The Next RIBA President and the Future of Architecture

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

A Welcome to Practice Disrupted.

B Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

A Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors.

B So today on Practice Disrupted, we are spanning time zones once again. But this time, we have the pleasure of interviewing Muiwa Oki. Our listeners have heard a lot about the AIA, and this time, we thought it was important to talk about the similarities within the profession spanning across geography. So Muiwa is the president-elect of RIBA. But before we give away the entire interview with an introduction, Moliwa, why don't you tell us a little bit more about your story in your own voice?

C Hi there. My name is Moliwa Oki. Thank you for having me here, Evelyn and Janine. It's a pleasure to be speaking across to people to the folks across the pond. My name is Moywa. I ran for the presidency of the Royal Institute of British Architects, colloquially known as the RIBA or RIBA. And it came from a sort of level of dissatisfaction with the grassroots movement about how we are represented in the profession. I wanted the RIVA to represent me as a early stage, early to mid career architect, and I put together a manifesto over the summer encouraging for my friends to speak up for the future architect.

C And 1 of the key goals was to challenge unfairness and change it and to also create a mindset shift in the architecture community driven by the RIVA organization to make architecture a dynamic sort of the profession in the built environment, especially focused towards the next generation. So I felt it was a ginormous task. I wanted to just be there to to set the agenda. I was hoping to win, but I didn't expect to win. And now that I'm in position, I I feel, immense sense of honor and pride to be someone who is the spokesperson, so so to speak, for this cohort of people. A bit about me, I I was born in Nigeria. I grew up in South London. I liked maths and philosophy, and, moreover, I had a desire to create and ultimately serve the common good.

C 1 of my early influences in architecture was David Adjaye, sir David Adjaye. Most of you might know him because he was the architect designer for the African American History Museum in Washington, DC. Also, I got the pleasure of going to actually see for the first time over the summer, which was fantastic because it had all this rich, like, facade composition. It was referencing different African heritages, which is fantastic to see. And in terms of, like, again, going back to architecture and where I studied, I studied at the University of Sheffield. It's North England at undergraduate and, graduate level. And in architecture in Sheffield was a bit progressive. It was focusing on the human scale, community engagement, and participatory learning, which in some ways, upon reflection, kind of influenced the whole getting up and, talking about the issues I care about and going into somewhat politics, really, if if if you count RIV as politics.

B So you kind of mentioned, you kind of briefed over it, but you are actually the 1st black architect to be Riva president, and you're also the youngest architect to be in that position.

C Yeah.

B So can you tell us a little bit tell the audience a little bit about where you are in your career?

C Yeah. So I am 5 years post qualification. I'm a a manager in a multidisciplinary practice. It's called MACE Group. We are we across the life building life cycle, we do do development. We do some consulting. We do some construction, a little bit of operation while we're at it. And, again, early to mid career architect working in the in a in a field that is not what I would estimate as traditional architecture practice because there is a little bit more technical delivery of what we do.

C It was a constant decision to move from a boutique design to this type of office where there's a slant to construction and construction innovation. That's what something I was really interested in. But yes. Yes. First black architect, not first person of color because we had Sunat Prasad, in 2007, who was the first person of color. Yeah. It's exciting. It's exciting times.

B So, you mentioned the grassroots initiative, but you underwent a unique process to get to the RIBA elections. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? You know, why the Future Architects front started? Because, essentially, you went through 2 elections. I mean, I don't know I don't know if I would put myself through that. But, yeah, can you tell us about that process? And then a kind of follow-up, if that process wasn't in place, would you, 5 years at a university, have have taken the leap?

C The short answer is probably no. I don't think I would have taken the leap. Again, it wasn't my 5 year plan. It was kind of it's an experiment, and we, as a cohort, aided by the Future Architect front, which is 1 of the bigger groups within the coalition, really, we had people from architects architectsocial. We had couple of ex council members, student council members, and ex concurrent council members who were part of this basically, a WhatsApp group. And some of us, we hadn't really met before. There was that sort of drive to make a an impact and also talk about these key issues. The key issues was climate action and membership engagement.

C But, also, I I wanted to add the fact that we needed to get, like, architecture aiming for the top, being as aspirational, being innovative. And my relationship with my current company, Mace, because I'm in the design and digital innovation team, I wanted that that message to be spread, far and wide within the profession. So we came together January, February this year with this crazy idea of because the presidency is up for grabs this year, how about we do this? And we created our own hustings process. Hustings are debates process. First wrote an open letter to the industry setting out our store. We wanted architecture, the RIBA who represents architects, to speak for these issues and to be drama free. That's how it was marketed with the Architect's Journal. They've made that headline.

