Designing for Inclusion with Olivia Asuncion

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

A Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors.

B So I'm gonna start this interview by saying I'm truly disappointed in myself for not having taken the time to get to know this next individual more, especially since we're so close together here in Northern California. Olivia Ascension's personality and energy is unparalleled and equally inviting. She welcomes everyone with open arms and has become a strong, outspoken advocate in her own right for individuals with disabilities. A Fulbright Scholar, Olivia was recently appointed by president Biden to serve as a member of the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance access board. She strongly believes that our design decisions as architects have the potential to create physical symbols that tear down social barriers and inequities.

A This is an exciting episode for me. We had, like, the briefest moment to hang out in San Francisco through the YAF and had a great conversation. So I know we're gonna have a lot to talk about today and I'm looking forward to getting to know you better, Olivia. So welcome to the show, Olivia. Why don't we kick things off by having you just tell our audience a little bit about yourself?

C Yeah. Hi, everyone. Before anything else, I do want to take this opportunity to thank you, Evelyn and Janine, for inviting me to be on your show. I'm really excited to be here. With that said, my name is Olivia Asuncion. My pronouns are she, her, and I'm an architect who lives and works here in Oakland, California. More than that, I am also a disabled Filipina who was born and spent a good chunk of my formative years in a small provincial town in Cavite. It has been a wild ride since then and since I moved to the states when I was 11.

C But kind of amidst that chaos, I am incredibly grateful to have been given the opportunity and platform to do what I'm most passionate about, which is to learn, practice, and to advocate for accessibility and universal design in the built environment.

B Now because we are an audio platform, I was hoping that you can tell our audience a little bit more about your own disability and the perspective that you bring to the conversation.

C Yeah. Of course. So I was born with a condition called osteogenesis imperfecta or o I for short. And without going through all the medical details, one of the most common and prominent characteristics of this condition is that we have brittle bones. Many of the people with OI are also shorter in stature and with a very particular body type and face shape and all of that. But, all in all, as a result of that, many people with OI, including myself, use some form of mobility device. In my case, I use a power wheelchair. Being born in the Philippines and having to experience being disabled there was quite an eye opening moment moving here to the states where accessibility is a human right.

C So you could say that it was very early on in life that I learned how powerful the design of spaces are when it comes to independence and inclusion. So it definitely, like, all of that experience made an impact on how I chose what would be my future career as an architect.

A Yeah. I'm sure that makes you really conscious about how you design space and how you think about accessibility and creating opportunities for everyone in the design and layout of buildings and spaces.

C Yeah. I think I have cultivated the the experiences and skills necessary to have this unique perspective in architecture.

B So, Olivia, since we're more of a business operations type of podcast, and obviously there's there's a lot of struggles along the bumps to licensure for any individual. You know, where there are additional barriers or accommodations that needed to be made for you as you pursued licensure and education in the in the profession?

C Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think throughout all the stages of, you know, me becoming an architect, there was some sort of barrier or struggle, you know, that I had to face, and, you know, we can start talking about architecture school, for instance. And we all know what that culture is like. It's competitive, and you feel this constant need to prove yourself. Both of the schools that I went to, so I went to UC Berkeley and University of Oregon, on paper, they're very supportive in providing accommodations when I asked for them. And that might include, you know, having a lower studio desk or making sure that my classrooms were accessible. Because a lot of the times, these older campus buildings are are not the most accessible, so have having to make sure of that.

C But I think when you see your fellow classmates and peers, you know, pull all nighters and build all these really great and intricate physical models, I, despite disability, feel the need to do the same. So even when my professors would reduce requirements or extend deadlines, there's kind of the still a voice in my head that goes, like, can I really? You know? Will will the jurors of my final review think differently of me because I have less things as everyone else? And will my peers resent me for doing less work than, you know, than they're doing? And I I was dealing with ableism in almost every other aspect in my life where I was treated like an other, and I didn't wanna give the people at my school and what would be my future profession, the ammo to be ableist also. So because of that, I think I pushed my physical limitations during those years, and it was really quite unhealthy for me, and it's quite unhealthy for a lot of people. But given also my physical limitations, it was definitely unhealthy for me. And I think in the back of my mind, I knew that even though I'm not being required to do the same level of work, it would be a disservice to my future career if I wasn't thought of as as smart or as strong or as hardworking as everyone else. I knew that it was that I was at a disadvantage in the workforce being disabled and a person of color and a woman. So I felt like I had no choice, but to try and be extraordinary. You know? And, ultimately, that was exactly how my professional career started.

