Disruption and the Season 3 Finale

A This episode is sponsored by Monograph and Arc IT. You'll hear more about them later on in the episode. I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm

B Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

B Welcome to Practice Disrupted.

A Hello, Janine. Hi, listeners.

C Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors. Welcome back to Practice Disrupted. Today, we are celebrating hitting our 60th episode milestone. It is our season 3 finale, and we have invited back to the show our producer, our, Gable Media cofounder, our ally on the show, Demetrius Lynch, who also runs Spaces podcast finish out and celebrate 60 episodes. So welcome, Demetrius.

D Yeah. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to being back or to wrapping up another 20 episodes, with you guys. It's been quite a journey. 60 episodes in now. You guys have grown, what's the word, your meteoric rise. You,

C Humble beginnings. Yeah.

D You have, you're, over 11,000 listeners now heard in 44 countries. It's, it's just been impressive to see how you guys have grown. I was actually talking with someone, a friend from college, I think. And, we were just talking about random stuff, and I think we started talking about content creation. And he actually mentioned your episode, your podcast to me. And I was like, Yeah. I know them. I listen to these.

A Did he did he not know you were engaged?

D No. No. He didn't know. He just mentioned it in passing of, like, a show that he listens to. And I was like, yeah, I'm actually quite involved in that show.

C Thank you. That's wonderful to hear. I also got surprised when when I was doing a client interview session, and the person I was interviewing said, hey. Are you from that podcast? I was like, uh-huh. Yep.

D Yeah. I've seen people, mention you guys and share episodes. It's always, although I'm not generating the content or pulling all the the the ideas together and everything, that's all you guys. It's just being involved. I do feel like a proud family member, seeing you guys your content being shared by other people. So,

C you were 100% a part of the family, and and so is Stace, who edits our show now. You handed it off to him, but we we could not do this without you.

D Yeah. No. So it's been great to be a part of, but I did wanna, kinda, off the bat, share a few listener comments that, have come in and people that have reached out to you guys. So Ashlyn Frank, who's a student at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, he reached out to you guys and said that I'm a project designer and trained in architecture interested in the intersection of design, business, and engineering. I have been a big follower of Practice Disrupted. I would really like to connect with you so I can learn more about your profile and journey.

C He's a product designer. He's studying product design.

D Yeah. And then the we'll talk about this a little bit later, but the POA lab that you guys have started wanted to dig in that into that too in a second. But Satpal Kaur?

C Satpal.

D Satpal attended one of the practice of architecture workshops on design awards, and I think you followed up with her Janine about her talk about her business and how she started that with focus on design innovation and climate justice. And she's working on several projects and trying to fundraise for a COVID 19 memorial project. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that?

C Yeah. She just reached out and, you know, we finally set up a coffee and had a great talk about, you know, her entrepreneurial journey. So it was exciting to hear that, you know, there's different entrepreneurs out there that are connecting with us, and as they're thinking about their business that they see us as a resource. So we were brainstorming, like, how to help her, you know, find some money for getting that project built because it's already designed.

D Yeah. And then, wanted to move on to Kenneth Hill, who I think when people I guess at least my feeling, I thought you guys would probably lean more towards younger professionals in the industry, But Kenneth Hill has actually been practicing for 25 years, and he said, I really enjoy the PD podcast. I feel like I can relate to a lot of the situations discussed, and I'm definitely seeing and learning new things. It's good to hear that someone that's been doing it for 25 years is still learning new things and open to learning new things.

C Yeah. It was really great. I think Kenneth started listening to us after Traxel, though I don't know for sure, but he's been really sweet and reached out to me on LinkedIn. And so I just wanted to give him a shout out because he's been very supportive.

A Janine and I were giving a talk with AIA Portland last night, and we had a guest that dropped in. I I met him as, he was on the national board with me when I was an associate member, and he's literally so this is Bill Sider, FAIA of Pivot Architecture. And he apologized for not having listened to our latest episode, but he's, like, on literally on the way out the door listening to episode 53 this morning and and looks forward to catching up. But he's listened to all of them, up to 53. So that was that was just kind of a nice surprise to hear as well.

D Yeah. And then Ted Mazika?

A Is that

D how you pronounce it? I think it's Mazika. He posted in a response to your recent episode with Balanle on, leading with finance and entrepreneurship, And he said this is an outstanding piece on the art of financially managing and professional service practice. Ola, I guess that's her nickname?

