Leading Climate Action Through Adaptation & Mitigation

B Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

A Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors.

B So So this week, we actually have a returning guest to the podcast and we're going to talk about actually, I I feel like, Ilya, we're talking about what you're more known for than we did on the last episode, but he joined us in one of our earliest episodes and we've been wanting to bring him back to dive deeper into his expertise in climate responsive design.

A Ilya Azaroff, FAIA, is an architect, geographer, and a professor at New York City College of Technology. He is an internationally recognized leader in disaster mitigation, adaptation, regenerative design, and resilient planning strategies with over 30 years of experience. He is the founding director of PlusLab Architect whose mission is to build resilient capacity and advance goals for a sustainable, regenerative future while giving underserved communities greater voice and visibility. He served as a COP 27 delegate and is leading the COP 28 delegation for the AIA this year. Currently, Elias serves as a technical expert on the New York Climate Impact Assessment. And I think there's so much more we're gonna get into, but that's just a tiny bit of all the amazing leadership work he's doing right now.

B And if you wanna find out more about PlusLab, we will drop the link to the original episode or the first episode in our show notes below. But Ilya, always a pleasure to have you here. I think we, I want to say we go back to our YF days. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We both served on Adcom together. And that's when we first kind of really got to know each other.

C Yeah. That's right. It's great to be here, guys. Good to good to see you both again and and talk a little bit about things that I'm passionate about and I hope a lot of other people are too. I I agree. I think, yeah, we get we date back all the way to to, YAF days. I'd like to think it's not that long ago, but when I start looking at the calendar, it's been a while. Yeah.

C But it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

B Yeah. So I think I feel like we did your intro justice, but, you know, we always open each episode by asking our guests to kind of do a self intro. So so what would you say for a self introduction?

C Well, I I think you guys opened really well. I would just add to that, that I'm a I'm a family adventure. Family is one of the biggest things that I have. It's it's it's my anchor, helps me do this work. And and some of the things that were mentioned, we work all over the world. When I say we, you know, you can't do this alone. But my office, we we work all around the world with communities, large and small, helping build that resilient capacity. I was excited that this last year, we opened a satellite office in Los Angeles because the time change and being able to cover more geographies has become really essential for us.

C So I guess that that's what I would add to it.

A And and speaking about the international work, I know that you travel a lot to support different communities globally, and I know that you were just in Kyrgyzstan. So tell us about some of the types of projects that you're working on through PlusLab.

C Sure. Yeah. And that was a very interesting trip. You know, we take we take a lot of projects that match our mission. And as you said, you know, we try to give greater voice and visibility to communities that really are on the front lines of climate change, and these can be really large and large projects, small projects. About 80% of our work is in we serve as as experts in advisory capacity, planning strategies for the future, and then communication, communicating through community workshops and bringing stakeholders together. But along with that, we have the other 20%, which is the true building, what traditional architects might recognize. We build a lot of resilient regenerative building projects such as resilience hubs, community driven projects, housing, and that type of work.

C And it does span all over the place. We currently have an amazing resilience hub that's going in Hawaii, working with native communities on a 5 acre regenerative site design. But, ultimately, we're putting together a project that really supports social equity, regenerative cultural practices, food stresses, while providing a near absolute protection structure that will keep those those families safe during disasters. And then on the other end, in the Kyrgyz Republic, we're doing that work through the state department. I've been doing a lot of work with the federal government for for a lot of a lot of reasons and, oh, along the lines of those missions. And, our work there, we we convened government sectors, and we fostered community driven resilience planning and trying to look at market transformation for the for the from the standpoint of equity. So those are kind of 2 ends of the spectrum along with these little tiny houses here and there. We do these houses as as examples of what we can do in the design community And and serve as kind of touchstones for people to say here's what it looks like.

C Here's what we can do for a resilient sustainable future because a lot of them don't exist. And I think that's that's that's part of the the broad range of things that we're doing.

B I think we're gonna get to the end of this episode and people are gonna be like, how do you do this work? Especially our younger crowd. So we might have to go back and revisit Pluslabs and the business model that kind of supports all of this amazing work. So you I mean, you're covering a lot of different ground and a lot of different regions. But I really feel with you, Ilya, as to one specific goal. So if you were to kinda say, like, what is the problem you are trying to solve for this work? Could you put it into 1 or 2 sentences?

