Leading a Culture of Mentorship

A This podcast is sponsored by Autodesk. Autodesk has been a part of the design conversation since 1982, providing the tools that help architects around the globe imagine and create beautifully designed, memorable buildings that people love and admire.

B Thank you to Autodesk for supporting the work of practice disrupted and helping us bring the architecture community together, sparking curiosity and leading vibrant and necessary conversations with the industry's and bot leaders. I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

B Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors.

A Today, we have another long time friend joining us. Ben Kasdan is an architect and principal at KTGY in Washington DC. He spent the 1st part of his career based in Southern California and is actually a past AIA California president. Ben had a really successful term with and helped to establish some of the foundational work that position the component on the path of expanding their work with emerging professionals, climate action, and more.

B Throughout his career, Ben has been a champion for emerging professionals. Because of his passion on this topic, I thought he'd be the perfect person to join us on the show, To go into a deeper follow-up conversation related to mentorship, specifically inside the studio and in relationship to project work. The trajectory that Ben's career has been on is that of a designer, and he's worked on many complex projects, which we'll talk about in the episode. But my hope for today's conversation is to get really into the practical side of mentorship. You know, often we think about mentorship as this external thing that happens. You have a mentor who helps pull you through your career, but what we're gonna talk about and make the argument for is mentorship Actually, down at the project level and discussing the responsibilities that we have as an industry to support our team members and individuals who are navigating career growth in the face of tough clients and really tough deliverables. So, Ben, I'm so excited. I know today is just gonna be, like, a really fun conversation among friends.

B Welcome to the podcast.

C Thank you so much for having me. It's been really a joy to watch you all launch this podcast and see it grow. And It sounds a little bit silly, but I'm actually really kind of excited, stoked, honored to be here. So looking forward to this conversation.

B Yeah. You're so welcome. I I'm stoked because well, you and Evelyn are, like, 2 of my leaders that I grew up with when I was coming up with my career in California. So, like, I'm just I honestly, I was telling them before we hit record, I think today's gonna be pretty, like, personal conversation about real experiences we've had in our careers. So you tell our audience about you from your own words and what what you're doing and where you're at?

C So I started my career at Ksitui in Southern California. I spent about 15 years there, and it's a completely different place now than it was before, which has been really great, and I've been able to be a part of its transition. And In 2019, I was offered the opportunity to move coasts, and I've been coleading the studio that focuses on high density housing. So we do all all different population types, all different affordability levels from housing for the unhoused to market rate, to affordable families, affordable seniors, student all these things. And I I co lead a studio in DC with about 40 people. And before I left, I was the president of AI California, and I I ran on this platform of doing less things but focusing on those things more deeply. And and the things that we really focused on were climate action and and the support of emerging professionals.

B So in thinking about how to structure this episode, you know, knowing your love of Supporting emerging professionals, like, to help them grow in their careers. I I wanted to talk about the complexity of actually Bringing people up in practice because this seems to be, like, a really challenging topic in our industry right now. I think you can talk to anyone at any office across the country in here that they're struggling to hire talent. And then the demands on project leaders' plates 2 are pretty serious right now, and so that's causing, you know, training and talent development to sometimes Take a back seat in in support of getting project work done. What does support for emerging professionals look like inside of a firm? Yeah.

C It it's a huge issue. And I don't think it's just for our profession. It's probably for our whole culture and The idea of nurturing and empowering the next generation is crucial to our Long term viability as a profession. And I approach mentorship a little bit Differently. I didn't realize that it was different until later, but I don't see it as an arrow. I see it as a circle. I mean, the the people that have less experience than me teach me things all the time. And I think the the key is to be open to that as a possibility.

C I realized reading a book called, multipliers by Liz Wiseman that she really crystallizes My philosophy in a way that I I couldn't quite articulate. I I have this hashtag that you'll see 1 team, 1 dream, and I used it with my family. I Used it with the marching band that I was the drum major of in high school. I I use that a lot. But, really, the idea is that The goal of the leader is to inspire, to stretch, to to pull, to grow, To to get the people that they're leading to realize potential that they didn't even realize they had. And how Liz Wiseman puts it is this idea of multiplying people. And to use a real life example, kind of the historic model of apprenticeship or, Yep. Design leaders in particular is that there's 1 person that that has the fat pen and they they take their idea And they hand it off to the next person in line, and that person draws it more precisely and and maybe has the freedom to fix any issues, But they don't really have any say in the concepts or in challenging the assumptions in any way.

