2022 AIA Whitney M. Young Jr. Honor Award Winners: RIDING THE VORTEX

A This episode of Practice Disrupted is brought to you by Monograph, Arc IT, and NCARB. You'll hear more about them later in the show.

B I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

B Welcome to Practice Disrupted.

A Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine. Hey, Evelyn. Hey, disruptors. Today, we have a very special group of women on the podcast. The 2022 recipients of the Whitney m Young Junior Honor Award, Riding the Vortex. If I have learned anything from the events of the pandemic, it is that I can often learn so much more by listening.

B The AIA Whitney m Young Junior Award is named for civil rights leader Whitney M. Young Junior and distinguishes an architect or architectural organization that embodies social responsibility and actively addresses irrelevant issues such as affordable housing, inclusiveness, or universal access. According to the AIA, for more than a decade, riding the vortex or vortex, a collaboration of African American women representing the entire spectrum of practice, had endeavored to increase the number of people of color licensed to practice architecture in the US. Riding the Vortex is a collaboration of African American women representing the entire spectrum of practice and have endeavored to increase the number of people of color licensed to practice architecture in the US. Following its 2007 launch at the AIA Conference on Architecture, Vortex has directly responded to Whitney M Young Junior's observations on the disheartening history of American architecture. Even today, through the Q1 of 21st century, entry, success, and progress in the profession remain dominated by white men, something Vortex works tirelessly to change. Vortex key collaborators are architects and design leaders, Catherine Tyler Prigmore, FAIA, Cathy Dennis Dixon, FAIA, Catherine Williams, AIA, and Melissa R. Daniel, associate AIA.

B Cheryl McAfee, FAIA, wrote in a letter nominating Vortex, the Vortex collaborators have endured many challenges set by our profession, one that is steeped in centuries of Western European traditions and male dominated values. Through VERTEX, they can channel much of the strength they found in overcoming the adversity they have encountered into an interactive collaboration forum for sharing life and professional lessons with others and similar backgrounds. I think what was most shocking for me in listening to their story and reading about their work was the data that they pointed out. In their word submission, they noted that the number of practicing African American architects has been stagnant at 2% in recent decades. As recent as 1990, there were just 1800 licensed African American architects in the country, and only 30 of them were women. As of the summer of 2021, those numbers have grown to 2,435 with 533 African American female licensed architects. Corey Claiborne, FAIA, who's the executive vice president of AIA Virginia, wrote in his letter of recommendation, 2 words come to mind when I think of VERTEX, impact and empowerment. VERTEX has twice been a part of our annual conference, which boasted nearly 600 participants.

B Each time, they engaged local African American women architects in various career stages to tell their professional stories. Immediately, these stories ignite a dialogue on race and architecture that leads to a cultural shift focused on inclusivity for all. The most impactful part is that local vortex participants become empowered to lead in our state.

C I can't think of just one incident that made me want to, start riding the vortex. It's a myriad of of things that may be interested in in just passing on knowledge that I gained, to others. This industry is can be such a complicated one, a little difficult to navigate if you don't have a mentor or, just some insight, even just someone to listen to or or bounce ideas off of the decision making over time of how to design your career, if you want to put it that way. Just sharing, sharing what information that I gain with people who are coming behind me, that's always been an important aspect of, my career. The mentoring and the giving, giving back to others, I would say. Everything from, should you go to graduate school, what graduate school, what degree, should it be architecture degree, what kind of firm, what firm to go work for, what kind of building types do you want to focus on, you know, it's just, you know, when to take the exam, how to study for the exam, all these things. You have to make these these decisions in order to be successful in your career and you have to make them early on. And, if you don't have someone helping you make these decisions, then I think it gets a little more difficult to be in this field.

C So, a, program like Riding the Vortex which is a support system for those who are in the, in the field, who are trying to navigate their own careers by having several other, folks who look like them and maybe have had similar, experiences, issues and Pass on the knowledge that they've gained, I think it's a very important, aspect of riding The Vortex. My own, father was an architect, so in some ways, maybe I had an advantage, but at the same time, I didn't really know what what he did on a day to day basis. And, he was never, became licensed. And I always thought maybe if he had had a mentor, he he might have gotten licensed and been one of the pioneering architects that we always refer to in, in NOMA, as you know, the people who came before us. But I mean, in his career, he was a architect for the government for 25 years. But if you work for government, you don't necessarily have to get license to to work as an architect. So, that just always, was something I wondered if he had had that mentorship, he would have got had gotten license. And then there may be other people out there like that, maybe they just didn't have someone helping to, navigate their career decisions to, get licensed or just move forward in in their careers.

C Once I gain the experience myself, I, you know, more than happy to share with, others, what I what I learned and and pass it on. So I think, just just an important thing to do. No sense in, keeping the information to yourself.

