Designing a Technology-First Architecture Practice

A I'm Evelyn Lee.

B And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

B Welcome to Practice disrupted.

A Hi, listeners. Hi, Janine.

B Hi, listeners. Hi, Evelyn.

A How So we are going back to architectural practice this week to talk to a fellow AIA board member of mine and friend, Jessica Sheridan, AIA, about a firm where she's principal at called Mancini Duffy. And one of the reasons why I was so interested in bringing Jessica on was because of how forward thinking the firm is, especially given the firm's long history and its size. So Mancini is over a 100 years old, and I feel they are putting to practice some of the things that architects maybe talk about wanting to put to practice, But always say it's too expensive or their clients wouldn't be willing to pay for additional services such as VR.

B So Mancini Duffy traces its roots back to 1915 when the firm was founded in New York City, and they are a full service design firms specializing in architecture, planning, and interior design. With offices in New York City and New Jersey, the practice complements its century of expertise with a contemporary entrepreneurial spirit and technological skill for clients in the commercial, education, financial and professional services, retail, sports, and tech and media sectors. How Jessica Sheridan, who we're interviewing, is a principal at Mancini, and she has over 18 years of experience in architecture and interiors and actually as an editor. I don't

A know if she'll talk about that, but she has a unique background coming to architecture as well. Jessica leads a studio focused on a broad range of project types From building retrofits to temporary pop up event spaces and workplace interiors. She thrives on complex projects that are sustainable and resilient. And she has previously held positions on both the AIA New York and the AIA New York state boards, as well as the AIA National Strategic Council and currently serves as an at large director on the AIA National Board. Let's cut to the interview.

C So I decided I wanted to be an architect when I was, how 10 years old. I used to draw the houses that we stayed in whenever my family went on vacation. And when I was in college, I I studied visual arts, and and everything that I did went back to architecture, which I thought was was a good sign before I went to architecture school. After I graduated from college, I worked in marketing for architecture, so I wanted to see how What it was like to work in a firm before I, you know, took the leap and actually went to school for architecture. So I did that for a couple of years at Perkins Eastman. And I also I learned AutoCAD by helping the IT guys with motherboards. So I I would, like they would scan in how The motherboards, and then I would trace over them in AutoCAD, so that's how I learned AutoCAD because they wouldn't let me work on architecture projects because I didn't have a degree. So then I went to RISD for architecture school, and after that, I've had a series of different types of jobs.

C I worked for a really small 5 person firm called Martin Rich Architects. I then went to a bigger firm that was about 35 or so people, Helpern Architects. Then I jumped to Gensler, which, as many people know, is one of the biggest firms. And about 4 years ago, I was looking for a different opportunity. I want I really wanted to work for a firm that had a unique vision that more aligned with with my kind of way that I define architecture, and and that's how I landed at Mindsini Duffy.

A Yeah. And I I don't know how familiar our listeners are of Nancy Mui definitely, but what really attracted me to this conversation, how Other than you being a fellow AIA board member, was the history of Mancini Duffy in terms it's it's how been around for quite some time, yet it's doing some really I don't know if it's revolutionary, but it's how things that I think other architecture firms tend to talk about doing a lot without actually doing it, if that makes sense.

C Yeah. We're very proud of that, actually. So how So Mancini Duffy is one of the few firms that is more than a 100 years old. We were incorporated in 1929.

A That's crazy.

C Yeah. So because of that, what's unique about it is that we are grandfathered into this regulation where we don't need to have a majority ownership that are architects that are licensed architects. So even though we're how Rooted in this traditional architecture where back when we were Halsey McCormack and Helmer, which is our parent company, We did a lot of the bank buildings that, you know, like the Williamsburg Savings Bank and and that type of thing in New York. But how What it really does for us now is that it opens up the possibilities of of ownership in our firm, and it gives opportunities to how Emerging architects. It gives opportunities to people that operate a little bit outside of what the traditional path is how In order to take the lead within our firm, and and that sort of sets the stage for how we think about things in terms of architecture practice.

B Interesting. I'm interested to know more about that. Can you expand on, like, especially the leadership ownership piece, like, what that looks like.

C Sure. A few years ago, Christian Giordano, who's our current president, how was put in the position to take over, majority ownership of the firm. Along with that came how Several other partners. We now have 5 partners. And we've now gone through the full cycle where we have the next generation leading our firm, how And the last generation has retired. So when Christian took the reins, he really made it his mission to think about All of his past experiences in architecture firms and everything that could possibly hold us back from moving forward and how I I wanna have a firm that is totally different that, you know, doesn't hold us back from progress. So there's an entrepreneurial spirit about us. There's a push to empower everybody to contribute to every aspect.