C Wow. That's a tall order, but I got it. I'll give it a shot. You know, 1st and foremost, we need to bring everybody to the table. We gotta have to have all hands on deck. So, I mean, if that's an overarching goal and and what the object of that is or what our success is, we have to change the way we're doing things, not just to save the planet, but ourselves. And and I say that, you know, with this big umbrella that, yes, we can do this. But if we really boil this this down, the variety of issues that we try to get at are unique to place.

C And, ultimately, we're trying to educate others, build resilient capacity, leverage existing assets of a given place because people in place are powerful to begin with, and we have to recognize that. And we try to move people with whatever ever triggers will get them to climate action. Some of it's financial. Some of it is nostalgic. I I can't lose my home. Some of it is is just the genuine interest in environmental action. So that's kind of it. But ultimately, we're we're trying to we're trying to save the planet and ourselves at the same time.

A And appropriately, you know, when we were setting up the season, we're recording this episode to air immediately after Earth Day 2020 3, because we wanted to really draw attention to experts who are really thinking about how to address climate action in architecture in a very beyond just the surface level of sustainability in a really comprehensive and thoughtful way. And so we knew that you were someone who was thinking about it in a fresh way, and I think today's conversation, we're interested to dig a little deeper because I think you have a very specific approach that relates to community and even disasters like dealing with the before and after of climate related disasters. So maybe tell us a little bit about your vision for how architects could support their communities before disaster actually happens.

C Yeah. Yeah. There's I think there's a lot of ways, and I appreciate you you setting that this this up in and around Earth Day because we we we look at Earth Day as this incredible day during the year, and I wish it was just the opposite. The other 364 are Earth Days, and the one day is where we assess what we've done. That that would be my kind of wish. But I I think for architects to support their communities, there's one thing that, in my experience, that I recognize, and I hope that architects recognize this, that you're an expert. And not only do you bring a lot of things to the table that nobody else has, but you bring that to community groups that need vision. You also bring it to governing bodies, which are asking How do we do this? And as systems thinkers you can connect stakeholders and identify complex problems and communicate those common threads and goals like nobody else can.

C You know, we are that intermediary that can do that work. So I I think that's it. Leading communities to this idea of self actualization through engagement. I mean, that would be one of the things that if you really are looking looking for what you can do in your community, there are people ready and willing and have expertise and adding your expertise to that To actualize them into action. That's one way to do it Another one is advising policy. Well, I mean that you're the expert in the room. I remember distinctly sitting in city council hearings after hurricane sandy And you had a whole plethora of lawmakers up there not a single one of them an architect or an engineer Musing about what a sustainable resilient building looked like they didn't know and I'm raising my hand in in the gallery And of course they didn't call on me, but I put AIA and my colleagues into action because we can answer that. So they're looking for solutions.

C That's that's a piece. And then the last piece is all the work you're doing. If you can create projects that are examples of where we need to go, not just for the community, but for government, you can call them, I don't care what you call them, artifacts of success or prototypes that prove the value of what we do through design. If you have those, you can use those to really generate interest to move forward Because generally, you'll have people detracting saying, it's gonna cost more. I don't know what that looks like. Great. Here's what it costs. Here's where it exists.

C And here's how it performs. There it is. We can do it again and again and again. And those are the ways that you can start to lead your community through your action, through your support and engagement, But also just looking in the mirror and recognizing 1st and foremost. Do you have an expertise that few have?

A So in prep for this conversation, ilya was actually in my neighborhood and we had a amazing conversation to talk about, you know, what you were doing in actually in Chapel Hill, which is near where I live. Which is amazing that you're like working in my backyard, and then you're also working in Central Asia at the same time and Hawaii. So you're expanding the globe with thinking about this type of work. But we got into the technical components of implementing strategies towards climate, which included talking about mitigation and adaptation. And that those two things are actually 2 different strategies that architects can think about. So why don't we start with talking about what mitigation is?

C Sure. Well, first, your neighborhood is great, by the way. It was great to to visit you on your home turf. And working working in North Carolina is one of our our spots. It's a pleasure to be down there. But, yeah, I think I think it's really important for architects to understand this, especially when you're going to talk anybody at engagement, difference between mitigation and adaptation. But starting with mitigation, so we'll talk broadly about how the UN looks at what mitigation is, and and architects recognize this. We pick this up, many through the 2030 commitment.

