Unboring Architecture Business, Live Events, and AI-Driven Operations with Aya Shlachter and Nikita Morell

A This episode of Practice Disrupted is brought to you by the American Institute of Steel Construction, AISC. The center's staff architects provide a curated collection of structural steel resources to help architects save time and money, reduce risk. Learn more at aisc.org/architecture. Welcome to Practice Disrupted, the podcast on the business of architecture and how it's changing. I'm your host, Evelyn Lee. FAIA, NOMA architect, angel investor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're running a firm, starting your career, or rethinking what practice looks like, this show gets into how architects actually change the way they work. Hello, disruptors.

A Welcome to the season 13 premiere. of Practice Disrupted. We're opening this season the way I love best. Mic passed all the way around. Aya Schlachter and Nikita Morel are here to turn the tables on each other and on me. And if Aya's name sounds familiar, it should. She opened season 9 with me back in 2024, and now she's back for season 13, her lucky number, this time with a co-host. Aya is the founder and CEO of MGS Global Group, the production partner behind more than 500 architecture firms worldwide, and the host of the AI for Architects and Architect My Business podcasts.

A Nikita Morel has spent over a decade helping architecture firms put their value into words as a messaging strategist, and she's also the founder of Dirt, a brand messaging agency for AEC tech and construction companies. We caught Nikita just after her 40th birthday, calling in from Sydney, while Aya joined from the Philippines, and I stayed put in Northern California, possibly one of the most global recordings we've ever done. Together, Aya and Nikita are also the co-founders of Archicon, the only unboring business conference for architecture firms, landing October 8th and 9th in Melbourne. We get into why they built it, the masterclass that 2 of us are now building together, and what it actually means to run a firm AI-first instead of just thinking about it.

B Hi, Aya. Hi, Nikito. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Thank you so much for opening Season 13 with me.

C Thank you for having us.

D It's a pleasure and an honor to be opening Season 13. You know, 13 is a lucky number for me. People don't like the number 13, but it's my lucky number, so Of course.

B So thanks. Why is it your lucky number?

D Like, a lot of things happen in my family on Friday the 13th, you know, like a lot of blessings in business and family. So when people are, are scared about Friday the 13th, I celebrate it.

C Oh, I love that.

D Yeah, I'm not afraid of that. You know, in, in, in Asia, or some elevators don't have 13th floor. I don't know if you've noticed that. Yeah.

B So, well, in the US too. Yeah.

D Oh, okay. Yeah.

B And a very happy belated to Nikita, who just celebrated her 40th. So thank you for being here especially.

C Yeah, 40. I feel like, I don't know, for some reason I got very reflective yesterday. I think, I don't know, milestones sometimes do that. But yeah, I was like, I'm excited for my 40s. I think Business, no more babies.

B I hear you on the no more babies. I wanna just take a beat to talk about where we're calling in from, because I feel like this is an unusually global call. So I'm in Northern California. Aya, do you wanna tell everyone where you are?

D I'm in the Philippines right now. Yeah.

B And Nikita?

C I'm in Sydney, Australia.

B I would love to catch up a little bit with what you two are doing. So, there's this conference that you are planning, Archicon. Why are you two doing a conference together?

C Well, Aya and I first met, we'll just start at the beginning. It won't be a long story, I promise. But I met when I flew over for the AIA '24 conference in Washington, D.C. So, I was there to speak, and that's when I met Aya, and we both Just started chatting and almost like a bit of a joke and nothing against obviously the AIA, but it was more just like, we want to create a conference that kind of breaks boundaries. You know, there's these traditional conferences and they all kind of look and feel the same. So, we said, oh, imagine if we created our own really unboring conference, like just for business, you know, all the stuff architects do not learn in design school. Like, how funny and cool would that be? Anyways, that joke kind of became reality and snowballed. And fast forward 2 years, it is actually happening.

C So yeah, Aya, I mean, I don't know how—

D Yeah, we talked about the reason why we did this is because also, like, we pitched to a lot of conferences to speak, and some conferences don't necessarily— you know, like Nikita got asked to speak in the AIA US, but other conferences You know, they're very not inclusive in a way, or I don't know, maybe our profiles are not that great. I don't know. Or our pitches are not that great.

C I think it's more the content. I think we're great, but I think it's sometimes the business content that they're like, oh, it doesn't really fit with the schedule, you know? So I think, I don't know, that's how I feel.

B I mean, architects like design, right? So, like, so much of what is out there is We like to attract and talk to other architects about design.

D Yeah, and also, like, Nikita and I were just— I don't know what happened. I thought it was like really insane that we're doing this. I don't know why we just, you know, just said yes and started finding organizers. I think it's the natural progression of things. We've been in the industry for a while. I've been here for 18 years already. I don't know how long Nikita's been, you know. I think it's just there, you know, like that next thing.

D I think it was, and it just happened so fast, right, Nikita? I mean, we talked and then we met, you know, the right partners in Australia, in Melbourne. And so, yeah, I still can't believe it's happening in like 2 months.