C There is a feeling that we shouldn't be siloed into, okay, you're a project designer or you're a project architect, and so, therefore, that's all you do. And we wanted it to be a place where we could experiment, try new things, maybe fail, find clients that are willing to come along with us, And really embrace the messiness of architecture, which I think a lot of firms don't do because we get caught up a lot or traditional firms really get caught up in the presentation aspect of things and having things very perfect and all of the loose ends tied up before you show it to anyone. We really wanted it to be, no. Let's bring everybody along with us. Architecture is messy. Buildings things always go wrong. Things always happen that are unexpected, and that's okay, hey, and let's embrace that and make that part of our whole entire process within the firm. Another aspect of it that really attracted me to the firm Was a focus on work life balance for I I hate using that term because it's it's kind of antiquated at this point, but, how When I was interviewing for the job, Christian talked about wanting to have a firm that was really open and welcoming to young mothers.

C And I'm not a mother, but the fact that he said that really swayed me to join the firm because if that's what they're thinking about and and they're trying to think about How can everyone in the firm do their best work, but not feel this pressure to stay late all the time, to be forced how into these tight deadlines that are just unachievable without the stresses and the strains and and all of the negative things that come with it that firms are known for. And I find that really important in our firm, and we really try to, you know, live by that.

A I think that's Incredibly important, especially now, you know, and the and what pandemic has done to women in the workforce. Right? There's, how The word she she she session she session is getting thrown around. You know, we've lost over 2,000,000 how women out of the workforce just this past year because of their need to wear multiple hats at home, ultimately, how and kind of the the gender roles that play into that. I mean, the other interesting thing for me about Mancini Duffy is that, Literally, on your website, you identify as a technology first design firm. And I think I know a lot of firms that how identify as a design first design firm. I know a lot of firms identify as, like, we will deliver your I I don't wanna call it production, but, like, you know, their their focus is project management on time, on schedule, under budget. So talk to us about what it means to be a technology first design firm. How

C Sure. The similar to what I was just saying, it's really a call to action for everyone to be thinking outside of the box about how to how Create efficiencies in the work that we're doing. So one way that we do this is by high using technology and and using technology a little bit differently than what's traditional. So One thing that we talk about a lot is why do we have these enormous construction document sets that waste all of this paper that just sit there and it doesn't really do much of anything? How Another thing, why do we spend so much time putting together these beautiful InDesign presentations when we really should be spending that time how Designing the project and not designing the presentation. So every step of the way, when we're doing something, we're trying to reinforce that how There could be a better way of doing something, and and it's okay to try doing something differently to see if we can get there faster. How And, not just faster, but faster to allow us the time to do the work that we really wanna be doing, which is the design, which is engaging with our Clients, which is talking to people who are on the project and figuring out the best way to get to the finish line.

A How When I went and I visited you in your office, one of the first things you pass by is this research and development design lab. Can you tell us a little bit more about how What Mancini is doing there, because I had the opportunity to, you know, walk through a kitchen that hadn't been built yet and begin to move things around if I wanted how So tell us a little bit about what you're doing in the design lab.

C Yeah. So one of the ways that we bring clients into the design process with us how in our design lab. Our our design lab is sort of our research and development lab in in the firm. We've got 3 d printers. We've got a VR lab. A lot of things that a lot of how firms have. We're developing apps. What's a little bit unique is that we have 2 software developers on staff that have an architecture background, so they don't come from the tech world.

C How architecture, but they do software development. And one thing that we've developed that is called this tool belt in VR. So What you're talking about, Evelyn, is is and one thing that I think is really useful for VR is we have a partnership with a chain of restaurants. We have their kitchen set up for them, and the hedge chef pretends to cook. So he sits there and he's like, you know what? The stove is in the wrong place because I'm trying to move my how hot and the pot is hitting the wall, and that shelf is really in my eye view of my line chef, and I can't, you know, we need to move the shelf, and due to the fact that he can really redesign the kitchen and tailor it to exactly how he needs how a little bit better than you would on a floor plan or been looking at our rendering. It's really difficult to anticipate some of those things, in in, you know, real time. So this way, we can we can set up the kitchen exactly to how he likes to cook, exactly how his staff likes to be, engaged with him. And then when it's built, it's it's a lot more efficient, and it's a lot better and suited for exactly what he needs it to be.

C So I think that that's a really scalable use of VR. It doesn't necessarily have to be 1 person in a kitchen. It can be anything from figuring out entire master plan to a food truck.

B That's exciting. How did those initial conversations go for you guys when you started thinking about adopting this into your practice. Was there someone that was, like, championing it, or was there someone who had experience with it?

