The Skills Required for a Technology Driven Future

A Welcome to Practice Disrupted, a podcast where we find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. I'm your host, Evelyn Lee, an architect who spans tech as an angel investor, start up advisor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're a seasoned architect or just starting in the field, this Hello, disruptors. Welcome to this week's episode of Practice Disrupted. Today, we're bringing back the founders of Stantis, Andy Robert and Mercedes Katakiri to talk about the skills everyone needs to be successful within a technology driven future. Andy is a professional architect from ORT University in Uruguay. She lived in Germany and pursued graduate studies in Dessau, where the former Bauhaus is located. Today, she is the CEO of Slantus, which she cofounded in 2016 with her lifelong friend, Maier.

A And as you will see, they are both willing to disrupt the way we practice architecture. Andy is energetic, curious, and entrepreneurial, and is actively involved in events that advocate for women as leaders. She's Beltran and Jaime's mum, a vegan, and a lifelong learner. Mare is Andy's cofounder, leading innovation operations and strategy at Slantus. Mare is a licensed architect and entrepreneur specializing in innovation and technology. She received her degree from the faculty of architecture at Oudell Earth in Uruguay and also studied at ANSAG in Grenoble, France. She also has a background in digital fabrication from MIT's Fab Academy. Prior to founding Slantus, she worked at Jean Nouvelle's studio in Paris and led multiple developments in Montevideo.

A When she's not working, she enjoys art, skating, and spending time with her family. Thank you so much, Andy and Mara for being here. You guys always make my day whenever I get to spend any time for you because of the positive energy that you bring to the conversation or just to the environment we're in. So thank you again for joining us on Practice Disrupted. It's so great to have you here.

B Woo hoo. We're super happy to be here.

C You make our day too, so it's mutual. Thanks for having us.

A Aw. So we opened with your formal bios, but is there anything else that you can share maybe as by way of icebreaker to kind of introduce our audience to your voices, but also just maybe we'll learn a little bit something more about either 1 of you too.

C I don't know. Maybe fun fact few people know is I I started windsurfing a month ago.

A Oh.

C That's new.

A Are you really enjoying it?

C Definitely. Yeah. It's good to keep to keep up the new flavors and face new challenges. So I kind of train myself to do that right now with.

B I can add to what Mair said that she's really, really good with extreme sports. So she's probably doing really good. She also skates and snowboards. About me, I also enjoy extreme sports but not windsurfing. Now something that I would add is through my entrepreneurial journey, I started being obsessed with reading, and I started being, like, kind of a bookworm. And I set myself a goal of reading 30 books a year. So that brings about 3 books a month, more or less. And I've been keeping up that for the past 2 years, and I'm on track this year now again.

B I love reading, so everybody that has recommendations for cool books about businesses, bios, or something about habits or improving your life for the better, I'm really intrigued on on listening recommendations.

A Amazing. I feel like we should put some of your recommendations down in the show notes. For our listeners who have never heard of Slantus, can you tell us a little bit about Slantus and just the overall mission and vision you to have for the company?

B For vision, we started out as a typical outsourcing company and then rapidly migrated into how we can create impact leveraging technology for architecture project delivery. So our vision is to kind of change the way the AEC industry is working and how the architecture profession is being developed through technology.

C Yeah. We wanna change the AEC for the better. So our mission is revolutionize the AEC through technology. And something really important about us is that we're not an architecture firm. We're a technology company working for architecture.

A How did you guys come to so I know we we delved into this a little bit, but just just from your perspective and for the conversation going forward, and and, Mara, because you called it out so specifically, you're a technology firm working and supporting architects. Why decide to take that role on specifically rather than start your own firm together?

C The path, like, now looking back, it all came up pretty naturally and gradually. So the first thing is that we decided very early on that we wanted to work remotely. This was before 2020. And the the root reason there was because we live in Uruguay, which is a very, very small country, only with 3, 000, 000 people. And we both lived abroad and we both have been connected, like, through the world. And that's 1 thing. And the other thing it's because we see technology as an enabler of better architecture and better buildings. So we both really like design.

