Investing in What’s Next, the Spatial Syndicate

A This episode of Practice Disrupted is supported by Monograph, the cloud based practice operation solution built for architects by architects. I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hi, Janine.

A Hi, Evelyn. Hi, listeners.

B So a few of our past guests, for those of you who have been listening to Practice Disrupted, Including Leona and Kat have talked about how they are investors in the tech space and have alluded to being part of the spatial syndicate. Today, we are gonna drill down with one of our partners, George Valdez, about what the spatial syndicate actually is.

A Before we get started, Evelyn, why did you wanna explore this conversation further?

B So I think the world of investment In startups and venture capital, and angels is relatively unexplored in architectural practice, let alone talked about. And it is actually a real mechanism to see if there's an opportunity to get capital, to turn ideas into reality. You know, there's obviously various different risk profiles that people align themselves to and decide when they want to invest. So some will need to make sure that your idea is a little bit more formed. But since we've had so many past guests talk about not only their interesting careers, but To also talk about the syndicate, I thought it would be interesting to address it head on.

A Great. I'll jump in with George's bio. George Valdez leads the marketing team at Monograph and co leads the spatial syndicate along with Kat Dov, Leona Huddleston, and Federico Negro. Before joining Monograph, George was part of the global growth strategy team at WeWork. He holds an m mark from Columbia University, Graduate School of Architecture, planning, and preservation, and a b arc from Florida International University.

B Wonderful. Let's Let's cut to the interview. So, George, we are really thrilled to have you on. And, you know, we've brought on Several individuals from Monograph, but for various different reasons. And we actually are bringing you on to Talk to something that our previous podcast guests have alluded to, which is the spatial syndicate. But before we dive in, can you give us a little bit about Your history and your background, what you're doing today, and why on earth would you start a spatial syndicate?

C I love how, like, when you say people allude to it, it reminds me of a James Bond film of, like, the spatial syndicate is, like, this crime organization.

A It does Sound like that a little bit.

C People hint at it. It's like, what is this? People have sort of tattoos on their arms.

B Yeah. If you even have a a logo, now you need to like that nondescript logo.

C Yeah. We actually we we should totally get it. So a little bit of background. We basically, Born and raised in the Cuban community of Hialeah, Florida. Represent always. And, my undergraduate, it was a bachelor of landscape architecture edify you. And then I went to Columbia for the masters of architecture degree from 2009 to 2012. It was that during that time that I met some some of the people that, sort of are in the circle.

C I think you've had Dave Dano as a previous guest, and he's someone that I got to meet while he was still teaching there. And, yeah, I met my partner in life there too. So it was a very, very, fruitful For full time. After that, I basically went into the world of startups. Because when I graduated, I got brought on board to run the accreditation for the school. So I dive so deeply into NAB that I left the profession going through that process. It was just it it was very eye opening. The the highlight being that So much of what architects are trained in could be useful outside of the profession.

C And about, like, 80 85% of what you learn Through, you know, the accredited program would run circles around people in an MBA program. And so That plus having just an entrepreneurial itch, I I went into startups and and spent some time in different ones from Google Glass being one of the first partners with Google To bring Google Glass to factories and warehousing. I was running product at Iris VR. And, yes. Spent some time at different startups like Paperspace, consulted for a bit, and then ended up at WeWork where I got to run A program basically, you could think of it as like, opening up new markets with showrooms to try to presale upcoming buildings. And that was a a a whirlwind of a time. It's during that time, I was still advising startups, and one of which was Monograph Well, I met through I met to have the the founders through Twitter. I met Moe, I think, first through Twitter.

C And then, by that time, My wife happens also to work at WeWork. We moved to San Francisco, and that's where I got to meet the rest of the architect y community. I had already been building a community with, Adrian Van Der Asten in New York, called Built In. And that had about a a 1000 something members on on as a meetup group. It made sense. Architects is a much better brand than built in. It it resonated more deeply with what we're trying to do so we we joined forces with the architect key crew. And, yeah.