A That's our shortened version of her name. Yeah.

D Okay. Ola has mastered the art and imparts incredible wisdom, knowledge, and forward thinking to her role. The project accountant role fosters the ability for technical PMs to do what they do best and allows for professional accounting staff to create a synergy on the project for the client and the firm. Those firms that embrace this see greater cash flow, tighter adherence to project budgets, and higher financial performance. I mean, there's a laundry list of of, good comments coming in. Janine, I'll start with you. Why do you think these episodes, your podcasts overall, have resonated with listeners?

C I think because of the timing of COVID, what we were talking about happened to be really front of mind for a lot of folks, and they're looking for solutions. So when they stumble across our podcast, they're like, oh, okay. Somebody's out there trying to talk about some of these challenges in practice. And the other part of it is I think a lot of what we're talking about are long standing conversations that have been going on inside the studio but have not really been talked about extensively in a mainstream way, maybe in some capacities. But I think that we're really trying to dig in further on these things, and they're not always conversations people want to admit or have. And so I think it's helping people think through them and and realize that there's a lot of people thinking about these things.

A This podcast started, right, kind of in the middle of the pandemic. So so I I I think it was just people I'm almost hopeful that that people were looking, that there are some people out there that are definitely looking for a change. I mean, if if anything, I I would say the great resignation is kind of and what's happening now relative to people moving around is is is like a they're they're voting with their feet. Right? That they they are actually showing that they are not only looking for change, but in need of change. And I think where our podcast tends to stand out amongst even the the other architecture marketing or business podcasts out there is that we tend to touch more on on culture and professional development with a different approach. Right? And we talk about things like emotional intelligence and and the need for those things to really evolve in our profession. And I I don't feel like that's a conversation that's being had as publicly out there in a lot of other forums.

D Yeah. No. That makes sense. You mentioned sort of starting in the pandemic. I get the feeling that the 2 of you sort of took this on initially as somewhat of an experiment and not really like, this you didn't wake up and, like, I'm gonna start a podcast, and it's gonna be great, and we're gonna do this for 30 years. What do you think I mean, you can speak to that as well, but what motivates you guys to continue to do the podcast now now that you're 60 episodes in, which is a crazy, crazy feat in itself. I'll start with you, Evelyn.

A I don't I mean, I would almost ask, you know, why do you keep doing Spaces podcast? Because you have a lot more episodes under the belt than we do. I you know, so Mark and I had been talking about podcasting for a while. For me, it's always been, like, if I don't have I I I don't I wanna put a certain quality of everything I put out there, I wanna deliver at a certain level of quality. And I do a lot of things. And learning how to, like, produce podcasts, like, was not on the top of my list of of additional skills that I wanted to take on. So so for me, it was it was, you know, partly Mark and you spinning up the Gable Media Network and and really embracing that opportunity. And perhaps it was a bit experimental because I don't listen to podcasts nearly as much as Janine does. So so in a way, I think in that way, it was experimental.

A But, what I didn't expect to find out, like, for to come out of it and what has evolved out of it is, especially now that Janine moved across the country, is just, like, making sure that the 2 of us have, like, stayed in touch as as friends and having that support system to kind of lean on through this. So that's that in itself has been, like, this wonderful surprise that has come out of it. And then actually using it as an excuse to kind of reach out to our network and really thinking about all the people that have touched and connected, you know, and helped grow our profession throughout our our careers. And a lot of those people are the people that we're actually bringing on to the podcast. So

D Ginny?

C When I was still living in the Bay Area, I remember one night I, like, wrote down, I wanna start a podcast and, like, some piece of paper in my office. And it felt like such a pipe dream. It was like I was listening to a lot of podcasts, and and I had been for years and I still do. But at that point, it was like, wow. This seems like this, like, really far reaching abstract goal. I don't know if I could ever do it. And now that we're at 60 episodes, it's kinda funny to think back to that moment when it felt so unattainable. And now to have done it, it's like, okay.

C Wow. I can really I can see the difference between where I was then mentally and where I am now mentally and what it actually takes to do it. But, yes, I listen to a lot of podcasts, and I really love this medium. I think that I've learned that I'm an auditory learner, which means that listening is how I prefer to receive information, and it's how I really am able to think through things. Some people like to read things. Some people like to write. For me, speaking and listening is a really important part of my process for learning, and this has allowed me to take a lot of the work that I was, you know, trying to do through my consulting business and take it further. It's helped me build my confidence.