C I know, I cannot believe, but I think also, you know, in real life events, especially since, you know, the pandemic and stuff, I think really now I feel like And maybe this is just my perspective, and I don't know, Evelyn, if you agree, but it's more like this is where the next thing is. Like, people are really craving those face-to-face connections, those interactions, because yes, you can find out any information you would like on AI and all, you know, on all these things, but it's— there's just something you can't replicate actually meeting people. And just, it's like those offline conversations. So even though we're like, oh yes, the content at Archicon is, it's to be exceptional. I think a lot of the gold is going to be in those, like, side conversations people have, you know. I think that's where I'm really excited to, yeah, bring together the right—

D and also, Nikita, like, I have a global business and a lot of the conferences are mostly in the US. A lot of the major conferences are in the US. I've been to a few conferences in Australia, but so we want to create a global conference where it's accessible to everyone. So we want to take this on the road all over the world. So that's also one of the things, right? Because some people have no access to these speakers and the conferences. And between Nikita and I and our, our reach in terms of knowing some speakers, they're willing to come and fly from everywhere to be in our conference. It's just really fascinating. So imagine if we can bring this to Singapore, to Hong Kong, to to Brazil, to— right? It's small and it's fun.

D It's fun. Like, you get to hang out in cool places.

B You're calling this the Unboring Business Conference. What makes it unboring?

C So, there's a lot. There's a lot to unpack. I mean, first of all, we've got a no-black dress code. So, everyone's going to be very bright, we hope, or it will be like a sea of gray. That's what I predict.

B You guys better send pictures the first day. Either that or it's going to be all white, right? They're going to like— Exactly.

C Yeah. But yeah, we look, that was just a bit of a joke. Although I've had a lot of LinkedIn DMs being like, Nikita, is this for real? I'm like, yes. Like, oh no, don't worry about it. But yeah, look, like seriously speaking, in terms of the unboring nature of it, I think it's a lot to do with how we're going to be presenting the information. So for example, we're flipping the whole talk versus Q&A. So we're going to have shorter talks, longer Q&As, so people can actually ask the expert speakers questions, like personalized questions about their firm, and get personalized answers. So that's one thing we're doing.

C What else? We've got panels that are going to be very, very honest and vulnerable. So not just like everyone nodding politely and, you know, agreeing, but, you know, one of our panels is going to be about the mistakes and regrets that people have made and how they've overcome them.

D And one of the panels is like why a lot of architects need to leave architecture. So, even the content is really highly curated so that it's really very thought-provoking. And also, like, to go back to our presentation format, we're using the Guy Kawasaki method. I don't know if you know that, Evelyn. It's like 10 minutes, 10 slides, concept of the Guy Kawasaki method, but we're making it 15 minutes. Very highly, you know, like we— yeah, it's, it's the Guy Kawasaki method, but instead of 10 slides, we're making it 15 slides, and the rest is Q&A.

B Isn't that also kind of like Pecha Kucha, or however?

D No, no, Pecha Kucha is a— I think Pecha Kucha is 6-minute presentation. This is more like— it's very— what we didn't say Guy Kawasaki, but we're just— we shared that method with them because I did something with the Guy Kawasaki method. I presented, and it's so— there's so much information you can unpack in 10 minutes if you really are very intentional. And then the rest of the time is Q&A, which is where people get a lot of value. And I'm sure, Evelyn, when you've spoken in a lot of conferences or you've been to a lot of conferences, And the speakers at the end will have like 2 minutes for the Q&A. Do you know what I'm saying? So we're very mindful. I want people to really interact with the speakers and really build community. And one thing also, like Nikita and I were talking about in terms of the unboring, a lot of conferences are events.

D There's events versus building community. Events, you have a host and after the event it's done. But Nikita and I want to really build a community so people want to come back every year. So we probably will do like a, um, a town hall with our attendees so people can already meet before coming to Australia and really build connection even before coming to Melbourne, right? Like the Archicon. Like, we're just excited about, you know, the event and maybe potentially other fringe events that we're gonna be talking about later on. Maybe karaoke or cold plunge or whatever other people are interested in.

C Evelyn, we've even— today we're actually catching up with him, but we've even gotten on board a comedian, a very well-respected comedian, to help us write, Ayesha and I, like our opening script. And because we're going to be the emcees, so we're, you know, we're really, you know, recruiting the help of experts as well to make sure that it is an entertaining event. And I think personally, and this is kind of, I guess, through my Nikita Merrell brand, which I've been advocating for years, is that you can be professional and have personality, and you can learn and have fun too. Like, it doesn't have to be so serious. And sometimes I do feel the industry, I don't know, gets that way. It's like everything's quite serious. So we've got 2 comedians opening up day 1 and day 2, and they're very known, you know. I don't know, what he's following.

D Nick White and Tim Ross, Evelyn, they're huge. They're massive in Australia. They're like comedian speakers. Even my 16-year-old son loves like Nick White and is trying to copy how he speaks. So our first day is a comedian and talks about architecture, and you know, and then the second day is also Tim Ross. Is, uh, who is Tim Ross, Nikita?

C He is just the OG. He's a comedian. He's just taken like a real interest in design. So he does grand designs and all that kind of thing.

D And they have TV shows too, so they get on the radar.

C He's everywhere. Yeah. Archi Marathon, we've got those guys coming on board. I don't know, Evelyn, if you've heard of them, but they're quite huge on YouTube. Anyways, we're just, it's not just trying to get in the celebrities, but it's trying to really get, you know, people that can add real value. We're excited and everyone's going to be sitting on tables, so it's not going to be like in rows of seats, facilitate conversations on those tables as well.

