Architecture, And: Film

A I'm Evelyn Lee.

B And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

B Welcome to Practice disrupted.

A Hi, listeners. Hello, Janine.

B Hey, Evelyn. Hey,

A how everyone. So this is our 2nd to last episode in season 1, and I really like to think that we saved one of the best for last. It also happens to be very timely given the release of a 2nd season of a certain Lucasfilm series, how which made baby Yoda so popular last year.

B Yeah. Baby Yoda. Someone how there just got really excited and someone else is cringing. You may be wondering, how does baby Yoda connect to architecture? Well, on today's episode, how we're gonna continue our running series dedicated to architecture, Anne. So far, we've spoken with an entrepreneur of start up and an entrepreneur doing social impact work. Today's episode, we're expanding the conversation to understand how architecture relates to film and television. We were incredibly lucky to have today's guest join us who has a powerful resume and portfolio of work that bridges the gap between those 2 worlds.

A Rebecca Bookbinder is an art director working in film and television. She has collaborated on notable productions including The Mandalorian, how Star Wars episode 9, The Rise of Skywalker and The Dark Crystal, Age of Resistance. A graduate of my alma mater at SCI Arc with a master of architecture. Rebecca's background in architecture and fascination with the ephemeral has led her into the world of filmmaking and ultimately Has informed a career in set design and world building. Her work in television and film transports audiences into imaginary worlds for people to experience. How She believes her career has been a balance of taking risks and serendipitous moments that led her to where she was meant to be. How You can see more of Rebecca's work on October 30th when season 2 of The Mandalorian airs. Let's cut to the interview.

A How. So, Rebecca, you're an art director, who has worked on Dark Crystal and Rise of Skywalker, which I think is really, really exciting. Those are two how titles that our audience is very familiar with. Can you start off by telling us a little bit about the role of art director in film? And how What would somebody who's seen those films be able to see of your work?

C Well, where we should start is the designer, production designer. And Sometimes the role is 1 and the same. It could be a small, production, and then you have the art director is the same thing as the how designer. But all of the jobs that I've worked on so far, you know, they've had the designated production designer and then the art director underneath. So the production designer is in charge of overseeing the entire look of the of the film or the show, And the art director is more concerned with all the fine finer details and becomes a liaison between how the production designer and the construction team. So we become project managers in that sense. How

A I think there's a really unique parallel that we can draw between the fact that, especially in larger firms, not everyone's a designer. Right? How So there's larger firms that have the 1 or 2 or 3 people that actually does or even smaller firms that how the majority of the design, and then you also have your project managers that's kind of executing against that design. Right. How So when we think of, like, everything that we are project managing is our various different consultants. Acoustic, lighting, HVAC, how you know, there might even be carpentry in there. Are you coordinating similar efforts then as an art director, bringing the vision of how The

C villain life? Exactly. I mean, in architecture, you have systems. But in film, it's more like all of the departments that contribute to how The shot itself are the systems. You have, like, costumes. You have special effects. You have construction. How You have, lighting and rigging and and all of that are the living, breathing systems of of this of the set.

A Yeah. And you were when we were talking and preparing for this episode, you actually mentioned a really interesting point to me was, like, you need to make sure an actor is not gonna trip over how Whatever elaborate costume they have to Right. As they're walking through the environment. So, like, I don't know. That might be similar to, like, how To ADA or I can think of, you know, in the kitchen, we have these we have these certain dish carts that we always do to accommodate for. But I've never think about, like, how that's played out, like, at the film level. So that's that's really interesting to me.

C To not think about ADA anymore. How It's quite liberating. But

B Great. Because because rules are quite different in film.

C Right. That being said, you know, we still face some conditions that we have to account how that are similar to architecture. Like, you know, if you're making an awning in a location where tornadoes are prone, you have to get an engineering. You have to make it structurally stable just in case something happens. But ours gets torn down, you know, 5 minutes later. How

A But it also means it probably comes together a lot faster. Right? Like, one of my things that I always struggled with in architecture was how that is gonna take me 4 or 5 years from conception to end to see one of my like, to see anything I worked on come together. So how So I I imagine things are coming together a lot faster too even though they're being taken down pretty fast.

