Asian American Architects

A This episode of Practice Disrupted is supported by Monograph, the cloud based practice operations solution built for architects by architects. Practice Disrupted launched last year in the middle of the pandemic, which has left us in a heightened state of empathy, But has also realized there are issues that we need to face more directly related to equity and diversity. Over this year's Chinese New Year, greater public awareness was given to the amount of additional Asian hate that the Asian American population has faced. Like many of the deeply rooted troubles within our society, this is not necessarily anything new, but something that has seen a dramatic increase in the last year.

B As part of our ongoing effort to elevate conversations on diversity, we wanted to dedicate a show to explore the leadership of Asian American architects who are leading the industry. Today's speakers represent a diverse group of viewpoints, including different career stages, those who have immigrated, and those who are born in the US. We're going to start by reading their bios, starting with Evelyn Lee, f a I a, MBA, MPA. Evelyn is a licensed architect in the state of California with over 15 years of experience working with individuals and companies that are looking to reshape their future. She is the founder of Practice of Architecture, a cohost my cohost on the podcast Practice Disrupted, the 1st ever senior experience designer at Slack Technologies and the 1st female treasurer to AIA's national board of

A Susan Chin, FAIA, honorary ASLA. Susan is principal of Design Connex And an accomplished architect, urbanist, and civic leader. She formed an independent consultancy on art, architecture, landscape, in urban design in 2020 and provides leadership and advises government, developers, and nonprofits on design, planning, and policy.

B Annie Chu, f a I a I I d a, is an architect, interior designer, and educator with over 30 years of Experience at a dozen architectural and design schools across the country and abroad. As a founding principal of Choe Gooding Architects, Annie has worked extensively with world renowned museums, cultural facilities, and arts related institutions.

A Ming Thompson, AIA, NOMA, is a cofounder of Atelier Cho Thompson, a New Haven and San Francisco based practice working between architecture, interiors, graphics, and strategy. Ming was a recipient of the AIA Young Architect Award in 2020, and our firm has been a recipient of numerous national and regional design honors, including the IIDA Foundation Visionary Award.

B Alvin Huang, AIA NOMA, is an award winning architect, designer, and educator who explores the intersection between technology and culture To produce innovative design work that challenges convention and expresses universal values, he is the founder and principle of Simple of synthesis design and architecture and an associate professor at the University of Southern California, where he is Also, the director of graduate and postprofessional architecture.

A I'm a daughter of 2 Chinese parents that immigrated at different points in their lives to follow the American dream. My father came to the US with his family during his elementary years. My mom found her way to the States later in life for an education at an American university. They met and fell in love at UCLA, on the same campus where it just so happens I met my husband. As a daughter of a plasma physicist and a computer scientist, I grew up in Los Alamos, New Mexico, which is a pretty unusually diverse place given its size. In my younger years, a lot of discrimination came from the fact that I was from Los Alamos. I remember attending local camps and kids asking me if we glow in the dark. I never really saw color, as it were, until 1 afternoon sitting outside the library during lunch, I had a conversation with 1 of my friends about her internship in DC, and how peers bucketed their friends demographically.

A My black friends, my Hispanic friends, my Chinese friends, I had never even considered classifying my friends that way, let alone people. Sure. I experienced microaggressions growing up, but it was always something that was water off the back. Besides, If people assume that I could do martial arts like Bruce Lee, who is I to let them believe otherwise? Then in 1999, Coming down the NBC Suites elevator to get breakfast before heading out to the Women's World Cup final, where USA was playing Chyna In the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California, a seemingly nice white father sporting red, white, and blue regalia took one look at my family and said, They are here to support China. Never mind my vintage US jersey, which he clearly could not identify, nor the more subtle US symbols that my family was wearing. That day stuck in my mind because it was only the beginning. Everyone hawking their wares on the way to the stadium Always offered us the Chinese memorabilia first. It was like I was confronted with it every 10 steps I took.

A Sure. The US took home the cup, but that day left a deeper imprint on me. My parents raised us as typical Americans Who happen to frequent Chinese grocery stores and restaurants on a regular basis. Wasn't this normal? They wouldn't be able to understand one another in their native tongues because the dialect was so different. So I grew up learning English. I love the red envelopes that randomly showed up once a year, Not because of its symbolism. I frankly had no idea what they meant, only that it was Chinese New Year. As an adult, I struggle not looking American enough to be fully considered American, and definitely not Chinese enough to be considered Chinese.

A Having lost both sets of grandparents, I feel as though I've lost some connection to my ancestral past, And I'm still trying to reconcile how I should raise my 2 children, now 35. They are mixed. My son looks too Chinese to be Caucasian, and my daughter's light brown hair and gray hazel eyes might have fooled you if not for her button nose and hooded eyelids. Part of what keeps me engaged in AIA leadership is the number of women, particularly Asian women, that have come up to me and said, thank you for being an example. The architect doesn't fit the lawyer, doctor, engineer career paths that my parents Or typical Chinese families may have envisioned for their children, but I have carved out my own unique identity within the profession. Working as an experienced designer at Slack, there are those architects who have told me I'm not an architect Because I no longer design buildings. Perhaps I've become accustomed to residing somewhere in the in between, Not quite enough of one thing to be considered whole by 1 party or another. That's okay.

A It means that I have that much more to understand and learn about taking multiple paths rather than walking a singular one.

C Like a lot of the parents of my childhood friends in Hong Kong, my mom and dad also fled communist rule from Shanghai and Beijing to start a new life In this new colony in Hong Kong, there were limited opportunities for universities, and the looming return of Hong Kong to China meant huge sacrifices for these parents to send their kids away abroad for education and hope for them to stay there. I was 16 when I came alone to the States to Start 11th grade. My earliest concept of a Chinese woman is my mom. Smart, stylish, Strong headed and one with so many friends. The women in my mom's generation were typically homemakers. My mom was an exception. She worked full time as a nurse practitioner for the Power Company's in house clinic. And after school, I would hang out and I saw her taking charge of medical emergencies in the clinic and saw a confident, strong, professional woman.