C I love having Evelyn as a partner through the pandemic. She's absolutely right. We've been a support system for each other, not only as we've researched these topics, but as we've navigated our careers and needed support as 2 women who are leading in a really rare way that we we really show up for each other every single week. And I still feel this deep urgency in my day to day of really wanting to address these problems and find solutions. To me, that profession needs to change. And, you know, even if it was by accident that we tapped into this conversation, and as the podcast has become more popular, I feel a lot of responsibility to ensure that we're delivering really great content week to week that actually is tackling some of these hard conversations. So I feel urgency to address them so that the profession can move forward. And if we can have even a small impact on helping someone navigate a hard moment, a hard day, a hard week, then I feel like we've made a good impact.

D Yeah. It's good motivators to to keep going. Since we're talking about, season 3 of these last 20 episodes, which which one has sort of resonated the most with each of you? I'll start with you, Janine.

C I have 2 that were really important to me this season. I think that well, I have 3. I think Rishay and Amy were really important to me because they're such good friends, and they've been with me, you know, when I was very young and starting out in my career, they've seen me come through all these, like, hard moments. But taking both both of those conversations further with them and really learning what Amy's learned now that she's in this, like, incredible role at ZGF, And same thing for Vershae as she's transitioned to go, you know, work for prominent architects and then become this amazing designer herself. Like, I just feel so grateful that I have those friendships and that they were willing to come on the show. And then the third one I'll say is definitely the one with Michael Bush that was episode 42 about building a great place to work. I'm so appreciative that he wanted to come on the show and share his research that he's doing with his company. And and, again, he's somebody that was a part of my life at a prior moment when my life was very different, and it just means a lot to have those people show back up in my life and share content that is very meaningful to this podcast and the people who are listening.

D Yeah. On the the other 2 that you mentioned, what episodes and what were those topics? Just for the listeners. Oh, yeah.

C Sure. Amy, Amy's was 47, and that was called talent development and practice. It talks a lot about hiring and retention and staffing concerns in practice. And Vershae's is episode 48, which was architecture, identity, and culture and talks about her transition from being a young designer and getting to work on the major museum on the mall in in with the Freelon group and Phil Freelon, the African American Museum. And then now she's in a prominent design role at her firm in North Carolina.

A Yeah.

D Evelyn, which episode of your last twenty has resonated with you?

A I think, Jen Carrelisle. She she's one of the cofounders of Outer Labs. I mean, it was an interesting conversation because Outer Labs is a very much is a is a tech company that plays in the AEC space. So she had this dynamic view of what the AEC industry could potentially really directly adopt from Tuck that would help kind of expand it. And a lot of the conversation that we had of her really addressed the cultural differences between, like, how tech approaches sharing versus how the AUC industry even approaches sharing. So just see like, having somebody that could articulate that so cleanly was really refreshing to me because I am in it. I'm living it, having worked in the AEC industry and now being at Salesforce, but I just was never able to articulate it so clearly. And then episode 58, you know, Janine specifically asked, and we we had we partially joked.

A We're like, we actually need to get more architects on practice disrupted to talk about their practices and their practice models. So bringing on kind of revisiting a firm that I was impressed with, purely because at at one point, they had created a store that they were selling, like, homewares out of that were inspired by patterns that showed up in their architectural designs. But, like, later in my life, finding that that entrepreneur spirit, like, runs throughout the entire studio, and that they they have this this culture that when you read, like, the Fortune Magazines and Fast Company, that they that they are embodying the culture that all of these, like, quick growth companies are kind of embodying where they focus on celebrating a failure and really encouraging people in the practice to start their own lines of business within the practice itself was just was just refreshing. Like, I I think and I hope it doesn't come across this way, but I do think there's times where Janine and I look at our experiences and we're like, you know, is there is the is the architecture profession ever gonna change? Like, is that is that possible? But there's definitely absolutely firms out there that are that are doing it.

D Evelyn, being fully immersed in the tech world, how often I've I've always been curious. How often do you, just through your daily practice, see things or do things where you're just like an architecture firm would benefit so much from doing things this way. Is that just, like, so blatant and apparent on your daily basis of of what you do?