C Mitigation aligns with environmental sustainability. It's the reduction of GHG emissions, greenhouse gases, and we're trying to hold globally the temperature to 1.5 degrees Celsius maximum. And for architects, that's carbon, embodied carbon, trying to keep that temperature down, long term sea level rise, and combating those things. And that's generally done through materials, carbon offsets. So think of this as long term investment. That's mitigation. But I'm gonna be very clear here. It has nothing to do with the immediate climate impacts of storms and droughts and stresses.

C It has nothing to do with it for the people who died this year. The people who are going to be affected this year has nothing to do with it. So that is the major difference. That's long term thinking. And I'm not advocating against it. Actually, I'm advocating for more of that, more of that, but we can't leave the other side of the coin out and that's adaptation.

A So talk to us more about adaptation and what are some of those strategies that architects could be thinking about.

C Sure. For adaptation, so let's take this other broad view. So we were familiar with that 2030 commitment that we've just talked about for mitigation and reducing GHG. Now there's an equal something out there for adaptation. It's called the DRR or disaster risk reduction that was put together as the 2030 commitment from the Sendai agreement. Sendai was destroyed by the great eastern earthquake. These giant tidal waves just completely destroyed an entire section of Japan, and they've spent 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars adapting to future disasters and few future conditions incorporating climate change as well as these things. So that really meets this idea of shocks and stresses brought on by climate, such as storms and drought and wildfires.

C And last year alone, we we really have to touch on this, is that the US had 18 disasters that were over $1,000,000,000 in damages last year alone. That doesn't include the ones that are in 100 of 1,000,000. This is just those are 18 of them. Right? And last year, globally, a 100,000,000 people over a 100,000,000 people were displaced by natural man made disasters. Carbon reduction does not impact those issues directly, but adaptation does. So what architects can do, it's really interesting because the world has now recognized let's go back to COP 27 globally. Global finance supported mitigation and GHG kind of reduction across the world up until last year. In fact, 98% of all financing was going towards mitigation, Meeting your, your global goals.

C A nation would say, we're going to reduce our carbon this much. 70%, we're gonna reduce it by 80%. So all financing was going towards this over the past several decades. 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars. Right? And they wanna hold the global temperature down. So we need to keep doing that. But that'll also change last year, recognizing that with the impact of the storms and a 100,000,000 people being displaced in global migration, Antonio Guterres, the president of the UN, he announced a fundamental shift in global financing, steering money to adaptation. He said, we need to very famously said, we need to stop the spiral because when a disaster hits and people are displaced, resource stress, more wars, more conflict, more issues, that has to stop.

C So this is what architects can do. We need to recognize that fundamental shift. We need to understand that our work, better buildings, better systems, more resilient measures, keep people in place before, during, and after disaster and builds equity. So we are the solution in that set that we have to do both both sides of that same coin. We have to see adaptation and mitigation as that same coin. And when we do it together properly, we can make a deposit to build equity in our communities. So equity was the SDG goal that was stated by Antonio Gutierrez. He said, if we put these two things together and you're doing the adaptation work, you will get to your SDGs.

C You will get to your mitigation because you're building equity for the long period of time. So I know that's a lot as an answer, but I'm so passionate about it because a lot of architects need to bring this into their practice. And with that, they're going to get a lot of funding opportunity.

A Ilya, can you give us an example? So we're talking about funding strategies coming from government agencies to support adaptation strategies. So what would an example look like?

C Well, okay. 1st, this this the funding streams. Let's just recognize 2 things that have happened in the US. Since the Biden administration took place, they ordered all 26 or 28 federal agencies to put together climate adaptation plans. Those plans have budgets and goals and targets for adapting all facilities across HHS, housing and urban development. Every agency that's out there now has a plan in place. So the largest contract or client to everybody in the US happens to be the federal government. Federal government has plans ready to go.

C Pick up those plans. If you work in any of those sectors, whatever it may be, there is funding available and it directs you direct to to it. And it goes all the way down to your state and your local municipality of what you need to do and reference that. In further support, justice 40 came forward, which is part of of the the financial package that came out of the federal government Justice 40 has like 350 plus programs That really hit esg all across the board. And if you distill that down, I've identified maybe a 160 of those programs that really hit architects. So the money is there. So that's that's how you get at the money. So that's the first part of your question.