C We have, one of our principals in the firm, Michael Kipfer, heads our design lab, and it was originally his idea. But his idea was, how How do we have everybody in the firm start to think about it? When when everyone graduates from architecture school, they're much more in tune with different ways that that technology can interact how with each other, what new programs are out there. I think that, you know, old school architects get stuck in, like, okay. We know this one program, and this is how we do the 1 thing that we know how to do. And when you're new and you don't know how to do anything, it's great because you can say, you know what? I can use this thing over here and that thing over there, and they how Talk to each other, and, actually, that makes a lot more sense. And so, for us, it was about kind of democratizing the process and not saying no when you start. You have how start with a door schedule and learn how to do door hardware, and then you can work your way up. We we wanted to explode all of that how and really encourage everybody to say, you know what? There's this thing over here.

C I don't know how it really works, but I think it could really be helpful, and then allow them the space and the time to develop that. So as that grew and as we started to crystallize exactly what things we felt more generally would would help us, how We that's when we started to think we really need to bring on a software engineer to develop some of the software or at least figure out the plug ins that are needed to make the softwares how Talk to each other, that kind of thing. So it was really driven by the brain trust of the firm.

B Yeah. That's really cool. And has it been easy to integrate into some of your project work? Like, have you been able to leverage this technology?

C How We integrate it in some way or another on every single project that we're working on right now. And, you know, back to what I was saying about InDesign presentations and all of that. We kind of said, you know, okay, when you have a presentation about a des a design, for example, how You go to the client. You have maybe 3 options figured out. You have it all worked out. It's in your InDesign file. You have the conversation. How They choose 1 option, so that's, like, you know, 30% kind of right and and, you know, with tweaks.

C So you go away for a week. The client has no idea what you're doing. You come back a week later, and you have 2 different options that are a variation of that 1 option that they liked, and, You know, it takes forever to get to the decision. If you can come to a meeting with several options already kind of built into your VR model, Put them on a headset in a headset and say, okay. Here's your tools. You can move things around. You can change the carpet over here. You can push this button, and something will change.

C How What do you think? You can come to an agreed upon design so much faster without all of that extra time. How I've used it in a project, for example, where we've had 20 people in the room, all different stakeholders from marketing people to operations to facilities and whatever, And they're all watching us move things here and there and saying, no. No. No. It would make more sense for that to go there. No. It would make more sense for that to go there. And we are moving things in the Revit model that are being rendered in Lumion that they can see, and then they're engaging with it themselves as well.

C How And so by the end of the meeting, everyone, even when they came in, determined that, no, my idea of where this thing goes there. By the end of the meeting, they all agreed, oh, yeah, that probably wasn't the best idea. And so it's a way to bring everybody to a consensus and really how help them visualize it. I mean, so many people don't know how to read a floor plan. Even renderings are really hard to understand the scale of something and how big or small something is. And so this this isn't a 100% great. You know, it's not the ideal, but it's it's a lot closer than anything else that we've done.

A How I mean, what's unique about that is I talk to a lot of architecture firms, and the technology group becomes, like, that thing that we do when how the client's willing to pay a little bit extra to use the technology. So I think the fact that it's kind of integrated into every project and that you've how found the cost savings that kind of gives gives yourself permission to to integrate it into every project is is really how It's something that I would hope more architects would consider going forward, and I think it actually we always talk about how People undervaluing the work that we do. I think it kind of brings our clients closer to the work, and to the architecture, Sure. And to like, understanding what we're doing when we're we go back to the office.

C Yeah. I mean, it's exciting. It's dynamic, and it's how not polished, and so it's accessible, and it's fun at the end of the day. I mean, who doesn't like playing around in VR and pushing buttons and changing things? You know? Like, everybody gets excited about it. And so it's a really great way to have everyone kind of understand the excitement that we have about designing things to begin with because we find it fun, but, you know, no one else really gets a window into that part of it.

A And I think, you know, the VR is great, but it's also just one aspect how of the design lab. You mentioned at the top of the conversation about how you guys are always trying to find efficiencies. So do you have other case studies where, like, kind of how That grew out of the design lab.

C One other project that we've done, recently is is to design a donor wall at a school. It's a STEM school in Long Island, And we were struggling trying to figure out, for anyone who's designed donor walls, that the names are always changing. How They're always growing. You know, things get modified, and it it's like this ever going ongoing thing. But at the end of the day, the how Signage vendors have to take a lot of time in order to, create those signs and create those walls, and it's very expensive and it's very time how and by the time it's completed, something has changed. So we came up with a way to develop how To 3 d print letters with our 3 d printers. And with the letters themselves, we designed the ANSI letter. So where the letter gets attached to the wall, we have these holes in the wall that are uniquely, You know, in a pattern so that letter itself can only fit it.

C So an a can only fit in the a holes, and the b can only fit in the b holes, you know, that kind of thing. And at the end of the day, what we did was we brought our 3 d printers over to the school. We had the students three d printing the letters and installing the wall itself. How We had already pre kind of drilled the holes on the wall, and then the students got to print and install the letters themselves. So how We, 1, saved a lot of money in doing this because, 1, it was it was an experiment for us, and we asked the client if they'd be willing to work with us on it. And when we did the calculation of of how and effort and hours and all of that. It it ended up saving a lot of money rather than going to a signage vendor. It helped with the installation because we we were engaging with how Students.

