Latina Voices in Practice

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, disruptors. This week on Practice Disrupted, Janine and I had the pleasure of setting aside our roles as hosts and joining the audience by listening to a conversation between 4 incredible Latinas within the industry. We hope you appreciate this addition to our diverse voices collection. Learn from their stories, draw connections between their conversations and your career, and together, find ways to add more voices like theirs to the practice of architecture.

C I don't know if there was ever a specific time or moment where I felt held back or treated differently. I am not immediately jumping to any moments of overt discrimination, and I feel blessed in that. But it's really more a 1, 000 tiny cuts. Those moments when you feel alone in the room or those moments where you see others advancing and you question yourself and you doubt yourself. I will say that I was once at a state conference, in Louisiana where I started my career, and they were honoring everyone who had gotten licensed that year. And they were announcing everyone's name, and it was a white male, white male, white male. There was only 1 other female honored for getting licensed that year, and she was white. And that was the moment I decided to move out of Louisiana and come to Miami and not feel like the only Latina in the room to to be surrounded by people like me.

C And I feel that that has done a lot for both my career and my mental sanity. And so I think it's the the tiny for me, the tiny cuts, those moments where you see the white bros broing out with their white bosses and not having an end to the conversation to bond with your boss in that way, that moment where you walk into the room as a only female and are kinda talk to, like, a little girl that doesn't know. And all of those things add up, to hold you back. So that I think that's what I experienced earlier in my career, more so than a singular over moment.

D My name is Sibone Diaz Sanchez. I couldn't decide which story to tell, which trauma to reflect on, which 1 to tell without reliving it, which 1 would need a content warning, how to tell it without feeling self loathing, how to tell a story with the right balance of demographic data, context, and personal experience, how to be authentic in retelling the truths without being too emotional in fear of feeding stereotypes. Sometimes reflecting on my identities with an architecture seems like weird victimhood in a world that is on fire. It can feel ridiculous to complain about instances where my identities caused pain while living a life of opportunity. But my practices have been disrupted or redefined because of how my gender, and I thought maybe I would talk about witnessing xenophobia in college, gendered study material, or being sexually harassed while employed at an architecture firm. These instances don't define me, but they inform my tone, my rhythm, my priorities, my communities, my urgencies, my rest. I am a licensed architect in the state of Texas. I moved to Boston in 2019 for the Enterprise Rose Fellowship.

D I did not pay reciprocity to practice in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts since my role within the fellowship did not require me to practice architecture. While a resident of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I never received payment for or engaged in architecture practice. In 2021, I was nominated for the Boston Society of Architects, also known as the BSA, Board of Directors and initially included on the ballot without my consent. Shortly after, I was notified about a complaint for a title usage violation, and an investigation was opened. Title usage violation, board of registration of architects, part 1, title 16, chapter 120, section 60 k. I cannot prove the nomination to the BSA board of directors directly resulted in the complaint being filed, but the timeline tells a story. My profile was the only 1 on the ballot without a photo, bio, or link. I was placed on the BSA Board of Directors ballot without my consent because the BSA forgot 1 of my last names in my email.

D The role on the board I was nominated for was Director of Equity. I was the only nominee. I was unknowingly running unopposed. I later consented to the nomination while being investigated. The violation was a semantic error. Any confusion by semantics in published online bios was not intended to claim reciprocity. I corrected cited bios after being notified about the investigation. I also submitted 2 years of quarterly reports, my Texas Architectural license, my NCARB records, letters from leaders in support, and work samples from my fellowship.

D I ask that the investigation be closed. The Massachusetts Board of Registration of Architects voted to assign me a prosecutor. I retained legal counsel to assist in navigating a prosecution. I paid a fine and signed a consent agreement. What felt insidious about it all is that I was a mentor in Boston. I am an adjunct faculty member at the Boston Architectural College. I teach community practice. In 2021, I was a justice, equity, diversity, inclusion panelist at NCARB's regional summit.

D I was a panelist for the BSA panel on housing in 2020, and I was 1 of 4 to judge the BSA AIA New York Housing Design Awards. I am an architect. My identity as an architect is not defined by avoiding reciprocity fees. I respect the title of an architect. I worked hard for it. I recognize the responsibilities of an architect to provide safe spaces for people. I don't know who reported me, but I wonder what part of my existence they fear, what part of my presence makes them angry, And I hope they find peace.

E Hi, everybody. My name is Vanessa Alicia Chucky. I'm excited to share a little bit, with you all about myself. Just quickly, I'm a architect in New York and New Jersey. I'm Nuyorican, which means I'm Puerto Rican, born and raised in New York. I recently completed my master's in urban policy and leadership, and I have been trying to redirect my practice more towards community engagement and community design, and embracing sort of design justice and energy equity in that work. So a quick story about a time that I felt, that I was sort of held back or treated differently in the profession, I would say, has to do with my name. And so my name is Vanessa Alisaya.