C You know, I I really hurried up in terms of getting my license because, you know, I needed to be a licensed architect sooner so that I can be more, I guess, retainable at work or whatever it is, you know. In working in the design and construction world, I was in this constant battle to prove myself as capable and knowledgeable. I remember this one time at a pre construction meeting. Beforehand, the general contractor was going around introducing himself to everyone. And when I introduced myself, you know, this petite woman in a wheelchair with this high pitched voice as a project architect, you know, his eyes widened, and he let out a very surprise, like, oh, really? And that was the thing that happened a lot, and it's exhausting. You know? Not to mention the physical and logistical struggles of not being able to go to construction sites or the gymnastics of figuring out how to go to in person meetings and the frustration of others in the field not finding value in accessibility. And I think what helped me during all those years was that I worked at companies that saw and understood those struggles and wholeheartedly supported my needs. So I've been lucky to have that when I transitioned from going to school to start working as a professional.

A So you're a project architect at Quatroky Kwok Architects, and you work on k 12 and public spaces that basically serve communities. Right? How have you found your voice as a designer in the field?

C Yeah. So kth row facilities is a project type that is near and dear to me, especially in the context of accessibility and inclusive design. When I did my recent Fulbright project, I studied the accessibility of elementary schools in the Philippines, so I have had the special interest in the design of learning spaces. I've always believed that how we design schools opens up this opportunity, not just for nurturing academic intelligence, but emotional and social intelligence as well. By prioritizing accessibility and inclusivity in these spaces, we're increasing the visibility of all types of people. And I think that's really crucial in making sure that our young people, our young learners become exposed to that type of diversity, thus making them more empathetic to those who are different from them. So that's something that, you know, I'm advocating for within the firm because I think it's this, you know, really great cyclical process of increasing diversity and, visibility through through designing for accessibility. And in turn, the firm advocates for it kind of on this greater design and construction sphere.

B Can you tell us a little bit more about your year as a Fulbright and also kind of QKA being a place that let you go away for a year, right, and then come back?

C Yeah. I think that was one of the greatest things that QKA has gifted me. When I was interviewing for this position, that was something that I was very candid and transparent about. I was interviewing maybe a year before I was to go on my Fulbright trip, and I said, hey. You I I am doing this thing. This is a thing that I have dreamed of doing for a while. It's really important to me. I understand if this is something that you don't wanna deal with because, basically, I'll be coming in as a new employee then heading out.

C At that point, it was COVID. COVID was still on the rise, so I wasn't sure when I was leaving. So that gave, like, another layer of uncertainty with the whole hiring process, because I could be leaving in 3 months or I could be leaving in 3 years. I don't know. And I don't know if that's something that you want to deal with as a firm. And principal, Aaron Jobson, who was interviewing me and having this conversation with me said, well, why not? You know, this is something that is going to be really good for you, but it this is also kind of an honor and advantage to have you in our in our firm to have a Fulbright Scholar in our in our staff. So it's not a big deal. Go do your thing.

