S4 Launch: Leading Change Through Entrepreneurship

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

A Hey, Evelyn. Hey, disruptors. Welcome back to Practice Disrupted season 4. Today, we're kicking off our 2022 series. This season, we're gonna be continuing to push further on themes of disruption. Some of the questions we'll be exploring include, how are architects navigating the increasing pace of change? What additional drivers of change have we not explored yet? What business strategies balance better outcomes for both staff, clients, and design? What emerging technologies have the greatest potential to move the industry forward? And what does return to work look like for architects across the country? We'll interview a completely new lineup of disruptors leading industry change and learn how they're thinking differently than what our training and tradition have prescribed.

B We'll also have more content on professional development to help individuals seeking career growth, pivots, or entrepreneurship, and we'll have new conversations on diversity, equity, and inclusion. To help us welcome in the new year and the new season, we've invited Mark LePage, cofounder of Gable Media and founder of Andre Architecture to join us on the show. Welcome, Mark.

C Great to be here. I'm I'm honored to be on the on the show.

B Thank you. We're so honored to have you on our show for once since you, are such a huge supporter, and we appreciate being a part of the Gable Media Network. So let's start this conversation by telling everyone who you are, what your businesses are, and what your passion is in the industry.

C Sure. I'm a registered architect, the president and partner in charge of operations at McCarthy Lepage Architects. So that's where it all started. I'm a partner with my wife who is also an architect. We're based in Charlotte, North Carolina and big aspirations to, to do residential development in the future. I'm also the founder and CEO of Cable Technologies, which is the home of Entre Architect, which is an online platform for small firm architects to access business resources and training to help them build better businesses. And then my third hat is cofounder and CEO of Gable Media, the multimedia network focused exclusively on our community of architects, engineers, and construction pros.

A So, Mark, there are 2 things that I really wanted to cover on today's episode. 1 is entrepreneurship. Obviously, you're the go to person in that realm. And 2 is podcasting. I've you know, given that our thesis is about change, I was really wanting to know, you know, how how have you identified a need for change in the industry and as an output of that, created your businesses, and basically how are your businesses addressing that need for change?

C Sure. And and that's what it's all about, really. It's it all started as a practicing architect. Back in 1999, my wife and I launched our architecture firm and very quickly learned that there's not a lot of information about business at the time for architects. And I always joke that Anne Marie and I make the perfect architect because she loves design and she's passionate about design and she's a fantastic architect. And I love business. I love the business side of architecture. And so the 2 of us together are really successful.

C And so, that led me to a personal blog that I started writing about business and architecture called Entrepreneur Architect. And that blog, there's a community that formed around it in the in the comments. Many of those community members are the same community members that are part of the Entre Architect community at Facebook today, but that community sort of led the mission. Right? The the mission was to build better businesses for architects, And by continuing that blog, that community inspired me to make it into something bigger. And in 2012, I relaunched the blog into a platform for small firm architects specifically to learn better business, to to build better businesses so they can be better architects. And so that recognition that there was no information on the Internet to teach architects business, that inspired me to move forward, to take that opportunity and and create something bigger. Again, led and inspired by the community telling me that's something that they they wanted for me. So that that's how it all started.

C And then even today that it continues to be an evolution of that original thesis.

B So going on that in terms of the evolution of your businesses, let's then talk about the addition of the podcast and how that's kind of evolved into Gable Media. So where where did that start picking up?

C Yeah. The whole thing has been this evolution. I I I really feel I you know, I'm passionate about what I'm doing. I believe that I'm on a on a path. I'm I'm I believe that I'm pursuing my purpose. When I launched Entre Architect, it just felt like this is what you need to be doing. This is you know, people talk about your calling. That is my calling.

C I need to go do that. And so the entire thing has been this faith and certainty that I'm doing that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So it's always been what is the next thing on this path? What should I pursue next? And so the Entre You know, the the architecture firm led to Entre Architect. Right? It led to the blog, which led to Entree Architect. Entree Architect led to this community exploding and becoming a global community of small firm architects, which then led to the Entre Architect platform where we have, a membership and we have mastermind groups and business resources and all kinds of things there, courses and and training. And and then that grew. And then I I launched at the same time, I launched entreearchitect.com. I also launched the Entre Architect podcast.