C We both really like art. So it's not we're in the technology realm because we're not into the design realm. It's we're in the technology realm because we believe that can make more room for better design and better buildings. So I get really mad when people call us a firm and not a technology company because we're a technology company for architecture firms to be better. We believe the impact is bigger.

B And I would add, and this was through a recent conversation that we had, at some point, we realized that the impact impact was so much bigger because we are dealing with a shift in the paradigm paradigm of mindset and how architecture has been conceived up to this point and how we need to change our mindsets in order to embrace technology. And that is a much bigger impact than than the tool itself or just technology by itself, but rather figuring out how to reshape how we're doing architecture.

A Yeah. And I think I mean, honestly, 1 of the reasons why I wanted to bring the 2 of you back on is because of this space that you're operating in relative to technology and architecture. Architecture. So, you know, how even in the last year, have you guys pivoted your offerings in response to some of the changes that you're seeing in the industry? And maybe a second follow-up conversation to that is how have your conversations with with current or potential clients shifted as well?

B So we recently were invited to give a talk at the large firm roundtable CIO group in March, and we were asked the same question at actually, they asked us to create a talk to discuss exactly what you're asking. And our answer to that was, I think at some point, we first need to figure out what is not going to change and emphasize on that and focus on that and then figure out what is going to change. Because what we've been seeing for the past, like, probably, like, 20 years is that things that are that has been changing had been very slowly being adopted, or it takes time for things to be adopted. And AI and, generative AI has recently burst last year. So it takes a while, and I believe that we are still trying to catch up in some of the other things that appear early 2000. So we had a conversation on there are some things that are not going to change and what we believe is is the human capacity to collaborate and cooperate, and how we connect to each other and how we relate to each other and how we better and more efficiently collaborate between each other. And the 2 are just just a middleman, let's say, like, just, the enabler, as Mara said. But people behind tools and even AI are what really

C are the center of the conversation for for us. And something we were just discussing is that our offerings haven't really changed or, like, fairly remain the same, which shows that somehow we've been ahead and our offerings can cover the current needs and their previous needs. What we have seen change though is more clients, more architecture firms, or just technology clients start to be more interested in systems, processes, and workflows. So what has changed is the industry interest, if you will, towards systems that are more generic and focus on the firm and not really on the project. So if you take AI for example, right now the the the impact on it, it's very on on very small stages and let's say design phases of of what we see of at the end to end process. So it's fairly located at the beginning of an architecture project development or or more in silo tasks, but not in the end to end process. What we've seen is people start to be more interested in what we have to offer on the consulting side, and on how to develop a system that works for all project. And not only help us produce on this project because we're in a crunch, but help us to understand what we can harvest from this project and apply through all our process in general.

C So there there was more shift in interest from our clients and from the industry rather than in our offerings itself.

B And also adding to what Mara was saying and also through the conversation that we recently had, at the CIO group, we were discussing how those leaders or CIOs or CTOs were usually kind of not under center of the conversation, and now it started to shift their roles into a more critical role inside architectural firms. Before, they were mainly the people that allow licenses to be up and running or troubleshooting. But now it's more from a strategic angle and figuring out how to really use technology to better produce architecture and in the end deliver it.

A Andy, you mentioned a little bit about us being behind. Even things from the early 2000, we haven't necessarily adopted. I've often kind of joked about how there's architecture firms that have Revit but still use it like CAD as a for instance. What are other examples that you can give of of things that architecture firms really should be doing to catch up so they can make use, better use of the technology that they probably already subscribe to?