A So much. So much so. The caveat there is, like, having so is because of the tech company that I'm at. Right? So I've in my prior life when I was in an outside con as an outside consultant, I worked with a lot of different start ups and a lot of different tech companies with their workplaces. So there's a gamut of culture even within tech companies. But, like, I mean, for instance, Slack being in their product, they believe in giving as much transparency as possible. So they will, like, dump me in 200 channels, like, so I could follow, like, all of the different work that all of these different people are doing, whether or not I want to be. But it, like, like, here, let's give you access to everything, and then, like, tell us where you need to be engaged in.

A So so that mindset from the beginning is just so different, I feel, then. I I feel like architecture is, like, very kind of need to know. So just kind of from from there, and and then it it it expands tremendously out from there.

D Yeah. Completely different cultures.

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D So you guys took on a diff not a different approach, but you guys added some some spin to your episodes that you did this year. And you did a couple of crossover episodes with existing podcasts. Janine, do you wanna talk a little bit about those episodes and and the thought process, how those came out? How do you enjoy them?

C Yeah. We had a fun, unexpected moment. I think it was 6 months ago when we rallied all well, there's a couple of things that go into this. First of all, the fact that we're connected to Gable Media, we are connecting with different creators. And so, like, the fact that we get to collaborate with you, I think, and Mark is really, like, one of the preliminary things that informed this decision to step towards this direction. Later, we, you know, we really started becoming friends with the She Builds podcast girls who do an excellent job, and we've really enjoyed them a lot. And so we we had this thought, like, what if we get all the women who are running podcasts together, and we had this, like, women who podcast happy hour. I think that was 6 months ago.

C And so the thought was just like, you know, we really need to team up with some of these other content creators. And, you know, Katherine, she's had a long standing, running show that she's doing by herself, basically. And we're like, that would be a great episode to do. We definitely we were trying to do She Builds this season, but the timing didn't work out. So they're coming on next season. And then Troxell with Evan, we were like we keep having, episodes where we have the same guest. So, obviously, we're interested in the same topic, so we better just I think Evelyn started egging him on over on Twitter and and trying to figure out, like, how do we set that up? So Yeah. It's been fun.

C And I and I've really enjoyed those conversations because I think anyone who's working on a podcast knows how much energy and heart and effort goes into this, so it's always really nice to just come together and kind of have a really honest conversation about things.

D Yeah. I wanted to pivot to another thing that you guys introduced. I can't was it this year for the POA lab? Evelyn, you wanna talk a little bit about it and then, and then, Janine, you can fill in.

A Yeah. Well, I mean, I I think we the the the problem is, like and this is this is an admitted problem that I have. I have so many ideas in my head, and I think there's been a few that we've teased probably way too early because our bandwidth to actually execute on these ideas, you know, is so far down the line. But I'm just like, it's coming. I promise. So, yeah, the I think the practice of architecture lab kind of unofficially officially launched in, I would say, August, Janine, August or September maybe of this year. Right now, we're close to 40 people. So we're gonna recruit founding members if you guys are interested in joining at a, like, a 50% off discounted price until we hit a 100 founding members.

A And then we're probably going to, you know, raise our our pricing model back up there. But it is really about listeners who are resonating with the show, some people that have found the lab through other means that want to take the conversations that Janine and I are having, and just have more relevant conversations about how it relates directly to their careers and and their learnings, and have them join the conversation. But also how how can they take the things that we're talking about and implement it in their firms. And then just, like, what they're doing with their firms and share with one another. So I don't know. Some people have joked that I'm creating the AIA that I wish the AIA was. I don't know if I should be saying that out loud. But but one, it's it's much more nimble.

A But 2, it's it's really just and I've said this so many times before. I think Janine and I have felt in instances in our careers where we felt very isolated because people just didn't resonate with who we are or our approach or our perspective on things. But we found from this podcast and from the feedback that we got from our listeners that that's absolutely not true. So how do we create a community around that of people that are all trying to actively change their profession and evolve it and make it better?

D Yeah. Janine, do you wanna share a little bit sort of the format maybe and then anything else that thoughts on on what you guys are doing with the POA lab and how that's progressing?

C Yeah. Evelyn researched a new platform, and she it's called Circle. And so she built out the back end of the, POA lab, which is like this digital interface. And I think, actually, Monograph ended up using this for section cut, Evelyn.

D Oh, yeah. So this

A is They use it for their own community. But yeah.

