective so that when firms show up at a project pitch, will respond to an RFP. They don't have to deal with the question of why are you partnered? Why don't I just hire a large firm? Why am I talking to 2 firm principles? Who's my point of contact? And why can't I just go with the very large firm? that may not have a headquarters here, but we know them. So that's something that we've taken personally as a charge for jam, the jam collective, to be able to empower its members, to be able to answer those questions and be prepared when the time comes. So yeah, that's that's been something that that I think this current climate has allowed us to do is really kind of focus in addition to be full time architects, seem, thankfully, we're all still employed in trying to keep things going there.

D this has definitely given us an opportunity to reach out to firm principals get them on the phone, get them on a Zoom call, or a video conference because we know who everybody is, and they know where we are, you know, where it used to take anywhere from, like, 5 to 7 days for any of us to respond. You know, it can be, you know, in the next day, you know, or that day. that we can get in, in front of a a firm principal and then quickly introduce them to other firms within the network where we think that they're expertise either might align or augment or, you know, have similar ideas with practice. That's been that's been something we've been able to do.

E something else that we're we're starting to look at is thinking about really the the future of our industry and for a long time, architects have always been sort of these generalists. Like, we know a little about lots of different things. I know that I just coordinated something in my building that's under construction, but I didn't really fully understand it, but, you know, you call up the mechanical consultant and they walk you through it. So you just have to know enough to connect the dots. And there's a bit of a shift now where we're starting to think about people who are more specialists. So things like getting to net 0 how do we really make an impact on sustainability, resiliency, looking forward and into the future and, you know, really rising to those challenges? And for small firms, Christian mentions this all the time, they don't have the capacity to really have an in house research and development department. or even have, you know, one person just looking into trends and figuring out what's next. And so having this collection of small firms enables us to find experts in different parts of the industry and have those people available to multiple firms.

E So lots of small firms can share in that expert knowledge so that they have access to more of those experts, whether it's in, you know, artificial intelligence, resiliency, like I mentioned, we were talking the other day about maybe like hiring a drone reader. So if somebody needs to like go take photos from a certain elevation above the ground, they could like have access to that in a way that they couldn't ordinarily.

C Yeah. I'm I'm really glad you brought up the point about, generalist versus specialist Abby because I do think that that's one of the trends that I've been seeing. I think historically, the idea of architect as the generalist was pretty common. And now I think based on the last recession specialization and the expectation for architects to have, you know, 10 k through 12 schools of a certain size in order to go after that type of project, is the new norm. And so I do think that, from a competitive standpoint, being able to align with different types of firms that might be able to offer complimentary portfolio pieces that will allow a firm to go after projects they otherwise might not be qualified for is a huge opportunity within the type of work that you guys are doing.

E An example that we often bring up is one of our co founders, Mike, who's out in Arizona, he has a really strong history or or knowledge base in designs for animals, like veterinary clinics, zoos, something that's very specialized. And I think he would be really interested in partnering with another firm in another city that maybe needs some of his expertise, but that he doesn't have experience in that city, finding a way to pair his experience with animal care architecture with somebody in another city who has experience in that jurisdiction is like a perfect marriage because he's got the portfolio, the other firm doesn't, but the other firm has experience, in that city or town, it it's like the perfect pairing. And so figuring out how we can make that work is is really getting at the gist of what we're trying to do.

B That's actually a really great story, but I wanted to pivot a little bit in the from the conversation because obviously you guys are all a full time practicing architects. So where do you find the energy to, you know, and and Christian is also a parent you know, I know I know how that feels right now. So what's really driving you guys, and where do you find the energy and the time of the day to to work on this, especially now, but, you know, at at all.

D I think the energy comes from just having a belief that we're on kind of the precipice of doing something something good, something worthwhile. It's something that we've all believed in coming out of the innovation lab. And and we believe in each other. I remember somebody made a comment at dinner that night, before the the presentation was the next morning that somebody made a comment that we were all still sitting together having dinner and that there were a lot of teams that couldn't wait to just have some alone time or be separate separated Whereas the 6 of us just had this camaraderie and this this this shared, you know, goal of of seeing this thing through and that energy can take you a long way, just today to jam groundbreaker applications came through. and just to see those show up in your inbox. Lifts your spirits. It reminds you of, you know, that there are people out there that that also believe in what you're doing. They're almost relying on you to bring this to market to be something of value.