C I think I think it was about a year ago where A couple of us at Negro, Leona Huddleston, who's one of the the main founders of of Architeckee, and Kate Dott Kattov, and myself, we just kinda were like, hey. We've been meeting very interesting companies. Why don't we, You know, join forces collectively and try to start something where called the the spatial syndicate. And at a high level, what that is It's essentially a vehicle by which the industry can invest in the disruptive technologies that will change it. Essentially, we our thesis is predicated that architects and, similar Disciplines are all leading something called spatial design. And spatial technologies in general are all over the the place now. I mean, You could think of Uber as having the need for spatial design. You could think of, you know, all the things that are now happening in the real world Would benefit from having people that were educated in dealing with those issues.

C And and the spatial syndicate itself, so we we basically Look at new companies that are trying to tackle real world issues at different scales. I'd say Deal ideal is a weird word, but ideally, it's like led by a a former architect or a spatial you know, it's part of a like, step back and say a spatial designer of some sort For someone really interested in the built environment, the the challenges don't have to be directly related to, let's say, traditional architecture engineering construction challenges, like supply chain and whatnot? They can definitely expand beyond that. Like, for instance, we have 1 company we've we've been working closely with That is trying to bring screens like a, you know, mirror or a Peloton, those type of, like, interactive displays, But for home organization. And, the hearth display team is is really what they're doing is really fascinating. And I it you know, Not has nothing to do with AEC, but it's something that lives in the home, interacts with people in a spatial way, and it's also founded cofounded by, an architect.

B So I think I wanna get back to what you guys are doing and who you're founding with the spatial syndicate because it's really interesting. But I also Want to step the conversation back a little bit. So first of all, what is angel investing? Right? A lot of people, Like, hear about angels, but I I don't I don't know if they necessarily understand the risk associated with being an angel investor and what that means And why you would actually wanna be an angel investor. And then, you know, how does that transition to, like, what an actual syndicate is? And syndicate, I I don't want people to misconstrue, like, the spatial syndicate as, like, the syndicate being, just As part of your cool name, like, there's an actual terminology as as to what a syndicate is. So why don't you start there with, like, what an angel investor is, and why why people would take the risk they do, being an angel investor.

C So legally, an angel investor typically or is defined as Someone who an individual who has a net worth of over \$1,000,000 or has an income of I think it's yeah. It's 202 100 k as an individual or 300 k as a unit. So those are 2 of the of the criteria. There's actually another criteria that's possible where you can, pass a series 65, which is a test that, more well known in Wall Street that can also classify you as an accredited investor, which is our in backup, angel investor should be an accredited investor, and these are the definitions for accredited investor. So the what the syndicate is is basically, not the same as a venture fund, which would be an actual company that looks that deploys capital through these, what they call, Limited partners to then invest, you know, and we start over a certain period of time. It's much more tactical. So with a syndicate, it's the 4 of us. We look at deals that come in, companies that come to us saying, hey.

C We're looking for to raise x amount of money for certain for for what what have you. And we will through AngelList, to the the specific platform, we have a network of what they call at least limited partners. These people who have capital to deploy That could be anything from an individual to a family office to something else. But they then will invest into a specific company through us. And Through Wasing is essentially we form a special entity, a special purpose vehicle that then is the owner of that. So what what's the benefit of this in general? The benefit is, as a syndicate, we don't have to create a comp or formalize a company. Right? It's just What we do have to do is formalize a network and a community of people that are interested in investing in the this thesis. Moreover, I think the other benefit is For the entrepreneur, they don't have to raise money from a 100 angel investors and then have a cap table.

C Basically, how equity is distributed within the the company, a 100 people on that cap table. They Only need to have 1 entity that represents the 100 people that are now supporting them.

A So we've spoken with, Kat. We've spoken with Leona, now we're speaking with you. As people who maybe were inspired by what you were seeing outside of our industry in this regard around Investing and and looking at new technologies, what specifically was it that inspired you all to bring something like this into our industry to create vehicle, as you said, to generate new ideas around business.

C It it has to do with the landscape that existed at the time or Just a year ago and it still still holds true today is that there aren't that many opportunities for someone who is focused on a building industry specific issue To go and raise capital, there's about 7, 8 firms, VC funds specifically that are focused on building industry As a as a theme. So it's there's a known number there. And the gap there is that if you you know, those companies have specific Risk profiles and put risk appetites that might be at odds with what the stage of the company that is coming to us typically is at. So we work with companies that are typically in some sort of seed stage. They're just they might not even have a working prototype or they might have a prototype at least Or they're just starting to get the idea and we're helping them work through that. Whereas, you know and again, we're we're we have more appetite for that because our risk profile is just different. The people that that are Looking to invest with us alongside us have that appetite versus the funds that exist. So there's just a gap that they were trying to fill and provide just another avenue for entrepreneurs.