C The school loved it because their students were learning about these things. And at the end of the day, it was a much easier and faster deliverable. How

B Yeah. That would be a really fun exercise if you were the student in that class. I mean, you're getting to experience architecture. You feel a buy in to the process, like, of creating something, and then you guys created this, like, really cool puzzle that they basically get to solve by building it.

D How

B That sounds like a really fun way to work with students.

A You know, and the bigger takeaway here is that how You guys are open to play and to experiment. You're not afraid to ask your clients to experiment. It was funny because Janine and I had just gotten off of a conversation earlier, how we were talking about kind of the formality of the older generation and how how How, as architects, we always seem to want to present a certain way, and that usually means that we're bringing Mhmm. We're bringing things to a certain conclusion before we show them to a client.

C There's always that skepticism by them about how, no, we haven't talked how yet. Why do you know why are you coming with the answer already?

A Right.

C Which they're right. You know? We don't always have the right answer.

A How Right. I mean, it's twofold. Like, I think it's an attitude that you guys have created within the firm, but it's also driven into your culture and your values by saying, like, these are the the the type of relationships that we want to have with the client. So I I imagine that those are the type of clients that you at Guys also how tend to to seek out when you're looking at, like, projects and who you wanna pursue.

C Yeah. Definitely. We we don't organize the firm in a way that it's how based on market sector or we only do this type of project. It's much more about let's find the right clients that are the best fit for us. And from that, we could figure out how to do anything. You know? We don't need to be an expert in every single type of project in order to do those types of projects.

B So how do you guys develop people in house? Like, I'm sure there's a wide range of interests and a lot of people working in different current parts of the company and collaborating. What does that people development piece look like?

C Yeah. Like I said earlier, we try not to have people defined by whether they're a designer or project architect or anything like that. We kind of understand that everyone how has their own view of their own career, and it could be a little bit of both. It could be more of one thing and more of another thing, or it could be one thing today and then, okay, I tried that how while, but I really wanna try this other thing. And so we have a pretty elaborate network of mentors and mentees within our firm, how And it's very grassroots organized as well. So every person has 2 people that they meet with, and we encourage it on a regular basis. We don't really how schedules, but more than a once a year review, we try to have people meet pretty regularly, whether it's quarterly or monthly or whatever, around their own personal goals. So if somebody wants to develop more, expertise on or something like that, then we try to team them up with the people that are really good at that to help them get that that knowledge and and information.

C And then once how that's over, if they wanna do something else, then we can switch things around and move things around. We also do it in the opposite way where we have, For example, I had a couple of people who I work with regularly that I manage evaluating me. So I'll meet with them and, you know, try to how with them and make sure that what I'm doing or what I'm trying to do in terms of, you know, my mentoring them is actually working. And so we try to help people develop their careers that way, and, of course, if they wanna get licensed, we work with them on how getting their experience, if they want to be involved in organizations outside of the company, we support that as much as possible, All of those things.

D Mhmm. I

B think a mistake is when mentorship becomes one way conversations. How It's much more organic than that. In my work on mentorship, I've found that it requires two way communication and also, like, multiple mentors. Like so sometimes you're you're receiving for example, like, Evelyn, you mentor me about some specific things in my own career, but when I need other things, I might be talking to someone else. And so it's not ever just like a a static one to one relationship. It's always a kinda how evolving and, like I said, dynamic or organic evolution of communication.

C Yeah. The firm is separated into how for studios, and I I use studios in in quotes because it's a little bit looser than than that, as you might imagine. But, But yeah. And we all got together, and we did an exercise where we each wrote on Post it notes, in well, actually, on a Miro board on Post it notes, because We're all digital. What everyone's strength is.

A Like, what everyone else's strength is or what your own strengths were?

C No. What what we felt others' how Strengths were. And then when you took a look at it, it was a really interesting cross section of, you know, some things are obvious, like, yeah, I'm really good at those things, how And that makes sense that I'm really good at those things, and and other people see that too. But then it was also a really great way to say, oh, I never really thought about my strength in this way, And that's really useful for me when I'm crafting my own career. Another way to look at it is, oh, well, they didn't notice that I'm really good at these things. How come they didn't notice that. So we are using that to feed into those individual reviews, And we're also thinking about it at a high level from a management perspective about, okay, when we're hiring people, where are the gaps? We we know we have a lot of people that are really good at these things, and we have a lot of people that are really good at these things, but not so many people that are good at these things. And so how can we start to fill in That way, instead of, okay, we have a new project, and we need a a project architect.

B Given that you guys are all a younger new group coming in as principals and leading this firm. It sounds like you're implementing a lot of newer business ideas into the into practice. So Hactus. So what has your experience been, or what can you share about transitioning into that next gen leadership group that's kind of learning how to lead together and implementing a lot of these new ideas across your studio.