C And that's and that's how Ultimately, why I I didn't want to go into architecture. One, because I don't have the patience whatsoever, And I recognize that pretty early on in life. And 2, I'm obsessed with the ephemeral. Right? Like, so being able to iterate really fast And to see what works, what doesn't work. So the 1st time that I worked on a project, it was Dark Crystal. And they had me design one of the columns based off of a Brian Froud design, Brian Froud was the original designer for the fairies and for all of the architecture, the gothic architecture. And I designed something in in Maya and three d printed it, handed it to the sculptor, and within 8 hours, he had something blocked out already. And this is a column that was, like, 9 feet tall.

C And I got this, high. I don't know. Like, I I

B yeah, instant gratification.

C Oh, completely. And, you know, us being millennials, that's, you know, kind of what we're all about. So, Yeah. I knew this is where I wanted to be. I mean, there was something on, Praise the Skywalker how that the director had asked for last minute. Like, it was a whole set, but he asked for it, but then he realized last minute that it was gonna be able to play a larger role. So we had to put some more, you know, more details into it.

A And and let's be realistic. We've all had clients that at the very last minute have changed their minds. So

C Right. Which which is understandable. You know, you don't understand It's

A a human

C Exactly. And I had to design a hatch. I was help helping an art director, and I was a set designer for it, and she asked me to make a hatch. How So I designed a prelim drew up a prelim and then sent it to her, and then I kept working it because you do usually a how Preliminary drawing, and then you do a release drawing. Usually, you never wanna work off of a preliminary. It's just to give them a heads up. Hey, this is what's coming your way. This is you can account for the material that needs to be ordered, and you can figure out any of the engineering that needs to be accounted for.

C How But, you know, I sent that preliminary and I kept, you know, tweaking the design and then sent it to her, I think, how 2 hours later, and then she just sent me a picture back with, you know, the the hatch I already built. And I was like, okay, well, that was how That was pointless, but, you know, it's just that it's that super fast iteration, you know. And this hatch was not a small hatch. It was, how I wanna say 5 by 3 or something. You know?

A Yeah. That's crazy. Like, I can't I don't know. I have a like, we We can't even conceive of a bathroom. Or the smallest the smallest room in your house. Right? Like like, yeah. It would put me that long to put, like, a a decent door schedule together, I think.

C Oh god. Schedules.

B You were telling us also that on a on a average film, you might have up to 300 different sets included in that film.

C Yeah. Yeah. No. It's, how Not to brag, but no. I'm really not brag. The other projects that I've worked on, it's, you know, it's up to 300. But that being said, some of them become how You use the same set that you they call it revamping. So you change a couple elements, and, it becomes a whole new set.

C How

A That that's interesting too because when you talk about, like, the need to think in systems, I think that's like a a different way to think in systems too. Right? Like, how I don't know. It's it's like it's it's a very temporal use of adaptive reuse, right, and how it's how it's applied to the physical environment. How So we kind of just dived headfirst into what you do, and you alluded to very slightly about kind of why you didn't wanna go into traditional practice, how In particular, because of the timeline, can you kind of walk us through how you actually got into film in the 1st place?

C So, I got my bachelor's degree in Texas in a town in a how in a city called San Antonio, and, I went to study abroad in Spain. And while I was doing study abroad in Spain, I started seeing people, designing for, Like a a space hotel. And I was like, wait, you know, there isn't just high end residential. From there, like, my my, vision of what architecture is expanded. And then I learned about a school called SCI Arc, and I applied and I got in. And it it was nothing but, like, very avant garde architectural approach to being an architectural pedagogy. And I learned so many how Programs and the way that they approached architecture was a very the image became forefront at that school. And I was all about that, and I became very in tune with that.

C And I realized there's probably a reason for that, and I didn't wanna just become somebody that how renders shots for an architecture firm. And my mentor at the how who is the director of of SIARC now. He was my mentor for thesis, Hernan Diaz Alonso. And I and I told him, look, Hernan, I don't want how for my thesis. I didn't want to do typical plans and sections and make a model of it and how Stand there in front of a couple boards, and he said that, okay, so make your own reality. Make, make don't do a building, how Make multiple buildings and do an animation then. So I did. And one of his big how Big things.