E I got married later in life a few years ago, and I decided to hyphenate. And I think it's interesting when we think about language and and and names and titles, because I found that a lot of people thought I had 2 first names, I think. I was called Vanessa Alicia a lot, and I think that that moving forward in my career actually helped me because a lot of people didn't, I think people didn't realize I was Latina, until I started to speak up a little bit more and regain my voice. And 1 of the things that I've noticed more recently is I, you know, I left sort of corporate America. I tried to, you know, started my own practice. And, now with my new hyphenated name, I noticed when I go to events and things, people do a double take, because it's hard to, I guess, for them to wrap around their head around, the second part of my last name now, which is my husband's name, Chuqui, which is Quechua, which is, indigenous, 1 of the indigenous languages in Ecuador. And, I think it's been really interesting to see how, people sort of struggle or try and say my name. Sometimes I'm called Alicia, which is not my name.

E Right? It's Alicea Chukki. So that was sort of an interesting thing that I've noticed about names. I've been fortunate where if I was younger in my career and had done this name change, I do think that I would be a little bit in a different place. I've noticed that people with more ethnic sounding names occasionally, it's a little harder for them to to, move forward.

F My name is Alicia Ponce, and I'm the founder and principal of EP Monarch, a Chicago based Latina and woman owned firm. And I am the founder and chair of Argentina, a national nonprofit with a mission to raise a number of licensed Latina architects in the US. And I guess you could say that these 2 reasons were created due to the fact of some of my setbacks, but it's also they were also moved by my passion to 1, practice sustainable and 2, help women and Latinas become licensed architects because of my own personal experience. I started my business because, when I was I was laid off in 2007, and this was right around the time where, the 2008 economic downturn was was coming. So ignorance was bliss, and I thought what better time than now than to start a business. I started it because I really wanted a practice that focused on sustainable architecture, and this was the opportunity to do so in light of not getting that opportunity once when voiced when I voiced that interest, when I raised my hand, when I saw others, you know, get that opportunity. Not to say that I never had opportunities because we don't get to where we are alone, but I didn't get equal opportunity. And then there's Arquitina.

F That whole experience of licensure, that whole journey, setback after setback, but relentless optimism is what keeps me going. Being the daughter of Mexican immigrants, it taught me skills very early on of an entrepreneur because growing up I would see my grandparents and my parents always figuring things out in the name of, you know, providing that quality of life for their family, that quality of life for, you know, friends, that opportunity. And so it was those examples that I like to to use and have seen that, you know what, if I had a setback during my journey, this is what drives me and helps Latinas across the country. If I can make that journey less, if I can make it less painful, more insightful, more informative, then, you know, I know that I'm I'm doing the right thing. So let's talk.

B Hello, listeners. Today, we are bringing back our conversations on diversity in the profession by having 4 amazing women join us who happen to represent Latinas in architecture, and we are so proud about the timing of this episode that it's being released on the 1st day of National Hispanic Heritage Month. I am gonna turn over the conversation to a good friend of mine, Vanessa Alicia Chucky, And she is gonna moderate the conversation between these 4 women.

G Thank you so much, Evelyn. Really excited to be here today. My name is Vanessa Alicia Chukchi, and we're excited to have, Sibone Diaz Sanchez, Alicia Ponce, and Vanessa Smith Torres with us for today's conversation. I'm going to, introduce themselves, and, also include where you grew up, where you live now, and maybe why you chose to be an architect. Maybe a sense of who's on the call or on the recording today. Let's start with, Vanessa Smith Torres.

H Hello. Thank you. Thank you for having me. My name is Vanessa Smith Torres. I was born in Puerto Rico, grew up in New York, went to college in Boston, went to grad school in New Orleans, and then I currently practice in Miami. So slightly nomadic. And I think I I went into architecture because I have the mind of an engineer, but the heart of an artist. So architecture combines the 2, And I'm happy to be here today to talk about this.

G Great. Thank you. Can we now have Alicia Ponce? Can you introduce yourself?

F Of course. Thank you, Vanessa. And it's I'm so happy to be here with these amazing architects. I am in Chicago, born and raised in Chicago and has have always lived here, created my practice here. I am the daughter of Mexican immigrants, and I wanna say that architecture picked me and, you know, growing up born and raised in Chicago, but growing up going to Mexico in the summers, immersed in nature and coming across a construction site. At the age of 6, I it just I just knew. I I didn't know what it was, but I knew that's what I wanted to do. I'm happy to be here.

F Can't wait to talk.

G Thank you. Sibone?

I Hi. Thanks so much for having me. Sibone Diaz Sanchez. I was born in San Antonio. I identify as Tejana in in my Latin because it's very regional. And I went to school in Ithaca and came back to work. Actually, I did spend some time waiting tables and working in retail in Chicago before returning to San Antonio to work in for profit architecture. My background sort of changed, as I got into more zoning spaces.

I And then I moved to Boston, to be an affordable housing developer for nonprofit community development corporations for the Enterprise Rose Fellowship. I lived in Detroit, this past year while working remotely in Boston, and I just moved back to San Antonio, to be a part of our city's first affordable housing municipal bond. And so I am the community engagement administrator for the city of San San Antonio's Neighborhood and Housing Services Department, which is a whole lot, especially when you have a hyphenated name. But I'm really happy to be here and and talk with you wonderful women. Go ahead, Vanessa. I know you haven't done your introduction yet.