C We didn't do that. Because, historically, the RIVA presidents have it was always felt like it's been a rite of passage for different people as opposed to being a means of representing the industry or the profession rather. So we did a hustings 2 hustings, actually, and it was the winner takes all. And through my share, wit, and charisma, I won that process, and then I went on to the main RIBA ballot. Because the sort of barrier to entry, while it's not so high, it does require a little bit of effort. And I don't think I would have gotten that buy in if there wasn't that initial campaign to get the the profession of thinking about the possibility of doing this. So 1 of the criteria was to get 60 members to sign and support your candidacy. And without the coalition, the campaign collective, I would have struggled, let's say, to get the 60 votes and move on to the official ballot.

C So, yeah, that was my process. 2 debates.

B Yeah. So for those of you who aren't totally following this, if we were to do it from an American perspective, I guess, essentially, a coalition of mostly young architects or what we call emerging professionals got together and said, we want a candidate that represents us, and then you ran against 3 other candidates.

C Yep.

B And then you were elected from that pool. They jointly decided whoever gets elected from this pool, we're gonna support for rebar presidency. Yeah. And the interesting thing about rebar presidency is it's 1 member, 1 vote. So anyone who is a member can vote. And I remember during this whole process, we're like, okay. So the next process is for us to get a whole bunch of young architects to the REBA polls and convert them into members if they're not to get you to presidency. So this is quite an interesting grassroots effort and a push mostly by the next generation of architecture leaders to get you to where you are.

C Mhmm. Mhmm.

A I did wanna kinda fill in about Reba and just make sure that our audience understands. A lot of our listeners are based in the US. We definitely have some international listeners, but a good portion of our population is US based. So RIBA stands for the Royal Institute of British Architects. And Ellen and I come from the world of AIA, so we know those politics really well. But, I mean, I don't know much about Riva. Can you tell us what is your membership reach? Like, what countries are included? How big is the population?

C It's a global organization. 1st and foremost, it's a charity, and we are sort of directed by the Charity Commission, which is independent body in the UK. We have a global reach in America, Europe, in the Middle East, and Asia, Asia Pacific. We have circa 60, 000 members, about 30, 000 members in UK, and then so, basically, half in UK and half globally. And in the different international regions, we have international chapters, and and they look after the WIVA membership in those locations. So, yeah, that's the basic layout of what the RIVA does. We have relationships with other institutes in different countries, but in terms of we are a global organization. Yeah.

A Excellent. And I know a lot of our AIA friends will be interested in this episode to learn more. There's definitely within the AIA, there's a meeting that happens where the international organizations that represent architects across the world come together. It's called the International Presidents' Meeting. It happens fairly consistently paired with other events that happen globally at other programs, but this 1 happens within the AIA at our annual meeting. And it brings together those international voices to really talk about globally what's happening with architects around the world. So I think a lot of people are gonna be interested to know more about your organization and and some of what you're doing.

C Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. In terms of priorities, I have 3 priorities, climate action, and I'm gonna attempt and seek industry buying and industry leadership on affecting change through the climate action. I would like to collaborate and integrate with other institutes in the UK and globally to fix fix our attention into how we can make change in urban regeneration, in retrofit, in place making. How can we be leaders in doing that? 2nd bit is membership and our and the engagement with that. I would like to get our members more engaged with the processes and services that we have. So this is more of an inward looking bit.

C And the 3rd and final bit is, cultural awareness through digital transformation. This goes back to this bit about architecture being sought after and being in the seen as innovative and, future focused. Those are my 3 aims. And if if I could achieve 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 3, that will be fantastic.

B And your term is 2 years, right, as president?

C Yeah. Yeah. It is. Yeah. So I start in September 2023. And, I mean, the good thing about it is that I have this 1 year period to get to know people and sort of expand my network and understand the organization and its structures. And by 2023, I can September 2023, I can hit the ground running and try to implement the the plan and the strategies that I have developed over the year.

B Yeah. Why don't you tell us, like, what you are most excited about about the future of the profession? And it's interesting to me that you're you're kind of you're not necessarily a traditional craft. You're a little bit more adjacent and technology focused. So where do you see as the greatest opportunity for the future of the profession too?