B Both you and Aya work with firms in the AEC industries in various different ways, so I'd love to hear from each of you kind of what you're seeing or hearing from your clients as like the most pressing business needs right now.

D A lot of our clients, their business needs right now is really actually business development and pipeline. It's not even AI, right? They don't want to know how to have a continuous pipeline and know how to do business development and marketing. Those are the pain points for most of my clients. And then AI adoption. That's the feedback I'm getting from a lot of our clients.

C And I would say I'm the same. Yeah, it's definitely business development. And that kind of— I work— we put a poll out on LinkedIn when we first started doing our research for this conference is to— we wanted to make sure that, you know, the type of content was what people wanted. And that was the same with business development. I think from my perspective as a positioning and messaging strategist, a lot of firms are now realizing that there is just so much sameness out there. I mean, essentially everyone's really offering the same services. So how do they stand out and how do they position themselves? Positioning is huge. A lot of clients coming to me because they're understanding the importance of positioning.

C So, that's actually what I'm going to be talking about at ArchiCon. I'm doing a workshop on how to position your firm.

D What about you, Evelyn, in your, you know, practice of architecture? What is it that your clients are looking for?

B I mean, it is a little bit of business development, but I like to dig a little bit under that. I think it's the, it's business development because one, the pipeline is drying up, right? And then you have to like look at like the economics of why the pipeline is drying up. And for me, ultimately it comes back to the, the business model. Like, yes, absolutely. You need proper positioning and you need to differentiate yourself in the market to win the work that's out in the market. But it's always gonna be, you know, I've always said architects, especially within the AEC industry, are— and, and where we are in our billings is we're the canary in the coal mine, right? Capital costs are like always the first ones to go when budget cuts happen, and inevitably they're the last ones to come back. So, and it's this cyclical, it's very cyclical cycle that's like, gone on for centuries now. So, how do we create businesses that survive those ups and downs? And I think it looks at where can we extend our services beyond where we traditionally offer architecture? So, beyond, you know, our SDs, DDs, CDs, CA, PM.

B And then also, can we even productize some of the things that we're doing? Like, I've been talking to a lot of high-end architecture firms who do these marvelously rich details. Right. And even door hardware. And I was like, why are you just doing door hardware once for one client? Like, things like that just don't make sense to me anymore. So those are the type of conversations I'm having about how do you take the work that you're already doing and one, get paid full value for it so you're not just giving it away. But 2, also, how do you leverage the talent within your office to do more? And then how do you think about contracts differently and how do you talk to your clients differently about the value you're bringing?

D Yeah.

B So, I don't know, but it always goes back to business model for me, like changing the systemic things that are wrong with business model and culture, business model, culture, and people.

D A lot of people like who are small and medium-sized firms don't really have like a business model or culture. You know what I'm saying? If you have a firm of 2 to 5, right? So, you know, like how do you inject that into smaller firms and really improve your business model. Some of them are just running their business, bootstrapping it with no systems. So I really like— right, like I, I did that when I had a team of 8. Now we're, we're actually very, you know, we have a great system and operations is really great. But how do you even suggest a good system or culture and a business model to small or medium-sized firms when they're just struggling?

B And that's also why Practice of Architecture has started focusing on operations, right? Because there's so much that technology can take off your plate from an operations standpoint to even give people the headspace to start thinking bigger about what they could be doing. I think one of the biggest problems right now is everyone has their nose to the grindstone, even the principals of large firms that, like, carry so many people, right, at their company that, like, rely on them for their livelihood, I think are struggling with, like, how do we make payroll? Like, ensuring that they make payroll every single week or every other week or every month, that they just don't even have enough headspace to think strategically about how we would do things differently. And that's especially true of the smaller firms. So, for me, it's just about, I've kind of flipped it on its head. I've said like, what is a life that I want to have? And this is specifically for like small and medium-sized firms. And how do you build a firm that supports the life that you want to have rather than how do you build a firm just to have a life?

D No, I, I like that because a lot of people start a business so that they have you know, time freedom, but it's the opposite, right? It's the people are just tied to their desks. It's the opposite.

C I also think sometimes, and this again is me speaking really generally, but I do think sometimes architects, there is that resistance to onboard external help. And I think sometimes internally they're like, well, let's just figure this out. We can figure this out. You know, we're a team. We don't need to spend or invest any more money. But I think sometimes really, and I've seen through the last decade is by getting a fresh set of eyes and getting experts that this is their job, is to look at operations and to look at it from a different and outside the industry. Otherwise, I think sometimes the whole architecture industry just becomes an echo chamber of just these large firm owners talking to other large firm owners and then the same stuff. But Evelyn, that's awesome.

C I'm actually really happy to hear that business models and operations, because We've definitely got speakers doing whole talks on business models at ArchiComm. So, that's, Aya, a tick. We've done something right.

D It was really amazing. Like, we got so many speaker applications. We're a small conference. We're only accepting 220 to 250 people. And, you know, we were overwhelmed by the number of people who applied to our conference that we've never even started yet. There's no, you know, proof of concept, but you can see that there really is a need for, for the business side of architecture, right? And how different people really want to share their knowledge based on their experiences from all over the world. Like, we had to say no to so many, and I felt so bad, but there's still next year.