D And then finding the time, you know, Evelyn, you know, when you have, I have a six year old, who's running around and he's not not in school, and we're we're doing our best to the home school and my wife is working and she's home, and it's just just kinda find the time. And and this goes back to the education of an architect, doing as much as you can with the time allocated and being efficient, and giving yourself, you know, those those moments to have, you know, real fast burns but also, you know, make sure, you've got time to recharge, and you just do it. I'm sure Abby can can speak to the same.

E Yeah. I mean, I wanna say that it's it's not easy, and it hasn't been easy. And I I think it's important to acknowledge that that All six of us are very busy, and it it hasn't been as as seamless as I think. I personally would like it to be. we do kind of what Christian's getting at is we'll apply for an accelerator, or we'll do, the practice innovation lab 2.0 at the difference that we did last year. Having these, like, mini deadlines, because we're architects, we all procrastinate Right? And so having a deadline means, okay, we gotta, like, take it up a notch and really focus on this for, like, small chunks of time. We've had since the Innovation Lab, we've done 2 annual meetings, not with all 6 of us, but each time there's been, I think, 3, both times. where we'll get together in the city and just, like, work together for the day just to, like, hammer things out in person.

E which I think is really nice, and it's it is something I'm missing with work this working remotely all the time thing is that you don't have those opportunities to just sit and, like, spit ball ideas in the same way that you can do in person. So that's really helped, but it it really is a roller sir. Like, sometimes we're, like, all in, like, full full steam ahead, and then we'll, we'll, like, need to take a break. And luckily, it kind of works out that we're not all on the same roller coaster path at the same time. So if I'm kind of peaking and starting to, like, need to take a break Christians there and, like, he's on the upswing. And so that helps. You know, doing it alone, I think, would be a lot harder, but the fact that we have this team component means that we can pick up the pieces for each other when someone needs to take a break.

B Christian, you mentioned jam groundbreakers and applications coming in. So how do firms participate now? Like, what if they are really interested in, you know, staying small acting big, doing good, what can they expect out of the jam collective right now and the application process? Yeah. Sure. So, jamcollective.com,

D and there will be multiple links any you can click on to get to the the groundbreaker application, and that's what we're calling our beta phase where firms, if they're interested, we wanna hear from you send us, you know, the quick little application. It's a type form. You know, just a little bit about yourself, and then we'll follow-up. We'll set a time for a video conference or a phone call. Abby or myself or both of us will be there. We'll talk through how their firm is structured, where they see themselves growing, what they think they can bring to Jam, how can Jam facilitate, and and augment their services. And then, you know, as that's happening, we're we also have our running the firms that are already in the network and where we think there might be some strategic partnerships and and who we might wanna introduce and you know, that's kind of kind of where we are at the moment. We have a a quick one page, kind of terms of of services that we ask firms to sign off on.

D It's nothing nothing big, but it's really just a good faith agreement that, you know, we'd like to be able to promote the firm principles, the firms, what they're doing, you know, they're free to use jam, as being part of the network and trying to really drill into how firms can benefit from being part of the jam collective. That's like what this groundbreaker phase about.

C And so what confirms expect, like, when they first get involved with you guys as a possible deliverable that they might get?

D they're gonna get a chance to talk to to Abby and myself, or any of the other founders that are available. We will then create a document that they can then reference with other firms. It lives in the cloud. Other firms as they become part of the the collective. It's broken out geographically, firm size, what their interests are, we also ask firms where they would like to go, but say they don't have any experience in the animal kingdom. like, like, Mike's firm does. you know, that can be something that that they flag. You know, we'd be happy to to make that connection.

D We also wanna know what resources they may not have in house, but they would like to have access to so that we can start to build out, you know, the suite of consultants and and and staff that we have in house providing those those resources back to those

C Yeah. As a small firm owner, I think that is really attractive because I know most will say that they are their time is really limited they're stretched in a lot of different ways. So having partnerships to kind of strategically think about those things is very valuable.

D Yeah. And and for for Mike and myself being small firm owners, you know, we kind of live it. So we understand where the pain points are. And then Abby Katie, Desmond, and Jared being at larger firms, they can see how the larger firms handle it. And then also sometimes, you know, you peel the curtain back and you realize it's not not really done any better there. It's just a scale thing. So, kind of demystifying some of that for those of us that do have small firms. And, you know, we want we want firms to let us know you know, where they're doing things well so that we can help, you know, pass that around and and help all all the firms out.

B So we talked a little bit about the technology play. And Christian, you mentioned kind of the user experience of what you would hope that would be. I don't know if you'd wanna talk about it at all and and kind of how that's continuing to evolve.