B So we always talk about culture and culture being or organizational culture being the mindset enabler. We are using a lot of words, but it actually is. Like, if you put people on the right mindset, then people will be open to using different lead tools and understanding how to better collaborate or work to us from their peers. I think, traditionally, our our profession is really siloed even within firms. So I would say that the first or, first lesson learned from being more of a on the tech end is being a bit more open source and being a bit more open in sharing what everyone knows so everybody can learn from their own lessons learned or from others. So I would say that that's part of the critical thing that it's being left behind. Like, architectural firms usually or what we've seen is culture is really part of their HR policies, but not it's not at the center. And to be really tech driven and being really innovative in how you approach problems, and this is from architecture to any sort of problem.

B You need a culture and a pool of talent that is up to the challenge. And for that, that requires a lot of work internally to produce that culture to be on the right mindset. So what we are seeing is the architecture profession being a bit behind on on just cultural policies that promote innovation, I would say.

C Yeah. That for sure. And then, like, how how architecture firms organized, it's very old fashioned, let's say, and does not really enable collaboration and and interactions as they are needed throughout our project. So organizational systems within firm is a is a big thing to address. And then there's also what Andy was mentioning about technology, let's say, philosophies, and not only on the open source side, but I would take documenting. I think something we've done really good and and see the value right now, because we've been running for for for 8 years is document what you know and improve it as you improve what you know. So knowledge management in an architecture firm is incredibly important and touches not only the projects and the project components, but but everything within the firm, like, from the operations to the projects, to the onboarding of people, to pretty much how you make sure your your organization is learning as you keep producing projects and how everybody is also learning within that context.

B Yeah. Then usually, it's more focused on the delivery rather than the learning, and the learning brings excellent delivery in the end. So.

A I almost want you to kind of walk us through what a client interaction then looks like for you guys because, you know, Mare opened up very strongly first and foremost saying that you're a technology company. And both of you kind of just touched on how in order to enable this technology correctly, it's really about culture and mindset and operations and systems that you have set up in the firm, which not are not necessarily they're technology enabled, but not necessarily, like, technology driven, like, these are all things that an architecture firm could have independent or probably should have independent of like, even how they're using their technology. So then what does kind of a client engagement look like for you when you realize that you are faced with a culture that's not going to be able to even fully leverage your services because of just because of how the firm is is run operationally?

C You spot on the right challenge. What we've seen is it's it's easier, not easy, but easier to change a culture from the inside than from from the outside. So what we've learned teaming up with clients that maybe have a a very different way of organizing and practices that are far from the technology practices we embrace and use. Is that working as an extended team and joining their team fully from the inside, we start to, let's say, produce changes in workflows and systems, and and it's pretty rewarding to see how some of our rituals get embedded into another company's culture because it does produce better projects and and better collaboration. And so to answer your question more specifically is it takes time because you gotta you gotta have the whole team on board in order to have culture. So it's not it's not a a pretty list of things you like people to do listed on our website or on an office. But what we've seen is, like, even even for those firms that that have very different policies or or different systems or sometimes even rigid systems is that if those systems don't work, then people are open to change. And and the good thing here is that usually when systems are inflexible enough, people know they don't work even if they don't wanna change those.

C So that's our open door or open window. That's our crack.

A Do you usually find that you're inserted then into, like, 1 specific project? And then as you work with that client over time, your team begins working with more projects across the spectrum.

B Yes. And something that we recently got from 1 of our clients is this feedback from 1 of our clients, and it was really fun to hear was as Lantus operates internally as the Switzerland of Revit. Meaning that even inside the firms, there are a lot of disagreements on how to properly use technology. So we come in as these neutral sound voice of knowledge on things that we already seen with other clients that really work, and we're all always suggesting leverage technology sometimes with a people perspective, leverage technology, sometimes with a people perspective, they don't agree on the best processes and systems. So, there is a human component there of of being in the middle or just negotiating what are the best practices and then applying them.

C That's 1 of the best compliments we've ever received.

B Yeah. Because,

C like, in the era of information in which you get bombarded with the 3 best tips or a full of recipes, and you you really get forced to, like, just follow 3 steps without critically thinking if those are the right steps. For us, like, being being able to leverage different options within a tool or within whatever, and having that critical spirit, which is something that will not change, not even with AI, was really was really good.