C How It's a good question. I I think that there's no specific answer other than it has to do with the attitude of it being okay how to try things that you've never tried before. It's okay to come to the table no matter who you are with some crazy idea, and we'll how Try it. You know? Who knows? And I I do think that is that next generation of of leadership. You know? People people don't wanna wait Their turn. They don't want to spend the years and all of the things working their way up a hierarchy. How They want access to it now. You know? I mean, it's it's exactly how our clients are too.

C Like, we don't wanna wait a year for you to finish this design. We want it now. Mhmm. So, you know, I I think that there is a way that we can start to think about business practices in that way too. You know? How how How do we start to yes. This is the way that it's always been done in the past. This is what the books tell you to do, but There are so many other types of practices out there, types of businesses out there that are doing things differently and in a new way. Like, why can't we do it that way too.

C So that's kind of the attitude, I think.

A It's interesting because you're talking about new business ideas and new structures, and you guys have found even they're not necessarily not small, ways to be continue to evolve the services that you are offering. So, MDLX, I found, was a relatively new offering that I saw on your website. I don't know how how new it truly is, but can you at least tell us a little bit about that.

C Sure. It's about, I believe, 3 years or so. Okay. But, yeah, It is a separate company that's associated with Nancy Kniedefi that's focused on decor and, those finishing touches. And the concept behind it was to, you know, a lot of a lot of organizations and, you know, corporate how Companies will hire other firms to do those finishing touches, like select artwork or pillows and, you know, or frame them and that kind of thing, and we always wondered why we couldn't be more involved in it. And, additionally, how Having the opportunity to be able to procure things, which is unique to its own this is why we needed to set it up as a as a how business is supposed to be part of us. We are able to have a procurement arm that can, you know, add a markup and and all of those things like a like a core group would. But part of the goal behind it is also to be able to work with other architecture firms and consult with them on these things as well how So we can, partner.

C Same thing with our design lab too. You know, we are open to partnerships and collaborations with other firms, and how We sort of know that a lot of firms don't necessarily want to hire another architecture firm in order to do work, you know, like that. But But if we have a separate arm, we have that autonomy to be able to operate separately and it not compete or conflict with other architecture firms as well. How

A I think that's also just a refreshing attitude. I mean, last last season, we brought on Jam and the notion of kind of, like, shared how shared staff for greater Mhmm. Like, projects procurement. I think this notion that the future of architecture how is supposed to be a lot more collaborative, even between firms. Whatever way possible, I think is a healthier way to approach things rather than, like, constant competitive nature of things.

C Yeah. And I really enjoy it too because it's it's a little bit more hands on at the end of our project than just doing a punch list. So I I worked on a hotel for a group that was very iophilic in its goals. Mhmm. And We were sitting there after work, binding together dried flowers in a special little package in a way to, like, present it as, you know, a welcoming how Offering to hotel guests, and when do architects ever get to actually do that? And so it was this extra connection to how People who are going to be engaging with your space that you don't normally get. So I I love it.

D I think it's really fun.

B And one of those ways that you guys are doing it differently is that you also took a strong stance on returning to the office during the pandemic. Can you tell us more about that? And also, I mean, you're in New York cities, so it's pretty significant.

C Yes. So back in June of last year in New York, that's when construction was able how go back into operation. So when that happened, obviously, that was just a couple of months after COVID, we felt really strongly that that was going to be part of the move to reopening workplaces. And it's around the time that we were starting to get a lot of questions from our clients how That you know, we do a lot of workplace interiors asking us what's next. I mean, everyone was having that conversation at that time, like, you know, now that we've worked from home how months we now know, you know, and now here we are, like, you know, a year later, and we're still talking about that and, you know, we now know. And we felt that it was really important, one, that job sites were reopening, that we were able to, provide the resources for people that needed to be how on top sites and and all of that. We wanted to start experimenting again with, okay, if our clients are asking us what our best practice is, we really should be, you know, walking how the walk, not just, you know, talking about, oh, the future is this or the future is that without actually trying it. And so We, you know, developed a check-in app so we could track everything, make sure that we, you know, are following all of the protocols.

C We how different floor plans of our office to see how we could spread out. We have a pretty generous work Station, so it actually worked out pretty well where we tried alternating, days of the week so different studios would come in at different, you know, different days. And throughout this process, each each step of the way, we've learned something different that has really helped us have those conversations with our clients when they're trying to put together their back to work plans. One thing that we're thinking about at the moment is, how You

D know, the days

C of the week thing is sort of arbitrary and not really tailored to how people work. And so we sent out a survey recently how about, you know okay. When now that you've come back to the office for the last few months on certain days and certain not days, where are you most productive doing these various types of things? How And it ranged from heads down work to collaborating with your team to doing client presentations, all of those things. And we're sort of looking through it, and and what we're seeing is that everybody's a little bit different. I actually do better heads down work in the office because I'm not how distracted by, like, my cat and the refrigerator and, like, all of the things that are happening. Like, I have there's this great cardinal that's on the tree outside of my window, And, you know, I'm not distracted by those things when I'm in the office. I'm very much focused on those things there. Also, other people just have other distractions, and how I can collaborate better with certain teams over, you know, various different platforms that we're all communicating on.