G Yes. So just a little bit about me, Vanessa Alisaichukui. I am an architect in New York and New Jersey. Just recently relocated to New Jersey. Currently an equity in action, postdoctoral fellow, at Kean University. So I straddle academia and professional practice. I recently started my own practice, in New York and New Jersey, and so working on sort of community based design. Native New Yorker, or what you would call New Rican, which is Puerto Rican, born and raised

F in New York.

G Trying to figure out what that translates into in that we just moved to New Jersey or we moved to New Jersey post COVID or during COVID. But I'm excited to get to know, sort of a new a new place, and I'm excited to finally be connected with some of our fellow Latina architects, that we're sort of have on the call today. Okay. So let's get started. I think first, some of you might have touched on this. You sort of wanna find out why did you choose to become an architect and what do you love about architecture. And I'll just I'll start and preface it in that I never really had an answer to this question until about until hurricane Maria. Actually, I didn't realize how important being able to have a home is.

G My growing up, my my uncle's an architect, and he, designed and built a house for my grandparents in Puerto Rico. It's the house that I would spend all my summers in. So I feel like I was actually groomed into being an architect and that I was, like, there while they were building it. And, my grandfather used to always talk about the house he wanted to build on top of the hill. During hurricane Maria, I was working in a large firm, in in New York, working on affordable housing project. And I learned that the house that I spent my summers in was destroyed. And I really it it it made me do a pivot. But I also realized how important it was for me to be able to build a house for my mother.

G And so I think that was when I had this, like, moment where I was like this is this is what I was sort of groomed to do is to be able to build a house for my mom. And so it's sort of silly, and I think I realized it at, like, 35. I think it was something that was always familiar to me. I did architecture in high school. I was fortunate to actually have the opportunity to do that. My father was a carpenter, so I sort of grew up in the woodshop. So it was always something that was familiar to me. But now I'm actually realizing, like, what do I love about architecture? I am actually realizing that I care more about people than buildings.

G And so it's been an interesting transition for me, to understand sort of the role of of how they how, you know, how buildings can really impact, people's wellness, health, and and well-being. And and it's something that I'm interested in exploring more. But I wanna switch over to, maybe Alicia, you can tell us, you know, a little bit more about why you chose to become an architect and what you love about architecture. I know your firm is AP Monarch. I I've actually been interested to learn a little bit more about that decision of, you know, naming naming a practice is always interesting to see sort of how, you know, what what it's named after. And and I I followed some of LinkedIn. And so I was just curious maybe you could talk about that too.

F No. Thank you for asking. And that's it's connected to the way that I grew up. And I, again, I was asked we get asked all the time, why did you choose architecture? Right? And and I guess it was the way that I experienced architecture as as a kid and the way we do throughout our whole lives. Right? And, now looking at it and looking at it in my practice in AP Monarch, it's like, you know, architecture defines cultures, and who gets to define those cultures? And furthermore, where I grew up in nature, I always have this curiosity and respect for nature. And to start AP Monarch, that was the mission behind it, is to build and design architecture that is responsive to nature, that respects it. And just hearing about hurricane Maria with all of these, you know, global global climate change. Right? These hurricanes are occurring at a faster rate, at a stronger rate.

F And I feel like as architects, we have the power to to, design buildings that respond to that. Right? You know, buildings across the globe emit 70% of carbon emissions to the environment. So what is our responsibility? And as a child, I didn't know there's no way that I could have ever articulated that. Right? But this is what it has become. AP Monarch, I I never set out to start a business, but I did it because I was, 1, laid off in 2007. It was just around the time where, you know, the house bubble economy was about to burst, and a lot of people were about to lose their jobs, but we didn't know it. But I said, you know, I I'm laid off. What better time than to start a business? I don't have any responsibilities.

F I've worked for several years at big firms and I've always wanted to work on this type of architecture, but I never had the mentors that fostered that learning, that curiosity. There was not that representation. And so it was a combination of things of why I started AP Monarch. Right? Because I really wanted to practice this type of architecture. Nobody there to really mentor me. Not to say that I didn't have any mentors, but the proper guidance, and then to pursue sustainable architecture. But AP Monarch is, you know, AP is are my are my initials or as somebody pointed out, architecture and planning. How fitting was that? And then monarch, the monarch butterfly is has a couple of meanings.

F And 1, it is, where my family is from in the state of Michoacan, and this is where the the monarch butterfly migrates to and from Canada. If you haven't visited the sanctuaries in Michoacan or Canada, please do. It's a beautiful, magical place. And then the monarch butterfly, represents a healthy environment. So we call ourselves the pollinators of the built environment where the air is is healthy, the water is healthy. So we make a a really intent, you know, approach to our designs and architecture.

G That's fascinating. It's really exciting to hear. It's nice to see, the concept of architecture defining culture. I really like that, and I hope we can sort of come back to that a little bit. I'd like to sort of hear from, sort of why did you choose to become an architect and what you love about architecture. And I know you're in a slightly sort of different field or I don't wanna say you're you sort of move beyond architecture. So I wanna, you know, sort of hear a little bit about that decision, as well.