B I have a question about that because, Nikita, you felt this in a way that maybe Aya and I haven't. Just because you come from a little bit of a different background. When you talk about, like, bringing in expertise, I've often talked that the only reason why I've gotten my license and my F is because then people will listen to me, right? So, when you guys were going through the speaker selection, were you conscientious of whether or not they even have architecture backgrounds and how the audience might receive them differently?

C I mean, I say we were conscious of it, and I think the biggest thing for us is to get a real good mix. So, it was really about the chemistry between the speakers. Even though they're doing their own talks, they're still going to be in the same room, and especially with the panels. So, I'd say, yeah, we were conscious of— we got 2 people flying in from SOM. So, we're conscious of getting that kind of experience where they're either architects themselves or worked inside it versus some others who are really emerging, like Izzy White. She's really big on advocating architecture. architecture to the public and how people can use the media to facilitate that as a vehicle. So, like, yeah, I don't know.

C What do you—

D For me, as somebody who's running a business, I said yes to the people who actually are running their businesses and living the life of a successful architect who's gone through layoffs and who's been in the business for so long and how can they still survive the economy. So, a lot of like 2 of our speakers are actually former guests, right, in the Architect My Business podcast. One, one is from New Zealand. We invited him over. He, he won his FirmOne House of the Decade, and he's run his business for several years. And just having some kind of a mentor of a person who's run a business, has 40 employees, and already has a transition plan of how he's gonna you know, retire and have the next generation of architects take over. So very practical information that a lot of architects don't even think about. Like people, a lot of older architects, they retire and not think about selling their businesses.

D So very tactical and practical ways, but also they're thought leaders in their own space. So for me personally, as somebody running a business, I wanted someone who's actually run a business and share how they were able to still continue in any economy, really. Because people are— they've diversified. Some of these architects that we're talking to have diversified product offerings, which is why I brought them in, because they have certain products that they've introduced.

B It's interesting that, like, in the poll, AI didn't necessarily come to the forefront, because I feel like we're all doing Something with AI?

D I think it was number 3, actually. It was not even in the top. It was business development pipeline, and then AI. So, I was like pleasantly— I mean, I was a little bit shocked, but I guess it's because right now, Evelyn, like the economy, there's a lot of uncertainty right now with the gas prices, economy, the war, that people are just really like, they want to solve their problems right now.

B Is that like a very US point of view? Because this is a global audience. So, are you seeing like, I have no idea if Australia is struggling with the economy in the same way that the US is struggling right now.

C Yeah, we are. And it's definitely like, we've been asking, getting a lot of feedback, and I think it's funny because everyone wants to come, but it's just— yeah, it is. It's hard right now. Yeah, it's a lot of money. It's not a cheap conference. It's not like— but yeah, definitely Australians feeling it. I don't know. It's hard to say how much.

D Yeah, in the Philippines too. You know, the gas prices have skyrocketed, so our offices are only open— I'm in my Philippine office where we work from home on Fridays. When the gas prices were so high, we only did 3 days at the office because it's very expensive. Like, we really feel it, right? So, so globally, even in the US, some of our clients have paused some of their contracts because of, you know, Uncertainty. So I think it's really a global issue right now.

A A quick thanks to our partner, the American Institute of Steel Construction, AISC Architecture Center. It takes a huge amount of time and energy to create an elegant structural system, but as an architect, where do you start? With the diagrams and terms architects need to express their design intent, find resources and inspiration at aisc.org/architecture. Or contact the team at architects@aisc.org.

B How are you guys doing this and balancing work? And I don't even dare say, like, Nikita, you've also, like, launched a whole new brand and a whole new client base in the middle of all of this.

C I did not think of the timing, plus 4 young children who are, like, consistently getting something. that comes around with the germs that come in from 4 different places now. But I think, I feel like this is why it's going to work. And that's why Aya and I just, we work very much the same way. I think we've got both, we're both highly ambitious. So, you know, sometimes you, you know, back to group university projects, when you have that one person that's just kind of like flying off the coattails of another, it's not like that. I don't know why, like maybe I'm talking from my point of view, but it's very equal in how—

D Yeah.

C The amount of work we're putting in. I think we both have really good different skill sets, you know, in terms of like if something needs to be written or rewritten, it's kind of like comes to me where Aya's got an amazing team and Aya is very good at the bigger picture stuff. So she put a— oh my gosh, this amazing Notion. Like, Evelyn, there are so many pieces to this puzzle. Like, she put in this whole thing that was just like, well, when are the newsletters going out? When's the podcast? Uh, Instagram Reels. I hate making videos. So she's brought on a video producer who they both kind of bullied me into like making.