C You know, in architecture school, you have Crits. Right? Yeah. And his big thing was, if you wanna be a big dog, you gotta play with the big dogs. Right? He was it sounded really cheesy. How For our jurors, he would invite, like, Frank Gehry, Tom Maine, Greg Lynn, You know, all of the biggest names in architecture at the time, and we would have to I mean, just the fact that we got to be in the same room as these people, stand in front of these people, like, they had to stare at us. You know, they were subjected to stare at us for, You know, 20 minutes, that was enough to make you feel like you could be in the same room than anybody. How

B You know? So wait. Are you telling me that you had a design pin up

C in school with Tom Maine? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. How And it's great because, you know, every time, like, I I don't really do urban projects, and he Really loves to talk about urban projects. So it's oh, and he ripped me apart on my thesis. It was so funny. It's not even that he ripped me apart. He set me up. He was the 1st person to ask a question on my thesis, and it set the tone and it totally screwed me over because he was like, Is this an intellectual project or an emotional project?

B You're like first off, this isn't even architecture, how Just to be clear. This is in my imagination.

C It was so funny because you see, like, it was like 12 jurors, all really how Respected in their own right, and Tom Maine starts it off as, is this an intellectual project or a emotional? And I was, like, emotional. Then I had nothing to say. You know? Like, they didn't know how to critique it.

B Right.

C Really interesting how to see and to reflect on.

B Yeah. And that is the starting point of, like, your career, really. I mean, even though I know I feel the same way when I look back at old stuff. I'm like, oh, but it it's so meaningful because it's like the, you know, building blocks of, like, what how propels you forward into the direction that you start going when you invest in stuff like that.

C Right.

B So In that regard, you shared with us that Alex McDowell played a really important role in helping you grow into your career in film, and he became your mentor and your advocate. And so why don't you tell us about when you first met him and then becoming his mentee and and pursuing a career that was directly related to a lot of the work he was doing.

C Right. So knowing that I really wanted to work with him after, I went to one of Saric's famous lectures that they have, and he happened to be there. This is, like, maybe, you know, a month after I graduated. And I went up to him and how Told him I was really interested in the work that he did. At that time, I was like, oh, I wanna become a production designer, not knowing, like, the the the new Avenue he had taken. And he kinda laughed. He said, oh, really? And, he said, well, send me your more your portfolio. How I sent him my portfolio, and he sent us, you know, really lovely, critical review on my on my thesis.

C And, I ended up, you know, within a week working for him. And it was interesting because, You know, looking back at it now, my first role with him was as a low end, I guess, how Concept artist. I really could never call myself a concept artist. But I was making these collages for him, and I was, like, You know, churning them out, spitting spitting them out because he he just wanted to see what these worlds that he was how Envisioning would look like. He even took me up to San Francisco on a trip because they were going to pitch this idea at a at how Headquarters of a of a company. And between the breaks of the meeting, he would come and tell me, you know, how Let's let's do a collage, you know, showing this. So so, like, I get 15 minutes to do a collage to, how You know, visualize these things that he wanted to share with the client, and it was really interesting. It pushed me to my my core.

C But I feel like I should probably go back to what he does now, which is not he's not working film anymore. How What he does now is that he speculates futures for companies to see where these Companies can start to take their their products and, the possible place that it can go. And he likes to do this how through one world building, but also with a narrative attached to it. Because he feels that storytelling is The most basic way that we can communicate as humans. And, it became quite a powerful and interesting Way to to realize all these things that I have learned at SCI Arc, how I can apply this to a field outside of architecture.

B World building. Can you I I think a lot of our listeners will know what that means, but can you it for those who may not know what that means.

C World building is, thinking about how All of the elements that make this certain thing possible. Right? Thinking about the culture, thinking about the language, thinking about the Science that creates that scene or sets. But I've seen it done so many different ways with each designer or approached how with so many different designers. Like Alex McDowell, he approaches designing how In a sense that the design is what builds narrative. It's what it's what guides the narrative. Right? How Take minority report, for example. Minority report, he was hired on the same day as a scriptwriter. And Steven wanted him to, you know, you have the book that it was based off of, which gave me these multiple parameters.