C It's it's really you're you're taking 1 idea and you're adding precision, and then the next is adding refinement, and and that that's it. So it's additive. So the the idea is only as big as the the first person's imagination or experience or perspective, where I try to do something that's more open ended. We approach any design, And everyone on the team has an equal voice. And it doesn't matter if you're a summer intern or a person with 30 years experience. A good idea comes from anywhere, and we challenge each other on our team Just to make every idea better. And what happens is 1 idea gets synthesized with another person's perspective or or their Take on that idea. And these ideas aren't just added together, but they're multiplied.

C And that lends itself to a more Joyful experience in designing, and it also jump starts their professional growth from the beginning of their career.

A So I think the model that you're talking about is very indicative to this whole move from leaders being p like, task managers tools to leaders being coaches. But I think what's also interesting about the what you're talking about is it it enables more feedback loops throughout the process. Like, right now, I feel like a lot of people get most of the feedback at the end of a project or at their annual review, but I feel like this also enables them to get constructive feedback or an additive eye of ideas throughout the process. I guess my question to you is, how do you manage that expectation? How do you set that expectation of the team at the beginning of a project, especially if somebody is new to the practice?

C It's a very good question. And especially in my experience, a lot of The best designers are kind of introverted, so it's not in their nature to jump into Sharing their own ideas, especially if they're new. And the perk is that I'm actually kind of shy too, so I understand. And everyone is a little bit different, but I I really take And a systematic approach to make sure that I'm able to connect with everyone. And we really just set the the tone from the beginning. And Some people like being called on then. And then what do you think, Evelyn? Some people hate that. And figuring out What kind of prodding is inspiring versus terrifying is part of the job for me.

C And so on people that are shyer, I will often just connect with them 1 on 1 separately. And what what do you think about this really? And pretty quickly, even the shyest members of of my studio You get to feel the the trust and the safety of our circle, and and they're they're able to contribute because of this community that that we've sort of built around this idea.

B I'm really glad you brought up trust and psychological safety because I would say I I had a really hard time just to be honest, like, I really struggled with some of my experiences trying to work in practice and learn how to become an architect. I think that people have good intentions in practice, but one of the things that I kept observing is People have differences of opinion on their individual learning preferences and individual communication preferences that Become a barrier to actually connecting with other people. And so come back to that idea that you're talking about at the top of the episode, it's, like, It's about a culture shift. Like, what we're talking about is culture, and the way that you create that culture is through trust and, psychological safety. So If I don't feel safe with the leader, you're not gonna get your best out of me. Whereas, like, in this conversation with both of you, I feel such a deep sense of trust, I'm more likely to come forward and open up and be more vulnerable.

A Yeah. It's also interesting for me when we're looking at kind of the future of work and hybrid and this notion of trust and psychological safety is, you know, architecture architecture and architects want to be the most innovative individuals. And it's not necessarily the time and the room at a charrette together that drives innovation. It is the trust in psychological safety so that everyone feels that they can have voice and actively participate that that truly drives innovation.

C I agree so much with with with both of you. And Picking up on one of the the the pieces that you said, Janine, about the method of communication, people prefer a certain method And it is irrelevant what my favorite method is because I'm trying to Get my team to perform at a higher level than they even know they're capable of. So I have to work at their most comfortable in order for them to be able to operate at that high level. And if I'm, forcing them to do it my way, whether it's communication or stylistically or one idea versus another, Then, you're going back to the Liz Wiseman Weitzman multipliers terminology, then I'm diminishing them. I'm not multiplying them. I'm Limiting their potential, not expanding it.

B So that's a really good topic to discuss. So, like, I think it's one of the biggest challenges that any mentor or architect faces in trying to work with teams and individuals Is there's your comfort zone. So when you start out in practice, you know, where you feel like your best is at in terms of What you can design or what you can deliver on project deliverables may be at one level, but to be a great architect, You have to kinda move past that comfort zone and move into new skills that feel really uncomfortable when you're trying to learn how to do them for the 1st time. Like, Let's just take code as a really easy one that everyone can agree is painful, you know, and you can apply that across so many different topics that you're trying to learn at the same time. So what have you found as helpful in terms of approaching that with individuals to get them to do their best, to get them to, you know, reach just a little bit further?