A This conversation has actually taken a unique turn because I thought we would be honestly, firmly on the technology side, but now we're talking about a lot of people and culture and and integration and mindset. I mean, that puts your people in a very unique position, but I also feel like you have to train your people differently to operate in that space within a firm? Because the being the Switzerland incorporates a lot more, I would say soft skills than just having, like you're, you know, just being a CAD drafter. So how like, what does professional development look like at Slantus? And how do you find people like that, that can operate in those type of situations?

B Doctor. So our key focus is collaboration, and everything that implies collaboration. So from communication and training people, the people that we work with are native American speakers, but most of our team are Spanish speakers as a first language. So these are really smart people that are working in a second language technically. So communication wise, it's critical to, teach them also the cultural gaps that that may imply. Just discussing about, how was your day and not sounding, I don't know, just weird or something. Like, from very basic tips to really technically complex discussions, we get all the communication training. Then talking about BIM, we really focus on how to integrate again and through collaboration.

B It's not about the cloud itself, but how people are managing models and who is accountable of what. And again, this also falls into a more soft skills side, like, how to respect others' spaces and not sneak into others' work or something. And then the third part that we train a lot internally is technical architecture, detailing, how to coordinate effectively and how to transmit a possible solution for a window detail or for a curtain wall detail and just have a constructive interaction because sometimes our suggestion is not the best and how to figure out what are the others people's suggestion and how to leverage on that and how to just build up from everyone's strengths.

C Evelyn, you just gave us an idea, which is having a training on how to be the Switzerland of whatever because because it's really hard. I mean, for us and for the team to go and talk to a client and and and propose an option or or a way of doing something that differs completely on how they're doing things. And and it's harder to present an alternative option if that alternative option, like, is different in every sense, in every area, in every stage of the project.

A Right.

C So I I just remember about a very hard lessons we learned with Andy. I think we were there were 4 of us, so it was a while ago in which I remember we were working with a client, 1 of our first clients. And after we completed a project, we shared some lessons learned on the way that they were doing things. The thing was we presented those lessons learned in a very rigid and unempathetic, if you will, chart showing, like, how things were being done and and what alternative we thought could be worth exploring. And our client got really mad. And at some point, we didn't understand what was happening. We were like, we're proposing good ideas and alternatives, but we weren't we weren't being smart enough on how those are ideas were being proposed and and we were now lining the benefits of it and and the collaboration that led us to propose those ideas because there's no way we can propose something interesting if we haven't been, like, very tightly collaborating with our clients. So I just remember about that lessons because because like everything we do and everything we present to our clients and every is really well crafted and cared and emphasized this on on the collaboration spirit and and on the fact that nobody's wrong or right.

C We're just in the seek of a better solution and and a way of better doing things. And if you see it from from that point of view, it's it's a whole different mindset. So we're we're launching a new training.

A Not only launching the new training, I almost feel like Slantus could launch a whole consulting practice on how to better collaborate and communicate within firms, Irrespective, like, the technology implications that or technology applications that you guys bring to the table, you're training your people to go into very difficult situations and be that Switzerland. And I I just know a lot of US firms that would benefit from that type of professional development at the corporate level in house, frankly. Yes. So how do you ladies stay ahead of of what's next, and how do you all continuously improve your processes then? Because, Mary, And you've evolved you've evolved it. So how do you guys continue to or how does Lantus continue to evolve its practice as it engages with more and more clients?

C I would say, so so first, I think that there's the right mindset. So we do have systems in place for making sure we're we're improving everything we do, but all of those systems which are wikis or hot desk or channels or or other things are draw on the company's mindset and and the the collective and individual responsibility of understanding what can improve others process or project or whatever. I think that's very important and then more on a on a operations level. So every time we close a project, we share lessons learned, we harvest those lessons learned, we make sure we archive those, we upgrade what needs to be upgraded. I'm talking very abstractly, but that happens on every cell with every team and throughout Slantus. So we make sure, like, that information, it's not only improved and harvest, but also flows throughout through our newsletter, through our general meetings.