C And I launched that as my 12, 12, 12 mission on December 12, 2012. I wrote in the blog saying I'm going to do something life changing for me. I'm going to going to do something or commit to something that's going to change my life and hopefully, it will make the world a better place. That was sort of the mission. And then December 12, 2012 at 12:12 PM eastern time, I launched the first episode of Entre Architect podcast. And that again was a a an evolution. I was writing the blog. The next thing I wanted to do is take it to audio and I created the podcast, which then led to Gable Media.

C I don't know how many years later 2012 to 8 years later January 2020, I asked Jeff Echols, my my director of brand strategies here at Entre Architect, longtime friend, longtime supporter of what we're doing. I asked him if he wanted to create a podcast, our second podcast. So a second Entre Architect podcast. And I also was good friends with Demetrius Lynch, who is my cofounder at Gable Media. At the time, he was and still is the host of Space's podcast. And I asked Jeff and Demetrius to come together to create the build your brand podcast. Jeff's brand is, that he created at Entre Architect is build your brand. And so I put those 2 guys together and said, go build a podcast for Entre Architect.

C And that was pretty much the extent of my responsibility on that show. They came together. They created probably I would say one of the best podcasts, in in architecture in in the world. I really think what they did there was really, really successful, And there is going to be a season 2. They're working on season 2 now. It's been a while. So just anybody listening, season 2 is coming. Be patient.

C But in that, we learned that that there was this opportunity. Demetrius and I worked well, really well together, but we also saw that there was this void or this opportunity to do that for other professionals. People who like like Evelyn that already had a platform with practice of architecture and others who have other platforms who either are speaking or have websites or doing some other leadership skills, in the profession, but wanted to expand it into podcasting. And so we we created the Gable Media to sort of provide the resources for professionals in our industry to be able to extend their platforms into audio. And so today, Gable Media is not only the home of Entre Architect and Spaces, but also Practice Disrupted and Troxell. And right now, we have 10 podcasts, 2 video channels. We have, 3 podcasts in development through Gable Media, and we're talking to several more current podcasters to join our network. And so we're really creating this this place where we inspire and entertain, and ultimately share knowledge with the world about what architects do and how we do it.

B You're stirring a lot of different pots. So how do you That's

C for sure.

B How do you manage your time? And where do you choose? Like, is there any seasonality to what you're doing too in terms of creating creating balance? Because you're if you've if somebody is a close social media friend of yours too, you know, you have all these great projects that you're doing at home, on your own house. Right? And you're also getting away on weekends to see your son compete in in rowing. So what is the planning around where you put your energy and where you put your time and and passion towards look like?

C Yeah. And and my daughter is a swimmer too, so we're also doing swimming. And so I don't wanna leave her out. Yeah, I'm doing a lot. I have a lot of hats. It is all inspired by the passion that I'm on on this path. And so I work hard. Right? I work a lot, a lot of hours.

C But my family comes first, and so that's why my family is is, you know, I am very active in my family. When Anne Marie and I launched our architecture firm in in 1999, We did it at home. We did it intentionally as partners. We came together. We could have both gotten jobs somewhere else. We came together in 1999, launched it out of our basement with the intent that we were going to raise our family together. And so by being able to do that, by being entrepreneurs and launching our own business, now we have control. We can do what we want, when we want.

C And so we have integrated our firm and our businesses and our family, Although that's getting more and more difficult with the hats that I keep adding to my head. But but we still raise our kids together. Luckily, they're older now. One's in in, Syracuse University. One's a senior in high school, and another is a freshman in high school. And so it's much easier today, with with Furman family, but but the integration of the Furman family intentionally from the beginning. So we can work when we want to work and create our own hours and create our own rules, and expectations with our clients that we built the business the way we wanted our business to run. And Entre Architects has been part of that too because originally it was just me explaining how we were doing what we were doing.

C Right? And so I was inspiring other architects to embrace that that mindset that, you can have a family and a firm. You can, have a personal life and go out with your friends and be successful, much of it takes intention, takes planning, and it takes the understanding the fundamentals of business. You have to understand business. You can't just wing it, right? You have to understand that there are there are rules in financial management that there is marketing that there's branding that there are sales and you have to do all of it None of it none of it is optional Right architects for generations have practiced the profession of architecture as an art, and it really is a science. It is a business. It is a game that if you learn the rules of that game and you play them well, you succeed. And if you succeed, specifically financially succeed, then you can be a better architect. You could spend more time on your architecture.

C You can spend more time with your family. You can build a better team. All of it depends on financially being financially successful, as a as an entrepreneur, and ultimately as a as a successful business owner.