C Oh, for their own community. But it was tied into the conference they did this summer. But, so it's very similar to that if anyone, has seen that. And we're, like, tweaking it, but, basically, we've let in people who we felt like we're gonna be a good fit for the conversation. Coming back to this idea of, you know, Evelyn and I supporting each other week to week, this also fits within that framework. We have a lot of different practitioners. Some firms, some are not in firms, but we're basically there's different ways to plug in whether you're an entrepreneur or you're just someone who's interested in this or you're working in a firm. We've been sharing conversations through the chat functions so you can post to different channels.

C There's, like, a weekly accountability thing that everybody does on Mondays to share what their goals are for the week. And then we've been having calls, including, like, a happy hour, and we do have hot seat sessions. And those have been really fun. I mean, that that's been really exciting to get to meet people that, you know, I'm meeting for the first time. And we've had some really great talks about various things. Like, Michael, is at UC San Diego. Is that right, Evelyn? And he and he he and I and Evelyn had this great conversation about project delivery models and, like, different alternative delivery, you know, ways to give projects and get them done and efficiencies. And so it's been awesome just to have this outlet.

D Hot seat session? What is that?

A So it's a I mean, it's it's a it's a hot seat or an office hours. So if you had something that, like, you want more people to weigh in on, we we come to it with the intention of, like, let's help this let's help this person through this specific issue.

D Gotcha. So more hyper focused on something specific.

A Yeah. So, I mean, it's it's it's limited by what Janine and I can support, like, on a monthly basis. We're we're trying to add back value by every every month. We're adding some, on demand CEU offering in addition to, like, the in person meetings. And then this month, Megan and our community is going to start hosting a a book club. We're gonna try to do it asynchronously, where we then, like, spin off and create, like, the cliff notes the architecture cliff notes version of a business book of a business book. So not only, like, what is a cliff notes, but, like, how does this more specifically rate like, relate to those people at at a firm or to, like, an architectural career trajectory. Yeah.

A And then the other addressing thing is it's become somewhat of a Skillshare for architects, I guess, is the best way to describe it. Because there's a few people in the lab that are, like, you know, like, I wanna do the courses that are you're doing, or I was thinking of developing this other passive income stream. So I'm working with a number of people in the lab that are interested in creating courses and flying it under the practice of architecture brand to support the future of the profession. Those are their products, so I don't know if I I have permission to speak so openly and freely about that. But Yeah. But it's just kind of like a it's like a very, you know it's entrepreneurial. I mean, it launched in August. We had an idea of what it could be.

A I I feel like it's already we've there's already hit a few pivots, and it's and it's grown, and it's really based on who's in the lab and what they want to do. Yeah. But but, yeah, it's been really fun.

D Yeah. It'll be organic for a while of, like, evolving until it hits its stride to figure out what it self wants to be.

A Yeah. Yeah. But that does remind me. I should just, you and Mark should we we should just drop you into the lab.

D Okay. Yeah.

A You know,

C in your free time.

A But,

D with all of our

A free time. To give you 2 access

C to the lab.

D No. I don't know if it's directly connected to the podcast and, POA lab and everything you guys have going on, but, Janine, you've had some recent professional success and growth. You wanna talk a little bit about how Apostrophe Consulting has grown, and and has it been? Do you think it's been directly connected to this?

C Yeah. Let's see where to start. So I think, you know, I'm a collaborator with Evelyn on POA and, Practice Disrupted. And then I also run my own business, venture, which is Apostrophe Consulting. And I will say that my timing on launching my business full time was really weird because it was 6 months before the pandemic, which has been a great time to go all in, on an entrepreneur.

D Good time.

A Maybe. There is. Good time.

C It certainly, it certainly made me have to get scrappy to get, like, a PPP loan and all that stuff. But Yeah. I definitely I would say in the past 6 months have come through this, like, really sharp growth period where I think I got out of my own way on it and just started saying yes to some cool opportunities. So I have a growing list of clients. I'm working with people all over the country, including, like, I'm going to Hawaii, which is why we're recording this early because I'm doing a strategic planning session 2 days out in Hawaii. I have some clients in California. I've worked with some other clients in other states. And so I'm having a lot of conversations in addition to the stuff that I'm doing with POA and Practice Disrupted in learning how to be an entrepreneur, growing into that role, and really helping firms tackle solving these issues, like, right in the studio setting.

C So I'm I'm just really happy with the personal growth and professional growth that I've gone through in the past, 6 months in particular, and I'm continuing to, you know, grow my business and figure out how to add value.