D But Nikita's right, like it's interesting because Nikita and I bonded in the— in AIA DC, right? Like we just hit it off and we're just like— but anyway, I like Nikita, we have good chemistry as business partners. But you know one thing I've done, Evelyn, I'm huge in the podcast space, so One of the reasons that gave me confidence about this conference is, I don't know if you know of the conference Podfest. Podfest is the biggest independent conference for podcasters in the US. They're 10 years old, they're the biggest, and Chris Kremitsos, the founder, is a good friend of mine and asked me to do Podfest Asia in the Philippines 2 years in a row. So I brought Podfest Asia to Manila twice already. So that's why it gave me the confidence to do it because I have a lot of mentors and resources that helped me with all this. So between Nikita's copywriting skills, marketing, and her audience, and my knowledge of bringing the 2 conferences, global conference in the Philippines, as well as my marketing team, we have like a huge, you know, I do all the things in-house, Evelyn. I have an AI, I mean, I have a podcast team, I have separate team for LinkedIn, I have a separate team for, not team, I have a separate person.

C Yeah.

D So I have 3 people for each. So, so I'm like, okay, I already have an Instagram person, a LinkedIn person, a TikTok, a YouTube, and an AI person— I mean, a podcast. So we're just adding on to my existing infrastructure. So we're not, you know, it really works. So they just added one more project to their, their plate. So it really helps. And then, you know, between emails, Nikita and I really look at how we can respond to certain emails or certain queries. And, and our finance guy is also—

C um, yeah, Mike is the best.

D Mike is my CEO.

C We're like, so we're thinking we're gonna have this and that when people walk in. He's like, ladies, the budget. Like, he just keeps us in line. He's our budget guy. He just— he's our hero, I feel like.

D Yeah, I mean, there's a person behind us too, like, in terms of the finance part. So it's very intense, Evelyn. It looks so easy, like, we have all this content, but But it's very highly organized and scheduled. But that's because I've been doing this for the last 5 years. But I couldn't have done it without Nikita, 'cause Nikita also knows a lot of people in her network. The speakers are here because of Nikita. They know her. Some of our keynotes and the ArchiMarathon guys and Tim Ross, we would not have gotten those high-profile people without Nikita.

D So it's really, it's very exciting and very scary at the same time.

C There's a bit of a dead zone we've found out, and I'm being very candid and honest, but it's you, Evelyn. So, but yeah, there's with events, which Ira and I are learning is like when we released the early bird tickets, it was just like influx of people, which we're really blown away. And then, you know, we've gone like, it's hard for people to plan as well for October, but now we're seeing it pick up again. But there are a few months there where we're like, uh-oh, like, But, this is it with anything, right, in business, whether you're an architecture firm owner or whatever, you just got to back yourself. I mean, Evelyn, you had the biggest role in '24, was it? And you backed yourself. Yes.

D Talk about that Evelyn. Yeah.

B I don't know about that.

C We do.

B One of the few things that people don't realize about AIA National is that we have close to 200 people on national staff, right? So I had 2 people managing my calendar as part of their part-time— as part of their full-time job. So it's actually been a real struggle this year. I just made a post about this because my husband's like, that's not on your calendar. And I'm like, I swear. I'm just so used to, from the last 2 years, like people putting things on my calendar of where they— I am supposed to be, and they inherently invite my husband so he knows where I'm supposed to be. I haven't done that at all this year. And he's like, where are you going? And I was like, but it's on the calendar. And he's like, I don't think it's on the calendar.

B But, but those are the type of things that I'm definitely handing over to an AI assistant to try to help me figure out because I just don't have time.

D So, how do you manage, Evelyn? I'm gonna ask you the same question between your 40 podcasts a year, your travel schedule, your practice of architecture, and just getting all the guests. I mean, how do you manage? And the kids and being a wife.

B I have an au pair.

D Okay, that's true.

B I have a husband. I mean, we, so we are like a dual income family in Northern California. I don't know how the single income— well, I do know how the single income family does it, do it. They, they are usually very like tech founders who have IPO'd. And, but anyways, I mean, so we have an au pair. I've always been very open about that. To help with the kids at home. This year is very much startup mode.

B So, I, you know, I say very publicly that I'm trying to build— I'm building the practice that I hope everyone else can have too within their practice. I know that I'm a consulting service to architects and they are architects consulting, providing services for their owners, but I would like for my business at least for the small and medium business owners out there, to be reflective of how they can build their businesses and operations in a way that takes more things off their plate rather than adding more things to it. So, a lot of it is like just building out, building out systems.

D You were the one who told me about Notion, actually, Evelyn. You introduced me to Notion. And that's how, when you said I built my CRM in Notion, I'm like, wow. Let me check that out. And now I'm hooked.

B Well, Nikita just said that you did the whole thing in Notion.

D Yeah, because you told me about it years ago. That's how I got started. You told me you built your own CRM in Notion. I'm like, wow. So I studied Notion because you suggested it to me years ago. So I just wanted to give you credit because, because of you, I'm like a Notion person now.

B You're not—

C you're a power user.

B Nikita, do you use Notion?

C Yeah, I do, but I think I don't use it how other— like, for me it's more just my content marketing hub, basically. I don't know how other people use it, but yeah, I've just set it up that way, so all my stuff's in there. But I actually invested a lot of time and money last year setting up my ClickUp. I got an— again, I was like, I can't do this myself, so I got an external lady in the States who she's really good, like basically just pulled out all my processes, got all my templates done. And then yeah, just systems. I agree, like systems and operations. I just built out my first CRM system because I never had one. It was just more like random spreadsheets everywhere.

B I was like, how did you not have a CRM?