C But other teams, it's it's more difficult because depending on the individual, if you're more introverted, it's really hard to communicate over a video call how In a way that's useful, it's a lot better when you're in person, you know, those types of things. So I think the answer is really a lot more nuanced, how And I

D don't think we would have

C gotten there, or as far as we are, I I wouldn't say that we have the answer quite yet, but I think we're a lot closer than we would have if we hadn't been trying it ourselves.

B How It's really funny because just, like, earlier this week, I was talking to my dad, and he was he was saying, yeah. Everyone needs to go back into the office how because I work best when I'm in the office, and therefore, everybody does. And I was like, no, dad. That's not how it works. Everybody's different. Everybody has different, you know, experiences and needs. And, yeah, I'm really glad you're validating that because it's true. I think there's a lot of variety, and it takes a lot of different, approaches to to satisfy a team.

B Yeah.

C And, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, Mancini is a really social place, And so, you know, I really miss other people. Like, I really we have a great terrace that overlooks lower Manhattan. We've got, you know, beer taps in our pantry. Like Like, I miss those times where we're all coming together and those, like, firm wide Zoom calls aren't exactly the same. We we have some ways that we've we've worked at how Trying to maintain our firm culture and those connections. But, you know, at the end of the day, I I really would love for us to all be back in the office again a 100%. How But, yeah, to your point, I completely acknowledge that some people are loving this time to have time at home, and and they're really becoming, you know, more aware of productivity and and they're in tune in into what is working and what isn't working for them.

C And And it's really important that we're paying attention to that and acknowledging it and and writing it down now because in a few months from now, if we're all back in the office, it it's gonna get forgotten.

A So for a firm that's kind of constantly looking forward and constantly anticipating what's next, can you talk to us a little bit about what you guys are looking at how In the the future, are there areas that you're considering expanding practice?

C Yeah. So for me, personally, at the firm, I really want to grow how our, building retrofit and reconfiguration practice. And we talk about this a lot at the AIA and their strategic plan about how climate action is so important, Equity and social justice are are extremely important. And to me, those 2 are really tied together. And if we are really thinking about our impact on the environment, and we're really thinking about how we can best serve underserved communities who are in areas at risk. We really need to be retrofitting our existing buildings. We do a lot of it already, but we've never really coalesced into how It's not really a practice area. It's more of just a a way of working, I guess, but I think it ties into a lot of what I love about the messiness that I was about a lot about collaboration because you never know what's going to happen once, you know, a contractor demos a wall and what you're going to unearth.

C But, also, in my opinion, part of the reason why I love architecture is because it really engages how people with the built environment. Right? And so if you are developing a building or designing a building, you want people to like it. You want people to how feel connected to it and and feel like it's part of their community. And the one of the really profound ways how I think it it does that is that when you have an existing building that's already part of, you know, your nostalgia or, you know, it's it's sort of, an embodied history of your sense of space and your sense of place, and it gives you a feeling of belonging. And So I think why would we want to rip that out and put something totally foreign and new into a place? Again, back to the value of architecture, I think that's part of something that works against us a lot of times because people see new buildings as kind of affronts to their neighborhoods. So if we can start to consider the built environment as it is and acknowledge the history that's built into what got it there, how we can really create a unique future that responds to climate change, that is more inclusive, And that, in my opinion, that's that's really the future of of where our built environment should be going.

A Yeah. No. I agree. I, you know, I just wanted to see if you had any closing thoughts on the future of the profession or what's next how You know, if if man C. N. D. F. Had a moonshot, like, where would where would you see the firm heading?

C I think in general, not just Mancini, just the architecture industry, I feel like we're, how kind of the victims of our of our own way that we set up the profession. So we fought so hard to justify licensure And to make sure that that is this protected sacred thing that that is important. I I'm not gonna I'm not saying that it's not, how But, regulations then follow to ensure that. And so as a result, now that we're trying to become more agile and more flexible and how Maybe buildings need to be adaptable a lot more quickly and and, you know, maybe one day it's one thing and one day it's another thing, and that's okay. We're really hitting a wall with the legislation that we fought so hard to, you know, construct in the 1st place. How So I would love to see architecture kind of get past that and become a little bit more free and how comfortable with things being loose and not so defined and, you know, expansive in terms of what it is that we can do, Kind of get over our gripes about other people kind of infringing on our space and, you know, Start to think, well, maybe here's an opportunity where we can collaborate more and expand in both ways. And that that, I think, is really where the future how needs to go in order for us to remain valuable and and relevant. I think the moonshot for Mancini, I don't know.