B So one of the things that you didn't talk about is kind of the next evolution of what you're calling the, you know, the GTN 4 a or the Gable Tech Network for Architects. So I just wanted to make sure you had space to Yeah. Kinda tell your audience yet another thing that you're adding to all of the hats you're wearing.

C Yeah. It like I said, it's all a path. And I and that isn't that is the next step on the path. Right? It went from architecture to to a community, to business resources and training, to a media company. And now we have this community. Right? We have thousands of architects who who are all together in this community. And I call the Entre Architects community all of the of the world's small firm architects. That's the Entre Architect community, every single one of them.

C So hundreds of thousands of architects across the world are part of this community. And but we're we're an informal community. Right? We're we're not we're a network, right, because we know one another, but there's no formal network. Right? And so the idea behind the Gable Tech Network is to formally organize the community. For those architects who want to be part of this this next generation of, Entre Architect is going to be Gable Tech Network and whatever Gable Tech Network ultimately evolves into. Right? That's the next evolution. But essentially, what it is, at this early stage is is to bring the community to a formal network so then we can leverage that network and connect it with technology companies and create our own technologies, create opportunities for architects to interact with these new technologies. Because there's software being developed all over the world that can use the services of architects.

C But there's no way to connect to those architects. And so the first step in the Gable Tech Network is just to bring us together. So we can go to software companies that as a plug in essentially and say, okay, your software would be even better if it was linked to a 1000 architects. Here's the plug in to do that. Link the Abletech network to your software. And now you instantly have access to a 1000 architects. That's sort of the inspiration of GableTech Network. Then it can go on and on and on.

C There's so many different things it can be. GableTech Network really is the future of what Entre Architect has started and and continues to be, but it gives us the opportunity to grow it into something even bigger.

A One of the things that we talk a lot about in the AIA is the fact that most of the architecture firms out there are small. And so what's unique about your community is that you are working with the sole proprietors. You're working with the really small firms that might have, like, 1 or 2 or 3 employees working for the architect. And you really understand the scale of the microarchitecture business, the needs are completely different.

C Right.

A And so I I'm just curious. Maybe you could share with our audience a couple of the things that you've learned really thinking about that specific audience versus what a general size practice of, like, 30 people might need?

C Yeah. It it goes back to those fundamentals. Right? Because as as firms grow, they do become more mature businesses. Right? Especially the large firms. Large firms have, you know, financial departments and and accountants and lawyers working for them. Medium sized companies, at some point, learn that they need that assistance, right, that support. And so they they work with professionals to help them organize their business. But us small firms don't do that.

C Right? Sole practitioners and really small firms, we weren't trained in business in architecture school. Right? There's no architecture business school yet. And so that is something that has that architects need. Right? Small firms and sole practitioners need is that training. And so that's what Entre Architect was was founded for. That's what it's continuing to evolve into, specifically for that community. We've also announced another thing I didn't talk about. We also announced, the Entre Architect Annual Meeting, which is going to be the Small Firm Architect Conference, which is going to be in the autumn of 2022 in Austin, Texas.

C And that is, again, bringing the community together so we can do what we do. Right? As small firms because we do do things differently. And so there'll be training there. There'll be opportunities to network. And we'll just have a good time there. But it it it is for us. Right? Small firms and sole practitioners practice differently. Right? Even even when we're successful, we're it's a different thing, right? That's why the brand is entrepreneur architect, right? It's not good business architect.

C It's entrepreneur when you launch your own architecture firm You are an entrepreneur you are taking a risk in starting this architecture firm to make the world a better place. That's what an entrepreneur does. And so every single small firm architect, sole practitioner who has ever launched their own architecture firm is an entrepreneur architect.

A I'm glad you brought that up because one of the things that I really wanna talk about is your journey as an entrepreneur because you have made this monumental step from where you started out opening a business with your wife to now having multiple businesses and you're leading thousands of architects in, you know, all of these different endeavors. So how have you grown as an entrepreneur, and how has maybe your perception of either architecture or entrepreneurship changed as you've made that transition?

C Yeah. It's and this is this is a theme that that both of you have brought on this show several times is that architecture is not a given. Right? Our profession isn't isn't granted to us. It it is earned. We have to continue to evolve. We need to continue to innovate. We need to continue to to grow and innovate and evolve at the same rate as the rest of the world because there is technology. There are allied professions in other industries who would be happy to take the work that we're doing, and confiscate it from us, and we will have nothing.