C I wanna make sure that people understand. The money is sitting there. You just have to figure out a way to translate and partner with, whether it's a 3 p partnership, and get to the money to spend it for your communities, for all the projects that they've been crying for for decades. It's available. K? So how how you do that is, 1, form those partnerships to understand what either the climate action plan of your community is or your hazard mitigation plan of your community is. Those are published. They're free. You should be able to find them and, start to form what those projects might look like.

C Most likely, there are projects that are ready by city government that will be going out for bid or will need some fostering of how to form it into a competitive bid process. So you could play either side of that. As an architect, I've been on the side where communities need to put the RFPs out. I'm the advisor that helps understand what those circumstances are necessary for architects to go after the money, and it hits the federal triggers of what adaptation, what mitigation look like and making sure that that money would absolutely support these issues. So you can play in either of those roles or capacities to get the work moving. So I'll give you an example. We're working with a lot of small and medium sized towns, particularly in South Florida. Most cities don't have budget line item to have a chief resilience officer or a chief sustainability officer.

C So we've offered our services to these small and intermediate towns on a contract basis to serve in that role and capacity. So for one of our cities we're working with, the City of Oakland Park in South Florida, We have helped them do their all hazard analysis for the entire city, and that's brought in a lot of engineers to do that work. Once we understand what their current issues are for climate and hazards, along with projecting forward 60, 70, 80 years, we've been able to help them put together a series of plans as well as projects that, are supported by granting and funding to help their water and flooding issues, for 1. So that's where we've been able to to leverage those pieces. Now on the project side, let's talk about the one in in Hawaii, for example. So for the project in Hawaii, you know, the the building is the last piece of that puzzle. But if you think about it, we're restoring an entire responding to entire watershed. It's called, Ahupua'a in in native Hawaiian.

C And it's the upland area that sheds down into the lower zones where settlement is and where you leverage water into growing into everything that you need as a community. And then it usually finishes at the seaside with a fish farm. So what we're doing is recognizing that that indigenous wisdom is something we're leveraging on the site. We're harvesting the water, turning the 5 acres into a place that we're reintroducing native plants, species, restoring eco habitats, and then doing plantings of everything from native native species of food as well as breadfruit trees. The breadfruit trees are being propagated, and then the seedlings are going to be planted in everybody who's in the community in their own yards. A breadfruit plant is considered the the super fruit that will save the Pacific region because one tree can produce 100 and 100 of pounds of breadfruit, and it's incredible. So that's part of what we're doing. The other piece that we're doing is is since we're doing this, project based on cultural regeneration, we're using native practices to understand how the architecture of plates and that uniqueness is incorporated into the design along with the modern techniques of of design and construction.

C And in so exploring that, the, kupuna, who are the elders of the community, have come forward to offer their their great expertise. 1 in particular is a master carver for all of Polynesia, and he's going to open a school for carving inside our facility or next to it to teach the next generation the value of how you harvest trees, how are you custodial over the forest lands, how do you turn that into amazing pieces of cultural artifacts that will adorn this building? So he's volunteered to help train the local workforce in part of our work. So that's kind of the the direction that this is going. And then the building itself is a high performance FEMA 361 near absolute protection shelter that will take a community of 1500 people, put them inside and weather any storm up and out of the tsunami zone, category 5 hurricanes, no problem. It's islandable, produces its own energy, and can withstand these shocks and stresses and will serve as a community anchor to jump start the community afterwards. So that's a piece of this project of how we've translated all of the community needs and desires into a sustainable, resilient, and regenerative place that happens to have a building on it. Right? So that's what I want people to think about. Your work doesn't stop at the edge of the building.

C It is a response to the the flow of all those configurations of people, culture, place, ecologies, and how can you improve that and regenerate forward. Hope that helps.

A No. I think that's a really helpful example to kind of identify what you're talking about. Because basically, I think in our conversation, what you pointed out to me was that gap between the higher aspiration that we all have for what architecture can do and then actually getting into the communities, connecting the dots between the funding and the community so that those types of design solutions can come into realization. And so you have communicated to me that you have found a role for yourself in being a translator of those complex government dynamics at play to help communities actually access the funding to support designing for their local community

C That's exactly right. And I think every architect could could do the same thing. You know, who who better to translate these great community ideas? You have to take the the attitude that you're always a guest. That's 1. That's humility. 2, that people in their own location are already powerful people. They're already powerful. They're already ready to do the work.