C And that was very indicative of what kind of firm I was getting myself into, and it was going to be a supportive one. So I left for Fulbright in August of 2022 and came back to May of 2023, and that was such an incredibly this is pretty cliche, but it's an incredibly life changing experience. I learned so much. It was undoubtedly one of the hardest things that I've done in my life. And I I think I've gotten used to, like, a level of independence and accessibility here in the states that it was kind of a culture shock going there and having all of that essentially be stripped away. So on an emotional spiritual level, it was very difficult and really frustrating because I went from being able to take the BART to go to San Francisco to a place where I had to rent a car to go across the street because it's an, you know, a 10 lane highway where the only way to cross is an overhead bridge, like pedestrian bridge that had no elevators. So navigating through that was difficult, but the research itself and being able to see the progress that there has that there have been in in the schools there and seeing other children with disabilities going to school, that's what made the whole experience worth it. And there's still a lot of work to do, but being there gave me the motivation and the encouragement to go back and do more and help out, especially the schools that are really motivated to make the changes in their schools to be more accessible, but just don't have the resources or the knowledge to do so.

C So that's a goal for sure for the future.

B Now you had your mom with you, right, on in the Philippines? Can you tell us a little bit more about your support network and the individuals in the community that have been helping you throughout your journey too?

C Yeah. I I have what I consider the best support system there is. I mean, from just my family to, you know, my closest friends, they all understand the barriers that I face. So that's that's one aspect of that. But they also understand that what I'm doing in the professional realm is really important to me, and I'm really passionate about it. And I know that they would do however they can to support those goals and those dreams. You know? My mom left the states for 9 months to, you know, be with me to go on this Fulbright journey. And, you know, while it's hard to understand why I would, you know, stop working and earning money to go to this Fulbright experience where they basically give you pennies for for compensation, but she was still there to to support and make sure that I was okay and that I was thriving while I was there doing the work that I love doing.

A Coming back into your current role, how did the lessons learned through the Fulbright program inform what you're doing now as an architect? How has it changed what you're doing?

C Given that Fulbright was it was an eye opening experience in a sense that I was discovering inequities in the built environment that I had never seen before because they did not. I was not thinking about it while here designing spaces in the in the states. You know, one example of this is one of the biggest complaints, I guess, that I received while I was visiting a lot of the schools in the Philippines is, you know, windows windows are great. They're they let in a lot of lights and, you know, connection to nature. But when you put it in a space where there are students with behavioral or intellectual disabilities, it becomes such a major source of distraction. And that's something that I never thought of, being an architect in the states because we have all been, you know, taught that as much glazing as possible is important because natural light and natural ventilation and all of that. And, you know, that that's something that I think about now when I'm designing schools here in the states. Like, how do I balance still providing that connection to, you know, natural resources within a classroom with also providing a good learning environment for those who may be more easily distracted by what's going on on the outside.

C And these are the design challenges that I, I guess, thrive on having. These are the types of challenges that I love discussing with my coworkers. Just the way that I think about spaces now has definitely shifted, and I've become more cognizant and more empathetic in terms of designing for, you know, the people who are going to be using the spaces.

A Yeah. I guess you've had this experiential relationship with architecture your entire life where you see the world in a different way than others do. So it's almost like the I Spy puzzle where you can look at a room and and see something that others don't. And I think that it's really amazing to hear about that even in the United States where our policies around accessibility have been delayed, we take for granted that we have so much in having policies at all compared to other countries in the world. And so now you're even seeing other challenges that you didn't see before. So I think what I'm hearing in this conversation is there's always new ways to look at spaces and experiences that challenge what we assume to be true about a given design or decision on design.

C Yeah. I would agree with that. I think, like you said, I've I've had that, you know, kind of transition and experience from being in the Philippines when I was younger and kinda understanding Well, actually, at that point, I didn't understand what accessibility was because I think when I was growing up in the Philippines and I needed something, my parents had to provide it for me. You know, if I went to school, my parents had to directly ask for or build the ramps. You know? If I needed a shorter desk, that was on my parents because there were, at that point, no, like, laws that would require, you know, these schools or these places to provide those accommodations. And then switching to being in the states where it was clearly defined law to have the curb ramps, to have the curb cuts, or to have the ramps, and to have, you know, things being within reach range. And it was a stark contrast. And it turned on this light bulb in this young 11 year goal year old girl's, you know, brain of, like, woah.