C It's a great question, and it the answer is different for everybody. Again, like, I have to find what really works for different people. And I think a a lot of times when I describe this idea of this culture that that we're trying to build together. People think that it's always like this overwhelming positivity. And it it is. It it's optimistic for sure, but it's also grounded in high performance. So we have to be able to give each other feedback on when you do something wrong. And I am I'm not afraid of making mistakes, and I expect it.

C And it's Okay to make mistakes as long as we learn from them. And sometimes those conversations are hard with team members. And I have to be able to put myself in these uncomfortable situations to to push them to grow. And The only way it works is that this this culture of trust, they they understand that I I truly do want the best for them. And Not everyone totally responds well to to working on our studio. And and that's okay too. And I I think the key is really just Knowing that we're we're really looking out for everyone's best interest. And, hopefully, it's staying on my team and working with me for 20 years.

C Would be amazing if everyone did that. But, I know that's not exactly gonna be the reality of it all. And And truthfully, I I want them to succeed wherever they go. I prefer to stay with me because I don't like change. But And I also get it very attached emotionally. But, you know, it it's just about being really honest. And so You're using your code example, like, let's work through it. And I I let people take a shot usually on their own and see how they do.

C And if they get it right, then we talk about, like, alright. Now where do we go from here? What's the next big thing that we can take a step? And if they don't, then We try to get next time when we talk about, like, what it should be, and and most people like that freedom rather than, like, just delisting out these, like, Set the red lines in this task or whatever.

B So I wanna build on that idea because I I think there's another invisible tension at play that we could talk about, which is really around the push and pull between learning and Getting work done because you have a deadline that's Yeah. Really rigid and usually on fire. So how do you manage around that in a way that's more people centric and avoids this culture of downward pressure?

C We try really hard to recognize when is the time to kinda go all in And when is the time to not. And our culture and our profession has this obsession with time a little bit and like, yo, you gotta put in your time. You hear that all. I don't care that much about time because people work at different rates. And I can think of a couple Designers that I've had the joy to work with that can do way more in 1 hour Then I can and then a lot of other people. So time is a measurement of productivity, I think is Maybe overrated or irrelevant even. And so when we have these pushes and and the deadlines on fire, We go all in on it, and we we try to manipulate the other schedules in order to move people to help if if they can. And when it's not on fire, We're way more chill about it.

C And so we try to to enjoy the moment of Not being on fire. And then when we're on fire, we're we feel like we're all in this together. And even if, you know, there's we have about 9 or 10 designers 2 on our team. And maybe 5 or 6 of us are working on a big project deadline. So even those other even on this project, They are still feeling like we're in this together. And and they're maybe managing other deadlines, and it's just again, going back to that 1 to 1 dream mentality.

A So there's a lot of changes that happen, I think, when it came comes to developing individuals as we went that the pandemic kind of has created, right, with the new desire for a more flexible work schedule too. And if you look at the billing index, the AIA billings index, you know, I think the last 3 months, people have been complaining about the talent shortage. So what do you think are the biggest challenges, I guess, right now facing staff and talent?

C Transitions are always hard. So we're transitioning right now out of Pandemic situation where there was amazing flexibility and there's there's pressure to be in person again, But not all of the infrastructure that existed before the pandemic exists. And I'm gonna use the personal example of Just the school infrastructure. So I have a 14 year old and 11 year old, and they're in school. And I I'm not able to drop them off early, and I'm not able to pick them up late. So my wife and I my wife works at Kitchen UI. She runs the r and d studio. The 2 of us have this crazy choreography to try to get kids to and from school, where before the pandemic, there were these systems that existed.

C 2 So we could drop them off early and pick them up late? That doesn't exist for us anymore. And so The pressure that we're feeling on this transition, everyone else is feeling too. And maybe it's not exactly the same Struggles that that Marissa and I and our family have, but they're having struggles too. And it almost doesn't matter what they are. So we have to remember as leaders that people are dealing with a lot of things, and and how how I How to manage it with with my team is that I don't care that much where you are as long as we're still doing good work. And When we have the privilege of being together, we try to make the most of it. We try to go to lunch or we bring in food or or we, like, Hopefully, we'll get to go happy hours together again. And and just as these things sort of Open up.