C They already know the issues at play. And your role as the intermediary is to translate their ideas and needs into substantive design that can be read by governing officials or funding bodies to say, oh, that's what it looks like. That's what this potentially could be. And it meets all of these challenges the community has already identified, so you have community buy in. And when government sees that and funding sees that, they release the money because the money's there. Trust me. The money is there. It's more than there at this very at this current time.

C So that's the intermediary role that you and I had discussed, and I think it's a very powerful thing to recognize that that's our our power to do these things.

A So you made the point that mitigation is

B more of

A a long term strategy and adaptation is more of a short term strategy. Can you talk to me about the specifics of how adaptation is more short term? And I'd also love to hear more about, you know, the regenerative design piece.

C Sure. Sure. Yeah. So for the adaptation side, when you're doing a study, you need to recognize what the current shocks and stresses for that place, that building, that neighborhood may be. Whether it's storms, whether it's, frequency of of drought, extreme heat, all of those things in that data. And you also need to project forward because what you design today has a life cycle. If you're building you can call life cycle. A lot of people aren't using life cycle anymore.

C But is your building gonna be there for the next 100 years? Yeah. Minimum. So you need to project forward. So when I do a resilient measure and say that the storms that hit this area have a certain capacity or a wave action or wind wind factor, I can meet those or I can project forward and meet what's going to be there. So even though I say it's short term, I need to stop the damage that's happening this year, next year, every year by putting together what those green infrastructure, better buildings, better windows, how it's located, how it takes the shocks and stresses of flying debris. And I build that into the design. I build an islandable power. I build in all those things that the mission critical functions of the facility continuously operate before, during, after the disaster.

C Now that is that sort of immediacy is that I know what's going to happen to this building based on science, and I need to project it forward a certain degree and build to that or plan to continuously upgrade through time if it's a retrofitability. So that's what I mean by the immediacy of that adaptation because those are the things that we can we can get at right away. And some of that's carbon intensive, so we have to balance that with what sustainable materials we're using and the longevity of the building. The other part you asked about is regenerative strategies. So regenerative design takes it one step further. And in in my work and in our work in the office, we have quickly recognized that sustainability and resilience are not enough. And I know your your your listeners are wait. Wait.

C Wait. Wait. You've been talking about resilience and sustainability all this time, and then you're telling me it's not enough? Yeah. Yeah. It's not enough. It's not enough if we recognize what's going on. Repairing the earth through every action that we take is regenerative. Building carrying capacity of a place through our efforts and design is regenerative.

C So what I mean by that, sustainability leaves enough resources on the table for the next generation. That's by its definition. Right? But I I'm telling you that's false, and it's unattainable notion. How dare you say that? No. This is the truth. We've been in an extracted economy since the mid 19 sixties all around the world. We draw more resources that the earth can provide given our habits and population growth. So we need to change our thinking Instead of leaving enough behind, we need to restore ecological systems, foster new ones and increase capacity to meet those future needs.

C That's regenerative. And it's happening in places. Singapore has by code as a city that you must do regenerative design. You must increase the carrying capacity of your site as if there was no building there. And after your building has to have 4 times the amount of carrying capacity than it had to begin with. So it can be done. We're seeing it being done, but we have to go that direction. That's what I mean by sustainability and resilience are not enough.

C That regenerative design, every action we take as to repair the earth and and increase our ability to provide abundance rather than becoming so skinny that we're sharing out the last pieces. We have to increase abundance.

B I think first of all, it's exciting that the aia has a delegation that they send to cop 27 and cop 28. And before we dive into kind of what the AIA's role in that, why don't we take a step back and why don't you tell us what happens at COP 20 like, what happens at these events and why it's so important that we do have a voice there and how we are contributing to that event?

C Sure. Sure. I mean, I'll do my best. COP 27 was my first joyous moment to be part of that that action. Although I've participated in a lot of UN events that always lead up to COP, this is the first instance. And and what happens at COP is conference of parties. And then this that was the 27th meeting of the world talking about how we address the issues of climate change. And for the most part up until COP 27, it's all been about reducing GHG emissions and holding temperatures down.

C And COP 27 was the switch to really look at the effects of disasters on communities and how we change that as part of what we're doing. And what's important is is that AIA is this will be our 3rd COP. We we went to COP 26 and now 27, and we're planning on 28. Having the voice of the profession there, it you know, there were audible gasps when we introduced that we're representing the American Institute of Architects. We have 96,000 members, and we're in 100 countries. Most of the NGOs there will just stop for a second and go, oh my gosh. The architects are in the room. Some of them were saying.