C I was fortunate to be born into this 1st generation of Chinese girls who were being educated towards a career So that we can chart our own course and be financially independent of our spouses. Hong Kong women had a pretty limited offering then. You either go into medicine, law, education, or business. And as early as 9th grade, we were all sorted into different tracks in school so that we will lead to those careers. When it came time for me to enroll in college in the states, it was a no brainer for me to go into a pre med track. I was a biomath major and often the only woman in some classes. Architecture was not yet on my radar. No role models for 1, And I couldn't even imagine a woman architect or a Chinese one for that matter.

C Maybe I heard of I. M. Pei, but He might as well be an alien from another planet. And what is architecture anyways? I have no idea what architects do. Somewhere in my 3rd year of college, a sculpture teacher just randomly dropped a question as to whether I've looked into architecture. Growing up, the world view of Hong Kong Chinese is black and white. You are either on the right side or on the wrong side. That Hong Kong brand of value It is a mixture of the culture Confucius, British colonial system of class, and certainly Christianity derived values of ethics and so.

C So it really did come as a shock to me to learn in architecture school at SI Arc in Columbia that most everything is gray. Most things are circumstantial. They're evolving, shifting, and what you see is dependent on where you stand. How unchinese is that line of thinking? Architecture was just brainwashing my Chinese brain. Along the way in my education as an architect, I found that architecture is surely a really demanding mistress. Fundamentally, she asked for you to have a paradigm shift. I saw that to practice architecture well, you have to sign on to an integrated work life. That fluidity is certainly not my parents' paradigm.

C For them, work is office and home is life. But the underlying idea of that tenacious Life somehow fits this Chinese mindset quite well. The 1st Chinese American woman architect I met was Billy Tan in 1984 On her opening at Art on the Beach, which is an annual artist architect collaborative public art festival in New York City, Billie was in her thirties with a newborn baby, a partner in her architecture firm, an educator, and working with artists Using her undergrad fine arts training to develop her voice in architecture and just seemingly unencumbered by the culture she grew up in, A Chinese immigrant household in an almost all white New Jersey town. She was a role model I can truly identify with Someone as we say now as being intersectional as I am, her path seemed possible for me too. Well, I was unaware of actively copying her during the years I worked for Billy and with Todd Williams. I began to accumulate stories and encounters of prejudice in our profession. They're like a 100 little needle pokes. They don't hurt too much when that happens, but it has this cumulative effect of numbing over the years.

C Sometimes, you defend yourself against them, And sometimes, maybe your partner does that. Still to this day, a Chinese woman architect on a construction site, it's a novelty, And that has got to change.

D I'm originally from Richlands, Virginia, a small town in the heart of the Appalachian Mountains. My father and his family had settled the land many generations before, and he grew up there as a rebel with an artistic streak and a desire to see the whole world. And the world came to him one day in the form of my mother, a beautiful, young graduate who'd made her way all the way from cosmopolitan Hong Kong to this tiny town in the mountains. My mom's parents were raised in Guangdong in southern China and had fled during the forties across the border to Hong Kong. My mom immigrated to the US by herself when she was teen in the seventies looking for an adventure, and she found it with my dad in Richlands. There, they started an amazing honky tonk restaurant in an old dairy barn owned by my father's family, and that's where I grew up. And I grew up half Asian in an extended family in a town that were almost completely white. I remember not really understanding that I looked different from my friends until I saw a picture after my 1st grade birthday party.

D And I saw for the 1st time that my hair was black and long, my skin was brown, and I was visibly different when I never really felt different before. Growing up in the south in a small town, there were many times in my childhood when I was teased mercilessly on the bus, when kids said cruel or racist things to me. In large part, I was treated with kindness, but always knowing that I was different. After college, I spent time teaching in China, and my students there were fascinated by me being mixed race. I remember 1 student rifling through a dictionary and asking me, what is it like to be, a mongrel? I laughed. People in China were more forthright about race than we are in the US, and not a day went by there when someone didn't ask, what are you? Where are you from? Americans, to so many people there, were blond, blue eyed. But through my presence, I hope to show them more complex, a more diverse, a more hopeful version of America. My business partner and I started our firm 7 years ago.

D We met in grad school. She's also Asian, also from the South, and I think that we found that growing up different, being different, has given us an ease and a skill to connect with people from all walks of life, to listen and to understand across difference, and to better empathize with the many viewpoints we need to understand as architects. And the values of our families, the blended values of being southern and being Asian, of southern warmth, of immigrant hustle, A belief that gathering around food can bring us together and build community are at the backbone of our firm culture, shaping our work every day.

E I'm a 3rd generation only child of American born Chinese parents, Charles Li Dong Chin and Ethel Waju Chin. They met in the Navy during World War 2 in Washington DC. My father was a professor, an aeronautical engineer who worked on the Apollo mission And also in plastics. My mom was a homemaker and special education teacher with an economics degree. The duality of my upbringing and where I belonged or who my tribe was was ever present. We were neither traditional Chinese are seen as real Americans, whatever that was or is. Yet traditional values, like caring for the group or your family before yourself were deeply ingrained. I'd often refer to myself as an American girl and a Chinese rapper And survived my share of slurs and microaggressions since kindergarten.

E But to cope and move forward, I boxed those parts of myself off. In a world defined by blackness or whiteness, I've always existed in the in between space as an Asian American, politically, culturally, And socially. Growing up in Michigan, Boston, Ohio, Los Angeles, and New York, wherever my dad's work took us, shaped my multicultural upbringing. We actively participated in the congregational and Presbyterian churches With strong social justice programs, we spoke only English at home, and I rebelled against Chinese school, but later regretted the loss of my roots And ability to work abroad and studied Mandarin in college and after. Our family dinners for New Year's, Weddings or funerals in New York City Chinatown were a metaphor for societal change and my own evolution. At first, everyone only spoke Cantonese except me and mom. Then half spoke Cantonese And half spoke Mandarin. And then most everyone spoke English.