D Yeah. happy to because it's almost like you speak it. You put it out in the universe, and then people can either hold you accountable for it or it becomes something. but this this is part and parcel of the the 060 accelerator coming out of Trimble, understanding how technology is already being utilized in the AEC space and and where Jam might be able to to bring, you know, some real technological power, to the network and and in designing the platform that we're working on. Going back to kind of that seamless comment that we want it to be something that either sits on your desktop or is a mobile app where your firm, you get an RFP, you can drag that over to your jam application, And on the the back end, it's sifting through the RFP. It's looking at the database that we've compiled of member firms, and it's returning to you from connections that we think or the jam things would be advantageous. for you to look at. the other part, you know, kind of in in playing out an example, you get a proposal or a contract from a developer or a potential client, big client, you are not familiar with all the language in it.

D you drag that, over to your your jam application, it then sifts through what's in there and makes recommendations on what language you might wanna add as a small firm, you know, architect, what language you might wanna have a conversation with. You know, some of that's happening right now in an analog way with lawyers that we have relationships with who are in the AEC space. but we really want this to be something that you're thinking of and it's top of mind. It comes in, our fee comes in, an opportunity comes in, where you go over and you can search and those firms that are already there in the space where you might want to be or have the resources, available that you might not they're there. They're ready, for you to be connected with. So that's that's kind of how we see the technology PDs playing a role in this. I can tell you from a marketing standpoint, that is a brilliant idea because so often in teaming situations,

C we're always trying to figure out, okay, who we Who could we go in on this with and how can we complement our expertise and just being able to skip that time loss of searching and trying to figure out who do you know that's at that firm if you don't already know someone would be a game changer because I think it would just expedite the process and allow teams to pick up more speed on the actual production of putting the proposals and the interviews together.

D Yeah. And and we we recognize that within small firms, they can still be doing things as good or better than large firms it's just at that scale to be able to do all of it is difficult. So, we had a firm, in California reach out early on they do marketing really well. You go to their website. All their projects are photographed really nicely. They have a great write up. That marketing department can become a resource for other small firms, but it goes back to, as an architecture firm, as a design firm, how can you leverage your expertise to add value to other other firms? And it's not a 0 sum game. It's not you hold on to all of it, and now somehow you're the best on the block, it's all of us kind of working towards towards a similar goal.

C As practicing architects, like, what do you guys see is The number one thing that's shifting in the industry from your perspective.

E I don't know if this is my top one, but something that's really on my mind a lot is the future of BIM. And, you know, are we gonna continue making drawing sets in the way that we do now, or is our or bit model going to become something that is used as a as a fabrication tool are the contractors we work with, like they want our models. There's constantly a battle over if the model is a construction document or not, and the answer is no, you have to build off of our drawings, but that tension I think has been building for a decade, and I think it's gonna come to a head pretty soon. So I'm, I'm definitely curious to see how that shakes out, especially since architects. You know, we have lawyers, and our lawyers don't want us to allow the our models to even go go out into the world without us scrubbing them first and getting all kinds of, of disclaimer signed. So I'm really curious about where that goes, and I I think that's gonna have to get sorted out pretty soon.

D I think the future of architecture, the answer probably lies somewhere out side of architecture. I have good friends with a an ER doctor in Philadelphia, and he teaches design thinking to medical students. And he's constantly looking at architecture in the design fields as how he can bring that information in, that experience, at education in to help his medical students. And I think that architects can learn from practices and innovation outside of architecture, I used to teach computer programming, to architecture students, and then I got old entire started working on other things. but this idea that we can all borrow from that, which is outside of of us and our expertise, I think, is where, you know, the real future lies. So part of our charge within Jam is also looking at how are other areas, practices, markets weathering this particular crisis that we're in? but also what are they doing to kind of set themselves up for the future in what ways could architecture be learning from that?

C That's beautiful because I was literally gonna ask you what you thought the responsibility of an architect is to think outside of the box. So I think you nailed it on that one.

B Yes. I wanna be wary of time. I know we're at the top of the hour, but my last question, I guess, to you too is if I'm an architect out there with a new idea, kind of what are words of encouragement or kind of advice that you can offer them going forward.

E Okay. So I would say, don't be afraid. So if you have an idea and you're really passionate about it, don't let yourself be too afraid to take the next steps. So I think for me, when we started jam and decided to go forward with it, there was a bit of a mental block that I had where I didn't feel like I could start a business. I think it might have been easier for Christian and definitely, like, Mike our other co founder who is also a small firm owner because you were already doing it, or you were around people that had also started businesses, whereas I grew up, in a blue collar family. Nobody had really started a business, so that seemed like something that was unattainable for me. And so just getting through that mental hurdle, like, no, it's like you can do this. fine.