C I think the greatest opportunity here is to reimagine what it means to be an architect and what we want from architecture. In that respect, I think where architects choose to be of importance, how they do that will change. This goes back to this idea of boutique design practice and or not boutique design practice. I believe architects are designers of the built environment, and we can do that or influence design of the built environment in different ways, whether it's in a policy way or through public engagement way, through, sort of water discipline, digital design way, or through boutique practice. And I think that mindset shift that architecture and architects can practice in different facets is something that hasn't really come to the fore yet. And I think, you know, over the next few years, I would like to start that conversation and push that agenda. And that's that's where I see the future of the architecture profession, to be more digitally focused, but we can do it in different guises.

B There's been a lot that's been going on in the UK regarding the concerns of practices and studios, right, and maybe what you're alluding to in terms of the boutique practice. So this is included in kind of the letters from the future architects front, which we'll be sure to include in the show notes. But can you maybe more distinctly spell out to our audience what those factors were? And I feel like they increased, unfortunately, during the pandemic. And then what is Reba's role in changing those factors?

C Yeah. Yeah. So the main factor was working conditions, and the future architects fronts were fantastic over the pandemic and before that to highlight that issue and take the the profession to task about it in terms of understanding how you treat the members who are a part are are REBA members, really. And it sort of talks to the health and well-being of the profession. It talks to addressing overtime and working conditions. And a significant part of the campaign was focused geared on focusing on how in the next 2 years we can address that issue, bring the profession together to talk about how we can create a more sustainable relationship between the employees and employees, those the means of production and practices and practitioners, really. And I would like to get under the scale of that because it's all about quality of life for me. It's all about working smarter.

C It's about increased creativity and innovation without losing that quality of life. There needs to be a REBA led industry engagement into this to evaluate what the challenges are, what are challenges faced by our practice, our our boutique practices are. And I think it's also a conversation about liberating where the architect works as well, whether it is for I know for you, example, Evelyn, you work in Slack, I believe it is.

B Yeah.

C And you're a practicing architect. And I think our psyche, we should sort of liberate ourselves from the idea that we can only make change in both environment and in architecture as designers in boutique practices. And I think that's just something that I would like to address. But in my emerging strategy, it'll be that we will let industry engagement to update our code of professional conduct because that's where we have the most power. And institutes like Obadis and lobbying group like FAF can actually point to that. Whenever there is a there's an issue, we cannot actually point to an updated code of conduct that talks to the health, employment, and well-being of architectural practice members and chartered practices not meeting that standard that we we set because that's what a membership body is. We we are a membership body because we are above the average sort of minimum standard that a government set, And that's why you want to be associated with the a membership body like the RIB and like the AIA, etcetera. And that's that's my position, and then I think that's the position RIB should adopt.

A Okay.

B So I'm gonna push you a little bit more, and I I know I tend to ask 2 part questions, so that's on me. But what is Reba's ability to truly affect change? So, like, for instance, the only thing that the AIA, since we are a membership organization, can do for any individual that we find misbehaving or not in line with our code of ethics is remove membership. So in the course of creating change within the profession and and the working conditions of employees, Like, removing membership doesn't seem like a big a big leverage, right, to have to change that. So what is Riva's role in kind of this change, and how do you think Riva can affect the change and and encourage an overall health and well-being for not only for the organization, but for the profession at large? And this is something that Janine and I are very passionate about. So anyone who is trying to make this change, we're really excited about too.

C Yeah. And I I think if you go back and look at what is the status quo, what is business as usual, business as usual is actually not even talking about it. Right? We know it's there. It's a problem, but it's like it doesn't come into board level or, like, senior senior management thinking. Or if it does, it's never it hasn't been addressed, so so to speak. So the fact that, yes, I've campaigned on it and I've brought it to attention, I've gotten quite a few sort of senior members of the profession talking to me about it and, like, you know, saying, well, I'm not sure about, you know, if that's, you know, is realistic, and tell me what's not realistic or not realistic. You know? Me signing for president was not really realistic, and it happened. So I am a little bit more cautious about what realistic is in different people's eyes.