C We're we're just more deliberate with the time that we're together. And then when we're when when we're not together, there's a power in that too. And we try to take advantage of that flexibility to help them as well.

A Yeah. So I feel like so and this goes back to the apprentice model again. Right? I feel like so much of the concerns that I hear from principals, especially you know, this this episode is airing right around graduation. We have a lot of new grads coming in to the practice. You know, have you changed how you mentor those individuals now that you have this more flexible way of working?

C Yes. So we always sort of did it that way. We just are have more tools Do it. And the key is is meeting people where they are and what they need. And that means both in terms of Leadership style and and mentorship and and finding what catalysts really do inspire them. And it also means Just the tools of communication, whether it's doing a a a virtual meeting versus a phone call versus a text message versus a Black message or an email or or everyone responds differently. And if people don't like being on camera all the time, then just call them on the phone. And if they like to have this kind of eye to eye contact, then we'll have Virtual calls then now we have all these tools that we're able to use.

C So it's almost easier now in some ways.

A So what do you say to the principles that are like I have that intern that, like, never reaches out to me. Right? How do I know that they're growing? I don't know what they're working on. I I guess the biggest concern right now, especially with the younger folks, is that they we we don't have eyes on them. And then the 2nd concern also is they're not in the studio environment, so they're not absorbing all of these ambient conversations. I I guess, what would your response be to that?

C That's a very real conversation that I've had. So It starts with having the right people. I mean, I don't think that If you don't trust the person, that them sitting next to you makes you trust them less. So It doesn't really matter where you are when it comes to the draft. But when it comes to new people, it's hard to build a relationship Purely on a virtual environment. Not to say it's impossible, because we've definitely done it and it has worked. It's just harder. But again, going back to being deliberate with with where you are.

C And and so With with new people that you don't have a previous connection to, it's nice to to meet them And to spend some time in the same place at the same time. And that is able to sort of lay the this kind of relationship groundwork That you're able to use for this virtual relationship. And I think The the challenge of not being able to know what they're doing is is a leadership issue. I don't It's on the the the person. I think it's on your style. And you have to change if you wanna reach that person or change the way you try to reach them. Otherwise, you're gonna lose them because there's lots of other choices. They don't have to work for Your company or even in this profession or in this profession the way that you are practicing.

C And so if you want to have the best people, you have to find a way to keep those best people inspired and engaged. And that might not be the way that you like to be engaged, and that and that's okay. 2 And and in some ways, that's better because that means you're getting a different perspective, and different perspectives are what make Design solutions better. Like, the more perspectives that we can bring in, and that that goes back to this open ended design process that we were trying to build. More perspectives, more empathy, that is building up more holistic design solution.

B Okay. Now I wanna go into this deep dive on design has always been this really rigid, controlled thing, especially If we look at how it was how it's been taught up until this point, very, very, very hierarchical. So What you're describing and your design leader is I want you to kinda tell us, you know, that that approach is so in contrast to what what you're describing. How do you think we should shift as an industry?

C Yeah. I I I realize that it's different. So again, I have the, I don't know, unique perspective of not really Working in another environment, I have lots of friends with you. I entered a different firm that was also kind of similar to what I'm describing as well. So, 2 Really, I'm, privileged to not know any difference, but I honestly believe that we're getting better design quality out of this process than the, you know, single source of 2 Inspiration model that is sort of celebrated in in the books and in the movies. And I think that just limits The amount of input because say, I'm the the only voice. All we have is my experience and my perspective and, Yeah. I can read lots of books and go lots of places and get a lot of experience.

C So maybe that could be a rich palette, But it's not as rich as if I get 4 other people's experience and travel and and perspective and Empathy that be added into the mix, and I think that makes for a more layered, a more thoughtful solution. And there's probably lots of examples of the old model. I think a lot of those we know and love are probably be created in that one model, and that's Kind of impressive, but I don't think that's the future. That's the past. And those buildings already exist. And the buildings that we're designing now for the and for the future need to be more layered and more thoughtful and need to appeal to the different 2 Perspective whether it's sustainability or or equity or demographics or whatever 2 Happened to be the issue, and most of our projects now deal with all these issues and more. And so the more inputs that we can add to the design process are what will be required. And, lastly, it's way more fun.