C This affected very positively the way that I navigate through the world now that I have all of these accessibility and accommodations in place. And now that I'm working as an architect and kinda understanding a little bit better, like, the technicalities of things, and also seeing more of the world and more of the country and all that stuff. It is also while I understand and, like, appreciate the existence of accessibility, you know, laws and and all of that, I also understand we have a long way to go for even the states to be fully inclusive in the built environment. There's still a lot of struggles that I face in the built environment as a person with a mobility disability. And, you know, I don't have the experiences of people with other types of disabilities, but I imagine that it's the same. Yeah. We we have a lot more work to do.

A I wanna talk about the advocacy work you're doing because all of this to me is it's culminated in you're you're on so many different advocacy efforts right now from AIA to the access board. In the process of trying to build awareness and break down barriers for others to see what might be invisible to them in this conversation, what are some of those pieces that you're advocating for?

C So I think the response to this is long and complex. But I do wanna touch on kinda how we view universal design and accessibility. Right? So from what I have often witnessed and experienced, the most effective way that we have marketed universal design is when we enthusiastically emphasize that design elements and solutions that are intended to include disabled people are, quote, unquote, beneficial to nondisabled people too. Right? And it's absolutely true. It's why the tagline of universal design is accessibility for all. Because through those principles, we are designing things with the intent for them to be used by all. As an example, we have all heard and probably repeated the story of, how curb cuts were developed and how awesome they are because they help people in wheelchairs and parents with strollers and people on skateboards and travelers with luggages, etcetera, etcetera. But I think one of the failures in our profession is that often only find value in these creative solutions if we think that it also benefits the non disabled.

C The curb cutting, for instance, became more acceptable and worthy of investment when we factor in the fact that it helps everyone else. Right? And on the flip side, if we consider accessibility as something that will only help or benefit a disabled person, that's when we pull out the building code, and that's when we start applying the minimums and the maximums, you know, down to a t. Because following the code is all that we need to do for them. Right? You know, this isn't for me, so I don't really care what it looks like or how it functions. And that's a dangerous mindset because what most of us don't realize is that, first of all, disability does not discriminate. You know, it is the one marginalized community that anyone can join at any point in their lives regardless of race, ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, you know, etcetera, etcetera. So to undervalue accessibility is really a disservice to yourself. Right? So as designers of space, you know, I want us to shift that perspective.

C We need to first recognize that it's okay to design beautiful and thoughtful spaces even if it just benefits disabled people or the elderly or whatever other marginalized community needs to use the space. The reason why universal design exists to begin with is to level out that playing field. Right? To go above the bare minimum, to be inclusive of people with disabilities in an otherwise inaccessible place. As a default, the world is already designed for the non disabled. You know, so I I don't find the urgency to have to include non disabled people in the design. So all we're asking is that you don't leave us with an ugly tack on ramp at the side of the building. And I think if someone doesn't understand that inequity, then it's hard to understand the value of universal design to begin with. So, you know, to change our mindset about universal design, we first need to change how we think about disability and disabled people in general.

C And I think that that's a slow and complex and circuitous process because to change that mindset, we need to increase the visibility of disabled people. And in order to do that, we need to build more accessible environments for those disabled people to be visible in. And in order to do that, we need to teach architects and designers to implement inclusivity into their design. And I think that's where I hope the trajectory of the universal design movement goes, to encourage architects to learn more about it, apply it to their practice, and recognize the importance of including people who are different from them in their design process. It will also be incredibly important for this to be part of architecture school curriculum. It becomes more crucial for us to start hiring disabled people in our firms because I think that education and advocacy are the key to solving this issue.

B So one of the things that even you mentioned in the progression of your own story was the different types of spaces that we need to create because there's a lot of invisible disabilities as well. So how do we continue to learn more and advocate? Or what resources what can we do also to bring to light more of the invisible disabilities, which I feel like in the whole broader conversation of universal design and accessibility is still an area that is generally overlooked.