E My husband is from Arkansas. Like many other cousins and many other American families, we're international, interracial, intergenerational, and integrated. I'd say being the daughter of an engineer and a woman architect had a stronger influence on my career path than being Asian American. But aren't those 1 in the same? Study hard. Work hard. Don't rock the boat. Be self sufficient and be best. I rarely met Asian Americans like myself, especially in the field of historic preservation.

E When I graduated from Ohio State in architecture in the 19 seventies, I was only one of 4 women in a class of 60. My goal was to start my own firm. In the seventies, we lived and breathed earth stewardship and energy conservation. Mentors, friends, and networks All have had a huge influence on my career and becoming a global citizen. They showed me how rewarding a career in public service What government and nonprofits could be. They also inspired me to actively contribute to civic life and make a difference in people's lives, Starting with the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island and, more recently, the advocacy to save 70 Mulberry Street, my dad's grade school in Chinatown. I served in leadership roles in AIA and New York City government and other civic organizations as New York chapter president and vice president, assistant commissioner, and executive director. These roles showed me the power of collaboration and activism to make people's lives better.

E Most importantly, they enabled me to bring diverse and emerging voices to the table and foster leadership in others. Now I'm on to a new chapter, creating my own consultancy, DesignConnects, to bring arts, architecture, and urban design together.

F I'm a 1st generation Chinese American born in Minnesota immigrant parents from Taiwan. I spent my early childhood in small towns in the American Midwest where my sister and I were not only the only Asians, But oftentimes, we were the only people of color. However, that situation changed when my family and I moved to Los Angeles in the 4th grade, And I quickly became immersed in a diverse Southern Californian culture where I had friends of many different ethnicities and backgrounds. Though ironically, not so many were Asian. As a child of immigrant parents growing up in the late eighties and early nineties, African American culture was my American culture, Especially throughout high school when the bulk of my friends were African American, many of whom I'm still connected to to this day. I developed a love of hip hop, basketball, and urban culture. I was a member of the Black Student Union. Graffiti, tagging, and sneakerhead culture were the initial catalyst for a love of visual culture and formal languages that got me interested in design as a career path.

F When I went to USC as an undergraduate, I actually initially majored in architecture and minored in African American studies. But as many hyphenated Americans do, I really discovered my own self identity as an Asian American in college. For the first time, I was exposed to and experienced the fact that there actually was such a thing as an Asian American subculture. I joined an Asian American fraternity, and I changed my minor to Asian American studies. In my Asian American studies thesis, I based my paper on the inherent contradictions between 2 quotes. While the Japanese proverb, the nail that stands up gets hammered down, might describe the nuances of traditional East Asian cultural beliefs. The American Civil Rights Movement might best be encapsulated by Malcolm X's infamous quote, It's the hinge that squeaks that gets the grease. To me, that is the complexity and contradiction of being Asian American.

F We are labeled the model minority in part because of our cultural values of keeping our heads down and working hard, while oftentimes being overlooked seemingly invisible because we do not speak up. Architecture is both a discipline and a profession that has historically been dominated by a white male perspective. As agents in architecture, we have clearly benefited from our white adjacency while simultaneously being overlooked and dismissed for our otherness. As a longtime educator, it has not been lost on me that the ratio of Asian American and Asian international students In our student bodies is not proportionally reflected in leading our discipline. This is not dissimilar to the demographics of women in architecture, Which at USC is quite noticeably proportionally dominated by female students, yet in both cases, women and Asians. As we move up the ranks in the discipline, those numbers seem to shift, whether it is in the faculty that teach our students, the lecture series we idolize, Or the leadership of the profession. I've spent most of my architectural career thinking of my own personal beliefs and my design beliefs as 2 separate identities. However, more recently, with the COVID nineteen pandemic and its exposure of social and cultural inequities in our society, including but not limited to Systemic racism, housing shortages, economic disparity, environmental crises, and more.

F These issues are all directly related to the built environment and actually demand the most creative and innovative design solutions rather than the most utilitarian. My identity, my work, And perhaps more importantly, my voice are starting to come together. And as a result, I'm trying to incorporate more of the things that I believe in, Justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, not only into design culture, but my design work as well. I really do believe that architecture is the expression and materialization of our value systems. And if that's the case, then as a designer and an architect, I cannot separate what I do from who I am and what I believe in.

A Having listened to everyone's stories, what stood out in your mind, or what came to mind, or even What new realizations did you make, not only maybe about one another, but but yourself while listening? Annie, let's start with you.

G Well, I really appreciated everyone's story. I mean, it's just an amazing connection That we all have, you know, because we all came from different generations of immigrants. And I think that the thing that I really took away from, listening to you and hopefully with this conversation too is almost like a sense of, like, a call to action now. Like, now that I've, And, you know, really think about the identity, and I look at your identity and hear your stories. What should I be doing Both as an architect and educator, an interior designer, and just as another Asian person.

A Alvin, how about you?

F Well, I would say maybe something that for most of my career in architecture, my identity has been something I've Not necessarily ignored, but really was not part of any of the conversations that I ever encompassed and actually, in some ways, maybe Went out of my way to avoid in terms of, you know, articulating myself as different, really trying to, you know, always go out of the way to, Let's say fit in more rather than identify my differences or the, you know, the differences in my background. And I think, I kinda hint at it or talk about that directly in terms of, you know, the the quotes that I'm comparing, but I think that's also something that I see in a lot of the conversations that are being had by others here. Maybe it's just a longer legacy of what being Asian American or being Asian in America has been, has Historically been the kind of effort to try to claim that white adjacency in terms of, really positioning ourselves as Taking that model minority myth thing as something that is a virtue rather than something that is actually its True origin story is a divisive term rather than a thing to be proud of. It's actually something that's meant to Separate us and and identify the fact that trying to proclaim that racism doesn't exist and that we're the proof of it.