D My story is unique because I grew up with writing the vortex, if that makes sense. I was fortunate enough to go to a high school where students were allowed to intern. So I think, like, sophomore year, you find an internship. And usually the internship would be surrounded by any interest that you want to pursue as a career. In the 9th grade, there was an architecture program at Howard University. And from there, I was hooked with architecture. That's where I met Barbara Lawrie, Shauna Stallworth, and Ed Dunson. I think Ed was around there too.

D She worked at a firm called Deveron Parnell. I also attribute this to Shauna Stallworth, who planted the seed that I should ask Barbara if I could intern at Deveron Purnell, and so I did. That relationship grew. And not just Barbara, but with other people at that firm. So I grew up with black architects. Like, that was my first introduction into the field. I didn't realize how blessed I was to be surrounded by Black architects or even have the knowledge of how rare their work. This was like decades ago.

D Barbara also was part of OBD, Organization of Black Designers, And I would help her out. So there was this one event at the design center. And I told the story of going to the design center and looking at, like, a $15,000 couch. And I'm like, holy cow. Like, $15,000 for a couch? Who are these people? And I was a total high school kid, like, dripping in. Like, look at this baby here. Like, what does this baby do? Whose daughter is this? You know? I was exposed to it from the beginning. In college, I would go back and have them, like, critique my work.

D They truly helped in navigating the profession. Once I graduated and I came back to DC, I reconnected with Barbara and that's when she did the 200 plus. I was part of the vortex even before there was a vortex. Vortex was always there for me. It was just another event. So and I didn't think at the time it was a big deal. It was just, you know, us black and brown folks getting together talking about architecture. Only when I became the minority in architectural firms, when I became the minority in college, that I realized the importance of us getting together.

D But growing up, it was just like every other day, a group of Black designers that's like, okay. Alright. That's great. Good for them. Let's you know, it wasn't an issue. It wasn't a thing to me.

E The first half of the early part of my career, I was thoroughly embedded in practice. The second half, in academia. Throughout this period, I was also very active in professional service through NCARB, AIA, and the ACSA. In 2000, I was the sole recipient of the NCARB president's medal, primarily for my role in helping NCAR complete the transition of the ARE into the computer age and for launching what was to become ARE 4.0. I was elevated to fellowship in 2002 for my contributions to architecture as a practitioner and regulator. And in spite of my standing as a senior associate at the firm I was with, I found myself jobless in 2003. I was a single mother with a mortgage to pay who had never needed to look for a job. All of my previous positions had come about through networking.

E A few things happened during my first job search, the first in my 20 year career. These things contributed to my working with Barbara Lawrie in 2007 as we conceived the initial Riding the Vortex, African American Women Architects in Practice. I was invited to interview for the architect of the university position. That is the university architect

F for the University of Virginia

E for those who have not been invited into

F certain circles.

E I realized I was just a token so the search committee could check off the woman and minority candidate slot with just one person. That was okay because I used the invitation to pull together my resume and portfolio. That summer, I also submitted my resume by mail and was asked to interview in person at one of the national firms that had recently decided to take root in DC. I arrived early. I was greeted by the receptionist and asked to wait in the beautifully appointed lobby. I waited and waited. Finally, an architect came out of the studio, not the principal I had an appointment with. This gentleman asked me to sit at a small table so we can talk.

E And I had a brief, very brief interview. Needless to say, they never contact me to, let me know that I was not selected for the position. Long before he entered the lobby, I realized that someone in the firm had finally read my entire resume and noted that I was a member of NOMA, the National Organization of Minority Architects. And in other words, I was not going to be a good fit for the firm, even though I had a resume that just about any architect in the world would die for. Before the summer was over, I found a great opportunity where I spent the Q3 of my career doing amazing work, primarily in service to our country. The entire time, however, I tried to overcome the huge disparity in salary between me and the man in the office. I never figured out why the firm thought it was okay for my offer to be so low since the firm knew I would learn the salaries of the men who worked under me the first time I looked at a financial report.

G When I was invited to participate in Vortex, one thing that made me want to say yes was the fact that I did not see other black women architects when I graduated from school and was in the profession. Going to Howard as a student, historically black college, I was surrounded by other black people and also not just black people from the US but black people from around the world and also people from other nationalities and ethnicities, so being in a diverse environment was not a unusual thing for me. So when I graduated and was moving out into the professional world, I remember walking to the one of my first AIA events and walking down the stairs into a huge room and seeing a room full of white professionals and being one of maybe 2 or 3 black people in the room. And for me that was something that I was very taken aback by, but also just as a young professional, not seeing someone who, who mirrored my my own image in my profession. And so being a part of Vortex meant that I was around women who had been professors and became mentors to me and gave me the opportunity to help talk about the lack of black women in profession and also provide what we what we eventually saw was not only just sharing our stories and amplifying the stories but over time, providing the space for other other people to be able to tell their stories, and that became a very important part of Vortex.