C I know, like it was just me. Yeah, I still don't know. So now like it's really—

B But now you do.

C Now I do. I'm in the process of converting all literally just been in bed every night, just like looking at all the people I know and being like, I'm going to put you in my system. So yeah, but these things help, right? Like it's— and this is the stuff AI can— me personally can help as well with research.

B And actually, Nikita, you will love this. So I have— I'm rebuilding my websites right now, but it's dynamic. So this is the first time I've been off of WordPress in a really long time, and I used Claude Code to build it all. And I am like, I use GitHub and I know what a repo is now and Vercel, and it built it on Next.js. And it's dynamic too. So, and it's connected to my, I, I get this, it's connected to my Notion database. So whenever like a speaking opportunity comes in and I confirm it in Notion, it goes live to my website.

C Oh, wow.

D Wow, Evelyn, you're so impressive.

C That's really impressive.

B So Nikita, think about it this way. If an architecture firm kept all of their marketing and copy in one place, like they had the templates or something, right? And then every time a new project comes in and populates that, it automatically goes to the website. It gets like added to the press kits. So I have all of these automations built in that as, as I like take on new things, the website begins to update. And then every 6 months, it looks at past speeches, like the speeches I'm giving and the scripts, and says, like, do I need to be talking about myself differently based on how I, like, how my conversations and how what I'm saying evolve? And it'll change the copy on the website.

C Yeah, this is brilliant. I mean, it just takes so much work off your plate. Like, not even work, it's just like mental load, right? It's like, yeah, the thought of having it. Yeah, that's, that's so cool. I'm looking at it now. It's really cool. But the, the, like, I don't know how you did this, but it doesn't look or feel at all like a Claude. I've seen a lot of Claude websites and it does not feel like that.

C Um, so well done. Congrats. This is— oh wow, there's so many recent talks and interviews.

D Nikita called me out on my website too, and I changed some of the wording. But, you know, like, maybe after Archicon, Nikita, we can really revamp my website. She's not shy about it.

C So, I've never done a LinkedIn newsletter. Like, I just— like, the whole thing, I was like, oh, it's just another thing. But this week for Dirt, which is my agency for AEC tech and construction, I launched a LinkedIn newsletter and the whole thing is called, it's called The Teardown. And basically it's me just doing the good, the bad, and the unburied, cuz you know, dirt, and just going through and tearing apart people's websites. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get a reputation of being like this. People are gonna hide from me.

B I literally just said you're really critical of websites and you're like, no, no, no, no. But I have this LinkedIn newsletter that I launched. That literally just tears down websites.

D No, that's good, actually. People need to hear what Nikita has to say.

C I'll do it until I get sued. I'm sure I'll end up in the courts at some point.

B I do think, like, there is no excuse though right now. Can we all agree to have a horri— like, there is no excuse for any architect or anyone in the AEC, well, anyone, anyone anywhere to, like, have a horrible website at this point. I feel like if you know how to do anything, with AI. There's just like, there's no excuse.

C And I think the most brilliant part of your dynamic website is like, I've been doing a lot of research into AEO and like this whole kind of like how search engines are finding people. And I think that's it. Like you need to have so much more on your website now, you know, that whole kind of like zero-click marketing, like people, SEO, I personally like, it's always going to be important, but people are now searching on ChatGPT, they're searching on Claude. So, it's like, how do you get those, you know, website crawlers or whatever to pick up your website? So, it's really brilliant, Evelyn.

D I did something on my Instagram. I said architects and business owners also have to be content creators nowadays. It's so cringy. Like, you know, like people— my optics are— my optics before were all AI for Architects and Architect My Business. And I had a consultant say, your optics are too hard. You need to soften yourself, like, you know, do more. That's why I start doing cold plunges and like the real Aya behind the business.

C Oh my gosh, I don't even want to know what my optics are. I'm like doing the splits and like—

D Right, because people buy from people. So now I'm like, I was on— I was— I took a 2-week break and I'm like, okay, I need to create content. So now I'm like cringing. I'm in Vietnam and it's like gross. But you gotta do it, right? It's like, it's just the way it is.

A Yeah.

B I don't know if it was New York Times or Wall Street Journal, but there was this whole, and that's not true of just like the architecture industry. It's like, but it also has to go with this new level. And I just finished listening. I've been doing a lot more audiobooks during the summer, going on long walks and just listening. But I just finished listening to Pete Buttigieg's book on trust. There is this desire and need for trust and transparency right now, and it's, it's not just like getting on there and being like perfect, right? Not only do you have to be a creator, but everyone— like, people want to see all sides of you too. It's not like this Instagram pretty algorithm anymore.

D And also, also, like, I was so cringed about doing like me running in the morning with my morning face. Do you know? It's like I have morning face with like no makeup and like— but ever since I started doing more personal posts, I've been getting like so many leads coming in. I'm not even kidding. Like in Vietnam while I was on vacation, I got 3 new leads and I don't have a sales team, Evelyn. My sales team is really the content machine, the podcast, the Instagram, the yucky things that I cringe about. And so it's crazy. Like ever since I did that, I get a lot of phone calls. So I'm just, you know, saying to everyone, you need to be, you know, not— you don't have to show everything, but a little bit.