C But I think having that conversation, being seen as as as an institute, talking about it, and bringing the 2 parties together to say, look. This is the challenges that we are facing as an employer, and this is why it then cascades back to the poor treatment. Some of the treatments are shoddy and, like, unacceptable. Even some of the the news from the accounts on the FAF open letter was a bit a little bit on the border of good and bad, right or wrong. And I think bringing that conversation to the table and making sure that there is, sort of recommendations for how practices should be set up is something that I think is worthwhile having. And if we get consensus from both sides as as to what the best way forward is, I think that's a good step. But I think that's all should also lead to an update of our code of conducts, but also lead to a different type of business model potentially lead to a different type of business model where we are I don't wanna second guess this, but, like, potentially move into, like, digital first approaches. Because, again, anecdotally, if if I look look back at my time in boutique practices, there was an overreliance on we need to sketch it out first for, like, days on end before we get to the right design.

C And that took hours days, and it was on the whim of a senior associate or something. And if there's a way of, like, sort of I work in a with lots of project managers. There's always, like, a time cost element, evaluation element to everything that we do all the time because we all know that the PMs know all know that. There is, like, everything that you do has a cost or time implication to it. And in the year that I've in the year or plus that I've been here, I haven't really worked overtime. So businesses can run run successfully without requiring overtime to to happen. But then if overtime is required, I believe it should be fairly compensated, and that's where that's my position on that issue, really.

A So I'm so excited hearing everything that you just said. I think that it's encouraging for me to hear that vision and and to know that you're gonna be trying to open eyes to some of these issues. You know, from the moment that I entered the profession, I've just kind of scratched my head wondering, like, why is it so hard for some people to see these issues? And the further that I've gotten into the work that we do on the podcast where we're able to have these conversations, I think for some, they can't see it. And maybe it's because it's not impacting them directly or they don't know how to fix the problem. But as a young leader entering the profession, I just can't help but challenge firm leaders out there to question the business model of practice because we have been at an inflection point of change for the past several decades with compounding change, technology, the way businesses operate, the way that projects are expedited through schedule to get built and increased risk, and there's so many levels of change happening. And if we don't address the challenges of that by looking at our business model and looking for new pathways forward to help create positive working environments for everyone from the top of the organization all the way down to the new person coming out of school, we are missing a huge opportunity to create better outcomes with our projects. And I know I'm getting on a soapbox, but, like, I feel that so deeply as someone who used to have to sit in an office as a new grad and trying to figure out like, you know, what's my place in this profession, like there's so many people out there that just want to know that this profession is somewhere that they can thrive.

C And belong. Yeah. Exactly. I totally echo that. And I think, yeah, we need to rebuild the narrative of architects a little bit. And I know it's not gonna start. It's not gonna happen all in 2 years, but I think if we showcase what good looks like, I think lots of people will buy into it. I'm not saying I have the answers, and I think that definitely comes with, like, lots of conversations, an action plan or an implementation plan that's attached to the the discussion.

C But I think some people have a good heart and really do not want to to put people in that situation, but it's just the way things are. And to fight with the fees and things like that, This is the only way we see how to be profitable, but I don't think profit should be at the expense of someone's, health and happiness.

B Absolutely. So you don't take office until September.

C Mhmm.

B I'm sure your calendar is already full. What are you doing with your time between now and then as you prepare for your new role as rebar presidency?

C So my office has been super supportive about of this whole initiative. They can't believe can't believe it at all. I was like, what? You're doing this, really? And now that it's happened, they're like, oh my god. It actually happened. Okay. So we gotta we gotta sport you as much as we can. So they have they've given me some time a day or so to, like, focus on it. So you have in an hour of my Fridays.

C This which is my focus day on RIVA stuff. And what I'm doing is trying to understand the organization, talking to the different executive directorates. Currently, I'm also a sort of observer member on both the council, the RIB Council, which I'm gonna be the chair of next year, and observer on the RIVA board, which I'm gonna be a board member next year. So just look absorbing things in. Another thing that I have to focus on is this strategy and outcomes bit, my 2 year strategy plan, developing that, trying to do that in concert with the council and other advisers, and trying to make it watertight so that I get signed off for it by the council and board before I start next year. That that's gonna be 1 of the major piece of output over the next year. And then third thing is just, like, you know, networking, get to know people, understand who I need to talk to. The 3, like, constituencies that I'm I'm focusing on are talking to, This whole thing is called in my head, it's called a listening tour.