I Thanks. You know, I I think your point, Vanessa, about the ways in which it's very personal. Architecture is very personal. And that I never know how to really answer that question. I'm very I don't wanna say political, but I'm very critical of architecture. Right? I I think that there is a lot of potential of the ways in which architecture can be practiced, and I'm constantly trying to reevaluate priorities as it relates to the practice. I think as the design professions continue to diversify, thanks to the work that, you know, Alicia is doing and everyone here on the call is doing. The the ways in which practice is evolving is is really encouraging.

I I came to architecture through dance. It was it was a recognition of space through bodies. How are we continuing to understand ourselves in bodies? I I thought I was gonna be flamenco dancer for a really long period of time, and I was actually pretty good. I can't say I was good at very many things, that I was good at that. There was a question about the financial stability of pursuing Flamenco dance versus studying architecture. And so I was able to recognize it in my, you know, in my thesis. That's what I wrote about dancing about architecture. The ways in which it's it's really about movement, right, how we're occupying space and how we're respecting each other in that space.

I I did mention I, you know, I have gotten into trouble, over being, you know, politicizing situations, which which I I my response to that is my by my body and my being are politicized. And so if I'm practicing architecture, that is what it is. Recently came across, I don't know if you all know, Eliana Schinder. She recently wrote a book called Housing for Humans, and I'm gonna quote part of it. She said, I used to believe that architects and planners were the main influencers on the shape of the city as if the urban experience could be sculpted by design until I learned that 1 of the most influential factors in how the housing shortage today was not designed but decreed by law. And so that's sort of the the ways in which I think about my career trajectories. Right? I was frustrated with the scope of work that was being proposed to me as an architect, and then that's when I became a developer. And I was hiring architects and changing the scope to ensure that our role as the clients were including the voices of our residents and of our communities.

I And now this switch this position is we have all of this money that we need to spend. What are the ways in which we are communicating how we're spending that funding specifically for housing? So I I think my work tends to go towards what is needed. And the question about whether or not I'm practicing right is is, is kind of intense and dramatic. Right? It's like, am I reviewing drawings? Of course, I miss that. But then I break away from a city budget conversation to come and to speak to you all. Right? So I'm still connected to these worlds. And, yeah, I think I follow where there is the most need and where my skill sets that have architecture backgrounds and roots are most effective. I still teach at the Boston Architectural College a class called community practice, which is a required course and actually first class is tomorrow and I'm really excited because that's that's generative.

I Right? That's that's a way in which I'm learning from potential mentees. And so, yeah, I I love a lot of things about what architecture can be, and how other people are continuing to reimagine it. I'm I'm less interested in the ways in which it has been defined, and who was defining it before.

G Thank you. That's so interesting because I actually, after working about 11 years in a civic architecture firm, I realized that most of the decisions are being made by other people and a lot of the parameters for projects have already been defined by the time it comes to an architect. And, in in trying to shift over to more community based design, I realized policy and laws make a huge part of of how how our cities are built. So I actually did go back to school for urban policy and leadership. I got a a COVID degree. I guess you can call it that. But it's really fascinating to see, how much of the built environment is really dictated by policy. And and to have architects at some of these other tables is really, really important.

G So yeah. So now let's shift over to Vanessa. Vanessa, it's with Torres. If you can tell us a little bit about why you chose to become an architect and what do you love about architecture.

H Well, I I think it's really funny how much overlap we have without knowing it because I actually, for a period of my life, thought I was gonna be an dancer and wanted to pursue that professionally. And I did my undergraduate degree actually in theater. And I always talk about these spaces that I've left feeling like they didn't really belong to me and or there wasn't a space for me there and not really knowing why. Now that I'm older, I know why, and I recognize why, and I look back on that. But after kind of leaving these spaces not feeling like there was room for me, I went back to architecture, really thinking through theater and film set design and building worlds and having these opportunities to really be creative. And then that's when I went to architecture school and just continued with the built environment. I'll never forget in undergrad, 1 of my professors talked about how there was such a large overlap between playwrights and people working in the theater world and doctors and lawyers because of this interest in the human condition and people and caring about people. And just what you were saying before, Vanessa, is architecture is for people.

H And I think that's that's what I love, is creating those spaces, creating those moments, working, with whether it's students, whether it's community, and talking about these issues that traditionally architecture has has forgotten about. This concept that there's only you know, you're only practicing architecture if you're drawing or building or working in CA. But there are so many different ways to practice, and we need to acknowledge that and respect that.

G Yeah. That's, that's so true. I think 1 of the things that's been interesting in just sort of listening to all your stories is the parallels overlaps, but also sort of the connections to nature and movement and dance. And I think that that really does tie back a little bit to culture. And I will say that I I went to my first sort of symposium of of, Latino like, the Latinos in architecture, I guess. It's called it was called Mundaneum, and it was focused on the Pan Americas. And it was the first time I had seen sort of an array of landscape architects, architects, planners, designers that were all Latino. And it was what was fascinating is that in that in that series, in that in that conversation on that day, all of the speakers were talking about their designs, but they all incorporated nature and policy.