B This is part of our ongoing series of diversity conversations to widen the conversation around diverse perspectives and practice, and we feel very honored today to have these women here to share their story about practice, navigating their career, and founding a group that is helping others find their own path into, careers in architecture. So without further ado, we're gonna first start with a round robin to let everyone introduce themselves, and then we'll jump into it. Catherine Prigmore will be leading the conversation today as our facilitator. So who'd like to go first?

F I'll go first. I think we'll go in order of, seniority. I've been in practice for, over 40 years, and, I practice architecture. I've been an educator and a dean associate dean at architecture school. I've also been really involved with NCARB, the AIA, ACSA. I think I'm mainly a mentor in all of those roles. That's my broad interest in architecture other than design.

H Morning. I'm Kathy Dixon. I am a principal and founder of K Dixon Architecture. I've been in the industry about 30 years. I'm also, CEO of WMCRP Architects and I'm a, associate professor at, in the Department of Architecture at the University of the District of Columbia and, past president of the National Organization of, Minority Architects.

G A small thing there, Catherine.

C Thank you.

I I'm Catherine Williams. I currently work my 9 to 5 is construction management for university here in Washington DC. I've done lots of things in my career, along the path of architecture and design, including, traditional firm work, working for a developer, and also working for a general contractor. In addition to the design work and construction work I've done, a lot of my off hour stuff is about writing and supporting, specifically Black women in architecture, but just supporting people in general, I think, especially Black people become architects and get licensed.

J My name is Melissa R. Daniel. Born and raised in Washington, DC. Government sector for 10 years plus, probably gone on 15th. But my passion is, housing, whether it's multifamily or low income or affordable or just trying to you know, housing is a human right. I have a podcast called Architecture is Political. I've been the besides the 2020 Whitney and Young, award. I've received the 2018 associate's award from AIA and, various other.

J But yeah, again, my my passion has always been about, Black and brown women in architecture. So

F I'm one of the founders or founding collaborators of Riding the Vortex, And it was founded or started I don't know if founding is a word because it kind of evolved out of a lot of things. It was started because professor Barbara Lawrie, architects, team architect, who's still with us. She and I were, faculty members at Howard University, and she was applying for tenure and also on the back burner of well, kind of on the front burner at that time as she was getting herself in place to become a fellow of the American Institute of Architects. So that was back when architecture schools started requiring architects or professors to have research, or have a PhD. So Barbara I was one of Barbara's mentors. And we strategized in over a various number of things. She was working on a program called 200 Plus, which she had started. She also taught a class on African American women architects on elective.

F And then we came up with this idea because it's really important for research to have a broad impact. So it was almost it was getting ready to be time to submit for AIA conferences, in 2,000 for the 2007. So this would have been in 2,006. So I, said, well, you know, why don't we put a program together? And that's how it started. It came together really, really quickly. It was the weekend before the submissions were due. I believe they're due on Monday morning or some crazy time. So I wrote the proposal, included Barbara Laurie, myself, Catherine Williams, and Kathy Dixon as the first collaborators.

F The name came about because I'm writing this thing, you know, on a Saturday and kind of through the night. I had to get a sponsor. I I knew enough about the AIA and how they did things that if you had a sponsor, you were more likely to get accepted. So I called, Dennis Mann, who is the director one of the 2 directors of the directory of African American Art Architects. I said, Dennis, you know, can we use you? Can you guys be our sponsor? And, you know, he said yes. I don't think he really knew what he was getting into, but they've been our supporter, ever since. So we submitted and we presented for the first time in San Antonio in 2007. And that's where we got started and how we got the name.

F So, Catherine, how has Vortex evolved over time?

I It's involved in a lot of ways, I think. So when we first started, it was the 4 of us. And, we, you know, sort of did the presentations, each of us sort of talking about our our where we were in our career and had this sort of open forum where people could ask questions, could tell us about their experiences. That's kind of what I would say the first 5 years or so, a big a big part of Vortex was people actually talking about people in the audience, sort of talking about their experiences and and just looking for support. I think in a lot of ways, people, especially who, especially the black women who may have been the only black person, the only black woman in their firms, like this was a way where they could actually talk to other black women in the profession and, you know, find out if the things that they were experiencing were, like, unique to them or like if everybody was experiencing these crazy things, that some of them, you know, told us about. So that was kind of the first few years over time, we started adding people to our panel. When we would do sessions in other cities, we would add a person from that city so that we would, sort of have some sort of like hometown roots there. And then, we've also tried to change up the format to make it more interactive.