C The other flip side is that because we're trying to curate, or trying to attract people that are also interested in the same problems that can be resources, It's it's a more of a network that we hope to be able to provide. And so, you know, the entrepreneur can come to us and say, I would love to present this idea that we're working on to the exit to the RLPs, right, or all the people that were part of the syndicating And design some sort of meeting for them. We can facilitate that for them. So it's just more of a almost like investing through a community as opposed to A fund which may have, like, 5 people at max that work there and they you know, it's just a different flavor.

A And can you explain, like, a little bit more about how you all were exposed to some of these ideas that you know, you obviously didn't Learn about this through your education in architecture. Where did you learn about this type of work?

C Well, interesting enough, there's just a lot of communities out there that exist For people to absorb and learn and and resources around that. I'm on Twitter a lot in my, free time.

B And Janine, this is a plug for Twitter.

C Yeah. It's a Twitter plug. I'm on Twitter a lot on my free time. And there, you have just a lot of If you if you look at my who I follow, or retweet or whatever, it's typically a lot of people that are in this community, VCs, entrepreneurs, and whatnot. So You kinda have to just start there in a way to absorb the aura of in the conversation that's happening. And over time, you start to realize, oh, well, you know, There's a lot of interesting things that are happening or let me put it another way. Like, in Silicon Valley, it's part of what makes it what it is is that you have people that you know, they go work at startups. There might be some sort of, like, big event that's life changing for them financially, and then they want to invest in their friends.

C Right. And so that's sort of the story behind how so many companies end up getting all these angel rounds. If you look at who is investing in them, it's all people that know each other in a way because They all are supporting each other's ideas. And so

B I just wanna stop on that idea. Like, that in a like, Could you imagine if the architecture community kept reinvesting in one another Yeah. Rather than being so competitive one with one another, like, where we would be. I it's for me, it's just such a critical mindset change of, like, kind of continuously lifting One other up.

C Yeah. And this is this is for the listeners out there. They might hear all, but, you know, but the industry It's not like the tech industry. Right? The the economics don't play out the same way. There's not just a liquidity event for most people In most architecture firms. That said, I I do think that things are starting to change on the avenue. Regulation is changing. So there are current platforms, that make crowdfunding possible, Which opens it up to non accredited investors.

C So you could invest in a company. Now, obviously, when we say invest, we have to recognize This is a couple things. 1, very privileged position to be in. 2, it's a very high risk endeavor. Right. You should only invest what you expect that you won't be afraid to lose. Right? It's essentially the way to go about it. And it should be part of a distributed portfolio of risk for yourself.

C So that that should be sort of a word of caution for people out there when it comes to So this in general. But yeah. I mean, I think if the architecture community were to recognize that even principles. Right? The let's say the salary curve of most firms actually does break out pretty Unequal. Right? A lot of firm owners, you could you could say that they have the salary ability to be able to be an accredited investor. So, You know, I think if there were more of that happening, that would be a net positive for the industry where principals are investing the tools that either they use Or can identify pretty early on will make a massive impact to their own workflow.

A That's a really interesting idea because I know a a lot of companies Yeah. They definitely struggle with that compensation piece and, like, how to generate wealth inside an architectural practice. Like, there's only there's, like, a cap kind of a glass ceiling of where you can get paid. But to your point, there are probably investment strategies that could diversify, like, where to some of our prior conversations, different Revenue streams that, like, generate wealth into a business. Absolutely.

C I think I think some of the larger firms have actually moved into this by either creating their own Venture funds or participating with other funds as LPs. But I think for the majority of firms, which are about 90% of the industry is much smaller. Right? Less than, like, 10 10 employees and less. I see that that's a personal thing that can break down. But I I still feel even if you took that If if as an industry, collectively, we looked at diversifying how we look at business in general and how we look at our own risk, Whether our firm is our only source of potential income or not, I think, you know, it's part of a financial decision. At the end of the day, though, If everybody were to become a little bit more financially educated and just understood these topics in general, I think that would be enough benefit for everybody.

B What you should see as really opportunities really interesting opportunities to invest in, and where are the architects' skin in the game? Are these opportunities that we need to be wary of because other people are coming in and taking over our space? Mhmm. Is there opportunities that you see that architects can grow into that we're not really seeing?