G Because so much of the work that they're doing, it cannot be separated. Right? It cannot be separated. They're like, this was a part of how architecture was taught and and practiced. And it was fascinating to me. There was 1 speaker, Alvaro Rojas. And he got up and he started his presentation. And his presentation literally started with him, playing a song. And he said, you're gonna have to listen to this whole song.

G And the song was He's Costa Rican. And it just was so amazing. It was the first time I really heard music as part of a lecture. And he made a he was sort of dancing at the podium. And it was just this connection where he you know, the the translation for that song is, I I hope it rains coffee, in in the in the farm. I guess that would be the best way of explaining it. But I think for me, that was a sort of a defining moment of of the importance of, like, culture in our practice. And it was something I hadn't really had to do.

G And I think part of that and part of what he was doing was he was sort of ex he was sort of sharing a story, like, through music. And, you know, I think the concept of of of storytelling has been something that I've been really interested in my entire life. My mom's a librarian. And so I was sort of raised with a little bit of theater. Actually, I did do some theater. I did some improv classes. But I also was exposed a lot to like storytelling and narrative. And I find now how important those skills were.

G So I'm curious, for all of you. I know that story you know, we all sort of shared a little bit of our stories. But I'm curious if you can talk about sort of the role of storytelling in your practice and or sort of how some of the parallels in in sort of listening to everybody's story, if there was anything that sort of resonated with you.

H So I think, you know, I I mentioned the spaces I left. I I when I was very young, my ballet teacher told me just kind of off handedly, that I would never get a job with American Ballet Theatre. And that she kinda paused and was like, you would get a job at Dance Theatre of Harlem. And American Ballet Theatre is, like, you know, premier. And so I took it to be a comment on, you know, it's it's really hard to get into. It's it you know, you you might be good, but it is hard. But as an adult, looking looking back and realizing that she said, I would not get a job at American Ballet Theatre, but I would at Dance Theatre of Harlem, looking back, I've recognized exactly what she meant. And so there were a lot of times that I think growing up, or don't going through space, don't being in the theater world, where I might have had these kind of really I just didn't I didn't notice it at the time, Moments of just who who you are is gonna hold you back.

H But for me, it was just these spaces were not for me. So the storytelling, I think, is a very important way of of making that space for the next generation. We're not the only ones who are going through this. You're not the only 1 in this space. And being able to validate those experiences, and being able to let people know that it's okay for them to also stand up for what they need and they want. Another really great example is you talked about your name. I was born in Puerto Rico. I was born with Smith Torres on my birth certificate.

H It's my my mom's last name and my dad's last name. It's just what we do. And my brother and my sister were born in New York. So just navigating, answering all the time, like, why are you Smitouras, and why are they Oli Smith, and, like, are you guys really related? And all of it's like, yes. Just calm down. And that made me value names a lot. You know? Names are important and what you want to be called, we will respect that. Like, we cannot or should not, change your name because it's, quote, unquote, hard.

H And teaching, I've had students value that, appreciate that, be able to say, well, actually, you know, I, you know, I'm trans or I'm non binary, and this is a name I I prefer. So creating those spaces and using storytelling as a way to create those spaces for the next generation, you know, us 5 years ago.

G That's that's great. Thank you. You know, it's interesting. I I eventually wanna talk about the name thing, and that might be a whole other podcast. But I wanna sort of hear from Alicia.

F Yeah. I am just looking at all of you or listening to all of you and you guys are light year light years ahead of me. And I couldn't be happier. Right? Because I feel when you're young and navigating, like, the generation before is I feel like I've navigated with the sentiment of how do you know what you don't know. And so it's like 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And it's just I think it's incredible to see how amazing, you know, the work that you guys are doing, but the the storytelling is embracing our voice and embracing our journey and recognizing the power that there is in sharing that. Because once you find that voice and it is just empowering the how that that ripple effect that it causes, Maybe it's just 1 person or 5 people. Sometimes it's 100 people that you will reach with your story, with your experience, and culture is tied to our stories.

F I think it's really important because that's how we can relate whether it's through food, music, or or dance. I too was in theater. I think that's such a great connection with with all of us, because it it just proves that architects are curious. Right? Curious and to experience, what does this all mean and, you know, how does this make you feel? And with EP Monarch, we, design buildings and the way we explain it simply in simple terms because we can get very technical with, you know, sustainability and energy efficiency and and EUIs and all of that. But if you tell people, we'll make it, you know, look good, feel good, and perform great, you know, everybody can relate to that. Who doesn't want a space that looks good or that feels comfortable and that performs great. Right? And all in the name of, you know, being friends with nature. So with just the embracing your voice and your journey and becoming a little bit vulnerable, There's vulnerability in that and but there's power in that because somebody out there will will be able to connect with you.

F That's what I have to share on that, but I just love being here with all of you.

G Great. Thank you. And, Simone?

I Yeah. I I mean, all of that. Right? The the power of storytelling, the power of of story sharing has been a generational strength and gen it's generational power. I think as different sorts of capitalist structures are imposed on you, the the idea of storytelling for me and I shared in my story kind of the ways in which it can feel really indulgent, Right? It can feel very privileged to have the the time and capacity to be able to share story when I'm that means I'm not working. Right? That means that I'm not producing. And also this work is not about me. This work needs to be about the people that are impacted. And so why am I spending time? I was having this conversation about someone related to journaling, and it ended up becoming a conversation about self worth.