C Yeah. No. You're absolutely right. And like you said, we were discussing earlier about the struggles that I've faced going through, well, life, but particularly in my career, I can only imagine how much worse it is for people with invisible disabilities because they have to constantly prove that they need help. Right? And I think one of the issues that I've witnessed relates a lot to, you know, the workplace, in workplace culture, and that is when people, disabled people, ask for accommodations. Now the biggest and most powerful thing that a person in, like, an architecture office can and should learn is to listen and to believe the needs of the people who are working there. We need to shift our understanding that what's quote unquote needed to function well at a job differs between people. And it's I think it goes beyond even, like, visible and invisible disabilities.

C And it seems like an obvious thing, but there's this lack of empathy in many workplaces that is astounding to me. You know? I've heard, several stories where management has requested extensive documentation, medical documentation before an employee can receive reasonable accommodations because their disability is not visibly apparent. And not only is that discriminatory, but it discourages trust and transparency in the office. You know, many of these employees would just end up suffering through whatever barrier they're facing through this lack of accommodations, which, you know, would then reduce productivity and motivation and, you know, probably end up with them having to leave the company at some point. And I think many often don't understand is that and this applies to the workplace and life in general, is that asking for accommodations, whether you have a visible disability or not, is a difficult task to begin with. Now we already feel like we're inconveniencing people by asking. So, you know, if you think about it, like doing doing so and asking must mean that we really need it. Again, regardless of whether you're disabled or not, if it's going to create a more comfortable, more efficient, and more productive environment, why does it matter? You know? Why can't we just provide the accommodations? Yeah.

C The bottom line is that we need to invest in our employees. What we're asking for are simply tools to make our already complicated lives just a little bit easier. And if we create a culture where employees can comfortably ask for help, then we build that trust and we build that confidence for them to do good work.

A I'm sure employers in particular would welcome any advice you have for how to approach this in a workplace environment to walk that delicate line of listening and creating a safe space, but also not creating an uncomfortable situation for someone who has to

C disclose this information or doesn't want to. So do you have any tips that disabled person who has been, like, a disabled person who has been, like, working for quite some time now is and I think this I have talked to other disabled people who feel the same way. You know, we ourselves know exactly what we need. Right? We've been living our lives adapting to a world that's not accessible to us. And, you know, kinda going back to what I said earlier, if we ask, that means we really need it. And the thing that we have learned throughout our lives as disabled people is that we have been really good at asking when we need it. And for management, the best thing that you can do is to let it be known that you are that you are open to that conversation. And it could be as simple as asking, you know, is there anything that you need for, to make your working environment easier? And it's not it's not asking, you know, using the technical terms of, like, because of your disability, do you have any reasonable accommodations? It's not about that.

C It's about, you know, having that connection with with the person that you're speaking to and being like, hey. I'm I'm here to help you. What is there anything that you need? And more likely than not, we already know the things that we need. We just needed an opportunity to ask it. And I think another thing that I've discussed with other people with disabilities is that it becomes kinda isolating and marginalizing when the the work environment specifically targets you as as someone who must need something. You know? And I think that it becomes more comfortable for disabled people to ask for what they need when they see that the organization or the the workplace in general accommodates other people too. And it's not just like, oh, there is a disabled people, they must need something. It's like, oh, like, how how can we be more accommodating and encouraging to everyone in the firm?

A That makes sense to me. And and you mentioned ableism earlier in the episode. I was wondering if you could maybe frame that for us so that we can contrast it and understand what the other part of the spectrum is.

C So earlier, I mentioned that almost every other aspect of my life has included, like, a lot of different types of ableism. And the ableism that I resent the most is when people don't find that I am capable in doing things and that I, you know, can't possibly do certain things solely because of my disability. And, you know, examples of that is just the simple act of of grocery shopping, for instance. Like, I get a lot of people staring at me because I'm doing my grocery shopping by myself. And that kind of gets exacerbated when that same way of thinking gets applied to my workplace, to my profession, and my career. Because, you know, I know. I have the confidence to know that I am capable and knowledgeable in the world of architecture. Right? And for someone to question that solely because of my disability is is really disappointing, and it's really unmotivating.