C So if we just step back and say, okay, what's the most important financial decision you can make? It's It's likely where you're working, where your paycheck accumulated a day is gonna be your main source of of income. Over time, I think in general, It behooves people to think about how could they start to allocate savings or whatever they can or not savings. Always set aside an emergency fund. But whatever excess money that they can into something that's going to generate some money for them, if that's dividend funds or whatever. So if we step back and we say, okay. What are the opportunities out there? What what's happening in the in the landscape around the building industry? I'd say some of the most interesting things have to do with like, 1 1 company, we were, fortunate to be a part of is It's Highpar. And and the team there, Anthony and me and I are just we really have a an amazing vision about where The the same workflows that we use in Revit and graph you know, tools like Grasshopper and Dynamo, for Revit and and Rhino, The same power that's possible because of that, being able to kind of program these workflows. When you allow people to do that in the cloud, Right.

C Where you can have an entire design system for facade as a bit of code, right, that you can apply to Another model in the web. Right? So, like, right now, I think people are more familiar with, like, SketchUp maybe in the web where you can kinda model 3 d or something like that. But being able to sort of just apply the logic of of 1 complex system into another and have that be used by anybody It's pretty crazy because you've now made it you've now turned this thing that which typically live inside of a firm into a marketplace Where I can go, you know, in the future on Highpar and be able to maybe buy a facade solution from an architect that lives Who knows where in the in the world? And then apply that that facade solution to my three d model. Right? And that's a little bit reductive and, obviously, people might be concerned about, like, well, what's the legal ramifications of that? But I think, ultimately, obviously, the the at the end of the day, Regulation will settle itself around that somehow. Like, it it that will be defined, but the opportunity will still exist. And so I think those type of platforms that can transform how we work and how we do things are something that everybody should be conscientious of. Even if they're not able to invest I think the opportunity to maybe jump into a marketplace and become a creator in a marketplace like that is another type of way of looking at an opportunity. The same as, like, just leaving an architecture firm to go work at a start up like that because that is also another opportunity.

C So, you know, I think when we think about opportunity, actually, this is I guess what I was getting back to my previous point. It's like, how that break how that breaks down can be different. Right. It doesn't always just have to be me investing. It can also be be rejoining or me doing something in that platform. Yeah. So I think that that's one example. Other examples that we've seen are have to do with basically taking what the architect does And in providing a better client experience.

C So I I went to we I went, I worked at WeWork, and I could I could probably argue that everything under the hood was still still looked like a traditional architecture practice, But that's not what the customer saw. The customer saw a tailored a really great experience, a welcome they saw the product. Right? They saw the The thing that the interface with the design so all the all that was was still there. Even for the corporate clients that became that became, WeWork's corporate clients, I'd say that A lot of them probably got a very different client experience than they would have at a traditional practice. And so when we talk about the consumerization of these The new space types or the verticalization of new space types, whether it's co working, co living, where you still have these in house design teams. What's really changing is how the customer, IE client, interfaces with that space. If let's bring it back to to or, like, an architecture firm. If an architecture were to or if a were to invest in technology to help streamline the way that they interface with their customers to provide the best Client experience possible.

C Then that alone would also be such a differentiator that could lead to disruption in some way. Now There might be some focus in, like, how what what is it you're producing and maybe you have to focus on just 1 specific client. But that's one example of what we're seeing different companies emerge That are abstracting away all the back of house and just really focusing on providing a great experience. So yeah. So that would be more vertical specific versus The kind of horizontal. Those are the 2 arenas where we really see a lot of happening. There's obviously a lot of domain specific, technologies that are coming out are start ups that are trying to provide more transparency in parts of the part of delivery process Or parts of the supply chain that didn't exist before. And I think those are really interesting opportunities as well.

C It's like, basically, just map out The entire workflow of putting the building together and wherever there's a big bottleneck, that's where there's probably a repeatable business that you can that you can tackle.

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B Be proactive with Monograph. It's been interesting to talk to everyone who's been a part of the syndicate, because you do have an architectural background and how Cat still very much has this long I don't I don't wanna characterize her in a certain way, but I I feel like she has this love of wanting to be a part of the building versus the bits, piece of it. Is there any part of your position now and where you are that you miss about being More immersed than what is traditional practice?