I Right? Like, why did I not think that my words were important enough for me to record them? Not to turn this into a therapy session. Right? But what are the ways in which it actually is very telling? Right? I've I've just needed to respond to structures and and the selflessness can be quite toxic in a in a something that you're taught culturally, which is to refocus, to refocus the focus, that it's about community and not about any 1 individual. And then I had to realize through a handful of, mentors telling me actually in highlighting yourself that is a part of contributing to the community in so many ways. Right? And in retelling some of the stories that I shared with Vanessa, I realized I hadn't fully processed a lot of the pain that was caused by architecture systems because I didn't have the time. Right? Like, the logistics of the documentation are really hard to get to when all of these other pieces are prioritized, and and you don't want to have a a struggle Olympics. Right, because that's not helpful for anyone. But my work, I I'm getting emails about people who are moving here or about to be evicted. Right? So the the conversations that I'm having via email related to urgency don't really allow for me to easily prioritize journaling.

I Right? It's it's, it's responding, but in that same moment, right, without without time to invest in myself and process what's happening and what continues to happen in architecture, then there's less than I can give to those emails. And so what are the what are the ways in which storytelling is actually regenerative? But I I do feel some guilt. Right? After I recorded that for you, Vanessa, I was like, oh my goodness. That was too much time. I could have been you know, whether it's like folding laundry or doing dishes or writing something and being okay with stories being generative because I do see the value in it.

H You can't pour from an empty cup and I feel like That's right. A lot of us are are

I I try.

H Constantly pouring constantly pouring.

G Health is wealth, and, I think, or whatever whatever you use to, with balance, I think is really important. And 1 of the next things we wanna start to talk about is what empowers you. I know for me, dance actually is 1 of those. I am not a professional dancer, but music and dance to me is something that has been a way for me to, I think, refocus and get exercise and sort of burn my energy, in in certain ways. And so I think that and for me, I love to teach. I love working with youth. I love working with college students. I love working with emerging professionals.

G So I think, like, the next generation really does empower me. They haven't been jaded by the profession yet. And I try to not be that person that says, oh, we don't wanna do architecture. Right? I think part of it is presenting opportunities within and beyond architecture. So I'm very much empowered by the next generation. But I wanted to see sort of what empowers you all. Let's hear from Alicia.

F You know, changes within time and my initial thought are my kids. You know? I have a a 10 and a 9 year old right now that are paying attention to everything. And it's looking at those those generations. And and I'll go back to what I was saying that our responsibility as architects in creating the environments for 7th generations ahead. Right? What does that mean? It's like how I I truly believe that we were able to do that. It's it's a loaded it's a loaded responsibility because there is policy that we have to go, you know, go past and change and and be very knowledgeable on. But that's why I think this within this group here, I mean, we have, such knowledge here. But for me, I would say it's, my kids, and I agree with you as well with the future generations, which is why, you know, I started Argentina, right, the national nonprofit.

F And just seeing the, I'm just amazed every single time I meet a new person. And so, like, proud. I don't even know if that's the word, but proud and happy. And and to see that the next generations after me are so much more informed to get to where they wanna be and not just, you know, become the architect. That's not the only option. We talk about other options, you know, where I didn't have those mentors. I didn't have anyone else to ask those questions to. So it it definitely is, you know, the people that come after you and and what you can do, what I can do for them to make that journey a little bit shorter, let them get there faster than I did.

F Vanessa?

H So I think I I agree the, you know, the students next generation working with kids, but we tend to do a lot. Right? You know, I'm I'm a vice president of AIA. I'm on the board of Cellphonoma. I'm 1 of the co chairs of Women in Architecture. So there's, all of these things that we volunteer for and and give our time and give of ourselves to this profession to change it, to improve it, to make it better for the next generation. And you can't pour from an empty cup. So I think what empowers me are is this really great group of friends, of of colleagues, conspirators, collaborators, that we've got each other's backs, and we can support each other in this collective mission and goal. So when 1 of us just needs to take a nap, the other 1 can can pick up the slack.

H So, I think finding that group of of people who you can lean on in that way is is super important.

G Now that you said that, it reminds me, of a series of group calls that I've been a part of that has been fantastic at at organizing and, I think part of having sort of a safe space or a group of of peers, and colleagues that you can turn to to bounce ideas off of, to vent, to rant, but also to get inspired. Right? Because I think, you know, all of you are really super inspiring to see what everybody's doing. This is even a. What empowers you?

I All of that. Right? Being in spaces like this, I think being reminded that we're not alone because I think often and I'm speaking for myself, but I know I'm not just speaking for myself. Being in the spaces that were not inherently, created to encourage our own evolution and promotion as people and as Latinas, I think can be incredibly toxic. So what what what's the healing? Right? What is the healing that needs to happen collective level? And some of that is creating those spaces. I think also a lot of the communities that I feel connections to are critical of flaws in structures that we are all a part of. Whether we're investing in them or participating in them, being able to understand when there is complacency versus when you are participating because you need to in order to be paid. Right? And so I think an acceptance of of those flaws and what we're going to collectively do about it is really helpful. And sometimes that means slowing down.