C But as far as the story goes and how they were going to depict that within the movie, that wasn't determined yet. So he started the same day as a script supervisor. He had these parameters, and, of course, they were guided by by, Spielberg. How But he got a group of scientists, you know, he calls them domain experts from, you know, MIT or wherever, how And started designing what the futuristic transportation be within a city. And then he came up with these autonomous vehicles that could go vertically and horizontally, and that in turn inspired how The chasing that happens within the movie.

A Wow. That's really cool.

C Right. So and also like Superman. How In the story of Man of Steel, originally, Superman gets his suit from, you know, his Earth parents as a baby. In Man of Steel, they shifted that and made it to where he got it from the planet that he's from. And Alex exposed this huge how flaw in that the suit has a big s. And in, you know, Kryptonian language, you know, what is Kryptonian language to justify having that s? So he hired on a language, expert, somebody who developed Kryptonian language, To rationalize why it has this s on it, you know, and that's his way of approaching, world building how and design in general. And then you have Rick Carter. It's more, narrative designs the how design.

C And he works very close with the director. And he he never becomes in love with the design in case how The he needs to change it for whatever vision the director needs the the story to go in and the design ultimately needs to go in. Mhmm. The designer that I'm working with right now, Andrew l Jones, he is a visual storyteller. Right? So he'll take, how You know, a set, figure out how to enrich those sets with world building. You know? If it's a college student's dorm, he's not gonna pick the finishes, bunk beds, and let Sedek do the rest. He's gonna really ask himself, how What are their needs? What are their daily activities? And let that dictate, you know, these you know, the way that this how That set gets set up and designed. And all their approaches are super valid, and and I hope to one day have An approach of my own.

B That's a really good point. No. I'm I I'm glad that you mentioned that because, I mean, I guess that's what we all aspire to do as designers is to figure out our our voice in this work.

C It took me all of architectural education to realize how All that I was ever being taught are different processes. You know? And then you need to find out which process works for you. And it's kind of like that. It's exactly like that.

A Right.

C So after doing that collage, that that project was maybe only, how You know, 3 weeks long. And from there, he kept bringing me on from project to project. And with each project, my role how Change, and I got to see all the ways that I can contribute to his definition of world building and all the projects that he got to do. How So anywhere from 3 d modeling to script writing, to taking clients out how dinner to you know, it was to being his secretary, it was really interesting to see what I was capable of. And it was kinda like this crash course.

A How No. But I think it's also, like, indicative of like, when you think about project managers too, right, and kind of all the things that they have to go between and how Everything. You have to have a a little bit of understanding of how each role is contributing to the bigger

C piece. So

A Completely. So for me, I think how It sounds like you are getting a lesson in, like, what all those different various different roles are and how it could build into into, like, one cohesive narrative or or how Or story or world, you know, and how that how that later transitions to to something else.

C Right.

A So so I can see how how Alex could do something, like, he's he's known for his work in Minority Report, but also on the flip side, be working with these companies, doing doing world building for them, you know.

B So it sounds like he was, like, you know, mentoring you and giving you exposure to all these different factors of film and roles. When was the point that you guys ended up going to London?

C I had heard that he was starting to take these meetings at the Disney headquarters in, Fairbank. And I kind of got wind of what he was gonna go do and where he was gonna go. And I told him that I wasn't done working with him. Right? How You say I I'd love to take you, but it's London and, you know, they're not gonna sponsor you to be over there so you, you know, how You would need a a passport. And he goes on to saying like, you know, you should really think about if you're really how Serious about going into film, you should just move to London. Right? And I told them, well, you know, what if I did have a passport? Which I do. How Well, then you're coming with me. So I went to London with him not knowing anybody.

C And how That's where I worked on Rise of Skywalker because they usually do all the the recent films in London. And I was a set designer. Basically, my how very first big job in the industry, and that lasted about 2 years.

A That's very cool. How Just because people are gonna be interested in, can you tell us maybe about 1 or 2 of the sets that you ended up doing for Rise of Skywalker?

C One set that I did was the imperial hangar, where Ray jumps onto the falcon at the end or at the edge of the of the hangar. And then 1 set that I set design set design for was how There's this in the death star. She's climbing up a, a column. And I

A was gonna say, that's a pretty precarious column.