A Yeah. Listening to your story in particular and talking about the my the model minority, that's been a big learning curve. I don't know For the rest of you, but at least for me through all of this. And then I actually wanna acknowledge that I feel Completely accidental. But that the way that this panel came forward is actually not diverse when you think about All of the people that are bucketed under the Asian label too. So this is, in fact, a conversation that we might need to revisit again with more east Asian individuals as well. But sorry, Elbit. I didn't mean to interrupt.

H No. Not at all. And I I think, You know, it was

F a term because of that Asian American studies background that

H I was aware of, but then it's obviously resurfaced a lot recently. You know? And I think it is one of the things that, you know, us as a it's interesting to Call us a culture because we are actually so many cultures in terms of of people of Asian ancestry in this Country, but, like, that we are not a monoculture and that we are a diverse collection of backgrounds As cultural backgrounds, but also as individuals.

A Ming, do you wanna chime in?

D Yeah. I thought it's it's interesting. I think Alvin mentioned the word legacy, and I think Annie There were generations that a theme that came up in a lot of our conversations were, our parents and the people that came before us. And I think for every immigrant group in America, that's something to consider as part of you know, as our history and what they did and where we wanna be going. And I think there's a a kind of poignancy and a kind of emphasis on thinking about previous generations in Chinese American culture, which is what I'm part of, I'm thinking about filial piety and what we owe to our ancestors. So I think it's, as Annie mentioned, being at a time that feels like a call to arms. I think it's Very interesting feeling. Like, my mom came here and wanted to assimilate, and I didn't grow up speaking Cantonese.

D And, basically, my whole life, I wanted to be like everybody else. I wanted to be like all the white kids, in my school and in town. And, it's interesting now thinking about how Our generation and the generations coming after us are positioning ourselves in terms of reclaiming Asian American identity and seeing it in a new light. So I think it's like Alvin mentioned, I think for me, for a long time, it's something that I kind of ignored, and I've been really interested in Social justice and equity efforts, but often as an ally and thinking first about allyship and how What I could do for other other people, and it's kind of the beginning of me thinking about what can I do for People like me that are Asian American? So I think it's a it's a confusing and exciting time right now. Susan?

I Sure. I feel like I was really struck by the similarities in our lived experience. And, also, it inspired me to Well, similar to all of you, I wanted to blend in, or I never thought of myself as that different, Except other people see us as different. Right? They put a label on us. So Now I just feel like we need to reclaim who we are and that our difference Or our similarities give us a certain strength and that we've had been able to negotiate In many different facets of the world, enable us to be stronger, To help out I tried to figure out, Ming, why did I feel this passion for helping others. Right. It's part of our culture, Asian culture or my religious upbringing, but also Maybe it's to cure some of the injustice that we've survived and thrived through, but reclaiming some of that heritage, I think it's really part of our being.

G It's a really great point that you made. You know, why are we Well, collectively trying to help others. Right? Ming talked about the allyship. You know, Alvin, you were, during the pandemic, the leaders Of that whole thing that you did to, you know, to 3 d print all the masks for the health care workers, and you let a whole bunch of us to behind you to do that effort. I mean, that's not a racial injustice work, but in a way that, You know, the the kind of care for the community. I think that the big difference of operating as individuals Here in the kind of culture of individualism when our own sort of parents' culture is about the community. Right? Like, a Chinese person is not that important. It's the fact that you are part of this entire, you know, group of people is important.

G That's been drilled into our heads from when we're young. Right? Think about others. Think about the whole group's Survival and and their elevation. So I think we're always pivoting between that being here in America and being that kind of individual expression and coming back to our Asian roots and said, yeah. We gotta do things for our community. But I think that in really kinda interesting thing is that, Susan, I think, you know, your, like, long and rich and amazing career, I think that my feeling is that you probably have used your identity really well already. I found myself also pivoting between when it's useful for me to be more Chinese, I will take that. Right.

G When it's not so useful for me to be Chinese, I'll just kind of blend in. And we all have that ability to pivot in some way. And, you know, more and more so, I felt very fortunate to have this kind of identity. And I look forward to like, even Like, for example, like Ming, you're, biracial person, really, like my child is. Right? And Wanting to hear from you about the difference, like, between, you know, some of us who look Asian, you know, have Both sets of Asian parents, but immigrated here and tried to pivot between those 2 positions and you who actually Physically look like both. And how do you feel about your leverage with that identity?

D I I was amazed when I moved to California to see children at the farmers market. Like, 85% of children were biracial. And When I grew up, I felt like I was the only one, and I remember kind of desperately looking for, like, any kind of representation. Like, if there was, like, a black cared Barbie. I would, like, cling to that as, like, some something that looked a little bit like me. And, you know, I think being half white doesn't make Me feel white at all. I I think I identify more as being Asian American because I feel different than the place that I grew up in a Small town in Appalachia. But then when I went to China, I was really different in China.

D People would ask me every day, where are you From are you from Sri Lanka? Are you Indian? Where are you from? Students asking me, if I was a mongrel or using words that were not appropriate, to ask about what it meant to be half Asian. And so I'm glad to know that it's a more common it's a more common thing. And my my son, who's 6 years old, is also mixed race and is in a class with other mixed race children. But it's kind of I feel like that's, the next front here of understanding racial politics in America, that mixed race people, we often get lumped in with with other groups, but there's a kind of Special confusion around being mixed race that's really hard to navigate. And, yeah, I don't know

I And Ming, if I could just jump in for a minute. When I heard that Kamala Harris, our vice president, went to Georgia, I cried. I didn't think of her as being Asian American, right, and yet having an Indian mother. And so it really brought to the fore, especially in this time, especially with the anti Asian hate. You know what being American is all about, like, kind of crazy mixed up, and yet how do you also claim who you are? Right? You can define who you are, but people want you to be one thing or the other. They don't allow you to be more multifaceted, which you are. Right? We all are.

G Hey, Alvin. I was wondering. I mean, your kids are mixed. Right?

H Yeah. My wife is, well, my my Kids are particularly mixed. So I'm obviously Chinese, and my wife is Mexican American, born in Boyle Heights here in East LA. But both my kids are half Mexican, half Chinese, but, American passports and British passports. So they were born in London. So they're they're they're British American, Mexican, Chinese.