I Right? I've realized I I just got a new public relations manager as part of my team. And, last week, we we just had to say, what is what is regenerating look for you? I wanted to know those things, and let's remind each other to slow down. And, actually, let's leave at this time because we're gonna work on Saturday. And so what are the ways in which it's not revolutionary change, but it's revolutionary in response to the systems that are requiring us to work or or could have us work many, many, many more hours. And so not accepting those and and that's what is empowering to me. I would, you know, also offer dancing. Like, the best the best mornings I've had have been after dancing, because I I, you know, you you're just I'm just in a better mood, and it I don't need someone to dance with, but that's helpful. I also like to to feed people.

I So that's been really something that I miss since COVID. I I love creating and and feeding. You know, moving back to Sanathuni was really challenging for a lot of reasons, not just logistically, and I wasn't really understanding how to ground myself. And it wasn't until I went to a community meeting and I saw an elder, Enrique Sanchez, who was so happy to see me and I just started crying. Right? So it was like that was empowering for me that an elder was just so happy to see. And it was at a community meeting about about housing, about the housing author housing authority project master plan. That's what empowers me. It's it's all of those things, what Alicia said right at different times.

G We're gonna be wrapping up soon, but I think, I guess, what advice would you give to the future future of the profession? I'll I'll start with I think the profession's changing really fast, and I think that some of our professional organizations, and allied organizations are probably not changing fast enough. So it's gonna be interesting to see sort of what the future of of architecture is. And and I think also, like, the role of of Latinos or the Latinx or Latinx community in sort of what happens within our built environment. But I'm curious what advice would you give to the future of the profession? Specifically, also some of this next generation that is that identify as people of the global majority. Alicia?

F Sure. I like to refer to proverbs. Right? Those are very powerful too and kind of, like, put me in my place and set the tone for when I'm facing something. And I always go back to the 1, of course, has to be nature related, this Mexican proverb that says, they wanted to bury us. They didn't know we were seeds. And I think it's really important that no matter the challenge that you're facing, comments you receive, adversity that you're in, positive things will happen. And, you know, you have to also what you put into it is what you get out of it. But it's keeping that positive outset and not letting those the negative noise get to you so that it will allow for your growth because everyone everyone can grow.

F And so I leave you with that proverb. They wanted to bury us. They didn't know we were seeds.

G I love that 1. That's 1 of my favorites. Thank you. I think that's that's great. I think maybe if we all have an inspiring quote that we live by, I can give you mine at the end, depending on what everybody else says because I wonder how many of them are repeats. Vanessa?

H Oh, I wasn't I wasn't prepared with a quote, but I will I will say, would you call me a diva if I were a man by Zaha Hadid? I think don't be afraid to be a diva, whether it's a gender thing, an ethnic thing. You know, don't be afraid to to to advocate for yourself and for what you want. As Alicia said, you get you get what you put in. And for me, in the beginning of my career, I I guess I was waiting, or I expected my superiors in in the firm to to grow me and to help me in my career and in my path. And it wasn't until until I got a little older when I realized I do this. You know? I might I might have a job, but my career is on me and the choices I make. If I wanna do something, I'll I I can do it. If I wanna be on the board of something, you know, there's there's no age requirement or experience requirement to take over your local AIA chapter if you're not liking what they're doing.

H If NCARB is pissing you off, you know, just volunteer and sign up and, you know, change change the system. So instead of being upset by it, you know, don't be afraid to knock it down.

G That's great. I think, there's, an interesting, sort of conversation that has been had or that I I've had with a few people, and I'm sure others have had it. But sort of the architect as advocate versus the architect as activist and sort of the difference between the 2 and 1 is more from the outside and 1 is more sort of from the inside. And I think a lot of us are actually, working on on both on both sides of that of that conversation. So yeah. So, what about you? Advice to the future of the profession?

I To the future of the profession, is that the I'm just kidding. Individuals, I think that redefining what success indicators are. Right? So going back to Vanessa's point about mentorship, like, what are who are you picking as a mentor? And what are you learning from your mentees? I really struggle with this idea that only mentors can provide knowledge. And so I've I've learned so much from the people that I have, you know, that have been labeled as my mentees. Mentees. And I think always prioritizing people has been my north star. I haven't been disappointed with any of the decisions that I have made when I have looked back, on them being informed by what people need. And and that's been really, really helpful in defending some of the decisions that I've made.

I I also, you know, I I don't wanna be a downer, but a lot of architecture systems are incredibly broken and, need to make sure that we're finding time and space to hydrate as we as we run through their their different systems, and and we make edits. Right? Whether those are big or small, and I I often refer back to the design as protest demands and black space manifesto to to remind myself of the priorities and, again, to know that I'm not alone. I think that has been really impactful and important. Also, don't let people mispronounce your name. You have what people will call a challenging name. And so the quote that I will pick on in short, you know, short notice is I don't know if you all know Elisabeth Velasquez. She's a new Rican poet. And hers is called to all the girls with heavy names.