C So finally, you're in the room. Really large a and e firms go to this. Some of the biggest ones in the world, and they recognize that this is where we all need to be because it is the most essential work of our time. But it's also where all of the funding and finance to do this work at a state level at a city level is is is being shown and available. And here's one important thing. The landscape architects, the international body of landscape architects, they have, been able to sit into these conversations and right into global financing that if you're doing coastal mitigation, it states clearly that you must use a landscape architect for green infrastructure. It clearly says that, that you're using a licensed professional. So that to me from the advocacy side is if you have 100 of 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars, and I'm not kidding about the 100 of 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars, that are being spent on better communities, We need to similarly take action with our colleagues from the landscape architects and engineers to make sure not only the language is right, the design professionals are making the decisions, the systems thinkers are bringing the value of design that really address these issues, and that we're part of that conversation, shape that future in the most profound way.

C So at these events, it's it's incredible. They're and and I do know that there's a lot of folks out there. It's been a lot of talk, and we see the temperatures continue to rise. I'm one of the people that say that. But we have to continue to meet to make progress. We have to evaluate what we've done globally, and we have to make commitments and take action. So the other thing from COP 27, the other big change was is that instead of reporting, again, Gutierrez said we need to see instances of action. And what does that mean? As I said before in the interview, if you have projects that really address these issues, that's action.

C We can show as architects the action that we are taking collectively all across the world with our projects, and it's tangible. That is pretty incredible. So I think there's a natural role for us, but I I I like that we you know, you asked me to step back a little because it really is this entire construct that I've discussed.

B So you you talked a little bit about how the landscape architects, you know, got it written and that they need a professional a licensed professional to support that. You know, what role does code play in really pushing the work that you're doing forward? Especially since we consider that code is kind of like a minimum standard that we should all be reaching. And I feel like what we need to be doing right now is so much further beyond code. Is code change, in a way, enough? And how do we continue to push that?

C Yeah. Wow.

B Great. That work from a the a policy side.

C Yeah. Great question. Yeah. You're you're hitting on the head, Evelyn. You know, code is that minimum standard. So advocating, you know, if you've got listeners in all across the country and beyond. So advocating for the most up to date code in your just your jurisdiction, let's be clear, that raises the floor for everybody. So let's raise the floor.

C So the minimum standard is ubiquitous that that here's where we're at. So I think that's really good that we all need to advocate for. All code advancement through the ICC, International Code Council, is based on past disasters, and a lot of folks don't know that. But, after a disaster, they send out experts, architects, and engineers to examine forensically why things failed. And if it's a building technique, they change the building technique and requirements in our codes. So codes keep getting better as a minimum, and resilience advances at least to that degree. However, I think you're right. What what I'm interested in is what's happening now is the performance based codes.

C You know, all across the the world, there there's several countries that are advancing performance based codes in about 20 states in the US. And this is meeting stringent energy requirements and beyond based on what your state has has, signed on to or pledged to for your GHG emissions, for your energy consumption, for a transition to maybe a sustainable grid, all of that's now being supported in this performance code elements that are coming forward. And, so in New York state, for example, we have commitments for 2030 and 2040 that we have to bring our GHG emissions down and energy down. We can have no you know, we have to have all this transformation. So that's what's really great about codes right now, and we should all be kind of advocating for performance based. But this is a really sticky topic. And the reason is everyone's asking, so now that we put the goals out there and we've changed the code to a performance based code, how do we get there? How do we get this across the industry and government? That's the real sticky part because to meet those minimum requirements by 2030, 2040, architects, we have to raise our game. We have to understand what that means for our buildings.

C We also have to understand what code enforcement and examination looks like at the at the institutional level. And there's penalties tied to this, at least in my state, if you don't meet these requirements, which are not small. So you have to have a new workforce that evaluates success or evaluates failure. And we've been asked by state and local government to help understand how to educate, but also train people to do all of those things. So entire new workforce is coming up to bring this transformation forward through performance based codes. So, yeah, I think codes also sweep up the dragging feet of people who can't make the leap or transform. It's like, okay. Well, here's the minimum, so we're calling you forward.

C Right? And that's not a bad thing. It's just a reality.