B And and I will add to what Mer was saying. We as founders do a lot of work of connecting and networking outside our own industry and learning from other industries, which is something that we are seeing that the USAAC lacks because usually you interact with people around the AC from possible clients, real estate developers, contractors, and, like, what if you can talk to another tech founder or to someone in, random industry, like, I don't know, doing chips. There's a friend of mayors that, does gluten free and has a plant like a factory and there's a lot to learn from that. So learning from other industries and learning from other, I'm talking from that to, like, Merrick going to TechCrunch and understanding possible other advances or innovations that are happening in the tech world. So I would encourage everyone, and this is this has been 1 of our secrets on keeping up, is there's a lot of things that have been already tested and proven in other industries that ours have not, And you need to be talking to other people to learn what's going on with their industry and what their what their challenges are. And that's also a way of kind of seeing the future because our industry has been a bit before in adopting specifically technology. So just going out there and connecting with people and understanding and learning how our industries work, I would say it's the it's 1 of the of the secrets of being the forefront of understanding what's what's coming up next. It's

C all about people.

A So you both alluded to the fact that you didn't wanna be a firm because you didn't believe it could have as much of an impact on the architecture industry as being a technology company that supports architecture firms. What is the big dream of Slantus? If that transformation were to happen in the industry, the 1 that you guys so desperately, like, want to see happen, what does that look like? What what does an architecture future look like in that world?

B So I would say that the ultimate impact impacted fame with the people and the end users of, the buildings. And then we started out Slanted at a typical coffee shop conversation on how our profession was really something was not adding up and something was really wrong about us staying long, long hours trying to crack things and we've experienced firsthand how technology can really improve the quality of life of architects and ultimately impact on the buildings that we are designing and again ultimately impact on the people that are using and operating those buildings. So if we can do just a glimpse of that and figure out how technology can speed up and make architects happier a little bit less stress profession, then I think we kind of check the box. Again, we I would say that we finish up from where we started, like technology is a huge game changer and biggest enabler. So that's what we want to accomplish. At least have a better quality of life for for for our profession, and that can translate into better design and better buildings in the end, I guess.

C Yeah. There there's a lot about claiming back the the architecture profession. So we're both licensed architect behind the covers. I think I think the impact will have to touch not only the architecture profession but, the built environment as a whole. The the design of our CDs were taking off space for good design, and and you can tell by walking and and looking around. And there's also so we've always said we were going to revolutionize the industry. And at some point, we said 1 project at a time. I think right now, we're we're understanding how to move next and how to influence and shape the industry, not only through projects, maybe also through collaboration frameworks and trying to generate substance or at least trying to open a little bit more our practices and what do we do internally to collaborate better so other people can use it, like, independently if they're working with us or not.

C Because 1 project at a time, it would take it would take too long.

A It's funny because, like, literally, 1 of my last questions is, like, beyond technology and software solutions, what are other areas that the architecture industry can be disrupted? I feel like this whole conversation has been about all of the other areas that the architecture industry can be disrupted to to help us drive technological innovation, which again is kind of a surprising conversation. And I guess I should have known that having talked to the 2 of you before. But but I was like, no. This is gonna be a technology conversation.

C There's there's something well, I repeat all the time which is, technology properly understood is any new and better way of doing things. So you don't need a computer, you just like to do things in a new and better way and for that to need you need to understand what you're doing and understand why another thing would be better, and you need everyone to be in that mood and align with that vibe. So it's a culture problem. And then, yeah, and then another recent story came to mind which is we were talking with Ale. He's an account executive at at Slanty. So he's not an architect formally as a background. And we were in a meeting and he was like, oh, this is a more of an engineer problem. And and I thought it was a very complex architecture problem.