I Correct them when they say your name wrong, then watch their tongue stumble over its own discomfort as it tries to find its footing on a land it cannot steal. So what are the ways in which you are practicing, in a way that can't be regulated by the various systems that are are continuously trying to redefine what success is or not redefine, but just define. Right? It's it's becomes our responsibilities to to redefine. So at the end, really hydrate too.

G Thank you so much for bringing up the Designers Protest demands and also the Black Space Manifesto. We'll be sure to share those links, for people who may wanna follow-up and and look at what those are. I do have to say that the Black Space Manifesto has been something that I've been using in in my classes, and I've been introducing sort of alternative, ways of thinking. And I really like that there I think it's 10 points. But it's something that's a little bit different, but it talks about sort of moving at the speed of trust, centering lived experience, plan with, design with. Right? Be humble learners who practice deep listening. I think active listening is something that all architects could really get, use some lessons in. So, you know, we're we all identify as Latinas.

G And I think, you know, just in closing, I would I would ask, how do you think allies can better support, Latinas in the profession? I know we're at, I think, less than 1%. I'm still in the process of sort of trying to find more people in New York. I know it sounds weird. New York has a very, very large Latino population, but the architectural community is actually not as diverse as as I would I would like, where it's not representative of the city. And so I think I've always been on this search for understanding, you know, who's out there and and specifically like US based Latinos, Latinas because a lot of people are actually educated in their countries and they come to the US, for grad school. And so there's less call over sort of homegrown from the states, that I that I found that are licensed. There's probably barriers along the way. But what do you think could be, support to get more Latinos in the profession and sort of the the allied disciplines.

G Right? Because it's not just architecture.

H Well, they they could start by pronouncing our names right.

I That'd be great.

G We're we're gonna have a whole other session on names.

F Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I I say listening is is huge when because through Argentina, there's been a lot of exposure through our what our mission is, right, to raise the 1% of licensed Latina architects and the root reasons of why that is. You know? So I've had a lot of people approach me and and listen, and it's very, very much appreciated into, like, how to what is it that we can do differently? Or and I feel like there's this, a new relationships. New relationships are being built, doors are being opened, and the conversations are happening. And it's been it's been really, really great.

I I I would say listening, but also compensating us appropriately. If you want to to listen to my perspective, I want to know how like, what that rate is at this point. I'm not especially if there is a an opportunity for for you to evolve. Yes. This is consulting, and this is my perspective, and this is my experience. And I might experience, some pain, in the retelling of it. And even if I don't, even if I have been able to have the privilege of processing it on a professional level so that the emotions are not relived, I'm retelling, but I'm not reliving an experience. There was still some healing that needed to happen that I wasn't compensated for, and the fact that you are able to, have that as a part of your evolution is wonderful.

I Ask me, but I but I also will come back with you questioning where you see the value of this learning opportunity. We pay consultants for a lot of things. And I that that's also echoed in the work that I do with resident services and community members. Right? How are we at the very least feeding? Right? If you know, because then it's it's volunteer consultancy. And so I I think that allies or, coconspirators can be more intentional about finding the compensation if they really want to want to hear from us. Inviting us in is is not, is not sufficient.

G That's a that's a silent clap. But, yes, Vanessa.

H I also just checking their own power and privilege and seeing where they are gatekeepers and what they can do to open those gates. Because if they're, you know, if if they find themselves being, the hiring managers that are only hiring the same type of person, you know, listening isn't enough. You have to take action. So where is it where your where your power can actually translate to action. It's a kind of looking in the mirror self evaluation and and finding that that opportunity. You know, different people have different opportunities to open gates and remove these barriers. So self evaluate.

F Did I not say these ladies are light years ahead of me? I'm, like, listening, and then and then Simone is like, Anne? Vanessa, and? And you just made me flamenco dance. Like, I'm over here. That's great.

G I think 1 of the things, for me that's been really interesting is, sort of thinking about sponsorship versus mentorship. And the idea that we really need to or I've been trying to be intentional in making sure that I can I can sort of sponsor, somebody coming up through the field who may have had and just maybe having a hard time not not understanding how to navigate things? I think it's a little bit beyond mentorship. In business school, they they talk about sponsors a lot. In architecture, they don't. We've sort of been sort of touting this mentorship card. But I do think especially with Latinos or people who identify sort of as an other. I I hate to say that. I think it's important to be intentional in making sure that we're putting them in in in sort of the spaces and and places, where decisions are being made, so that they can be part of that conversation.

G So I think that's 1 of the things that we can do. And then the other I think this is closer going back to the the past, sort of what what the quote is or pro it's not a proverb. But I really always think about 2 2 ones. 1 is rest is resistance. But the idea is a lot of women tend to work on service a lot. And I think that it's okay to say no because your own personal sort of health and wellness is very, very important. And you can be a better self with that. And then the other is just sort of be the change you want to see.

G Right? And I think that's something that we all embody. I think all of you, really have been sort of championing, your own careers, but also serving as role models for for the next generation. So I think we're gonna see it. We're gonna see those numbers change, but we also, want to see the profession change with that, to sort of reflect, you know, how and what we need to be for, the cities we wanna live in.

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