C How Yeah. No. And it's actually what ended up on the poster. So the set that I set design for ended up how On the poster of the skywalker, the one where they're both dueling. Although the design was already kind of how sketched out before, it was just figuring out all the details of the builds and and really nailing down the look and the feel of it.

B So when you told Evelyn and I this the first time, we both immediately went back and rewatched Rise of Skywalker because we wanna go see the imperial hangar and look at it, and it's gorgeous. I mean, the shot is so pretty because the the floor is, like, reflective and there's these really how Gorgeous, like, tall lighting fixtures in the background, and they're reflecting off that floor, so it makes the space feel really powerful and how big and important, and and then, of course, you have the characters in the scene, the actors. I can imagine that that was a lot of fun trying to create that environment. Is there anything specific that you can share with us about what inspired the direction of that?

C The initial inspiration, and this is all driven by the fabulous production designer. It was actually co how designed by Rick Carter and Kevin Jenkins. But Kevin Jenkins had a little bit more to do with this particular set. And he was inspired by the hanger in Return of the Jedi, how You know, we're we're Palpatine has his, land a shuttle, and he's got his troopers around. And you have these really big kinda columns that are that are wrapping the the perimeter of the room. And then from there, it was funny because we were we were also how Taking that and doing a hybrid, kind of marrying up what they did with the hanger for Force Awakens, how I'm doing this hybrid. And and from there, like, it was funny because I was I was doing all these iterations, and then all these elements by themselves started becoming very Having this feminist nature, I guess. Like, the columns that are running around the perimeter of the room with, like you know, we started calling them kinky boots how Because it kinda just looked like they took high heels on them.

C And, the doorway in the corner of the room kind of how Looks like, you know, you know, reproductive part with details that look like fallopian tubes coming around it. So So that was interesting, like, how subconsciously maybe the fact that I'm a female kinda came through. I don't know. It was totally subconsciously. It was not intentional. It did get to a point where I was like, okay. Well, I have a lot of time with this. I might as well do 1 or 2 things that become intentional after I saw that pattern, but how It was, an interesting evolution to approach that set.

A For the most part, a lot the majority of the students that go into architecture how really want in whatever way it is, they would kinda wanna make their their mark on the world. They always kind of envision themselves coming out how as a designer. And I think in truth, like, so much of the work that we do only gets seen how Either in the pictures that show up because it's in a magazine or that it's won an award somewhere, and even then, only other architects are looking at architects' work how Or or or people are actually, like, it's it's well enough that people are actually it's a destination that calls people to come and visit and check it out. How You talked a little bit about, like, your joy and how quick iteration in film is, but I think film, as you said, because storytelling is such a powerful O'Toole. I almost think that film reaches so many more people. You know? In a way, you have the ability to influence a lot more people than how The average architect.

C Yeah. And that was a big part of of going into film is that I felt like it was more accessible than how Doing architecture. You know? Also, the fact that you just sit in a room and do bathroom details. You know? That that didn't how So I looked at it like people are more aware of or exposed to the house how in fight club, when there are other to that on the building. You know? And that showed me that there's so much more potential in how film to make any kind of statement or touch people or

A Or get emotion from people. Right?

C How Right. As well as having an influence on on culture itself. If you look at minority report how and what Alex did for that, you know, his holographic hand gesture interface. That inspired a company to actually how that. And you see a lot of people starting to think of the future integrating that kind of technology with it. And it's that's how That to me is so interesting that it has that kind of potential rather than doing a bathroom detail how with the building that ultimately MITRE might not be built 4 years from now.

A And what also was interesting to me in the story that you're saying was that the tools that you're using how are more so like, I feel like when we leave architecture school, we, like, learn Revit. I learned I went to Syrac. Right? I did the whole Maya. How 3 d printing wasn't quite a thing because I was a little older than you. But, like, I we learn all of these exciting tools in how School and their applications, and then we go into practice, and it's all CAD and Revit. Like, I feel like you've gotten to continue to use those tools how in your everyday world. So, like, how do you think talk to us about not only the tools that kind of translate into what you do everyday, but also any other skills Given that architectural background helps you do what you do today.