B I used to want to be this, like, sustainable expert, and then I realized that it's a lot to follow. Right? You have all of these changes on the code side. You have all of these new technologies coming on to support initiatives. We have a look back at what we've done historically, right, to do more passive to have more passive sustainable techniques.

C Yeah.

B If I do wanna dive deeper into this, where, like, where, where are the resources? Where are the best places to go to begin looking for these things? So I can look at I mean, it's one thing to do that to understand where to go for funding. It's another thing to understand where to go for, like, what is the latest in Information. And information to be included in the project itself.

C Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we're we're thankfully in a position that a lot of our work, we we we don't look purely at the checkbox of requirements. We look at what climate climate impacts and what that dictates for our clients, and then we design to that very high standard, and it's always beyond code. Always. And it's always beyond what most people are thinking. If our goal is a regenerative design, and we tell our clients upfront that we're looking at a passive design, trying to go beyond net zero, producing more energy than it than it's worth and then what's what's available to it and trying to restore ecosystem around it, you're going to go well beyond any performance based code there. And so we rely on the science and the the, information that we gather through a lot of places.

C There's some really great climate climate sites out there, some put forward by FEMA that is and I I can give you it's the the it's the resilience index. And if you look at the resilience index, it's an interactive map that covers the entire United States. You can zero down to a single property and understand all of your hazards and project forward. The state of New York has a site just for New York as well. And we start with that looking at what the shocks and stresses are, and we look at what they are in the future, and we begin to design for that 100 year timeline in the future. Once we start to look at that, that is where we realize that that code doesn't I I won't say it doesn't matter, but it has little influence on what we're doing because we're designing so far beyond what the minimum standard is. That there's the floor for code, and we know what the reality is for the next 4 or 5 generations. We have to design to that standard.

C And like I said, we're fortunate that we're in a good position that we can do that and that clients come to us and cities come to us and ask us to do that. And I realized that a lot of a lot of your listeners aren't in that position. So first thing is first is to communicate what that is. 1, it's your ethical responsibility. If you know ethically that there is an issue of health, safety, and welfare of your client today and in the the future, you need to communicate that. And in so communicating that, you'll probably open doors for moving you towards a beyond Code solution once your clients understand what that is. That's been very helpful to us. And then the other lever is is finding the financing to do it.

C So that's the other piece that I would look at. For your own training, if I take your question a different direction, Evelyn, You know, there's a lot of great training out there, especially, you know, AIU has great training for resilience. If you want to understand what resilience is, business case all the way through building technique, it's there. FEMA has a lot of courses. If you're working on coastal construction, they run 2 or 3 times a year. Coastal construction handbook, how to build for resilient coastal construction for storms and high wind and everything. And similarly, there are courses like this all along the way, so you can keep upping your game. From the regenerative side, living building challenge, living community challenge, we use all the time as our baseline, and there are many others out there.

C And I'm not on any of those boards of directors. I'm on the AI board of directors, but I'm very passionate about how you get this this information and how you start to up your game or your office's game.

A You know, I think this raises such an important point about where we're at in the inflection of how our industry is changing. And I just want to point it out, you know, I've been really active with code leaders for quite a while. Some of my mentors were at COP 26, which was the first, participation by the AIA. And they've been leading they were on just last week in an episode also about climate. They're leading code to the highest level and beyond in California. And so I I guess I just wanna make the point that I think the industry is trying to move beyond the baseline, and there are architects who are doing that in their practices in the way that they think about their design work. It's it's just completely immersed in how they approach design from the start. And I think then we have the other part of the spectrum where there is either architects doing it kinda at the baseline or even are not even doing it at all.

A My point in trying to bring these climate episodes into our show is to make the point that to any architects out there listening, we are heading in a new direction in this conversation that is so far forward from where we've been that education is critical and important to increasing your design quality. And also, it's a huge opportunity if you think about it to elevate the way that we're designing in a really forward looking way. And so I hope that by listening to Ilya today that kind of been inspired to see it as a design opportunity in in the way that you're thinking about design and a education opportunity to think about how you're researching unique ways in your practice to elevate green design.

C That's a great way to say that. Yeah. I hope people understand that their agency in this is extraordinary, and we are at an inflection point. I the we are at the point where people are asking how. They're not asking why anymore. People know why that we have to do this work. It's the how, and every listener that you have knows how. You fundamentally know how.

C And if you can answer that question those folks asking it, whether it's government, whether it's community, whoever it may be, you're gonna be really successful. And we need you to be, quite honestly, all of you.