C Right? We will become obsolete and unnecessary. That is a reality, and I've heard you both talk about it many times on the show. That is what from my point of view, what practice disrupted is all about is is is the bellwether that that's happening. Right? That is happening. And if we don't do something about it, we're going to to be obsolete. And so, that is the thing that I discovered very early on that the world outside of architecture moves much faster than our profession. And it's just the way we work. Right? We are creative people.

C Traditionally, we've been like that, but we have to succeed, right, in terms of technologies, which is why Gable Tech network is so important because it will allow us it it it allow us as a community, as a network, to be able to to increase our rate of evolution and innovation within the profession by coming together and being able to to connect us very quickly, with some of those other tools and technologies. That is the most important thing, I think, in the profession that architects need to understand that the future is not guaranteed for us.

B I'm gonna dive a little bit deeper. Well I knew I knew it. We love we love to dive a little bit deeper on these topics. I participate in the Entre architect group a lot. Right? And you get all of the standard questions around codes and and understanding a knowledge base of how do I launch a new business. But what you're talking to actually requires kind of a change of thinking.

C Mhmm.

B So because I'm in the Entre architect group, and they're asking the questions that they need to ask to solve the problems that they're facing today. But it's really hard to get architects to think about the next level. And then a piggyback question off of that is so much of what you just said talked about collaboration, which as much as we talk about how we collaborate with contractors and how we collaborate with people to get our designs built, we are horrible collaborators when it comes to collaborating with each other. So so how do you manage that mind shift change? And maybe even it's through further partnership with practice of architecture so we can get there together faster. Also, have you seen greater you've been in this for a while. So have you seen greater collaboration, and have you seen change in the right direction throughout all of this?

C Yes. 100%. 100%. In 1999, there like I said, there was no information on business. Right? And we were very, very secretive. Right? We hoarded our information, like the secret sauce of our success. Right? There is no secret sauce. Business is business.

C There are fundamentals to business. The ones who who succeed are the ones who learn the rules and play the game better than the others. That's the secret. There's no secret. And so I believe that the things that have caused change, there's there's a couple of things that are happening here. One is that we're talking about it more. Right? Entree Architect was launched as a seed with the culture of sharing. My blog, my personal blog was me sharing everything I knew transparently, which inspired other architects to come to the community and build the community, and they started sharing with one another in the comments.

C That launched into Entre Architect, which again is a sharing supportive place where we're supporting one another. As it gets bigger, there's 75, a 100 architects in that in the Facebook group now. Private Facebook group, entreearchitect.com/group. If anybody wants to join, you have to be an architect. But in that community, the the culture is sharing and support. Right? They we are inspiring other architects to share their knowledge, and it happens every day in that group. And so we are becoming more collaborative. We are focusing more on business and becoming more entrepreneurial as a profession.

C Without any doubt that's happening. And Entre Architect is a part of that. Practice of architecture is part of that. Enoch Sears and business of architecture is part of that. Evan Troxell with Troxell is part of that. All of these different platforms contribute to that. Right? We're all saying the same thing. You have to learn this stuff.

C You have to share with one another, and we will succeed. Other industries share with one another. Right? Tech shares with one another. And so the more we share, the more successful we'll each become. That's that's how I see my purpose. Right? That successful architects when I teach Individual architects to be more successful then their firms succeed and when more and more firms succeed the profession succeeds and when the profession succeeds the world is impacted by that right the architectural profession is literally changing the world. We design the world. We create the world.

C So by me working individually 1 by 1 with 1 architect, right and inspiring that architect to do that again with somebody else I'm literally changing the world Right and which from a dream as a kid, that's what I wanted to do. I just wanted to change the world. That's why I became an architect. Right? Because I wanna make the world better. And I see that happening. There is a trend that's happening. The other thing that's happening is that the next generation of architects come to the profession with that natively. They are coming to the profession with the expectation that they're going to be transparent and they're going to share everything and communicate with one another.

C They're doing it every day on TikTok and and Instagram and not really on Facebook anymore, but they are natively sharing their information. From birth. They've been doing it. Right? So when they become the next generation of architects, we've already started doing that. They are going to supercharge that and they're going to be entrepreneurial and they're gonna be tech focused. And so if we continue moving our generation in that direction, so when the next generation shows up We've prepared that the our profession for them to take over and take it to where it needs to go I am very optimistic and I really do believe that architects are becoming more transparent and more collaborative. The other thing is that it is very hard. You see it at practice of architecture, I'm sure I witnessed it at Entre Architect.