D Yeah. If you can say, is the firm in Hawaii, or are they just gonna be in Hawaii for, like, a retreat?

C No. They're in Hawaii. And, you know, they're a really great growing company that are

D are, you know, stepping into some growth of their own. And so I'm coming in

C to help them figure out what does that

D Yeah. I did some work in Hawaii once, but I this was early in my career where I didn't understand how to take advantage of travel, work where you're traveling. So I booked my flight. I was I thought I was being the good person. I booked my flight going like, arriving the morning that I had to go measure a building and booked an outgoing flight, like, that afternoon.

A Oh, no.

D Yeah. Didn't even align it with a weekend or anything. It's stupid looking back at it now. So I I did, I did get to walk and put my feet in the water, so I was officially in Hawaii.

C Oh, that's good.

D So, so what's next? What's next for practice disrupt it? What are you guys planning for next year? Any other appendages you're gonna add, like the, POA lab?

A Well well, first of all, we're in planning, actively planning. So I we do this often, but we're really serious. If there's a topic or a person that you would like to hear from on the podcast, please please let us know. That's one way to drive content. But then I think, I I know Janine and I have this laundry list of people that we've been reaching out to. Like, there's I think when we first did this, we're like, how are we gonna get to 20 episodes? And now, like, we have so many ideas. We're like I think when we did season 3, we had to move some like, we literally had to bump some things to season 4 to accommodate for some moves that we made in season 3 because we just have so many ideas. So we have a connection with the, with the Mayor's Institute on City Design, so we're gonna see if we can get a a fellow architect mayor friend on to talk about, his career path and to talk about what it's like to to work with that organization.

A There's definitely a handful of architecture firms that I've begun to reach out to. So, more examples of practices out there that are doing things a bit differently.

C We mentioned she builds. We're definitely gonna do a crossover episode with them, and we're actually having our first planning call on that tonight. We are also doing another in our diversity series dedicated to mothers and some of the challenges I think that moms are facing, both as new moms and, moms with, like, growing little ones and trying to practice. And then we're also bringing Mark back on the show who we haven't we haven't talked to Mark since when he interviewed us before Practice Disrupted launched, so I think we're due for a follow-up with him. So we're gonna bring him on the show.

D Yeah. He hasn't been on your show yet.

C Not yet. K. But we talk to him all the time.

A Yeah. We just need

C to bring him on.

A Continuing the diversity series, I think Janine and I talked talked about, like, Latin architects. Right? So that's another layer that we wanna bring in too. And then there's a there's a few people that I'm still waiting to confirm yet. So I guess I'm I don't wanna give it all away, and that's why we're being a little bit ambiguous when it comes to to names of of people.

C I think the reality is we have more people we could bring on than we have time for, but we're gonna do our best to get a bunch of people on that will be, you know, adding to the depth of this conversation.

A And we've actually got a lot more requests from PR firms that have been reaching out to us, which Janine and I have found rather surprising, which, I mean, to me, means that other people feel like this is a helpful medium for them to get their voice out too. So that's that's really great as well.

D Yeah. That's good to hear. So 60 episodes, it flew by, actually. I was shocked. I get shocked every time I see the episodes telling of, like, I can't believe it happened this fast. But, great season. Looking forward to what you guys have coming up, for next season. I I get the sense that it's gonna bleed into the following season to season 5 easily.

A As long as Gable will have us. Yeah.

D Oh, yeah. For sure. We love having you guys, and, this is this has just been a great show. Janine, did you have anything you wanted to squeeze in?

C I do.

D I I

C I kinda wanna flip it back on you, if you don't mind, since we have you here, to share could you please tell us and our listeners a little bit more about Gable Media and all the work that you guys are doing to expand the network? Because I feel like that is something that's happening also in the background that we should talk about because it is very entrepreneurial.

D Yeah. So with Gable, the idea is that we are and Evelyn hinted at this. You know, we see these conversations as extremely valuable for the industry, and we think that as all AEC businesses improve the way that they do their business, whether it's practice or the actual design, the actual construction, If they can figure out if we can break down these walls that the industry previously had barricading each from each other, If we can break that down and start to share all of this information, every company will get better, which will improve our built environment, which will improve society in our eyes. So as Gable Media, we're looking to break down the barriers for people like you, like you 2, that wanna share your knowledge, your interests and conversations, and sharing all of this information, whether it's on the practice side with you and and pushing practice forward or technology like Evan, the history and and knowledge, like, she builds. I'm talking about the the actual building, how they're designed and built and the effects on people. Mark's talking about business and on and on and on. I don't I don't wanna take a whole time going up through everybody, but please check out Gable Media, gablemedia.com. You can see the full list.