C I think I I think we all have very lofty ideas about where we could go, and and there really is no, limit to what we could do, Which I love about the firm, but as a result, it's it's not defined on on purpose because we want to be able to, You know, maybe maybe it has to do with robots. Maybe it has to do with fabrication. Maybe it it simply has to do with Collaborating on different types of experiences within the built environment. You know? It it it doesn't really have to be One thing or another, there's one direction or another. I think everyone there there's a little bit of that, let's be a little bit more reactive. Let's how Talk to our clients. Let's talk to, you know, the general public. Let's kind of keep an eye on on what's going on in the world and see how how We can maybe contribute in a larger way, in a in a different way than we've thought of before.

A I hope that our listeners were able to at least how see the very entrepreneurial spirit that Mancini has when it comes to embracing not only new ideas, but really experimenting how And allowing the freedom to experiment, whether you're you've newly joined the firm or you have a a tremendous amount of experience.

B One of the things that I love about anytime I learn about a new firm and kinda go inside and look at it as a case study, which is what, you know, Evelyn, we do as business majors. But you find that firms are, like, driven by different value systems, which I know we talk a lot about. And in this case, it's they are really technology driven and then technology and design driven, which has created this environment where they're very open to experimentation and trying new things and looking for, kinda what's next in terms of what they can integrate into their business model.

A Yeah. And I don't know if they actually did this, purpose or not. Or it just so happened that the floor plan laid outs laid itself out this way. But their design lab, how I went and I visited Jessica last January, pre pandemic. And their design lab it was either last how January or February, but it was pre pandemic last year. And their design lab is one of the first things you see, like, as you come around the corner. So it's featured pretty prominently. And, you know, I got to step in it and, walk through the virtual test kitchen she was talking about and play with the tool belt and move things around.

A I mean, you could really easily see why a chef would be able to say, you know, no. This is going to be in my line of sight. This appliance is too far away from this appliance given how The workflows that I know of our kitchen. And then I was able to even play with the number of preprogrammed finishes that they have in the space. How Literally not only swap out finished colors, but move furniture around in the space and rearrange it in entirely new way if I wanted to. And

D how It's it features

A prominently in the firm, but it's also, like, as I was leaving, there was another group kind of touring how The space and and getting ready to jump into that virtual environment. So it's something that is constantly being used and introduced to clients and visitors a regular basis.

B You can take a look at some of the tools that Evelyn's talking about. If you go to their website, which is in the show notes, you can click on their blog and see some of the articles that feature some of the technology.

A Right. And I think it's interesting to me, Janine, that you mentioned value how systems because in my research, when we're looking at what is the future of work going forward, what is high like, what is a hybrid practice, I really talk about how the value sets and what drives the culture is what truly makes an individual firm how unique and differentiated from any other firm out there. Because if you think about strategies and process and how people approach how Problem solving and architecture, all of that can really be replicated. All of that can be taken when 1 individual leaves 1 firm and goes to another firm. But what they can't take with them is kind of the value set and the culture of that firm. And to me, Nancy Niedefi has, like, a very uniquely how Entrepreneurial forward and a culture that attracts a younger generation despite it being a 100 year like, a firm that's over a 100 years old.

B I agree. I think that's the unexpected thing about them for me is a firm that's been around a 100 years. It's kinda interesting that they're actually leading in the technology space in terms of how they're running their firm. And I do think that, like, it sounds really fun just having this, like, technology lab that allows their designers to kinda experiment and prototype and explore new tools. Another thing that I really wanna talk about is this idea that Jessica mentioned. She was really attracted to coming to this firm because of their commitment to being friendly for young mothers. That stood out to me. And I know this is kind of a trending thing that you might have seen in the news lately, but There are a lot of working moms out there that are really struggling right now through the pandemic.

B You know, we're in it a year, and the needs that have been discovered for parents through this process of trying to work from home and balance kids that are at home from school has been challenging. And so there's a lot of parents, especially mothers, speaking out about the the challenges and the inequities around that.

A Yeah. So the the she session is definitely real. It was interesting because at the beginning of 2020, There was some level of equity that, you know, the amount of females in the workforce was actually fairly equal how amount of males in the workforce. It didn't mean that pay and position was necessarily equal, but there was just, like, kind of equity how in the demographics of those individuals in the workforce. And that has taken a tremendous backslide during the pandemic. Given layoffs or given how many women have stepped away because because it's hard to manage wearing multiple hats, you know, being the teacher, being the mother, being the nanny, being the caregiver and the home provider how all through the the pandemic. So mothers have, in particular, have been impacted, and women in in particular have been impacted to a greater extent than males through this through the through the pandemic.