C It is very difficult to get architects to, to join these courses, to, to take these resources, do what they need to do to train. That's why I launched Gable Tech Network. That is the Trojan horse. Right? We're going to force them to because we're going there. Right? And so if you want to come with us, getting in getting the network, entreearchitect.com/gtn4a GTn4a, is the is it's just a list if you want to be part of the network. That's the link that you want to go to and We'll take them there, right? That's what Gable tech network is entree architect Pushes the information right says learn this, learn this, learn this, learn this. Gable tech network is gonna pull them. Right? You're coming with us.

C Get on the train and we're going there. Right? And the other way, it's, you know, you you need to do the work with Gable Tech Network. We're gonna do the work for you.

A That is actually a really interesting shift in mindset, and I'm glad you pointed that out because I know so many architects that feel overwhelmed or they're at capacity with trying to manage their projects, to keep their projects on time, on budget, all those great things, achieve great design, do the latest new code rollout, make sure their permits get through, public approvals, all of that. And and then there's this additional layer that's like, oh, and by the way, the way that we practice the business is also changing and you need to think about all of these internal operations for how you practice. So it's like this one extra layer that I think some architects don't feel like they have the bandwidth for. And what's cool is I think through this process of creating all of these shows and all of this information, it's digestible, almost like a catalog of all of these great pieces of information that you can you can go find something if you're looking for things on talent development or how to start your business. You can go there's a entire network of people who are talking about these things. So it's out there and all they have to do is just listen to an hour or even maybe 30 minutes. So you, in particular, have quite the depth of a catalog with Entree Architect podcast. And I'm curious, like, looking back, are there episodes or moments in the creation of that show that you're really proud of or episodes that stand out that you would really wanna point people towards to look back on?

C Yeah. I don't have any specific favorite episodes. I I am very proud of that show. I'm very proud. There's 430 plus episodes on that show now. And throughout this summer, we went biweekly, we're going back to weekly, in 2022. It will just it will continue. What what I'm most proud of is that it has become a collection of inspiration.

C Right? And encouragement and a place where architects can go to find the answer. Right? A library of audio education. And you can go to entreearchitect.com/search, and you can search the entire blog and podcast. So if you're looking for a specific topic, you can go to that link, and you can search for a specific topic, and you can find podcasts and blog posts all about what you're looking for. And so that's what I'm really most proud of, that it has become a place where architects recognize that that's a resource for them. It is probably the most popular thing, although the Facebook group now is also something, that people recognize. When people meet me for the first time, they either say, oh, I've been following you on the podcast for years. Now I'm starting to hear a lot about the the the community and and context and clarity and what Jeff Heckles is doing inside the Facebook group.

C But the podcast, I hear all the time that people launch their firms by by the inspiration that they've gotten through the podcast. That they followed the podcast first and I gave them the permission to jump. Right? When they needed to jump. That I gave them the information that they needed to figure out how to run the business. Gave them the knowledge that they needed to know this stuff, either before or very quickly after launching their architecture firm. They need to understand financial management and branding and marketing and sales. It's not an option. It is a requirement.

C And if they really do wanna change the world, that's the way to do it, is to build the business and then go pursue your your passion for architecture.

B I wanna go back to the the quote, you know, that you kinda said. Every person that starts a new architecture firm is really being entrepreneur. And I think, you know, when you look at Fortune, when you look at Inc, when you look at all of these magazines that people usually follow, they they see these, you know, these startup companies, these CEOs, and they're like, oh, I am never gonna be that entrepreneur, but but you are. What are some of the basic lessons that architects really need to learn about entrepreneurship to really change their mindset. And I I don't wanna ask a leading question, but for instance, I was literally on the Entre Architect Facebook group, and they're like, we want a software that can do 20 different things all in one. Yeah. You know? And and the truth of the matter is the cost of doing business is gonna be, like, you need multiple different softwares to solve to solve that package. So so what are some of, like, like, the mind shift changes that architects really need to make to go from this artist to entrepreneurship mentality that may be extra hard because we're architects.

C Yeah. Yeah. Well, I it goes back to understanding business and and building businesses. Right? And but I think that's going to get easier. Right? I think that that the tools and technology that are that are coming every day become more automated and more intelligent. You know, artificial intelligence and VR and all the things that are out there, the metaverse, those are not things that we should be afraid of. We should embrace those things and learn about them and how they can make us better at what we do. The mindset that the metaverse is something that is ridiculous and shouldn't be pursued by, you know, intelligent architects is crazy.