A Do you have any recommendations for folks that find themselves within firms where they're not in a leadership position, but they care deeply about sustainability and they wanna elevate this, but they're maybe not in the driver's seat of deciding how it gets implemented on projects?

C That's a good question. I don't know any firms like that, but I'm sure there's a lot of them out there that that you've got a lot of folks that that are really into this and maybe their firm isn't. So I think if it's a firm business case, I I think the show me the money where it goes, if I've I'll send along some links. And if you really look at global financing to federal financing to all of those things, I think firms, if they take a look at that, it's why aren't we doing this? Why don't we have why don't we have someone really working on this? And if you are a young professional, you can volunteer to suss that out for the firm. And once you make the business case, my gosh, you have work for the rest of your life. And it's it's an incredible amount of work. The other thing is is community action plans. You know, every city in the United States is supposed to have a hazard mitigation plan.

C If you just pick up a copy of that online, what have you, you can start to really understand what that community needs to do in the immediate term and cycle, and does our work do any of that, large and small? And, again, it goes back to the the funding that's there because that city is going to have funding that's lining up to those things. So I think I I would take it from the from the business case. And then from the other side of it, if you have lunch and learns, now be subversive. Get the right lunch and learns. Get the right learns. It's great to have doors and windows. Those are great. If they are coming, tell them to tell us how those are the most resilient, net zero, incredible doors and windows that, we can have, or you're bringing in somebody that is about market transformation for the studio and why you need to do this stuff.

C So those are the the couple couple of things. You can even change habits in in the office. What are the habits of the office that leads to a truer, sustainable, resilient, way of practice? Are you in the conversations that people are having a work from home? That is a resilient way of working. If something happens to the office location, office still works. We did the same thing in Hurricane Sandy. So many offices were inundated. We started the office share program. People who are displaced actually went and worked at other people's offices.

C They gave them computers so they can continue their work. So how do you how do you think about those things for your office in terms of practice? But I think the business case and and understanding that passion should bring every firm owner to the table.

B And what I will say about what I'm discovering in my research about the younger generations that are now coming into the workforce is from an employer perspective, if you are doing this type of work, it's actually more attractive to those younger generations. They're really wanting to work for firms that are socially driven in this way. I feel like sometimes the lack to call to movement is just because there is so much to do. So what would be your next or to anyone who's who's like, okay. Yes. I've listened I listened to this episode. I'm excited. What what would be your next recommendation to them kind of for where where they should start and and get moving on all of this and how to keep that excitement going.

C Yeah. Well, you know, I I I will I I say this to to just about everybody I run into is that if you're not working on this, you actually already are working on it. You have no choice because we have 7 years to turn this around. I'm not joking about the 7 years. The IPCC report clearly states what we have to get to in 7 years. So if you're a young professional out there, you are in the hottest market, literally and figuratively. It is hot out there, and you have the ability to change the paradigm of what we do in the world and how we do it. And every project that you do, large and small, I mean, the smallest project that you're working on changes the formula for how the world is responding to the built environment.

C Every part of a better building changes the chemistry of the earth. It changes where we're going. So I would start with the whatever's on your board today, on on your computer screen today, are you asking questions of how is this sustainable? How does this build a resilient, sustainable future? If you can answer that question, you'll begin to grow that into everything that you're doing. So I I think that's that's kind of my my call to action is that everything is significant. We've done small houses. We've done large projects. And every one of those, we consider significant and impactful to the people that use it and to the planet on the whole.

B Great. And then so my last takeaway is is your firm hiring? Because I feel like people are gonna be listening to this and saying, like, how do I know when PlusLab is hiring if I want to join your team?

C Yeah. Send it in anytime. We are always looking looking for folks, and I think there's some good opportunities coming up, like, very shortly, especially if you're on the West Coast. But just about anywhere, you know, down in Florida, Caribbean, those kind of places. So yeah. Yeah. If you're interested, send it in. And do you have to live where the office is? Absolutely not.

C We work remote and live, so it's all good.

A Awesome. Well, Ilya, it's been a pleasure. I always enjoy our conversations with you because I feel like I learned so much and there's so much overlap in how we think about wanting to design businesses are really thoughtful and mission driven. So glad to have you back. Thanks for your time today.

C That was a pleasure. It was good to see you both. And, yeah, this was a lot of fun. Always good to see

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