I 1 year we did a big sort of like audience participation where we actually put audience, the audience members in groups and had them sort of like talk in a group and then share out, later. And we had like a set of questions that we asked them. So over time I think we've we've just tried to, try different things, within the session but still try to keep to the roots of like it being a supportive place where people feel like they can come and hear stories from others and get support and also share their own stories.

F Could one of us give a little, impression of what it's like to be in a vortex session? You know, what happens with presenters, the audience?

H Or I can speak to, being a panelist. It's it's it's a lot of energy in the room. You know, it's it's very inspirational, being able to speak with people, you know, look, look like you have been through the same, experiences that have you have as you have been through, but also providing, some, maybe wisdom experience that they haven't had or that you need, like, Catherine was saying to support their career and make some decisions in in their career. They can tend to get very emotional for for that reason as well. People stand up and share some very deep personal experiences, and, and it's, it's cathartic in in a sense. People, really it helps them move forward to get that that energy to keep going in in the profession because it's it's a challenging profession. So I I think, you know, it's like a shot in the arm by attending, you know, going through a vortex seminar and, think of the same thing as in NOMA conferences. But it it just helps you with that extra, I can do this and I can keep going that that support.

F Melissa, you followed us since you were much younger. What what was your perspective as, you know, you saw us evolve? What was it like watching vortex evolve from the outside?

J I think what was amazing to me was and, again, it's it's my perspective. Right? Like, my lived experience is the amount of women, black women, saying that they never met a black architect. Like, that blew my mind. Like, I did not know how many women out there did not know that people like them, that look like them existed. This is a a privilege that I had, you know, growing up in Washington DC and being the majority, looking at black professionals, whether it's in in construction and engineering and, like, just being exposed to that. And then traveling to various conferences and seeing women saying this, like, in college, I've never seen one. And in in my office, I've never seen one. Just like, how is this possible? And how isolating it is? Like, that's the that's the crazy thing about it.

J Like, you you're in a room and you're, like, the only one. I mean, it's not just be the only female, but being the only brown person in the room. And, you know, I've had that taste before, my own personal experiences, and it it really affected me. And I always had one thing about Vortex and the people who the panelists, the core panelists, I can always run to and say, you know, oh my goodness. This is my experience. Like, imagine if you didn't have anybody else to to have that conversation. You know, going since 2007, how important how many lives we affected in that?

F Yeah. My my background was a a bit different from most of us. I was used to actually being the only person or one of few, in the room from, you know, my whole career. My dad was a marine corps officer. We when we moved to Alexandria, the neighborhood I lived in, we were actually the 1st black family in our neighborhood. In high school, I was the only girl in most of my junior and senior classes, as well as the only black person in my classes. So, and then my act in my college career, I ended up going to Rensselaer upstate. So someone actually found me from Howard.

F I don't know how that happened. And my introduction to the world of black architects was actually through a conference, the first conference of African American Women Architects, which was in 1983 that was put on by Howard University. I don't tell this story often, but I didn't really know what it was because that was not the world that I was familiar with. So I knew I I arrived at Howard, and I walked up to the auditorium. You have to actually go up the steps. And I opened the door, and I looked in. The conference was already going on. And I was just speechless because there was a room full of black architects or African American or whatever, Caribbean American architects.

F I had never seen that many or actually never seen that many architects at one time in one room, and I had obviously never seen that many black architects. And that's where I I met Barbara Lawrie. So one of the things that I felt in in my career, because my career was actually has always been except for 1 firm in majority firms, is to take the things I learned from having that privilege of seeing how the other part of architecture functions, and having been exposed to a lot of connections to help my brothers and sisters through VERTEX have those same opportunities or similar opportunities. You know, that's how you go about actually planning a conference. You know, a lot of what we do when we put on the programs earlier on, this is way before Zoom time, which we all know how to do this now. How do you gather information from 5 people from across the United States and put it together into a program? You know, things like that. Just learning, some just basic tools that you may not be have been exposed to in a smaller firm or a firm that's led by, you know, a diverse group of people. So that for me, that's and it still is.

F I mean, there are still a lot of of things that I think I can offer others because I've been ingrained in the other world for my whole career. And, you know, that's, I think, a port important part of VERTEX. One of the things that didn't come out yet is the 5 people that present in the in the sessions. We always try to get a range of people from either a student or a recent graduate, a recent licensed person, and then someone from mid career, senior career. And then if we can, we get a fellow or someone, you know, who's been around for a really long time. And the focus of it is really to talk about yourself and you as a person in architecture, not to talk about your architecture so much. I mean, everyone, as always, because we are architecture, but it really is to bring your personal story like we are today to the profession. What have we done been doing the last couple years that's been different, Catherine?