C Right? Metaverse is here, and it's only going to get bigger. If you don't know what Metaverse is, go Google it. You'll be amazed at what's happening. And architects can become the leaders of that. Right? We have the skills to lead that. We can we can lead the technology revolution, not follow it, not resist it. We should be the ones that are pursuing it and innovating with it. Going back to the Gable Tech Network, that's another long term plan for Gable Tech Network is to create that platform of technology that architects can use.

C Right? I call it a practice platform that they can go into this platform online, and they can have all of the technology that they need instantly. Right? Almost practicing as a a national firm, but of individual firms. Right? We're just a network group of individual firms, but we have access, the same access that that maybe SOM has or Glenn Gensler has with the technology stack that an architect might need. How that happens, I don't know yet. Right? That's why I said it's this is just the seed. But but once it's a network, right, once we have these this this community network together, we can do whatever we want. Right? And so architects who may resist having to figure out all of that or don't have the time, like Janine said, We don't have the time to do all of that. I just wanna go be an architect.

C Well, that's getting easier. Right? You have to be a business person. If you are a sole practitioner or small firm, you have to be a successful business person. It's not an option. But that's getting easier as technology evolves.

B Where do you go for your inspiration and your own personal development? And are there lessons learned from those that other architects can also learn from?

C Yeah. Absolutely. I love business. That's like I said before, that when I launched the architecture firm, I took the business side, Anne Murray took the design side, and I and that's where it all started. Everything that I've done started from that love of business, and I pursued knowledge about that. Right? So I started by reading every business book I could read. Right? I'd always have a business book on my side in my bag and magazines. Fast Company Magazine subscribers since it launched.

C And so that's where it started. Today, I don't have a lot of time to read. Right? I don't read at all anymore. Now I listen. It's audio. Everything is audio. And so podcasts and audiobooks is where I get my knowledge. And so podcasts, my favorite podcasts, how I built this, Guy Raz, you know, I love everything he's doing.

C Business Wars and Business Movers, both wondery podcasts, fantastic stories about business. Business wars, you know, traditional rivals, Ford and and Chevrolet, Coke and Pepsi tells the history of those those companies so you understand where they came from, but then how they how they competed with one another. Fascinating stories. And it's all about storytelling. I really enjoy the storytelling. A great podcast about business tradition basically about, marketing and sales of creatives is 2 Bobs. That's Blair Enns and and David, David Baker. One of my favorite podcasts is Acquired.

C That's a that's a podcast by Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal who go super, super deep into the history of startup, telling the stories of of Uber and and Airbnb. Today, they tell the stories of every big company, and they go super in-depth, really do all their research. Some of these podcasts are are 2 and 3 hours long telling the history of these companies, including, Slack. Fantastic storytellers. Another great podcast, Fall of Civilizations. Paul Cooper tells the history of civilizations and how they fell. Right? When you listen to that podcast, he's done, like, I don't know, 13, 14, 15 episodes, super in-depth history of civilizations, and it's the same story over and over and over again. This, civilization grew and became dominant and and ruled the world.

C And then famine came and they started fighting with one another and they killed one another and then now they're gone. Right? Sounds familiar. Right? And you could listen to those, those stories of the fall of civilizations. And you're like, oh my goodness. We are doing the same thing. We're fighting with one another and there's famine and there's global change. And that's it. That's not new.

C It's the it's the history of the earth. Right? And we are in it again. Super interesting. And then audiobooks, I am an audiobook Attica. It used to be a business book Attica. I just don't have time to read it anymore, but I really love biographies. I am I love reading biographies of great leaders, whether they're business leaders or political leaders or military leaders. It started with actually, it's it started with the musical Hamilton.

C I I I watched Hamilton and then that inspired me to read the book Hamilton or listen to the book Alexander Hamilton. That led me to Thomas Jefferson, and then John Maris Jefferson led me to George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. And so I read all of these books through audio, Ulysses s Grant, Leonardo da Vinci, Steve Jobs, Phil Knight, 2 amazing, Phil Knight at Nike, Steve Jobs, Apple. Hearing the stories of who these people are and and and how they became who they who they were is so inspiring to me. And the thing of of all these podcasts, and especially the history focused ones, the biographies and the fall of civilizations, is that that that, realization that this is not new. Nothing that we are experiencing today is new. Even the the civil unrest that we're dealing with today and the political unrest that we're dealing with today, it is forever been going on. It is the same story over and over again.