D You should try, Evelyn. You should try. I'm not even kidding. Like, it was 6 months since I started adding more personal stuff. Like, come on. I'm like, I'm a size 12 and I have freaking pictures of me cold plunging in the river. Like, whatever. I don't care.

D You know, it's crazy.

B It's like, do what I say, not what I do. Because I do talk about like the need for people to show up more human. And I do that on— like, I try to do that on stage, you know, whenever I get on stage. And I like— that was— I always said, like, that was the biggest compliment I got last year when I was on the road, is just like, I can see myself being a leader now because you were willing to be so vulnerable up there. And thank you for being human. And thank you for showing that side of you. And like, even in some instances, especially in like room full of women, when we got like really, really honest Like, there's definitely tears show up and like, just because I cry for Hallmark movies. But I think it's because people then see you as human and people then see you as, I want to work with that individual, is really what it ultimately comes down to.

C And also that's visuals, yes. But I think also that's where voice comes in, Evelyn, which I know we've discussed and touched on, but like having a distinct voice 'Cause a lot of people like land on my website and they're like, oh, when we talk, they're like, you sound like what your website sounded like. And I was like, yeah, that's because it's a brand voice. And I think that's where AI, like personally, again, it's from my perspective, but that's where I get really worried about where AI, it's not there yet, I don't think, especially with sentence structure. I think it's getting a lot better with tone, but actual sentence structure, there's just some things that it just very tells. tail that AI is being used, which is not bad. It's just, it becomes a very same thing.

B And that's actually something I'm working on. I think that Nikita, you will appreciate, and I'm doing a workshop with a firm, is just how to build a voice MD, a voice markdown, so it doesn't sound like AI, right? And part of that is like, also, do not include these phrases. But for me, there's always a human in the loop. So, I don't know if you guys, have you guys started getting AI to draft emails for you yet?

C You did it for a little bit, didn't you?

D Yeah, I, I tried this one. Stefan Mikulic suggested something to me, but I got nervous because it really sounded like me. I was afraid that they would just be sending emails. I tried, but I stopped.

C No, it did. Remember it sent one for Africa?

D Oh, it didn't. Oh, it did it. And I thought like my perimenopause, and like, you know, when you're 50 and like you're perimenopausal, you forget. I'm like, did I write that? You know, like it's so scary, the AI, you know?

B Well, first of all, you can set up guardrails, like make sure you're putting on guardrails on all of these tools, right? Like I have global guardrails about what it can and can't do. It can search for me on Amazon, but it can never hit purchase, even though my credit card is connected to my Amazon account, for instance. Like right now I have it set to, it can't send an email for me. So, I have an agent that it looks through, it can identify the difference between a cold person reaching out cold and somebody that I'm trying to like start a relationship for. And it gets my voice guide and then it drafts something for me. And then I go in and make edits and send it, and then I have it check. So, the other thing is, the other thing that I'm learning to build in is how do you build in these loops? of continuous improvement. So then at the end of the day, it looks at all of the emails that I sent and compares it to the drafts it originally made, and it updates my voice document based on those changes regularly.

B So it continues to get better and better. And even as I continue, so like I end things very informally with like just thanks, E, instead of even spelling out my full name. And it like picks up on those things, like who do I say my full name to and who do I just say E to? And then I use Whisper a lot. Do you guys use Whisper?

D I've heard of it, but I haven't used it yet. The first AI email service just kind of like freaked me out because I was confused because like, did I do that or not? But I'll check out Whisper. I've heard about it.

B Whisper is not an AI email, but it's nice as a solo practitioner because then I actually feel like I'm talking to someone. Since you can talk faster than you can type, I don't, I rarely ever prompt my AI by typing anymore. I like literally have a conversation by reading what it tells me back and then talking back to it in just natural language. So Whisper is just like an incredible speech-to-text translator, except that my husband comes in and he's like, are you talking to me or are you talking to your computer? And I'm like, I'm talking to my computer.

D Evelyn, you're so like advanced in terms of AI and all of your agents and things like that. Is that part of your practice of architecture? Do you have a library of classes that share that? Because I would love to check it out and share it too. Like, you know, how you use AI in creating agents and things like that.

B I'm starting to. So that's what H2 is looking like. I know we're already into H2, so I'm going to finish. I need to finish building my website and then I plan in Q3 and Q4 to reopen my access to the lab. It's closed right now because I feel like I'm not giving it enough time. But as soon as I get those systems worked in, the hope is that every day I'm kind of sharing what I'm doing. I'm talking about how people can replicate it, at least in the lab. And then if you need additional help, there'll be advisory services on top of that to kick off some of these automations and think about how to use AI differently.

B And then— And part of that is these AI workshops that I'm going to start doing both in person. And Nikita and I actually talked about doing some type of masterclass together, so we're going to figure that out.

D Can you talk about that? I'm excited.

C Yeah, so are we. But we don't— so I guess, I don't know, I feel like Evelyn and I, like, we obviously, we've known each other for years, but we always seem to have very complementary skills. I don't know, Evelyn, if you agree, but like, I feel like we come at things from very similar angles. So yes, we want to put together a masterclass. I have been doing a lot of, I guess, investigating in Chord Skills and Chord Cowork, again from a positioning, copywriting, messaging angle. But yeah, it overlaps nicely with what Evelyn's doing with voice.