C I've been out there to listen to quite a lot of people. And constituents I'm talking about is clients, different types of clients. The students in different schools up or down the country, and architecture practices to warm them up to the idea that, you know, there is a town hall coming up couple of town halls coming up where we have to, like, sit down and talk about the real issues, you know, the real issues that will make our profession more collaborative, more sought after, more innovative.

A I was wondering if you could expand maybe a little bit further on what you're hearing about climate change because I know that's another really critical topic that a lot of architects are concerned about and want to move forward. So how are you guys looking at it in RIBA?

C So, currently, we have a 2030 climate challenge. And what I've heard so far is that the adoption of the challenge, it sets stringent high level challenges of on embodied operational carbon and water usage for 2 different asset classes, so domestic and non domestic type buildings. My sort of initial engagement has been people aren't really they're not submitting data. They're not really it's not part of the day to day work, and we need to understand what that barrier is and why that isn't front in front of mind, really. Understanding all that and and trying to figure out a way to make sure that we can get people excited about that, our climate challenge, what it is that is stopping adoption, and see how we can take in more of a leadership role in the built environment.

A Excellent. Yeah. I know that there are a lot of conversations going on around how to get architects more involved at the highest levels on those conversations and kind of like thought leadership capacities. And I think definitely more adoption into bringing sustainable design practices into actual built work. I think more firms need to be doing that in a day to day, you know, scenario.

C Yeah. I think we can take ownership because we specify materials and things like that. I think we can we can take ownership of, like, understanding materials and really understanding them and really understanding the pros and cons and the reasoning behind the reasoning behind why you're going for this material as opposed to that material. I think if we take ownership with that, ownership a little bit of retrofit as well, retrofit strategy, that's something that I I I'm hearing quite a lot about. I think in those areas, we can really push the needle and make sure that that's our pitch to the public, that the architecture are needed because we are those people who we take ownership of of those 2 or maybe 3 issues in the climate agenda.

B Absolutely. 1 thing that was addressing to me that I learned through our conversations in preparation for this and that, you let our our listeners here earlier, is how global REVO is. To all of our listeners who are listening to you and are really excited about where your vision and mission is headed, Is there a way that we can support you? How can we be a part of supporting this change in in Riva? Is there anything we can do to move things forward?

C That's a good question. Well, I think it'll come with the AIA. I think with Kimberly in post, I think, sort of cross collaboration. Because you guys have that your 2030 challenge as well. I like to understand how you got that to where it is right now, the success rate of it, and try to learn from each other. I think that's 1 key bit on the the climate side. And, again, a little bit more sharing of ideas, how you guys get engagement with your membership, what your visions for success is, and and try to make sure that we are in alignment on those issues.

A Yeah. We have a pretty robust committee on the environment in the AIA that, I mean, they know so much about that topic, and they have been driving so much in terms of policy change and resources and documents that I think has helped adoption. And so I think there's always been a really good collaboration between AIA and REBA, but I think, yeah, that's definitely an area where I think there's a lot more opportunity to share knowledge and and expand reach.

C Yeah. Exactly. And I think we maybe we don't wanna reinvent the wheel. And and, here I don't know. I'm not speaking out of turn here, but I think learning from the path that others have taken and so that's get there faster. I think I have a friend who works in Google, and they said, you know, stealing with pride. You know? Like, see see what's good out there and make sure that you you're absorbing and you're taking that information and making sure that, basically, both parties are are are learning because there's a common goal that we we're trying to achieve here, which is a safer planet to live in for the future. And how we get there, we can share the parts together.

A Great. When you get to the end of your term, what do you hope you will have done with your time in this position?

C Well, I would I would have hoped to have started conversation on reimagining what the architecture profession. I would love to get a much richer, much younger, more diverse cohort of members engaged with RIBA and architecture and the governance of architecture. And, also, I think I would like to have made an impact in the public perception of what architects do and what architecture is, really. I think those are the key key bits, like get young people engaged and get people engaged, really.

A We're cheering you on. So if you need anything, let us know. We're cheering you on. I know we're across the pond, but

C Oh, cheers. Thank you so much.

A Hi, disruptors. If you like the content from today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practice of architecture.com/podcast.

B Be a part of the conversation by joining us, our speakers, community at practiceofarchitecture.com/community. Our social media handle is at practice of arch. That's at practice of ARCH. We love to hear from you. Drop us a note to say hello.

A This show is part of Gable Media. You can learn more about other podcasts and video channels in our community by visiting g ablmedia.com.

B Thank you for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.