C Working within constraints and problem solving, I would say, is how is probably the biggest one. It really, I think constraints can also lead to better how Design because if somebody goes, you know, sky is the limit. That's the best way to cripple somebody, you know. And I believe that sometimes with with these parameters, with these constraints, you know, whether it be budgetary or whatever, a lot of these things wouldn't happen. These how These fortunate things, these happy accidents wouldn't or not even happy accidents, but, some designs wouldn't how come into place if it wasn't for them. And I was at SCI Arc, and they taught us how to do things like photogrammetry. It's kind of like whatever year in, elementary and you're taking a math course or even high school and taking a math course, and you're like, how will this ever helped me with my future turned out I feel like it's more applicable to film than it is for architecture because, You know, one of my very first assignments was to do photogrammetry on a miniature tree that how The sculpture had made so that we can take it into ZBrush and that we can manipulate it how the director wanted certain texture in certain places. So I found that to be all those skills that I had learned at SCI Arc are were almost more how applicable to film than they were to architecture.

C As well as I always told myself that I would never learn Revit. I I did end up learning Revit, but I never put that on my resume or ever let anybody know that I that I knew it because then you just become pigeonhole. Right? And how That just I always told myself growing up that the goal is to wake up Excited and happy to do what you do every day. And I've been lucky enough to be quite honest with myself, so I knew that Reddit didn't make me happy.

B I'm really glad you shared that because I had the opposite experience. I thought, okay. They want us to know AutoCAD. They want us to know Revit. I was oblivious to the things that made me happy for a while, and I learned those programs thinking these are hireable skills. So if I learn these, then I'll get a job. And, of course, you know, it was in the recession, so it was of that time when everybody was desperate to get a job. But honestly, it really didn't make me happy.

B Like, I didn't I don't like working in Revit. I just don't. I don't like that kind of drafting tediousness. It's it's not stimulating to me. And so I just find it really refreshing that you knew out of the gate that you you were looking for things that made you happy because not everyone knows how to do that. It took me a long time to understand that and to come to terms with that for myself, and that's how why I ended up meandering off my own path from architecture, but sounds like you were you already knew that about your journey early on.

C Yeah. It was great to go on my journey and take these skills, you know, the ones that I really liked. And I didn't know that I was going into film whenever I was going through architecture. But in the end, realizing that all of these Tools and software and even the work ethic that I had gained from architecture how it really applied to to working in film.

B So how has working in film made you look at architecture differently?

C Helene. I haven't been in film long enough, but one big thing that I see, You know, my friends that are art directors going through is, you know, you see usually on a, you know, shows how or films. You use locations. Like, a big part of an art director's job or a designer's job are is using locations to transform As a set. Right? If you watched the last Westworlds and you see City Science or you see Beaufils' how Studio is is architecture firm, and they transform it into, you know, an office or a house how Or a lot of stuff is, period pieces, so you take backdrops of LA and how Integrate these elements to make it, like, 19 thirties. And it makes you look at the world or the built environments a little bit more malleable. And It's a really interesting thing because then you start to look at all these details. Right? Oh, those mullions are made out of wood.

C That means it must have been, You know, 19 forties or, you know, you become hyper focused and more aware of the background and the context how of of the built environments around you, but also all the potential that can be, which is exciting. It's exciting when you when you walk on the street. I have been, in a different sense, not exposed to that as much because I've worked on how Projects that you build from the ground up rather than altering locations to fit the set.

A How You know, architects even even the older leaders, like, architects wanna be considered the master builders, but I feel like We've gotten so far away from actually being craftsmen, and at some point, because of the type of work that you're doing, because how Because you don't have to go through the same building department, like like, you are you are crafting things, and you're much like, how What you're bringing together is so much more hands on, and I I feel like what you're doing at a smaller scale is, like, what architects wish they were able to do how with our clients every day.

C It's so interesting. It's so interesting to working with the construction team and the, prop makers of as they call them because how The craftsmanship that I get to experience every day. And seeing, like, you know, these little tips how that they've that they learned along in their trade, in their in their journey, and the visual output that comes about all of this. And it's I don't know. It's just I call it magic. Every time, like, the designer on the show that I'm working on right now sends me a picture and is like, wow, this is a really nice how of the set and, like, yep. And I'll, you know, say that certain prop makers may and say, you know, they gave they put their magic on it. And it's It's really interesting to to experience that every day and to understand how things come together.