B Yeah, no, I think we just need to figure out what it needs to be together, because you and I talked about how do we create something for both of our audiences that's more broadly meaningful, but leverages AI. And then, and I think it really honestly started because you had such a successful AI course last year that we were kind of thinking about how do we build upon that.

C Yeah, for some, I guess. And that's the thing, like, with my courses, like, I just have a real problem. And that's why I really admire what you do, Evelyn, because you understand the mechanics behind it. Like, I think there are just so many people out there being like, 101 masterclass for architects. I've seen this one that keeps popping up, it's like architects, AI for architects. And it's just like these workshops that really give high level and people don't actually walk away with the confidence and the skills to actually apply stuff. So, even, you know, I'm doing a Claude masterclass that's gonna be just on skills and basically I only, I, you know this, but the other day I was just like, oh wow, like there's like all this whole part of Claude that just unlocks for me and like building skills and like what can skills be used for. So yeah, I think definitely Evelyn and I can come together and create something really actionable.

C I say we're both very passionate about that.

B Just this week though, did you see Claude released a record? It might only be on Pro Max plans where you can record like a repeatable action on your computer, like you doing a repeatable action. Like, if you're doing, like, a lot of copy-paste or, like, moving things around on spreadsheets, you can record it and you can create a skill off of the recording.

C Sometimes I just feel like I don't, like, I'm not tapping into it because I don't, you know, when people are like, oh, and then I got, like, thousands of data and put it in there and it did this. And I'm like, I just don't have that data. Like, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, it's just such a huge thing. I don't know. I just feel like a huge part of it is unlocking what it can do for you. Do you know what I mean? Like, really going through and really learning your business and being like, well, what? And just paying attention to what you're doing.

B You have so much though, like any proposal that you've ever put together for a client. So, I just, I made it pull because I wasn't going to do it on my own because it would have taken forever. I made it pull down all of my transcripts. for all of the past episodes. And now I'm going to start looking at, like, what are threads that I can pull? And then, like, given on these threads, like, what are lessons learned? How do I create content out of those things that push people back towards listening to older episodes of the podcast? Things like that.

C You're really good at this.

B Do you use NotebookLM, Evelyn, for that, or what do you use to No, I'm all on Claude because I pay $200 a month for Claude too. Like, I, I was on ChatGPT. I did like the whole exodus when everybody else jumped from ChatGPT to Claude.

D Yeah.

B I definitely made that. And so many Slack people ended up at Anthropic from a values perspective. So, a few things. Give us the dates and where to go register for Archicon. And then, well, let's start with that.

C So it's a 2-day event in Melbourne, Australia, 8th and 9th of October, and it is at the W Hotel, which is a really, really nice place. And look, you know, if you have distant relatives in Australia or you've ever wanted to cuddle a koala, I feel like this is like the perfect excuse. You can write it off because I feel like, you know, a lot of People from America might be listening to this, or, you know, Europe. Evelyn's got a large audience. It'll be a game changer is what we're saying. It's going to be unboring, it's going to be fun, and it's just a good way to get out of the office.

D archicon2026.com. That's the website. Archicon 2026.

B Nice. And you guys are doing this next year? Can people start planning for next year already?

D Yes. Absolutely.

C Come to this one. Come to this one first. And then maybe—

B So we usually end this with kind of a what's next. What do you all hope that you haven't necessarily mentioned that people walking away from Archicon will get?

D As a business owner, I really want people to fall in love with their future because there's so much anxiety about the future. Right, about what's gonna happen and this and that, like about running a business, the family. I'm a mom of a 19-year-old who just went to college and is already worried about her life after college, getting a job, even relationships. You know, it's like in the age of AI. So I'm hoping that people will leave Archicon feeling like, okay, I can do this, I got this, I have enough tools to help me succeed. Because we're also sharing a lot of failures, which is what we're asking our speakers to share. We don't want it to be all, oh, look at me, I'm so amazing. So we want people to leave with confidence about running a firm, because when you're running a firm, it's so all-consuming, right? It affects every part of your life— your family life, your home life, your personal life, your health.

D So that's my goal, is like the speakers that we've curated have We're going to have them share their mistakes. So, I'm hoping that people will come out of Archicon like, okay, I'm ready to tackle the next 5 years. I mean, I know it's a very ambitious goal, but that's really the goal for me, at least.

C Yeah, no, I think that's very much, I mean, aligned with me. And I think I'm very passionate about creating the right room of the right types of architects. Like really like-minded, future-focused. I really hope that ArchiComm brings those people together. And from the ticket sales so far, I think it is, which is what I'm excited about, is just the connections. Yeah. And as I said, like from day dot, we had our first meeting with the events manager. I remember it was like back in late last year and she was like, hey guys, what's the goal for this whole thing? And, you know, Ira and I both said it's, it's for people to come back.

C And to want to come back.

A Hi, disruptors. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Practice Disrupted. Want more of this between episodes? Start with Practice Rebuilt, our weekly newsletter on the business of architecture at practiceofarchitecture.com/newsletter. And when you're ready to Stop reading about change and start testing it in your own firm. Get on the list for the Lab at practiceofarchitecture.com/lab. We'll see you next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.