G No. It it's interesting because, my daughter, She's half white and half mostly Chinese. That's most of my heritage and which I found out, actually not recently. But, you know, she has From day 1, been white passing. I mean, she really does not look Asian at all. Like, she really looks white and with some kind of, You know, maybe slightly Latina look or Middle Eastern look, but definitely white passing. And it was only in After Black Lives Matter, that she began to have a real awakening and now claim herself to be, you know, Scandi, Chinese, all of that together and really kinda going after the kind of social injustice. But I'm just thinking for Alvin's kids.

G And now, Ming, when you have your children is gonna be even more mixed up probably. Like, the burden of the mixed race kids, you know, I mean, you have a Personal experience with that, that kinda dual identity of having both races And having to like, Alvin, in your case, your kids are both, like, from actually minority groups. Right? So they have this kind of double Identity going on there. You know, the the burden of those children coming up. It reminded me of, like, either Time Magazine or National Geographic, Like several years ago had a cover where they kinda computer generated like AI generated a person, which is a mix of all the races, And you can't tell what this woman is. And it says, like, this is the face of future, you know, increasingly so, we're gonna get all mixed up and stuff. But for the time being, I'd like to hear about, you know, Alvin Yu raising, children that definitely look different, and have they spoken about Their burden and Ming, you spoke about your particular burden, especially, you know, growing up in a small town. My Daughter grew up in LA, and so, you know, she was okay with it, except I do remember one incident in high school Where, when I was picking her up at Monday, she dragged me to a group of friends and said, This is my mom.

G I am half Chinese. This is really my mom, and the friends were in disbelief. They said, no. No. No. You're pulling our leg, you know, whatever it is. And later on, she basically said, you know, mom, I just like, in the last few years, she said, I have heard, like, racial slurs against Asians Bad jokes make on the about Asians to me because they don't think I'm Asian. And that I've just kinda taken it for granted, you know, And I just kinda, like, laughed along with them.

G And now I have this entire awakening and this guilt about not standing up for, You know, basically, half of who I am, but I'm interested to hear how Alvin is dealing with it with His children?

H I think with my kids, it's I don't think that they see it as a burden at all. I actually think they they they see it as an advantage. Like, like, they feel deeply connected to both cultures and they see it as well. I will also give it a little bit of context. We live in the Saint Gabriel Valley Here in Los Angeles, which is basically a part of Los Angeles where half the population is Asian and half the population is Latino, So my my kids get to be majority in both contexts, which whichever context they're in here. But I think it's also Shifted a lot because of shifts in popular culture in America. Right? So let's say even just within the last 10 years, Now it's possible to see Asians on mainstream television and in popular media and seen as desirable and seen as Cool. And there actually are people that they can look up to and admire that are the people that people are trying to be like in popular mainstream culture.

H And I think there was a time, you know, all of us in the this space now will recognize this where there weren't those examples. Right. The only examples of Asians being portrayed in popular media were either objectified as sex objects or vilified as villains or dehumanized as less than or the kind of extreme of the kind of martial arts stoic Superhero. Right? And so there all 4 of those examples are, let's say, less than aspirational and probably placed in more of a position of nonhuman. I think now we're looking at a case where whether it is their Latin culture or their, Asian culture, But not just for them. I think in general for their generation, and this is something I see with my students as well as with my children, Being mixed race is now a normal thing. Right? It it it it is so normative. And and so this next generation is so much So much more progressive than we ever were.

H Like, my my kids are obsessed with this movie right now they've been watching. My daughter's in the musicals called Prom, And it's a movie about a kind of school that does a, a gay prom to allow for its Gay students have a prom experience and my daughter's running around all day singing this song about how it's so hard to be gay in Indiana. And, you know, she's never been to India and she's not gay, but, you know, it it it it's it's really beautiful. Right? And and it's amazing And, you know, like, she and her friends and everybody around us, I think, in that generation sees the world in a very, very different way, than we did where I think we grew up in a moment where it was a very binary condition of you are or you are not. And, you know, maybe more extreme would be, like, on on the black end of that spectrum where, like, you know, there's literally the one drop rule. Right? You you One drop of black blood and you are black. But then, you know, now there's even like I I Saw this recently. There's a TikTok movement going around, you know, the the video app where all these mixed race People or children or young people are actually sharing the stories of what you just described, Annie, very specifically of Mixed race people who can identify visually as being white and all of the racial slurs that they actually get a chance to overhear Because they're placed into spaces where people assume that they are not other.

H And, I don't know. I I I think that with my kids right now, it's not something that I see this as, you know, a totally positive trend. And one of the things that has been compelling me throughout all of 2020 is, like, despite all of the Nasty shit we've been seeing and feeling and hearing whether it's between BLM or anti Asian hate or Any of the above. Like, what I see in the next generation is very, very different than what I see happening amongst us, like, our our age groups.

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G Hey, Evelyn. I want to ask this question because, You know, yesterday, one of those fuming things for me that I posted on Instagram Instagram is this. You know, you guys know about this show that's going on at MoMA right now, reconstructions, which are a group of, black architects, Basically, in their own respective cities sort of rediscovering or claiming, you know, black spaces and stuff. And I posted on Instagram because I heard that the show was cut down short, first of all. And for the first time, probably of, any kind of Museum of Modern Art Show, They did not acquire any of the work in their collections. And they also refused to let the show travel, which there have been requests. So that got me, like, really upset. And I was also thinking about then, you know, have we as Asian Architects, you know, have we actually also done something like that? The rediscovery of, you know, Asian spaces in Cities that are buried in their history.

G I mean, certainly, this goes back to curricula, you know, like, in k through 12. Right? I mean, if I think back about US history because I came here from my last 2 years of high school, I remember taking US history. I don't really remember any thing other than that, you know, there are these Chinese people who came and worked on the railroads and then, you know, Menzanar. Right? And that's about it The mentioning of Asian cultures and stuff. You know, so both in terms of the curriculum and also in terms of whether We need to also rediscover Asian spaces in cities. I wonder how you guys feel.