C Unfortunately, at Monograph, I get to think all day about traditional practice. And I get to think of and talk to, you know, architects and and especially talk to people that are trying to innovate really deeply into how how they operate, which is always a good fit for mon for people that are monograph customers. And so and in that part in that sense, I I feel fulfilled. On the side of me as a designer, you know, we're having design projects. I think at some point, I recognized that I might not be the best designer. Like, I was very good. You know, I I had a lot of friends who are very good at understanding how things came together. They really cared about the deep the joint or the detail of something.

C What I realized was I was more interested in questioning why do we even do that in the 1st place. It it was more about systems for me, and I really gravitated towards those Those, professors who became employers or whatnot that were, like, really cared more about systems. And that price also tied to my landscape background Where, you know, at the end of the day, yes, there's detail in it. Yes. You you can detail a bench. You can detail the way it connects to the ground. You can detail a planter. But the thing that's something you're really orchestrating is a system that's living and can die.

C Right? And I think that was more and it has to do with smell and experience and it was more interesting on that when I applied to architecture. It's like I felt wanting. Like, I felt like I much more interested in trying to understand why are we even doing this in the 1st place. Like, a building is not the solution always. And so yeah. That that that's the part where I'm, I guess, the entrepreneurial side of me also feels for But not in the same way, I guess, as a designer.

A Yeah. We've talked to a lot of different folks that came from architecture going into entrepreneurship, And I do think that systems thinking shows up quite a bit as well as this, you know, passion for problem solving, but, like, at a different level than I think traditional Architects who practice end up thinking about problem solving. So it I it's curious. I think I see it as a theme. I don't know about What do

B you think about it? That resonates a lot with me. I would say I knew from undergrad that I was not the best designer. I'd rather do a drawing than, build a physical model. Mhmm. I think it also kind of speaks to that in a way. Yeah. No. I mean, that definitely resonates with me.

B And and I do think when we think about how we take our skills and apply it elsewhere, like like Janine said a lot of it is around kind of the systems piece of that, and that more resonates from from a business vocabulary standpoint with other industries as well. As well. K. So next question. If I wanna get in front of your syndicate because I have a really amazing idea, How do I go about doing that, and how fully baked does my idea have to be before you, like, even consider listening to my pitch?

C So we we get pitched often. I think I think Kat recently has been pitched more than than myself. She has a better Twitter presence than I think I have. But Twitter is one avenue in which people reach out. They just kinda DM, and I think I have my my my DMs are open. It should be. But that's one avenue. Sometimes they join the architect y community and through that, they'll reach out and say, hey.

C I've been working on this this this, I think my email is also really freely out there almost everywhere. Much the chagrin of my wife. She's like, why do you have so much out there? But, yeah. I I think there's ways in which you can come to us. Now what what stage you're at, I'd say We entertain almost any level of, you know, completeness. I think it's much easier for us if you are You have some traction or you have some early customers that can that that can be proof points primarily because We typically are not we can't we're not the lead, investor. And what that means is, like, typically, there's somebody that is in bet outsized, Has an outsized investment into the company than others. And that typically is a traditional venture fund that does that Or a very, big angel investor.

C Might be might feed around. So with that, We have to depend on you being able to fill the rest of your what you're looking to invest with someone like that. And so If you're so early that there's no one really around to entertain it, it's a little bit it's it's tricky. It it's for for us because we just can't You know, we we can't fill, like, \$500,000 commitment. Typically, our ranges for anyone who's interested is around, like, 80 to a100 and 20,000 is is what we can can conceivably do. And 80 is actually the limit for AngelList. So What that breaks down for people that are that are care curious about the math, that means on average of someone within our core is investing between at a minimum 1,000 to 5,000 Dollars. It's kind of like where people end up investing.

C So you have to kinda build a community of people that can put that into every deal. Yeah. So we entertain any kind of At any stage, we'd rather work for people work with people that are a bit more further along. But we're happy to help if you're early. Right? Just entertain the conversation, but Not be able to make any commitments at that time, and I think, we we love talking to people that are willing to take home that risk to be an entrepreneur. So, Yeah. We're happy to

B meet.

A It's interesting to hear that you say Kat's doing, or she's hearing pitches solo. So is it not that, You know, if I have an idea, I come to you, and I'm gonna it's not Shark Tank style where the 3 of you are, like, vetting me over Zoom?