I Well, because of the pandemic, we've done mostly virtual, but that has also allowed us to I think think beyond architects in general, so one of the things that we did in 2020 was sort of make a concerted effort to reach out beyond just architecture professionals and so we did a session with the NAACP, we did a session with the National Technical Association which has architects involved but there's also engineers and people in construction and people in other technical fields And then then just I think there's all the work, like, the fact that we've done, like, almost 25 sessions over the over the years.

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F Based on that research, what is what are we planning to do next?

H We just, the the last one that was presented was a little bit different. I think you, Catherine, you were the host for several fellow women architects, so very seasoned, let me say, veterans in the industry. Yeah. Can you, share more about how that one came together?

F We actually did so much over the, COVID times, as I call it. It it it just it's just crazy. Yeah. I invited the first, well, 6 living women fellows, to do a vortex. And then we also had a piece on Norma Scleric, who was the first fellow. We're working on an article. It's supposed to be published really soon. However, you know, we're so busy.

F We're not sure if we're gonna we'll finish it, but it's it's one of those, like, things that we've gotta do. But that was really exciting. And, actually, in the background, what didn't come out of that is all the information about their careers and all the amazing things they were doing and had done that I had no clue. And that's that group of 6, the reason I stopped there is because we were the early fellows, and we we supported each other as much as we can. You know, those again, the days before Zoom and the days before the Internet and so forth. But, we formed kind of a group of more senior women who made their way through the profession and excelled in in a wide range of activities. So I think because we're in the middle of doing this, we are we all forgot or we're forgetting. We discovered in the analysis of the data that the African American men or the black male architect need support in the way that Vortex has helped women.

F We've increased the numbers from a about a 175 to what is it?

I Now is 5539. It's it's probably actually closer to 550. One of the side things that I'm doing is sort of helping with the directory, which Kathy mentioned was how, you know, the the the sponsor of our first session. So the directory has changed hands from being hosted at the University of Cincinnati to being hosted by NOMA. So one of the things that I've been trying to help with is, as that transitions to a more robust database that NOMA will hold and sort of be able to have those statistics and be able to start using it actually as a research tool. So it's been sort of that. But, like, when I when I was getting licensed, one of the things was the the list was there, but no one had done any tracking on, like, are we increasing? Are we you know, how fast are we increasing? So I started doing that every year. So because of that, I got asked to sort of be on the advisory group that's helping as the directory, like I said, goes to NOMA.

I And right now it's just really a static list online, but the goal is for it to be sort of a more dynamic and interactive tool that, people can actually go to and have more information on the architects who are listed there in the future. So right now the number is 539, but but I know that there's, like, I think, like 6 or 7 people that we gotta add to the list this month. So that's why I say it's probably closer to 550 as far as the women, and then I think, total, it's, like, 2,000 400 and something I don't have in the top of my head. But yeah. But still, like, I think as as Kathy was talking about that number, the the 2% is still, like, has held at 2% probably for the last 10 or 15 years, which is where we see kind of, like, the issue is that that number hasn't increased. Like, even though we're growing in numbers, we're not growing enough to make that actual number go up, and part of that is like the women have increased, like they've gone from like 0.2 percent to now point 4%, but the men haven't haven't, increased their number as fast.

F So our next program, the one we're planning is actually for the men or with the men. We're not sure what will be the catalyst for them to begin to make similar gains. But, we felt that, you know, we could at least give them a jump start, and, that's what we're working on.

I And and it's funny because, Cathy, just thinking about that. I think well, one of the things that just came up when I was, like, looking at the list of people that we were considering is, like, how many people, like, aren't necessarily in traditional firms. You know, they're at city planners or in academia or not on the traditional path of of architecture. So, I think that'll be an interesting thing to look at.

H Right. And I think that's what's been a benefit of VERTIX in general that we've had people from different industries and different career paths on the panel over the years. So I think it helps others to identify with someone who's taken a path more closely to what they've chosen.

I Well, and also to show that, you know, as an architect, you can do many different things. I think in school, we're not necessarily or at least I wasn't. Right? Everyone is taught, like, like, Oh, you're gonna go to a firm, and you're gonna work as a designer, and then you'll just move up from there, versus like there's all these other things that as an architect you can do, which maybe you'll be happier at than, you know, just going into a verb and and, you know, being on that design track or whatever. So

F we've been talking a lot about the program, riding the vortex started as riding the vortex, African American women architects in practice. And but we all we and that was the core of our Whitney M Young Junior submission. We only have 20 pages, you know. So, you know, we wanted to win. So that's what we focused on. But we also, each of us have our own independent but complementary activities. So can starting with Melissa, can you talk a little bit about yours? And then we'll go to Kathy and then Catherine.