C So in the context of workplace accommodations, I think the attitude that management needs to have is that I am providing these tools for this disabled person. So not because I think they can't do something, but instead because giving them this tool would enhance the job that they're doing. It would make it easier and more comfortable for them to do their job. And it yeah. I think that's how management should approach this issue in the workplace. And how that could play out is, you know, when when asking about whether an employee needs accommodations instead of using language that are marginalizing and isolating, like, hey. You're a disabled person. What kind of, you know, quote, unquote reasonable accommodations, which is the legal term for it, do you need, you know, for this workplace? And instead, you know, treating them as as human beings, treating them as a regular employee, and saying things like, hey.

C Is there anything that you need to make your work environment work better for you. And I think simply by switching up your language so that disabled people don't feel, like, so much, like, a legal burden, you know, or a financial burden is already incredibly helpful in the realm of erasing that ableism in the workplace.

B I wanna take a moment to reacknowledge your appointment to the access board and what a big deal that is on a national scale. Can you tell us, 1, a little bit about what it means for you personally? And then maybe talk a little bit about how it's changed your voice and your contribution to this conversation or potentially elevated it? And then ultimately, what's your hope for the future now that you have this new platform?

C Yeah. I mean, it's been an incredible honor to be appointed as a public member of the board. I remember I was in the Philippines doing my Fulbright when I got the email asking if I was interested in well, at that point in, like, applying for the position. And, you know, I was in the Philippines. The the time zones were, you know, were opposites. And the email got sent to me at, like, 3 AM Philippines time. So I really opened it up at 6 AM when I woke up, and I never exaggerated when I say that I jumped out of bed when I saw the email. Because being on the access board is one of the goals that I had in the future of my career.

C I have always thought that in order to be a member of the board, that I would have to have garnered a lot of different experiences, have been in the workforce for much longer. It was not something that I was expecting to participate in, like, this early in my career. So when I received that email, it was kind of this boost of confidence that, okay. I'm doing things right. The passion that I feel for this, for the subject matter, for this topic has been seen and understood, and people are are seeing the the work that I've been doing in this, you know, accessibility and universal design realm. And it was such, yeah, boost of confidence and a boost of motivation to do more. In a nutshell, as part of the board, we act as ambassadors to accessibility in the built environment, And that includes buildings, public rights of ways, transportation, even, like, digital communication among other things. So we're not only responsible for their review and issuance of various accessibility related rulings and guidelines, but we also act as liaisons to and from the public.

C So we're here to learn about the various issues that may exist and the public informs us of. And we're also here to, you know, teach others how to design to be more accessible. So being in that sphere is an incredible honor to me. You know, Personally, I have valued and admired the Access Board for so long to be able to do this and have that national level platform to share what I'm most passionate about. There's no bigger word to describe it than incredible and astonishing and wonderful, and I'm so happy and proud to be in this position. And being here has opened up all of these, like, bigger opportunities to advocate for accessibility in architecture, but also and what I think is one of the coolest parts of this whole experience is I feel like it created this huge community of support for the thing that I believe in so strongly. Ever since I got appointed to the board, I've gotten, you know, all the messages and all the texts and all the articles written and all of that just showing how supportive the architecture community is and how they just want the best for me and how well they want me to succeed, I feel great. It's basically in conclusion, I feel great.

C And like I said, a lot more motivated to do to do good work because there's all the people who believe in me and who are have just been incredibly supportive the last few months.

A We want you to succeed because I think that you have an important role to play in leading us forward. And so whatever comes from it, I know we're all gonna be listening, trying to understand and learn where we should go next and how we can push the conversation further in our work and in our lives. So we're excited for you. We're looking forward to following how this plays out.

C Thank you so much. I mean, you know, having being in this podcast and being able to share my story and having you to be very supportive of this journey, it's really special to me. So thank you so much for having me here.

B Hi, disruptors. If you like the content from today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practice of architecture dotcom/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining us, our speakers, and others in the community at practiceofarchitecture.com/community. Our social media handle is practice of arc. That's practice of a r c h. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to drop us a DM and say hello. Thank you for joining us on practice disrupted, a podcast by the practice of architecture. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.