A So if somebody's interested in pursuing a similar path that you've done. If I if I'm in my 4th or 5th year at architecture school, what what advice would you give to somebody coming out of school how interested in following in your footsteps.

C I mean, first, be honest with yourself. Figure out what interests how you. And if that is film and entertainment, then that's great. You know, Hernan had had all sat us down how told us to find somebody that you admire and research their path and see what it took them. Look at the different types of Roles within the film industry, you know, whether that be VFX, within the art departments, or even Sculpting, whatever it might be, and then search the research on people that have taken that similar path And people that you might wanna work with. And I would say put together a portfolio that you think shows all the skills that how might be applicable to that certain field. You know? Be bold. Be brave.

C It sounds cheesy, but with high risk comes high reward.

A It was interesting for me that we started this conversation about architecture and and how somebody who has clearly stepped off of the traditional path so early in her career, but she also is how So I think intrinsically, deeply connected back to architecture in a way, which I thought was a unique a perspective that somebody who's gone on the Architecture On path made, like, their connection back to practice.

B Right. I really enjoyed talking to Rebecca because I just love that she's she always knew that she wanted to do something different. And what was very compelling in hearing her story was that she never how Let the constraints of architecture and what the career in becoming an architect, how is, like, define her path. She always knew that she was going to be pursuing a path that was a little bit different, and, I think she leaned into it really clearly. And what I like I mean, we always knew in this season that we wanted to talk about what it looked like when you, take an education in architecture and apply it into doing something a little bit adjacent to what how traditional architecture is. And I think Rebecca is a really great example. Her career definitely illustrates using an architectural education and expanding that idea of architecture and versus walking away from it entirely.

A Yeah. And it was kind of astonishing to me that Even after her experience, she still went on to get her m arc at SI Arc even though I feel in between her b arc and her m arc, how She made this conclusion that the traditional path was not where she wanted to go. But then she used her education at SCI Arc, and and, you know, sit through some product from Hernan, was able to come out with a portfolio that actually positioned her For the next steps with with Alex and, this I idea of world building, right, which how I came out of SIRAC too, and I my portfolio, I don't think, could could have spoken to that or positioned me so well for that, but, how That she was able to even leverage her time in school to begin to craft that alternative path that was really unique for me. How I agree.

B I think that's a really important lesson that if especially for any of our listeners that might still be in school. Like, if there's something that you wanna do, Use your education to explore it. You know? Learn while you're in school and try to research it as much as you can so you how you can expand your viewpoint into that world.

A Yeah. Another attribute that I really appreciate and I find really refreshing from Rebecca, how Especially as a female is that I feel like she's such a hustler when it comes to her career. Right? She approached Alex wasn't even talking, but she knew enough how To know who she wanted to work with in the industry and to go up to Alex, who was who was listening as a, you know, a standard like, a how A bystander, by all means, and say, I wanna work with you. I read this article about you, and and to get her final thesis in front of him as a how of that meeting. And then, you know, when Alex, you know, was ready to say, I appreciate all the work you've done for me, But my path is taking me to London, kind of her wherewithal and her, like, never giving up her constant hustle of, Well, I'm not done working with you, and I have a passport. So I'm going with you to London. I really appreciated that type of hustle how Coming out of not only somebody from architecture, but, like, from from a female perspective.

B How Definitely. I mean I think she is a very strong individual and it was very clear in listening to her that that she how goes after her goals. But even more so, I think it speaks to this idea of the value of mentorship and the the value of having someone that's really in your corner and sees the potential in what you're capable of. Like, for him to understand that her training in architecture how Could so easily adapt to the work that they were doing and enhance even she talked about collage making and, you know, starting to, like, how to quickly craft these ideas heading into meetings. I mean, he really saw the value in that, and and I think it's how it's really cool to hear a success story about someone who took someone right out of school and helped them grow into their career to become so successful.