B Right. And I think it just raises the question, again, you know, how can we be proactive in designing a workplace where we can design to make these work situations more accessible for women. You know, Before, it was trying to come up with a, a room in the office where mothers could go, you know, pump or just step away. And now it's okay if if we're bringing our work environment into our homes and there's not a clear separation for the parents on, work and home life. Where do we design around trying to create opportunities for mothers and parents, so that we make it accessible.

A And I think this is gonna become even more necessary following the pandemic. So I am, how Technically, I am generation x. Right? And I am in this sandwich generation where my parents were boomers, but I'm still raising kids how that are you know, they're not in elementary school. So I'm going I'm I'm at a position where not only am I dealing with motherhood, but I'm going to be how Dealing with kind of end of care, on the parent's side at the same time, and that's going to become increasingly more so the norm. So as we think about kind of what type of flexibility as as well as what type of boundaries we create going forward regarding work life and home life how In personal life, I think figuring out a way to work hybrid, work asynchronous, how is it going to be that much more important? But one of the interesting things, bringing it back to Mancini Duffy, is also the mentorship

C how and the three sixty

A review process that they've created that allows I feel not only allows people to get feedback on a more regular basis, but it also gives the younger folks a voice and the ability to speak out and tell the managers what they need, to be successful as well.

B That's a good point. And I know I've heard a lot of my peers want three 60 reviews in firms, so it's nice to see a firm that's actually doing it on an annual basis. Sometimes firms I've heard stories of firms implementing 3 60 reviews, and then the next year, they don't do it because, well, it opens up a lot of conversations that are a little bit challenging. So but it's it's encouraging that there are firms out there that are pursuing it and and following it through because while how the feedback can maybe reveal things that you don't wanna hear about your own management style or the firm. It allows for dialogues that really need to happen that, otherwise, when you don't have them lead to people leaving or frustration or missed opportunities to really resolve things that, need to be addressed in terms of workflow and performance and, opening up communication around work dynamics. That's actually the first time

A that I've heard you say that, Janine, that some firms how decided to go against the 3 sixty because of even maybe negative feedback or just, like, the the greater insight how Or the, or the other conversations that it caused those firms to have that were a little bit outside of their comfort zone. I I always tend to think that we grow through the most through discomfort. And I don't know. To those leaders who think that, like, if If that moment in time reading those reviews made you feel uncomfortable in that instance, then you should really be empathetic and think about how how the people that work for you feel on a regular basis.

B Yeah. I can't tell if it's the feedback or if it's Also, sometimes they feel like it's it takes too much extra time to do you know, to not just have a one way communication channel. It requires additional planning and additional listening and additional, you know, problem solving on the back end. How either way, I think when you don't do 3 60 reviews, you're really missing, like, 50% of the information.

A How Yeah. And, again, these are all things that if you change about a firm and kind of really invest into how Processes, policies, and operations adopt these type of systems, then ultimately, you're reinvesting into your people, and you'll how that you'll be spending a lot less time and money on turnover. Right? And that you'll be more adaptable to situations as they arrive, in an instant. How Like when you're all of a sudden have to work remote or, more recently, you know, if you find that your branch in Texas how is without water and electricity, for multiple days. I think I think having these type of conversations how that involves the whole firm makes the firm ultimately more agile and adaptable in the long run.

B Yeah. And the last point. I just wanna pick up on that thought is that when you have 3 60 reviews and you realize that there's feedback that has to happen, It doesn't mean that all of the change is gonna happen at that one moment in time. It's a process, and it's gonna take time. But it starts the dialogue around change management conversations, and that's where, you know, the work starts to happen. How And I think and

A I you know, back to to Mancini, and we we've touched on it briefly during the conversation that the all these type of conversations Actually, it really opened up, the opportunity to identify what areas can we really provide extra services at Even how that we are missing right now given the strengths of our team. So, you know, they saw, an open area and decided to launch how MDLX 3 years ago, which is really more kind of a of an interiors based product in the end, but it allows them to, how as a company to deliver a more full service offering to their clients, but also provide a how Service that goes above and beyond their typical architectural services. So something to think about. I think how All of these things only come out of having more conversations with your people rather than us. And on that note, Maybelle, how We will end there. Thank you for listening, and tune in next week. Thanks for joining us on Practice how Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Visit us at practice of architecture.com to find out more about future episodes how changing nature of practice.

B We have several ways you can get involved with our growing community. Find us on social media this of ARC. You can also become a member of the POA lab or join us on Patreon.

A And if you wanna take your career or practice to the next level, how Janine and I also consult, provide workshops, and speak regularly on this research, and we would love an opportunity to collaborate with you.

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A We are also looking for sponsors who want to partner with us in 2021 and beyond. If that's you, please contact me directly how at evelyn@practiceofarchitecture.com.

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A Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to let us know what other topics or speakers how interested in hearing from. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.