C You know, everyone because, again, we're not a it's not a fund. Right? We're not all working under 1 company where it's where you would Say, you would have developed a pro a very strict process for that. We all have day jobs, and so we're managing this on a case by case basis. What what might typically happen is someone comes into contact with the company. We then share it with the rest of the team. Typically, somebody will take the charge to put together a that's really interested in this, potential opportunity, create a memo that describes, okay, here's why we are interested in this company, what we think the market opportunity is, Just general opportunity and, like, try to find out potential risks where this company could you know, in all companies. And I think it's 85% fail or 90% fail. So, You know, that's already inherent, but we try to go a little bit deeper into, like, what are the gotchas of this business model that we should be aware of? And We then will will will share that internally and see if it makes sense for us to, you know, put in our effort and time to support the company.

C Again, because we're So research constrained with our own time. We we end up being selective with who we want to help.

B Are you guys raising a fund right around right now?

C No. We're we are talking to different companies, and we we do have 1 deal that is live, that we are raising for.

B And if if I were interested in joining that, where do I go? Or or we'll be able to we'll make sure we put it in the show notes too.

C Yes. We can provide a link to how to sign up through, AngelList to participate.

A I was just curious. Like, what have you learned through going through this process of Watching different people pitch to you, are there things that, you know, stand out as lessons learned?

C Yes. I think you just Kinda you start to see how involved certain people's ideas are. But, also, you get you get the sense of, like, red flags, which is is more important. It's like the red flags by that is, like, the kind of signals that are gonna tell you this is there's something not right about those. Just so you don't wanna get into this deal because of x reason. You're you're trying to prevent an issue down the line. Right? And so red flags for us might be something where, like, The deck is not there's, like, something about the deck not being concise and and and and at least pointed. Right? I mean, there's just, like, a A 120 page deck is not a good deck to present to investors.

C You might think that that level of detail is is necessary. But in reality, it's just a conversation you're starting. So you wanna get the person that's gonna flip to those 1st pages. Like, architects should be familiar with this. Right? You know your audience doesn't have a lot of time, so you wanna synthesize, very clearly what it is that you wanna say in a Sparse amount of of, of slides. When you see that many, it's it's kind of like they're not they're not being critical enough. And how how are they gonna if they can't be critical about this most this Very important document that they're gonna send to somebody. How else might that happen into into the business? Other other things might be just having too many People that are top heavy in the sense of, like, when you see a lot of people in different chief roles, Chief strategy, chief you know, not traditional.

C Like, it's not like the c you should always have a CEO or like someone very clear. Okay. This is the the the the chief executive. But after that, it's kinda like when you see too much and everybody's in this chief role. That's a bit of a red flag because then, well, who's doing the work? Who's or they this is a a kind of discrepancy there. Having experienced it myself where I've been actually at a startup where we were kind of all, Well, I wasn't chief, but other people were chiefs that were like, Yeah. It it also comes from that for, for myself. You know, I think other things that we've learned in general is like, Maybe less so from from watching these decks than just my own startup experience is that people matter.

C Like, even though We're investing money. It's still there's still people involved and, like, who you're working with matters and the character of that person also matters. And I've been in person personally situations where that I learned from not being able to understand that person's character early on, Either in joining the team or something else. So that that's, an important thing that you try to assess out when you're meeting with people is, like, What are these person's values? What do they care about? That's not always inherently visible in a deck. That's when you start to talk to them. But I think even even in the deck, you might get a sense sometimes of, like, what what what are these person's values?

A I think it's kinda interesting. You guys Are a unique interview for us because there aren't many people doing what you're doing. And so for us, it's like a little bit of a New exposure to a new topic, and so it's very fascinating just hearing you guys each of you talk about this world that I feel is very far away from the world I live in. So it's it's it's really interesting to just get a snapshot into your point of view.

C Yeah. I I think just so whether whether or not you have the capacity to invest or not, I still think that being able to Understand how organizations work, business models, those topics are fundamental and very helpful. Even if you are listening to this and you are an architectural designer, a year out of school. Right? What I hope that you sort of take away from it is just like, Okay. There's more to learn more deeply about not even just design, but how things how how these financial systems work. And if that leads you down a rabbit hole where you got where you start to learn more about just financial topics in general, I I think that's awesome because it's gonna make you a stronger designer in the sense that you will be able to have more agency over your own decisions. It's the lack of knowledge about these things that actually hinders us. Right? It's just we don't know what we don't know.