C When you listen to the history of Ulysses s Grant through the civil war and after the civil war, then the civil rights, struggles that they dealt with immediately after the Civil War, literally the same thing we're dealing with today. Right? A 150 years later, we're still dealing with with the exact same thing. It's so frustrating, but it's fascinating that it's not new. Right? We've survived generation after generation. We've survived and thrived. And so that's where my optimism comes is that we continue to overcome, and we continue to evolve, and we continue get to get better. And so by listening to these podcasts and these audiobooks inspires me to keep going and try to, to be a positive force in the world. That's something that's really important to me is to be kind and to encourage others to be kind and to spread love through the world because that's what I think fixes all of the stuff that we're dealing with today is it really is about you being kind to everybody you meet but inspiring others to do that same thing, and even the ones you don't agree with.

C Start with kindness. Right? Start with with encouraging and and supporting, not ripping them down and teaching them you know, trying to show them that they're wrong. That's not the way the world changes. The world changes through love and caring for one

A another. I do really appreciate that about the entree architect community because you will frequently post in there a reminder to be kind. And even as discussions unfold as they do, just a gentle reminder to, treat each other with respect, and I really appreciate that. Because architecture is, you know, taught on this idea of, criticism. And so I think that it's ingrained in us early on to to point out the flaws and look for the errors and look for the ways that it's wrong. And so I do think, you know, back to this idea around mind shift or mindset shift that it's a different way of thinking that we have to be kind of aware of in in the way that we communicate with each other.

C Yeah. I I think I think you're right. I think that that architects are trained to be negative criticism. Right? When we're an architecture school, we pin up our architecture work, and it is the job of the of the, of the professor and the rest of your peers to tear it apart. I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think that's the way it should be done. I think we should show how can this be better? How can we support this person? How can we encourage this person to go farther and better and go deeper? Right? I mean, if somebody just shows up and hasn't done the work and hasn't hasn't put the effort in, that's one thing. Right? Point that out.

C Encourage them to do better. But what about that project can be better? How if we brought all our minds together to this problem, how much better could it be? Right? By just one person solving it and getting you all the credit. What if 10 people tried to solve that problem and we all got the credit? Right? Another opportunity for Gable GableTech Network. You have a 100,000 architects all linked together. Imagine the problems that we can solve in this world. That's really exciting. When you take it to the very far, as far as you think you can take it with with a network, imagine a 100 architects coming together to solve a global problem. We could fix those problems if we came together and collaborated as a as a profession.

A So I can remember when I started trying to learn about entrepreneurship in in school. And I was super curious, like, trying to get my head around what is entrepreneurship. And you've been somebody who has lived it, modeled it. And in this episode, you're leaving us with some great ideas about what it actually is. You've mentioned this idea of being curious and exploring something that you that you're really passionate about and kinda walking through this path that you know that you're on but might not have the full picture for. I wanted to ask, are there other final thoughts that you wanna leave with the aspiring entrepreneurs out there about what entrepreneurship is and what they should be thinking about as they start off on their own journey?

C It is about your path. Right? We all have a purpose, I believe. I believe we're all put here for a reason. And finding that passion. Right? Finding that purpose is hard. Sometimes it's really easy. Like for me, it just, here you go. Go run with it.

C And and the recognition that I should acknowledge it and run with it is is difficult too. Right? Because there are sacrifices that I had to, endure and continue to endure to to be on this path. Right? It would be a lot easier for me to go get a job with Gensler, go make a lot of money, and come home at 5 o'clock and, you know, be done. Right? And not have the pressure of trying to change a profession that's going to ultimately change the world. That's big. That's a lot of pressure. Right? And so the that that but that's my purpose. Right? And acknowledging that's my purpose.

C And so I hope to encourage others to to look for their purpose. And it may be an architecture, but it may not be an architecture. It may be, you know, your path may have included architecture in order for you to learn the skills, in order to do what you ultimately are here for. Right? It may not be an architect. It may just be the skills of an architect that you need. Right? I am fully embracing what I'm doing, and I am still a licensed architect, and I am 100% an architect. So we we can go there if you wanna go there. But, you know, whether I design buildings or not, I will always be an architect.

C And so the recognition of that, that that's my purpose, I hope others recognize that too, to not be afraid to go in a different direction. Right? Your path may may lead you in a direction that wasn't what you thought it was going to be. For me, never in a 1000000 years did I imagine I'd be a CEO of a media company. No way. Right? It's just that's the path that I'm on, And I just keep moving to the next thing. And so I encourage everybody to do that, to to look at where you can best improve the world. Right? How how can you inspire somebody to to be better? Right? To be kinder, to make the world better. If your strength is not in design, then you should go pursue your strength.