J Yeah. So I started a podcast called Architecture is Political. It's where Black and Brown folks talk about architecture. How that come about partly was the way I grew up, and why I became an art why I chose the profession of architecture. And then the other half is to have conversations just about architecture, about having that space. The one thing about Vortax is having that space so we can talk about it. And I I named it architecture as political because when black and brown people occupy space, it becomes political. Whether it's through redlining, whether it's through, you know, any other public policy, it kinda hurts us.

J We're not considered in in any of those things. It's also research as to where I grew up. And, from urban renewal to, again, redlining, to public policy, to just trying to figure it all out. And I don't know, someday solve the housing crisis.

H So I guess my complimentary activity would be, NOMA, National Organization of Minority Architects. I've been a member since, I guess, 98 or so, and and then, contributing to the service, in that, volunteer organization for for many years. Having gone to Howard University, they've sort of instilled in you about, you know, community and service and and giving back, and this is, know my end, Vortex have been my my way of doing that. You know, I started in a local chapter, you know, chapter secretary and moved up the ranks and what 12, 15 years later, whatever became the national, president. And I still, that was 2012, 2014. And in those years focusing on, you know, licensure and mentorship, just visibility of the organization, those, those were things that, I really, thought were important. And then, I continue, in that service with, being a part of the NOMA council, sort of the, advisors to to the great organization. Yeah.

H Just continuing to provide service in that manner.

I So the Black Women Architecture branch is probably the between that and Arc Stories, they're probably the oldest, or the longest that I've been working on. So the Black Women Architecture brunch came about because I met a young woman in DC and, I was had lunch with her, and she was interested in in, architecture. Well, she was, she was an interior designer architect, but was talking about starting her own firm and started and I started asking her, you know, if she knew people like Kathy Dixon and other people who I knew were at senior levels in firms and she didn't. And so, I found it I saw it as a way to connect us in the DC area. Most of us are 1 or the only Black women in our firms. There are some firms that have more Black women, but most of the time on our job sites, in our day to day life, we don't see each other. So that became a way for us to gather annually, and then we did it sort of nationally over the last 2 years because of the pandemic and being able to do things virtually. I had many requests previously for people who were like, oh, we want to bring this event here.

I So this allowed us to do that. Other things I'm working on, Arc Stories is a blog site, I guess, where I started collecting stories from people about their licensure experience, really as a way to, inspire people who are on the licensure journey to realize that everyone's story is unique, but everyone is, you know, doing the same thing but always in a different way and also to share in a way just so that people can get inspiration and to not lose faith when they are find it hard or find it difficult or fail an exam and to see see that, you know, there's all these other people who have gone through that. And it's also been a way to give people a voice who maybe think, like, oh, I don't have you know, no one wants to hear my story, and I'm like, no, and I start talking to people. I'm like, oh this is really interesting, and this is really unique, and I think that just like Vortex, gave voice to a lot of people who maybe wouldn't have been on a panel or thought that they had something to present. I think ARC Stories has helped give people, who maybe didn't think that they had something to share with the world, a place to do that.

J And one of the amazing things about it is that we're not in silos. Right? Like, I mean, when Dixon became president of NOMA, that same year, like, Marshall became AIA president. Barbara Lohrey, she was president of AIDC, and she also received an award. That was the same year I received my first AIA award. So it was just and then on top of that, like, with, Williams, like, I mean, everything that's why it was in. Like, we have a we have a, Desiree Cooper scholarship that we also created together. And then on top of that, like, even all the panelists that we had, like, they are doing amazing things now to to better the profession, to to grow our numbers. So it's it's amazing how we're all connected, and we're such a small group.

J Like, everybody knows somebody. If you don't know them, then there's, like, 6 degrees. Like, you could just I could I could ask Williams, like, do you know this person? No. But I know somebody who knows this person. So it's just it's it's an amazing network, whether you're a part of it or not. You don't even know that you're part of it sometimes.

F And for me, that's really, you know, good part of the reason I stay involved because there was another conference of African American women in 92, which I organized or 91, I forget, 91, 2, or 3. And at that time, there were only 49 of us, and I knew all of us. We all knew all of us. You know, they have it, you know, they have a a 500 of us now, you know, I'm like, actually, I feel old. I was like, wait a minute. You know, I'm I'm I'm dated. I'm I'm out of, whatever. But, I wanna also say that for me, because I was a workaholic for all my career and really had no little time, and I was a single mom, What I do what I did a lot was insert some of the things that we wanted to do or needed to do as African American women into other organizations.