D I know I left people out, but I don't wanna spend all time, all the time going through everybody. But check us out there. But that's ultimately what we're trying to do. And right now we have 10 podcasts and, 2 video channels that we're sharing content, And we have plans to to branch out that I can't unveil all of our plans just yet, but we do intend to grow pretty rapidly over the coming years. So, yeah, follow gablemedia.com and gablemedia on all social media channels, and you'll stay along for the ride of what we're trying to build.

C And then maybe you can just mention spaces a little bit more because I I actively listen to your show. I always enjoy hearing what you have to say. I feel like sometimes we have conversations, without actually having a conversation where,

D you

C know, we'll pick up a thread from you. You'll pick up a thread from us. So you guys are doing really good work over there too. So when do your episodes come out, and how can people listen?

D We have a short form podcast that we do on Tuesdays and that comes out on Tuesdays Thursdays. And then it's a little bit infrequent right now because of the growth of cable media, but we do have a long form podcast where we dig into a specific project type or big topic, and we have experts come over to talk about, that specific project type. And those are usually about an hour long, and those come out on Wednesdays, usually biweekly. Right now, it's, like, monthly. I plan to get back on schedule going into our next season next year. And then our short form for the Spaces Express episodes, those are a little bit different where one of my co hosts, Jason, we kinda just talk about random topics within the industry and sometimes out, about society. And then we also bring in individuals from the AEC community, not just architects but engineers, contractors, developers, to share a little bit about what those individual roles are, again, to break down these walls because there's a lot of finger pointing in our industry and everybody thinks their job is extremely difficult and everyone else's is easy. So we're trying to share everybody's job is hard, but in a different way.

D So we're just trying to get everybody to appreciate each other, understand each other, and make the AEC community tighter and better.

C Awesome. Well, appreciate the work that you're doing over there too.

D Thank you.

C And we will provide a link to your show in our show notes so our listeners can go check it out.

D Evelyn, do you wanna sign us off and just for continuity, give us a a final sign off?

A Yeah. Well, well, first of all, I think and we said this at the top of the show, but thanks so much appreciation and thanks goes out to you, Mark, and and Stace, kind of our silent worker in the background for everything that you do in order for us to not not have the show, but I feel like we end up sounding a lot more intelligent than when we had the conversation. So thank you. We'll we'll be taking a little winter break. I think if you follow us on social media, we're going to call out some quotes from some of our favorite conversations, and encourage listeners to go back and and listen to some of our older episodes. But, you know, we are looking forward to season 4 hitting sometime mid January in in 2022 in our in our junior year of the pandemic. Isn't that a way like, a weird thing to kinda think about?

C That was weird. Yeah. I think maybe the only other thing to say is that, you know, if you've been following along, you enjoy Practice Disrupted. We would really appreciate if you can leave us a rating or a review over in Apple Podcast. That really helps us out to reach new listeners and boost the reach of our show and or you can just follow us on social media and leave a comment.

D Rating and review is preferred. That really lifts you up. So if you could do a rating and a review, that would help them tremendously.

C Awesome. You heard it here from Demetrius who's helping us with our stats.

D Evelyn? Thank

A you for listening, and tune in January for the launch of season 4 of Practice Disrupted. Thank you again to our podcast partner, Monograph. Learn how Monograph can help you take control of your firm's financial health. Follow the link in our show notes or visit practice of architecture.com backslash monograph so that Monograph knows that you heard about them from us.

C Thank you to Arc IT for their support of this episode. Don't forget to visit get arcit.com/pd to set up your free 15 minute cybersecurity assessment or custom solutions for your design firm.

A Thanks for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. You can find all of our past episodes by visiting practice of architecture.com backslash podcast.

B You can also get involved with our growing community. Find us on social media at practice of a r c h.

A And you can join us in the POA lab. You can apply to be a part of the practice of architecture lab by visiting practice of architecture backslash lab, where you will have more opportunities to interact with us and all of our podcast guests.

B This show is part of Gable Media. You can learn more about all of the podcasts and video content connected to this community by visiting gablmedia.com.

A Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to let us know what other topics or speakers you are interested in hearing about.