C Right? Because your strength is going to have a bigger impact in the world, which ultimately will make the world better. And so that's really what I'm hoping to do. And I encourage others to do the same thing is to is to acknowledge your strengths, acknowledge your purpose and your passion, and just keep moving forward in that direction. And just let it go where it goes. And you will be amazed on the impact that you can have on the world.

B So, Mark, I think that's an an incredible powerful statement to leave architects. And I think there's a lot of architects that are probably going to kind of leave this episode wondering if they're currently following their passion and their existing roles. I'd love to leave our audience with an additional takeaway from this given your history and everything that you're working on in the support of the architecture profession. So what is 1 in addition to what you've just left us with, what is one main idea or lesson on change needed in the practice of architecture that you'd like to pass forward to architects, emerging professionals, and also industry disruptors that may be listening?

C I have a motto that I use and that I encourage others to use. And when architects hear it, their the hair on their their necks stand up, and their hackles go up, and they get really defensive. But then they listen, and they they think about what I just said, and I usually have to encourage them a little bit more. But, you know, it's profit then art. Profit then art. And I know when people heard me say that, they're they get defensive. Right? Architects shouldn't be focusing on profit first, right, or profit only. You know, we're not going to sacrifice our art for profit, but that's not what I'm saying.

C Right? It's profit, comma, then art. You build a business. You you pursue your entrepreneurial, passion because if you're starting an architecture, you have an entrepreneurial passion to start an architecture firm. In order to be successful at that, you need to build a business that is profitable. It must be profitable. You must earn profit in order for that company to grow. Once that company continues to grow and it becomes healthy and sustainable, right, that's where the profit is. That's the fuel for that company to continue to grow.

C Then you can pursue the art at a much higher level. You could be a much better artist. You could be a much better architect. You could have much more impact on the world with your art if you are financially successful, if you are business successful. And so that everybody who's listening should write that down and pin it on their workspace. Profit then art. It's not profit before art. It's not profit instead of art.

C It's not sacrificing art for profit. Right? It's not pursuing profit for sake of profit. It's profit then art. It comes in that order. You need to build a successful business, then you can become a successful architect.

A I understand what you're saying, Mark. I think that those are wise words because one feeds the other. One allows you to take the next one further. And so anyone who really wants to do elevated design at the best that they can can learn from this lesson that it will increase what you're able to produce. It will make you be able to invest in your staff and your business in a way that will champion design at the highest level. So I love that as a closing idea or lesson on change. We are so grateful for everything that you're doing for us to be able to produce the show, to help our own entrepreneurial dreams come true. You know, honestly, since we started the show back in 2020, being able to do the podcast has helped Evelyn and I take our preliminary research on change in the industry further and to practice what we were saying and refine it.

A And and, also, it's it's supported both of us being able to pursue our entrepreneurial dreams. So both at Practice of Architecture and Apostrophe Consulting. So thank you for that. It means a lot to us to have you on the show and to be able to celebrate 61 episodes. And we have 20 new episodes coming up this season, including this one with new thought leaders that are gonna be talking more about disruption in 2022. We are looking forward to a great season and more and look forward to continuing to collaborate with Gable Media going forward.

C Thank you, Evelyn. And thank you, Janine. I appreciate you for having me on the show. I appreciate you for taking the risk to coming to Gable Media with Demetrius and me and letting us help with with this dream of of yours. I'm also very, very proud of you both on what you've accomplished here. Building a better profession has to happen with more than one person. Right? It has to has to be our community. And by having a show like yours that is talking about the things that are hard to talk about sometimes, in our profession, it is making it easier for others to talk about it.

C Right? By having that forum, of a place where we can come and have those difficult conversations about disrupting the profession in a very positive way. I I applaud you both, and I'm very proud of the work that you have done here. And I'm really looking forward to the next 60 episodes.

A Hi, disruptors. If you like the content from today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practiceofarchitecturedot com/podcast.

B Be a part of the conversation by joining us, our speakers, and others in our community at practice of architecture.com/community. Our social media handle is at practice of arch. That's at practice of a r c h. We love to hear from you. Drop us a note to say hello.

A This show is part of Gable Media. You can learn more about other podcasts and video channels in our community by visiting g a blmedia.com.

B Thank you for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.