C And and I think I think our mission also here is kind of to to take off the idea of an architect doing a very quick and simple drawing towards to really understand how things work and how to put a building together, which is as complex as how to put a car together or an rocket together. So I think I think our mission has to do a little bit with that too.

B Yes. Totally.

A So obviously you guys are based in Uruguay and your most of your workforce is from Uruguay. And I wish we had more listeners, but I in Uruguay, but I think the majority of them are is coming from the US. 1, is there any way that our US friends, like, what is the best way for our US friends to to learn, to be a part of, to support what you're doing at Slantis. Is there a way that the listeners can kind of be a part of your journey short of hiring you to to be a part of their company?

B So we love connecting with people, as we were mentioning, from the most crazy connections to most obvious ones or people that are in the industry that it would be natural to connect with us. We love to have, I'm quoting Mary here, but, like, substance conversations or conversations of substance of really understanding what everyone's perspective of the industry is. I was reading yesterday on 1 of the books that I'm reading, a concept really interesting that said that perception is different from so perception is different from perspective. So perception is what you see and through your own eyes, but perspective is what you gain about the same topic talking to others. So you're able to see the exact same thing through through other people's eyes. And that is really powerful because you have a bit more of understanding of the thing or problem or challenge that you're discussing about. So I would say that reach out to us. We'd love to connect and just understand what you're doing and what your lessons learned are, what you're trying to accomplish.

B And even if you're a mill manager or just junior designer, just out of school, what are your interests? Like, every person, and we like to say this a lot, is like a Pandora box, and you can learn so many things from each person that you meet with. So we basically like like to connect and just learn what you're doing and then figure out at some point if we can create some synergies. But at the beginning, it's just connecting and getting to know each other.

C Yes. Definitely encouraging people to join the conversation and create useful discussions around the topics we believe are important for our industry.

A And then finally, what advice do you give to either people coming out of school or young leaders in the profession who share the desire for change that you have, but may not be in the best position to create change within their firms?

C Maybe don't get frustrated first, And then maybe it's more of a wide thought than advice, but as technology evolves and as new generations come, the change will happen. And I think it would happen faster than we expect, and it would be a little bit more abrupt than what we were expecting, at least what I was expecting a couple years ago. So my advice would be focus on becoming AAA subject matter expert and critically thinking because that would last forever. Your ability to understand what you're doing or the industry or a specific project type will always beat whatever comes next. So focus on on deeply understanding from a very critical point of view, foster thinking for yourself, and and and deepen your knowledge no matter what technology will come or how hard change fills the niche of the niche and understanding in-depth never wears off.

B No. I love what Mara said, and I would add on the same narrow what I was mentioning before, just get out there, explore, talk to people. You never know where ideas come from everywhere. So just just don't be scared to go out and talk to everyone. Just people that feel that are out of your reach, they aren't. Technology has also allowed us to connect in a much simpler way and easier way with people that before it seemed very difficult to connect with. So don't be scared and just reach out to people and let them know about what you think about stuff and just be curious and and open. I think that would be my, I don't know if it's an advice or just out of my experience what has really worked, just getting out there and and don't be scared to

C talk to people. Yes. That's super important, and you always emphasize it and I love it. And also don't be afraid to to mix and match. So we did it with architecture and technology, but I feel there's more mix and match right now than ever. And the more the world evolves, the more things you can do and things that weren't going to be together in your mind because you were forced to choose architecture or, I don't know biotechnology, maybe there there is a way in which you can mix those 2 together. So always like complementary disciplines or or mixing and matching things that don't necessarily go together may also be an interesting path. There's there's room for that today.

A Hi, disruptors. Thank you for joining us today on an episode of practice disrupted. If you like the content for today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practice of architecture.com/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining me, our speakers, and other disruptors in our community at practice of architecture.com/community. Our social media handle is practice of arch. That's practice of ARCH. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to drop us a DM and say hello. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.