C And so when you start to dive into that, It reframes every single decision you're gonna make in your career. You know, I love working in technology startups because there's also I I love taking things from nothing to something. That's one thing. But it's also I I do understand to be part of a financial and economic decision that I'm making. I'm making a bet in my Capacity to do that also in the cap in in the the team that I'm surrounded with. Right? And so, yeah, I I think that that's helpful for anyone to internalize.

B What is your best hope for the future of the profession?

C Oh, I I I do fundamentally believe it has to do, Wow. The word that comes to mind is marketing. Maybe I'm speaking for mom as a marketer now. But essentially, I think the biggest hope is that we need to actually see us like, the industry needs to position itself as public figures more. They've relinquished this for many different reasons. But what with marketing, what comes to that what comes with that is an actual sensitivity towards the finance of The financial side of a business. It's the idea that, like, design doesn't live in a vacuum. When you are operating a business, You need to sustain people and you need to focus on those activities and innovate on the things that are gonna help to bring in more.

C So my my hope is that there are now people that are Becoming aware of the financial side of how to run a business as junior designers or whatnot. And hopefully, there's more they have more Confidence to be outspoken and then and hopefully, there are now younger firms that are coming out that are expanding the table for every everyone, right, to have a seat at it And to be able to say, hey. I think we should do this next week. You know, I've been noticing with this client, we've just Just had a weird conversation. We we should maybe change the way we present to them. Like, I don't know. It's, like, all interrelated in my mind. It's, like, Once you develop that acumen within your team and within you, I think it that is my hope is that It'll lead to a better profession.

C We need to just stop. I mean, I mean, just very quick. As as your firm owner, Stop hiding the financials of your project from your employees, period. Like, there is not about you're not distracting them. You're not creating noise Or anything or what are they gonna say? Like, people understand. Like, hey. You your salary is x amount because of x y z. Our billable rate is 3 times that.

C Full of thumb. No real reason why. We just I've been reading books that say 3 3 times is what we should do. And that's what it is. Now help us improve it. Now help us Build a better practice through that. That I think is like will change things fundamentally. It's to give agency and autonomy to the people that you employ.

C It's like, Yes. That that that is I I couldn't be more passing. I'm up I'm about to blow up in my chair right now.

B Janine, I would be interested as more of a newcomer to this space, kind of what were your biggest Thoughts and takeaways from our conversation with George.

A Well, I think what's great about this conversation is that we've been talking to so many entrepreneurs over the past 2 seasons of the show, and we're gonna continue to bring on entrepreneurs. It's nice to step into the Investment side of this conversation because, you know, often, we've we've made the argument that the industry needs disruption and that there are people out there creating, new business ideas to help change practice, but now we're looking at how are people actually funding those strategies. And We're also learning a bit about how angel investing and venture capital works outside of the industry with the hope of bringing more of that into the industry to find some of this work.

B Absolutely. And I think, you know, one of the long term Hopes is that practice of architecture can become a type of accelerator or have its own syndicate Or join the spatial syndicate in these investment opportunities and really help move that many more ideas Forward, especially those ideas that deal with, spatial concepts, but have individuals, founders who Who have the architecture education and who came out of the same type of school that we did.

A Yeah. I can see a lot of potential with A group of people who are working on, like, a incubator entrepreneurial clinic, but they all have architecture degrees. I mean, that's a formula for some really exciting ideas.

B And and I know I've been bugging you about this for a little bit while. But some of those individuals have quite the community On Twitter. So I was actually, you know, kind of happy when George threw threw in the mention that that's that's one of the ways that he tends to track, what's going on in this in this space?

A Yeah. I'm still working on my, Twitter coming back to Twitter. I had to take a little bit of a sabbatical, but I've I've I've snooped around a little bit. I definitely see a lot of conversations. I I find it it's a really good way for people who are interested in those type of conversations to connect and just have informal discussions, you know, periodically. Right. And, I

B mean, the one thing I like about Twitter is kind of the asynchronous aspect of it. Right? You can kind of jump in and respond to a thread on your time. I don't know if it's the generation x in me, but I'm still what's that new app? I'm I'm still trying to figure out Clubhouse? Yeah. I'm still trying to figure out Clubhouse With, with a lot less success just because there's so many other things going on to the you know, during the day that's drawing my attention away from From another thing that I should be listening to.