H Well, if you got Manzanar, you already got more than most. You know, I would say even that is typically my experience was not discovered in like, pre College experience, and the only reason I discovered it was because of the Asian American studies minor. But I think it is a a a complex one that I think is, I don't know of any, and I would say that that is maybe going back to, you know, my previous comments about we have not been a very vocal minority, and we have been a minority that has chosen to take the path of blending in. And I I think maybe that is one of the things that,

F You know, is the complexity

H of the issue. Previously, Anna, you talked about how our, you know, East Asian heritage, responds to kind of, like, let's say, the greater good and and thinking about what's best for the community, but the perception of what's best for the community oftentimes is About blending in, right? That blending in is what's best for the community rather than drawing attention and rather than Putting a spotlight on any of our issues or our struggles, it's actually to put your head down and overcome them despite those situations.

I I was just remembering recalling when my grandfather my father talked about my grandfather and all of the community, they Had their own bank. Right? They lent to each other because they didn't trust anyone else. And they come together on Sundays And, oh, Alvin, you wanna start a business? You wanna start a restaurant? Or you wanna start, you know, a farm? I don't know, any of those things. You wanna start an architecture practice. Yes. Okay. Annie, thing. Let's all Evelyn, let's all chip in and help Alvin.

I And, Alvin, you'd pay it back. So it wasn't just only about blending in, but helping each other building our own community. And, you know, I think the whole model minority Was meant to keep us from also creating common cause and having a stronger voice in civil rights. So, you know, when people just laud us as being, law abiding, Socioeconomically strong, taking pride in education that, you know, it's also about keeping us apart. So, you know, it's just what we do with ourselves and what society does to us.

G Yeah. I mean, I found recently, and I need to find out where that source is, but a good quarter of the kind of pan Asian, demographics live below poverty poverty line. So in a way, like, our total Asian group and Asian group is in fact the most sort of impoverished in terms of the proportion of folks who are living below poverty line, more so than Black more so than Latino Latino population. And I need to find that statistic. So there are many people of now needs. Right? Yeah.

F Yeah. It's specific, I believe, to New York City, but I believe it was New York City. 1 in 1

H in 4 1 in 4 Asians are living below the poverty line. Yeah. Which is higher than any other ethnic group.

E Right.

H But it is very clearly, like, let's say, that our community is often Defined monolithically and defined monolithically by the success of those at the extreme end of things, You know, those that are the the stereotypes of going to Harvard and going to math camp and, overachievements are both things that define us, but then at the same time, you know, I think that's something that I, you know, mentioned in the my little talk which was We see that at the academic level, but oftentimes, if that same, you know, proportion of student success at the academic level is reflected to the profession and into leadership and into, like, let's say, the pedestal level of those that, let's say, Come in on our lecture series or in the exhibitions or those that are actually moving the needle of who our aspirations are, Then we're not being reflected in the same proportion. Right? Because if you look at, you know, the industry as a whole right now and, You know, Annie, you teach as well. You know, when we look at our our student bodies that we're dealing with, you know, Asians and Asian Americans are Highly, highly represented and and some would argue overrepresented. But then when you look at practice leadership or Lecture series or, kind of the impact on the profession. There's a clear filtering out That is occurring in terms of reaching that upper pinnacle of representation and leading the field.

G Right. That's a kind of really interesting point and maybe a point that needs to be more, you know, studied 2, you know, where where did the dropout occur, and why can't, more of the agents rise to that leadership level. But I think that we have to also acknowledge that within our Asian cultures and the Chinese culture also, and the Japanese culture, There's an embedded class system that has gone on for history. Like even, I think, that The issue of class is probably its own bias, right, within our own group. You know, our parents, our grandparents group, they're very obvious, right, that they are trying to Get up the ladder to be of a different class. So somehow that issue of hanging on to The class or the cast, you know, within the Asian cultures, even amongst Asian cultures. Right? You guys probably all seen that Ali Wong baby cobra. You know, did you see that one? That that kind of comedy skit where she talked about the difference between the different, Asian cultures.

G And the

H the class becomes fancy Asian, half the population.

G Yeah. They're half right. The fancy Asian post Olympic taking the jungle, Asian Compose Disease or something. Right? That kind of thing. So even amongst ourselves, there's this kind of racist and class idea going on here. But I was also thinking about you know, you guys all heard about recently. I only heard about recently about The 18 people massacre in the, Los Angeles Chinatown that happened in the 1800? I mean, we Yeah.

F It's the largest the

G history of

F the country.

G Of the country are Chinese you know, 18 Chinese people being basically lynched and killed In LA Chinatown, and you don't see a memorial, you don't see a plaque. We never heard about it. I never heard about it until recently. And I only knew recently that the entire Union Station train station was built on top of what was Chinatown. Right? And that whole displacement, nothing is recorded, that somehow these history, like you said, you know, of staying quiet and being kind of Living up to that kind of model minority myth basically, shut down a lot of our own Sense of identity that that I think must have some devastating effect even in terms of the confidence of our children to come. You know, why isn't this race these races have a a history? Why are we not studying it? And Yeah. Right. Because you that that whole phrase about, you know, if you don't remember it, you know, you're bound to repeat your mistakes again kind of thing.

G Yeah. So I'm wondering if education, you know, at that k to 12 level or to the public Maybe something that we all need to spend some time focusing on.

I You know, in your and, Alvin, in your teaching, do you ever bring in Your Asian heritage into your class lectures, or do you bring Asian practitioners into your into your work?

F Maybe not so specifically about Asianness, but definitely about No.

I Not necessarily. I mean, you mentioned, You know, you mentioned LA 10, and I'm trying to think of, you know, like, Mylan. We just went through Athens, Ohio. I was on our drive through to Arkansas. Yeah. And I think of well, I went to Ohio State, so I think of my, you know, Ohio Part of my Ohio roots. But just curious if if that ever, you know, plays into your practice, plays into your teaching.