E I think getting there was pretty tough for me, but I'm really glad that I did it. So I'd recommend find other people who are also passionate about your like, new, okay, this is how we get an LLC. This is what we need to do. And so having that meant that I could focus on other things, that were important to me that I didn't have those skills necessarily already set. So definitely partner with other people Don't be scared. Just go for it. Do your best to try to keep your your your life balance It is hard having a day job doing something like this on the side, keeping your sanity take breaks when you need to, but just try to try to stay motivated and make sure you know that you can do it.

D Yeah. Abby, you make a good point about being an entrepreneur. And I I never even thought of my my dad as being 1. having started his own firm, I just assume that's something you did growing up, but we all have an entrepreneurial spirit, you know, and and particularly the younger generations, you know, there there's always this. We all have good ideas, but an idea isn't really worth anything until you can kind of put it into practice and show people that there is value. I think if you have an idea, one of the best things you can do to save yourself a lot of trouble and time wasted is find somebody who thinks it's a bad idea and talk to them. And don't take don't take their comments personally that'll help you grow the fastest. If you bounce around and everybody you talk to thinks it's a great idea, you're probably not talking to enough people, but you haven't where they're lying to you, but let's let's assume for a second that they they they all like you and love you enough to not lie to you.

D but find people who disagree, and can do it respectfully and push you to think through that idea so that you can come to something tangible as quickly as possible so that you can test it. You can vet it. you can break it. that to me is what saved us a lot of of headache and just time wasted and nights thinking we should do something. And then it never coming to fruition is having Desmond on the team, like our resident skeptic, basically just questioning everything has been really, really helpful. And then the last thing Personally, one of the things I try to do is at least once a year, and this is part of the reason that that I had applied for the innovation lab, was do something that gets you outside of the office outside of your comfort zone, maybe outside of your city, your state, but do something where you're exposed to other people and their ideas, and it may not have to be within design or architecture. I I did a a health designed boot camp that was part of a a university in the city just to do it. And I was the only architect there.

D I was with a lot of other education and medical, students and and professionals, but just the ideas that we were able to kick around and see that, you know, We're not all that much different, and there are a lot of similar problems, but we all have, like, Abby said, unique skill sets and how do we how do we leverage that? So Do it. Believe in yourself. find somebody who doesn't believe in the idea, and you'll you'll be alright.

E I'd even say try to to make some friends who aren't architects. That's been hard for me, like most of my friends are in this profession. and I meet a lot of them on my free time with AIA stuff. But when you start getting into this different kind of hybrid world, you almost need to learn a new language. Like, when people start throwing around terminology from the tech industry, And I just stand there. Like, I have no idea what that word even means, but it's clearly something that all of you know, being around something other than architecture will help open up your mind a little bit more and also help you just learn how to talk to other people and get your ideas across using different kinds of language than we use within our internal industry.

D That's a great point, Abby. I'll I'll kinda end with this, that I tell my students this, that we as architects, we are trained problem solvers. and those of us that have been in it long enough and are jaded and somehow feeling like, you know, this is exactly what our jaded professors told us life was gonna be like when we were in school. We have a unique skill set to solve real problems. And if your idea has legs and and and is is adding value to solve a problem, keep going. You know, don't forget the things that that you learn on how to work through an idea, iterate through it, bend it, break it, put it back together, and and test it. So, you know, you're you're armed with a lot more skills, and sometimes we we realize.

B Janine, I I think this is your first deep dive on the jam collective. So I would be interested in getting your initial thoughts on what they had to say and some of your bigger takeaways.

C Yeah. I was really inspired listening to them. I mean, first of all, you have two people who are very excited about the work that they're doing. And so much so that they're working on architecture projects during the day, and in their spare time, they're working on their business at night. So it was interesting to hear, I think the transformation about not only getting selected to go to the practice innovation lab, but also -- all of the pre work that went into what they were doing. They came ready to innovate with business cards in hand and came up with a concept and realized basically at the end of the day, yeah, but, they had to scratch it all, which -- The 9th hour. too. I mean, who hasn't been on a deadline where you're heading down a path, and then you hit a wall and realize you have to rethink your plan.

C But then for them to come back so strong and complete the goal of coming up with an innovative concept, I'm really inspired by that. And all the work they're to do even after they left the practice innovation lab to launch the business and grow the business. Right.

B One of the takeaways that I want everyone to be aware of is obviously that entrepreneurship is is not an easy process. It's a it's a hard process, and it's not straightforward. It's surprising to me a little bit that more architects aren't entrepreneurs because if you think about the design process and kind of all the risks that we take, putting ourselves out there. during design. If you can apply that same theory or the same notion to business, You know, and and come at it with the same level of of energy realizing that there will peep people out there that will love it and people out there that will hate it. I don't know. I think there's a lot more parallels between the design process and being an entrepreneur than I actually truly realized from a process standpoint?