A So I guess maybe you see Twitter as a little bit more accessible for quick reading, quick responses, and Having that engagement,

B it's something that I can pick up whenever I have a free 5 minutes and kind of see what's posted and see if there's anything I can respond to or a news article that I want to follow, you know, at any time of day. Right? And Sometimes I I look at it, and I was like, oh, this thread is over 2 weeks old, but but that's fine. People still respond to To post that you post even on a thread that's 2 weeks old.

A I find it's a good way to scan for, like, what's current, what's top of mind for people.

B Now that we've gone in this incredible tangent to Twitter, I'm really excited about what the spatial syndicate is actually doing to reinvest. In particular, support those who are repurposing their architecture education in new ways. Right? They're creating a A a true community for these types of individuals.

A I think it was poignant that George pointed out this idea of systems thinking and how He discovered that when he was going through school, this was something that kinda made him a little bit different than his classmates and, you know, similarly, I think you and I have Also discovered that in our own careers, but I think people who are starting to shift away from architecture and towards entrepreneurial endeavors, they're looking at Using the skills, using the problem solving abilities towards greater organizational systems thinking and greater problem solving around Designing a business or creating, like, a solution to a broader problem in the world, whereas architecture is so specific to, like, Using those skills in reference to a building, maybe what makes this new group of Leaders different is just their application of that thought process out into the world to to solve greater entrepreneurial problems.

B Right. And what I love about all of those individuals is that, you know, they are still very proud of their architectural roots. The fact that they came out of architecture, that, you know, Leona named her Slack group Architectees. Kat very much talks to building over bytes. Right? I think it's kind of a phrase that she uses. George, You know, is heading about marketing for a product management tool built for architects by architects. So even though they've moved on to these other worlds, I I feel like they're they're very well connected to the architecture, their architecture roots. And I hope if This podcast, if practice of architecture does anything, it helps broaden the tent And kind of and helps us reconnect with those individuals who have gone off and done things outside our traditional practice And are redefining what it really means to be be an architect.

A So Evelyn, what was the biggest takeaway that you got from this interview?

B For me, it was having a conversation with a friend again. So it was just the sharing of George's knowledge. We had several conversations with him leading up to this, and he actually had a very detailed bio that I learned so much more. He spent a a great deal talking about his roots. You know, he mentioned a few things at the top of his conversation relative to To Google, and WeWork, of course. But he's had his foot in so many different aspects. Like, I I really got to understand why entrepreneurialism is so important to him and why he wants to to support others. And I feel vest investing is just one of the many mechanisms that he does continue to support that community.

A Well, I'm really excited now that we've interviewed Leona, Kat, and George, to to understand that there's a group of people out there that's really committed to shaping this for the architectural profession, and they're gonna lead the way in showing us how to do it.

B Yes. And now that we've said that, I feel like We need to reach out to Federico Negro and bring him on the show as well. And he happens to be an individual that I've only interacted with on Twitter. So we'll see how that invitation goes. Alright. On that note, thank you for listening, and tune in next week. Thank you again to our podcast partner, Monograph.

A Learn how Monograph can help you take control of your firm's financial health.

B Follow the link in our show notes or visit practice of architecture.com backslash monograph so that Monograph knows that you heard about them From us. Thanks for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Visit us at practice of architecture.com to find out more about Future episodes and the changing nature of practice.

A We have several ways you can get involved with our growing community. Find us On social media at practice of arc. You can also become a member of the POA lab or join us on Patreon.

B And if you wanna take your career or practice to the next level, Janine and I also consult, provide workshops, and speak regularly on this research, And we would love an opportunity to collaborate with you.

A This show is part of Gable Media. You can learn more about Their podcasts and video channels in our community by visiting gablmedia.com.

B We are also looking for sponsors who want to partner with us in 2021 and beyond. If that's you, please contact me directly at evelyn@practiceofarchitecture.com.

A If you like the research we're doing here, please help us out by leaving a rating or review on Apple. We appreciate you subscribing on your favorite podcast

B app. Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to let us know what other topics or speakers you're interested in hearing from. Thanks for listening, and see you next