F I would say that for myself, like, the acknowledgment of the canon of architecture, Having been defined by a predominantly white male perspective is something that comes up constantly and something that I acknowledge Quite frequently, in particular because, you know, like, for example, recently, well, not that recently. I guess it was before the pandemic because it was a walking tour that I did with students, but we I did a walking tour through Venice Beach with a bunch of students where we went to go look at a bunch of projects that were designed by the LA ten. So Tom Maine, Eric Owen Moss, Frank Gehry, Frederick Fisher, a bunch of old white men that, you know, did fantastic architecture. And It dawned on me as we were walking that, literally, not one of my students was ever going to grow up to be an old white man. And I I I stopped and turned to all of them and said, you know, I I realized we're going to go look at a bunch of buildings by a bunch of people that don't look like you or you will ever look like or be able to identify with. It doesn't preclude it from being great architecture, but it is something to remember and acknowledge and think about that, You know, that's why you're here, and that's why we're we're doing this is so that someday somebody else can go on a tour, and it won't just be old white men. And I think it's also something that we're trying to acknowledge at USC. As director of the program, one of the things I'm working I'm doing is working with our history theory faculty to identify what we're trying to call as Canonical versus non canonical in terms of saying, okay.

F If the canon of of architecture is historically dominated from a singular perspective, It doesn't mean it's less important, but it does mean that there's other perspectives to take into account. So how do we share that perspective? But every time we share a canonical Writing or piece of work or case study that there's always a counterpoint, which is either something that comes from outside of the canon that share similar values or maybe something that comes from outside of the canon that challenges those values, in terms of thinking about, You know, the fact that architecture is not a Western European conception, it's actually something that is A global phenomenon. We we you know, all cultures have architecture and all cultures have great architecture. It doesn't mean that, you know, only The Mises of the world are the ones that we can acknowledge as that's the aspiration. And then I would also say that in my practice, I've definitely taken advantage of my Asianness in terms of my international work in Thailand, China, in particular, those 2 countries. But, I would say in those 2 places, I've been able to secure work And GetWork because I think of my, as I would put it, feet in both worlds. The fact that they are looking for expertise and Western, kind of influence in their architectural spheres, but that I can connect with my clients there And understand their values a little bit differently than somebody who is not doesn't have a shared heritage with them.

A As a young architect coming into the profession or as somebody who is a firm leader with an established practice, you know, what where are the opportunities Going forward, to create more diversity, to bring more of this thought leadership forward, To uncover the history, I think there's definitely some truth in what Alvin's saying about his children being mixed and and my children are mixed and Ming's children Are mixed. You know, that that it's it's not a burden. It's an opportunity. But how do we set up that next generation for success? And and where, you know, what can we do from our position?

D I mean, I think representation really matters. My partner and I run a growing and we're both Asian American women. And, you know, the reality of running an architecture practice and being a leader in the profession like all of you on this call are, It's not what we thought it was in school. It's not about being like a lone wolf, a brilliant man who, is like an artistic genius who is Kinda isolated from the the realities of the world. I think running a practice is much more complex and much more open than that, and becoming an An architect that gives a lecture at USC or becoming an architect that leads a chapter of the AIA, there are a lot of paths to that that we're not that I wasn't aware of. I thought when When I was at the GSD, I thought there was only one way to be an architect, and I knew I was never gonna be that kind of architect. But it turns out there's actually a lot of different ways to be an architect. And, You know, the perception is that, you know, an Asian student who's trained to excel, we excel as great employees, but maybe not great firm leaders.

D But There's so much out there that can be done, and I don't know. It's part of my personal agenda is, like, giving students skills to know how to start their own Architecture firms and learn how to become a leader in the profession and try to find their unique path through the profession because there's a lot of ways in. And then I think elevating elevating voices that are not traditionally heard. And I think the schools, like, even you know, I'm like an old millennial. I think there's a couple other old millennials on call. Things have changed a lot since I was in school in terms of who's featured at lectures and who's leading studios, and I think schools are doing a better and better job, and a lot of that is driven by, I think, the next generation's hunger for social justice. And they are So much more advanced and so much more progressive than we ever were, and they're demanding change from their schools. But I I feel like there's a lot of hope out there if we can Open the door to people and show them there's a path in.

I Evelyn, you know, in your in your series on With the AIA, the Practice Innovation Lab, thinking about alternative paths from traditional practice, not that I don't Admire all of you for having your own practices. I've always existed outside of that. I started out in traditional practice, but Then went into city government and into nonprofit management as a leader and also in AIA. And so, You know, understanding that in our work, collaboration is key and finding different ways of bringing that into practice. Is it through government? Is it through construction? Are you a developer? Are you an educator? But, I mean, you can do all these things at the same time. Right? That I think the next generation, the real gift is that they multitask much better than we all do. So finding new ways of developing a practice that builds community, that's collaborative, that strengthens all the different voices, And does things beautifully in terms of design excellence and problem creative problem solving. I just think there's endless possibilities.

I And how do it the thing is, how do we all more seasoned, not necessarily as seasoned as I am, But, bring those voices to the fore and build their confidence that they can do it.

F For me, really thinking about diversity, equity, inclusion as things that we want to think about systematically rather than Additively. And I think that is the thing that I feel is the big knee jerk reaction to 2020 that has happened in a lot of places, Is that diversity has been treated a little bit like sprinkles on top of a cupcake. You know, like like, we can keep the cupcake as it is and Throw some sprinkles on top, and now we have diversity, which in a lot of ways as an architect, I I think of maybe the way a lot of Like, LEED works in terms of thinking about sustainability. Right? Like, you can design the building, and then at the end, throw some solar panels, put some recycling stations, Bike racks. And now you've got a a LEED certified building that, is sustainable, but it was really never part of the active Integration of the design and truly sustainable architecture actually up comes from a design standpoint. Right? Whether whether you're siting the building, whether you're Looking at the solar orientation, how you're designing for natural ventilation and daylighting and all of these things that are at the core of making the architecture better, not just getting that checkbox. Right? And so if we think about diversity in that same way, it's actually part of the design process of culture and trying to identify what the culture we want to have exist, Whether it's in our schools, in our firms, in our practices, in our daily lives, and that we are going out of our way, to say that, you know, like at USC, One of the things that we've done is change our admission requirements to say that it's not just a GPA, GRE test scores, And your portfolio strength that we're adding a quantifiable thing, which we're identifying as ability to contribute to student culture, Which is a little bit of a gray area, but it gives us leverage to say, okay. What are we see this student as adding value in a different way Or this student is adding value in another way.