C I think that's a really good point, and I agree because entrepreneurs trained in architecture are certainly using design thinking to figure out their business model and the value they're adding with their clients. So when you think about the processes around a business, there's so many things systems related to consider. And entrepreneurs end up designing either intentionally or unintentionally a complex series of systems that work together to operate the business. So while a business is more of an abstract, I than a building, it draws many parallels to the idea of building, an architectural project. And in terms of risk, the same can be said, When an architect comes up with an incredible design and they're looking to take on a new challenge within what they're creating, they're also lot of similarities to the journey of an entrepreneur who is trying to create something through

B the design of business that ultimately creates value. Right. And I think another lesson here, learn, and Christian mentioned it multiple times is, you know, put your idea out there. Test the waters. I think architects, historically, we've had this very fearful culture of sharing And maybe that maybe maybe and you can tell me if I'm wrong. I mean, maybe that's even built into studio culture, right, where you don't where you you kinda do heads down and and and hopefully that's changed since I left college. But you're you there's there's There's definitely, like, a level of competition felt amongst your peers. Right? And that's true of architecture firms and business today.

B I think one thing one of the lessons that I learned out of business school, and I don't know if you learned it, it was, you know, the more you put your idea out there, it's it's kind of speaking it to fruition, but it you test it a lot quicker, and you can set yourself up to make those changes To be more aware of the changes that you need to make sooner rather than later.

C I think the gem collective is such a great example of a team dynamic that works. because every person on the team had a role and every person brought something to the table to benefit the project. So that was another takeaway for me is looking for ways to collaborate and thinking a bit more about how collaboration shows up in projects. So when you say there's a lack of sharing, can you expand on that a bit more? I mean, where do you see that showing up? No. I mean, I think there's a lack of sharing

B ideas between firms, which I'm of the mindset that rising tides kind of raise all ships. I've actually seen a lot more of that happening very recently, just a certain level of transparency that I haven't seen in the industry before when it comes to talking about new ideas or how firms are doing things differently. When applied to entrepreneurship, though, the one of the biggest takeaways that I learned is that you kind of speak your idea into manifestation. Like, the more people that you can share it with, be it an idea with in your work, if they're okay with side gigs, to friends, to family, to people that you are literally just not working with, and you've just met and you wanna say, hey. I have this idea about the profession. Let me throw it out to you. I feel like the more you speak it, the more it becomes kind of manifested in itself. You generally want to put more energy behind seeing it manifested.

C So kind of get out there and share, and don't be afraid to, like, tell people about what you're doing. I liked what Christian had to say about looking at the opportunities to fill the gaps within a small business through strategic partnership. where otherwise a firm might miss an opportunity because they don't qualify. He mentioned that one firm might have a really strong company department or another firm might be missing information on a certain building typology. Jam collective allows small firms to be agile. And that way, they don't have to, have it all figured out as a small business, but can leverage and learn from the talents of the community of Jam to grow their business. And in that way, Jam collective offers a very innovative approach.

B Absolutely. And then we can do a lot more collectively, I think, is the biggest takeaway.

C Exactly. And As an entrepreneur, their business idea is exciting. I'm gonna be really excited to know when they mature a bit more Any case studies that are success stories where those strategic partnerships and opportunities developed in the long run? Yeah. But if you're interested

B in joining now, I would encourage all of our listeners to head to jamcollective.com. and apply to be a gem, groundbreaker. I hope that each of you have gotten as much out of this conversation as Janine, you and I have today. So any is there any final takeaway that you would like our listeners to tune in?

C If You're an entrepreneur, you know, or even if you aspire to be 1 and you're practicing in architecture, there is a community of like minded peers here, and we're all learning how to build our businesses. So we'd love to hear from you. We wanna build that community up and foster that next generation of entrepreneurial leaders within our industry. Don't hesitate to reach out and share what you're doing with us. Absolutely. We are always happy to have more voices on practice disrupted and practice of architecture.

B Thanks for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Visit us at Practice Disruptive dotcom. to find out more about future episodes and the changing nature of practice. This show is part of the Gable Media podcast network, You can learn more about other podcasts in our community by visiting gablmedia.com. If you enjoy the show and want to hear more content like this, You can help us by leaving a rating, review, and subscribing on your favorite podcast app. Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to know what other topics or speakers you are interested in hearing about. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.