F So for example, I've been involved with women in architecture in the DC area. We have actually, North Virginia, the AIA DC, and AIAIA, Potomac Valley, have a single chapter of women in architecture. And then we also do things with AIA Baltimore. 1 and and that's actually a a multigenerational network, and a lot of us have been involved for decades. It's it's really another really cool group. But, one of the things that we did Melissa and I were 2 of the 5 coordinators or leaders of the 2017 AIA Women's Leadership Summit. So, I don't know if if anyone other than Melissa figured this out, but we were really, really committed to having a African American woman be the keynote speaker, and that was, Dina Griffin. There was actually some opposition to that, but, we we prevailed.

F And, you know, in in a lot of ways, that's because we are empowered to get other people get other people, give other people the opportunities to be out in the limelight that that that deserve it, that may not have the connections to the system, to be out there. So from from my perspective, I'm always in when in the programs that I'm involved with or groups I'm involved with, I'm always trying to insert, you know, this other agenda, which they probably don't have any idea what it is. But it is to try to get more African American women out in in the limelight.

J And I just wanna add something too. It's it's kind of exhausting, to continuously push for representation. You know, whether you're a woman or a minority, it's extremely exhausting to have on your plate. Now every single African American or black or brown that I know has multiple jobs. Like, you're not just your 9 to 5. And architecture is not 9 to 5. You have that. And then you have your family.

J And then you have all these other extracurricular activities that you wanna push towards to make the profession better. Like, no matter what activity it is, whether it's podcasts, whether it's being a leader in an organization, it's exhausting. It's tiring. But yet, we muster up the strength to do it day in and day out. Like, I mean, for this month, I don't even know how many times Prigmore told me that she's tired. Like, she is like, I'm exhausted. I have so much work. But she just she's still here.

J She she she keeps pushing on and same thing with Williams. Like, she the amount of stuff that she is doing, it's ridiculous. And the for the younger folk folks, for the for the generations that are, you know, coming up, unfortunately, they are also gonna be burdened with this because there's still, you know, black women who have never seen an architect that looks like them, which still boggles my mind. I had a conversation with a woman who graduated from Tulane, and she's like, I've never seen a Black woman architect. I made a reference to Chris Cross. Right? Nineties Christian. I don't know if you guys remember this. And the other person was named Chris.

J And I was like, oh, you know, and I made that reference. Then he was like, I was born in 1995. And I was just like, I'm I'm done. I'm over. Like, it's over it. Like, it's over. But needless to say, they have a program because they're tired of the educational the architecture education not being inclusive.

I He's, is is he white? He's white right now.

J It's an endless cycle. We can't

F just No.

I I just bring that up as a fact of, like, it's not just black people pushing this. Right? It's it's also, like, white people who are, like, why is my education only white, male, Eurocentric, and recognizing that that they're not getting everything that they deserve need to see in the profession.

J Right. And the other person was, Michelle. Michelle is a black is a black woman, also say, who went to a Midwest school and then a Southern school. My point is, is it's never done vortex even though we're morphing into something else because of, you know, the times are changing. And there are amazing black women who are already, like, bringing forth acknowledgments of black and brown architects.

I I will say that one of the things that I'm I'm trying to get better at is trying to empower some younger folks to be leaders in things like the brunch and other things so that I can start being more like advisory and not feel like people are like, oh, that's Catherine's thing. And I'm like, no. I mean, yes. I started it, but, you know, it's not it doesn't have to be my thing, right? Because I want if people want it to continue, then it needs to be other people's thing as well. And other people need to feel empowered to start putting their imprint on it and taking some ownership of it, I guess, maybe. But, just, like if it's going to continue beyond me then I feel like that's something that I mean, just like we talk about firms, right? Like the fact that Black firms like disappear because their owners haven't thought about secession. I think, we have to think about that and how we empower the next generation, the next group of people who wanna see the work that we're doing continue.

F And that is, you know, one of the foundational, missions of Flortext. There are several. It's really hard to describe it all, you know, at once. If Vortex wouldn't be here if Katherine Williams hadn't taken over organizing them when I just got way too busy. It just, you know, she took

E it over and it's, you know, we the 4

F of us, it's really unusual. We are collaborators. You know, some of us are better at some things. Some of us are better at others. If we get at a time crunch, we know one of the others is gonna be there to pick up, you know, where we can't come through. And, and that's actually one of the, lessons, I guess, that we want to give to others that participate in the program or hear about the program. It's it's it's, you know, it's it's not about us. It's actually one reason it took us so long to apply for the Whitney m Young Junior Award, you know, because we're not here to get an award.

F But we didn't do realize the value of the award is to give give, us a broader audience, to let more people know about it. And as you heard, it took us a year to put together our submission, and that was an intentional process that we went through. One of the things I think we're supposed to convey through this conversation is how can other people become involved with Fortas? How can others support us? Cathy, do you have any insights?