A Yeah. I I mean, for me, I guess, one of the biggest takeaways then from hearing Rebecca's story is for our listener is we've talked a lot about entrepreneurship in general. Right? Like, the the idea that we hope architects think more entrepreneurially about their business practice, their operations, their how marketing, business development, the the types of services they're offering. For me, Rebecca was a a great how Case study and how to be more entrepreneurial about your career and really treat your career how as your own sole proprietor business and do what you need to do to expand it, and to make it your own and to turn it into something that you love to how get up and go to work for every day. A lot there's been some interesting surveys, coming out about the people that are happiest in their career now. And when you look at, how they got to the role that they are how In Now, a lot of them have said that they've essentially created their role for them. Like, their their role was actually created for them at the organization how they work with. In many ways, I feel like Rebecca, even though she's kind of fallen she's found this unique career path in entertainment, and there is kind of a career Hatter that she talked us through about the entertainment industry, that like, the roles that she had leading into that were all created for her because she was very how She hustled and she got her like, she got in front of the right people at the right time and was also prepared to share with them kind of her skills.

B Yeah. And I wanna expand on that because when we say entrepreneurial in this context, when we're talking about a career, we don't necessarily mean it in the going to start your own business sense. What we're talking about is about, again, this fearlessness, this mentality towards risk taking. Essentially, like, a willingness to look for other alternative options out there. And, Rebecca, I guess, she just it resonates so much with me, and I know you too, Evelyn, that she's just someone that doesn't let the rules define her path, and I can say from personal experience that when I have allowed the path to define my my trajectory, It's been the hardest on me as an individual. But when I listen to myself, and I heard Rebecca say this also when she's listened to herself and followed that inner voice that tells you, like, where you feel like you're supposed to be going and then you pursue it. I promise it just really it it it's a freeing experience, and it and it leads you to the place that you're meant to go.

A How Yeah. We're asking our listeners then to adopt the mindset of an entrepreneur as related to your how Career and on personal development.

B Exactly.

A The other last takeaway too for me is that I think Rebecca, when she started on her career path, she had and she still has a deep love and appreciation for what architecture as an art is able to do and how how space creates presence and creates feelings and how it resonates how and impacts people's lives. And, you know, there's people that would argue that I you know, in spite of my license, what I do. I'm not an architect. I think there is people that would equally argue that what Rebecca is doing doesn't make her an architect. How But her argument that what she does, like, on a daily basis touches more of the public Then the buildings that the star architects build that most people only see in magazines, I think that really resonated with me. And how For me, she is actually making a much bigger impact in non star architect fashion by what how she she's doing and how she's delivering and and the people that see her work. So I would also say that even as how Even if you find yourself away from the traditional path, it doesn't have to be for lack of love how For what brought you originally to architecture, that there are paths out there for those who love the profession and love that feeling of change that new graduates have When you come and graduate into the world, there is the ability to create that change in different scales and on other formats out there for you.

B I so wholeheartedly agree, Evelyn, and I think you and I just wanted to send a little love letter out to anyone out there who feels like, they fit into that category because, we do too, and we we think that the profession should be bigger and not exclude people. So on that note, Evelyn, next week is our season finale.

A Yeah. Next week, listeners, is our season finale, so how Please feel free to tune in. It's it's gonna be of a little bit of a different format. It's what we're doing is called an AMA or an ask me anything, which is actually pretty common in the tech world, but less common in the architecture world. I feel like there's a few architecture firms that are doing at least what they're called office hours now where anyone can ask them how The leadership, anything. So, anyways, tune in for our season finale next week where we respond to questions solicited to us by our listeners. And if you have a question for us and it doesn't matter what topic it is, it is called ask me anything. Please feel free to email me directly at evelyn@practiceofarchitecture.com.

A It's evelyn@practiceofarchitecture, all one word, .com.

B See you next week.

A See you next week. Thanks for joining us how Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Visit us at practice disrupted.com to find out more about future episodes and the changing nature of practice. This show is part of the Gable Media Podcast Network. You can learn more about other podcasts in our community by visiting how gablmedia.com. If you enjoy the show and want to hear more content like this, you can help us by leaving a rating, review, and subscribing on your favorite podcast app. Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to let us know what other topics or speakers you're interested in hearing about. Thanks for listening, and see you next