F And those become ways that we can measure metrics In in terms of beginning to think about the value that we get from culture, and I think the culture of a studio or an office or a school is really something that thrives off of its diversity. Like, same the same way that, our cities do, the same way that our Ecosystems do like, if we think of diversity and culture as a sort of ecology, then balance is required. Right? It it it means that you can't just throw something in, you have to actually have a mixture of things that give and take and that, kind of live off of one another.

G I'll pick up the issue about diversity in a different way. The word intersectionality have sort of come to our consciousness, as of late. But I'm noting that we have, 4 women here, 5, including Janine here, and, Alvin. I think the struggle that I have sort of subscribed to in architecture Was more about getting women's voices in the profession. Like Ellen had said, you know, so many of his students and so many of mine We're women, and then, you know, they drop out, and they don't get into any leadership position. So that has always been, like, my first priority. If they are Asian, Better, you know, then I'm supporting also that intersectional minority as well. But you can also do that In terms of the disciplines.

G Like, architecture is a wide discipline, but, you know, I have very long time ago realized that My definition of architecture is that architecture is there to support a space, to support an interior. Like, architecture makes a space. So I've always been quite upset that architects don't get into the interior and don't study it and see it as a kind of a minor Activity or activity always subscribed to women, throughout history. So, About 10 years ago, I think I left USC to go and teach interior architecture at Woodbury. And, you know, one of the activities that we end up doing was to come up with a symposium called Unmentionables. The Unmentionables Symposium basically said, you know, anything that you cannot say in architecture school that you can say here in the symposium. And these ideas that have been dormant, that have been seen as minor, that are unworthy of bringing into the kind of architecture fold are in fact to be celebrated. And I feel that for young people, I think in terms of charting their path, I would like to encourage people to think of the possibility of hyphenation.

G Like, you're not just an architect. Right. You're an architect interior designer. You're an architect acoustical expert or you know, there There are these other identities that make you unique wherever that might be in terms of within even within the discipline And certainly within your own sort of culture that you grew up in. And I think that the world would be better if we honor all the people With many hyphens after that first word architect, and I see that as a hopeful thing.

A Janine, I'd be interested in kind of your first impression reactions to what you you heard and and the stories you listen to.

B I think in listening to the stories initially, what I really heard were these references back to family. And I think one of the unique things about being an an Asian American person is, you know, your family does come to the United States from another country, and there is kind of like a journey in that Story that you discover and becomes a part of your identity. And so I think the immigration story is really important to the Asian American Experience from my perspective. And I certainly heard that in the conversation, and I wonder based on where you guys Landed if, if maybe that's really where where the opportunity exists to kinda explore more of the The cultural piece of the family and all of these rich, wonderful, valuable experiences that you all have from your families.

A Yeah. I have to actually say that I personally really struggle with that because of how quickly my family was to assimilate. Right? So it is really hard to dig into my parents' past. Both my my mom and my dad Don't really talk about it. My dad had a really rough experience growing up When he moved to the States, I think he failed a grade because he he didn't know how to speak English. He was in elementary school. And, you know, he was living in not great housing. I don't actually think it could Could be considered a house.

A I think it was more of like a a garage that his family of, like, 5 grew up in, and he was running a laundromat. And then Somehow, you know, he ended up rising above all of that, you know, to get his PhD in plasma physicist, plasma physics from UCLA. My mom, there's only so much I know about her history. It was interesting to Here are the other stories about the escape from communist China because that was such a a singular story to me. It was something that That my mom went through. Obviously, there was a ton of Chinese people that did that, but I never I never heard anyone else talk about it. But anyways, that that's to say that, you know, so much of what that ancestral history is For me, it's actually hard to to dig up. It's something that my parents don't talk about openly unless I, like, dig and ask for questions.

A And, You know, it was not more than 2, 3 years ago that I've I the the loss my last living grandparent passed away. So that's something that I actually struggle with In terms of the disconnect of what I'm able to teach my next generation, like, teach my son and daughter about where they came from And not having that more direct connection to my broader past.

B I think the most impactful thing that I experienced in relation to this conversation was when we were recording your Intro. I can't remember. A couple of episodes ago. And you were talking about your own feelings about the shooting in Georgia, and We didn't catch it on audio. It happened after we stopped recording, but you just had this moment where You were completely vulnerable, and you told me that you were afraid and you couldn't change The color of your skin, and I've heard people say that before, but just hearing it from you, you're my friend, And it in in such a vulnerable way, it just really I don't think I'll ever be the same after hearing that. So, you know, it's been hardier over the past year, and I have learned so much. And I think, there's just a lot of more conversations that need to happen, and everybody has to, you know, be willing to listen to other people's stories. I mean, that's been a theme across all of these episodes that we've done.

B But when you you really understand what it means to walk in someone else's shoes, Your your understanding of their experiences completely change.

A Yeah. And I think my biggest takeaway from all this is just how How little I know and how little I understand, even about being Chinese American, about The implications of the model minority about what we've kind of done to ourselves as A demographic group because we put our heads down and we work hard and we don't speak out And and those that are so underrepresented. And the CAS system, which, you know Which I I am I am guilty of attributing to having said things historically About the systems that, you know, exist. So, you know, I guess as a Chinese American saying that I have so much more to learn about being Chinese American, which to me means that, like, we all have so much more to learn even about ourselves and about where we've came from. And on that note, thank you for listening, and tune in next week. Thank you again to our podcast partner, Monograph.

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