H I'll start when people can get involved with the discussion or the in ongoing seminars and sessions is just get in touch with any 4 of us or anyone who's been a panelist or collaborator in the past. Certainly, we're still doing those sessions and and are interested in having new people join the conversation and and join the panel. So they can can reach out to any of us for for, if if they have that interest.

I I mean, we do kind of have like a I created an umbrella website, Black Women Architecture Network, which Vortex is under that, as well as the scholarship. And then we have a we have a dedicated Vortex Facebook page, which, I mean, we post stuff that we're doing, but we also, like, I try to intentionally, you know, like, Google search every once in a while, like, Black women in architecture because a lot of times, like, people will have, like, a local article or something like that where, you know, they only only their, you know, local circle. Like, I just posted something about a student in Florida, which I mean I wouldn't have known about that unless I had gone and searched that out. I have some connections in Florida, but, you know, it's not like something that I would would've heard about. So using that as a platform to sort of just elevate black women and what they're doing, whether it's, you know, promotions or awards or articles. The Riot of War Text, Facebook page is sort of a public forum where we can continue that on a on a, you know, daily basis and have that.

J And, again, like, the beauty of our panel is we could be a recent grad, 1st year working. Like, you don't have to be, you know, a superstar, to to, by any means, to be on our panel. You just have to have an interesting story to tell and and be willing to tell it in front of a crowd of people, crowd of new peers.

F To wrap up, do we have some or one inspiring story or memory of the Vortex Program that we each of us wants to share. It was the session where Krystal Satterfield got up and spoke, and I

E think she

F was recently licensed, and the audience was full. This was at one of the NOMA conferences. It's a full audience. Men, women, all ages or places in their career and everything. And she got up and told us incredible personal story about her journey. And she cried and I cried. And that was, you know, when I really felt that Vortex was making an impact. I just felt that from that point on, it was going to do things that we never even thought of.

F You know, we never even dreamed that we could make an impact on individuals. And then that was, you know, transmitted to everybody in the audience that you know? So that was my most memorable moment of, being in part of Vortex.

H I think that moment probably is for for most of us, a very memorable one. I remember that the photo we took at the I guess it's the 2,008, that, BC convention, that was very memorable point for me because just having all those black women together in a photo and, you know, documenting that, that, event and not being alone anymore. It was, you know, first physical evidence of all of us being being together in that way. That was that was powerful for me.

J You know, just after especially at a NOMA conference, after all the sessions are done, you have I haven't been to 1 in a while. But the ones that I remember, it's, like, the elders all gathered in, like, the downstairs local bar. And then the younger folks and it'll be, like, 11 o'clock, and we all get gathered. And we're like, okay. Where we going? And someone so somewhere you end up in a club, and you go to another club. And then before you know it, it's like, you don't know whose whose car you're in. You're like, you're just following. And before you know it, it's, like, sunrise, and you have a session at 8 o'clock.

J So, I mean, I just remembered those days. And, you know, it could be it could be whoever was, like, presenting, whether, like, you're like, oh, wow. It's it's like I don't know. It's like Marshall. Oh my goodness. It's Marshall Purnell. And you're downstairs, and you're like, what's up, Marshall? How are you doing? And you just have a drink with him. Like, it's really that casual and that family and that community.

J So, you know, even though it's not right in the vortex, it's just the the camaraderie and the friendships you form. Like, I remember the same session, and I met, like, 3 people that are friends that I'm friends with today. So

I So definitely Crystal's talk or or Crystal's testimony comments at that session is probably one of the first, and especially, I think, me like, you were talking, Kathy, at the beginning where all of your jobs had come through a network all of my jobs had come through a network. So being in a firm where people were just had that animosity I had never experienced, so that was that definitely is one of the the first things that I remember. And then I also wanted to say that, just talking about the men and the men who have supported us. This past couple of weeks, losing Prescott, I was going through some photos, and there's a photo of him standing against the wall at one of our sessions. So just thinking about him and Ken Casey and other people who have just supported us, through the time, and we were talking about, at the men's session and thinking about that. Yeah.

F Ed Dunson. Having Ed Dunson who was been a stalwart supporter for the whole time. Just amazing.

I Yeah. Yeah. And for me, him, like, being a professor now and then a mentor and a friend now, I think has been one of the keys to vortex. And NOMA, like, always holding a spot for us no matter if we had, like, gotten our session information in at the 11:59 hour, they were like, oh, we're doing vortex. Don't you don't have to worry about that, because they know they've seen, like, how important, I think, everyone in in the organization has seen how important that space has become, at the conference. So I think that's that's also been just very important and just great, great memories over the years.

F You all know what I'm doing.

I Yes. I know what you're doing.

F It's so it's it's, you know, it's like having a child. It's just I just get so emotional when we talk about it. It's just so amazing. It's just amazing.

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