C Like, I can't imagine enjoying the pressure of being the only source inspiration for these projects that just sound awful. And, yeah, it's not what I know, but It's fun when we when we rift off of each other and someone has an idea and another person is able to to take that idea and and We get in a way that we hadn't thought of before, then the next person adds to it further. It's it's sort of like a game, And it's more joyful experience for all of us on the studio that way.

B I think one of the underlying things that's going on in this conversation about mentorship is is that we're we're really talking about soft skills and and the ability to understand people in the context to working and group dynamics. Soft skills, I think, is an incredibly hard thing to teach. And to your point earlier, sometimes people, it's not their, like, natural language in in terms of how they're thinking about their work. So I guess the question is really about how do you define soft skills? How do you think about soft skills? How are you thinking about that in the context of your team and how you show up as a leader?

C It's, I like how you put it. Soft skills are hard to to find out whatever I remember you just said that was really great. It's hard to teach. The funny thing about it is it all comes back to the work. And so if you wanna get the best possible work, you need to find A way to inspire every person. And that way is different for every person because the people and every person is different. And so it's less about learning some set of skills as a leader and it's more about trying to connect with each person on this individual level. And if you're able to Discover what makes them excited about their work, they do better work.

C And it's funny because we really haven't talked about, like, the business from, like, a business perspective at all. But What I'm talking about is the business side of it, really, and trying to get people to do their best work as quickly as possible. And that that sounds a little bit callous when I say that out loud, but we all have to do projects that are successful And that meet the deadlines and and meet the budgets and all those things in order to keep going on that next one. And so it's kind of a way to approach it, but soft skills are are really about Getting to the best work. And some people are more suited to figure that out, but the ones who aren't don't have those high performing teams

B Yes.

C In 2023.

B Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. You read my mind. This is really what tripped me up and why I was like, I I swear, I I think I could've been a really good architect, But kinda navigating external factors that happened, but also, like, things that were happening inside of, like, my experience trying to practice. I I just felt like I was swimming against the stream a lot of the time. And, one of those things is that I think Technically minded architects struggle with the soft skills. I don't think it's really as recognized, And it's really unfortunate because I think it's this like you just said, it's the secret ingredient to if you want someone to show up and Do their best work, figuring out what's important to them, and then getting them excited about the work is the Puzzle to unlock.

B Otherwise, if they're not engaged, they're gonna leave or they're gonna they're not gonna deliver their best work.

C Which is sometimes worse than leaving.

B Yeah. Then you have somebody who's just really unproductive on your team.

C You're miserable. You're miserable.

A Yeah.

B And the worst part is then if you're not talking about that, then it just sits there and it stagnates, and I think it actually can be pretty easily fixed. Test, but it takes a willingness to adjust your perspective.

C Yeah. And it it takes, honestly, courage to Be that honest and to recognize that it's not a fit or That's something needs to change, and and that's so hard. It really is. And the people who who can figure out When it's time to to make those adjustments, I find success in ways that others aren't.

B How would you approach someone that, like, the technical skills are not the where their brain naturally goes? Like, how do you help people succeed who are coming along and trying to grow those technical skills early on.

C There's lots of different paths. And I don't think that there's a prereq necessarily of any set of skills. And usually, you can sort of navigate people to find a home that resonates with their skill set, their interests, their preferences, their whatever. And so hopefully, you're able to kinda recognize those Those preferences enable to to navigate them to a spot where they can thrive. In terms of just, you know, The fresh graduates who who want to learn a lot of new skills and don't have them yet, it's just about time and patience. You know, one of my mentor said it's AmericanMusk written a lot, And that's very true. And what I noticed is I felt like I was new for a long time, And then all of a sudden that was old. Like, I didn't ever have middle.

C I went from, like, the emerging professional to Leading the studio. And I I I never really felt like I was anywhere other than the, like, up and comer, and then now, like, leading the place, which is A little bit odd. I wonder if that's true for other people too if they feel that way. I felt like I need need so much more to learn. I need so much more to learn. No. I feel I still feel like I need so much more to learn. But the patience of, like, just getting another project and and and learning from your mistakes and learning from your successes and asking good questions.

C All of a sudden, you have a a a whole tool belt full of these skills and Confidence and and the experience that you can reach on and when you need it in the next project and the next situation.

B Yeah. Oh, man. I've definitely heard the time thing before. One of my very good mentors has told me numerous times One of my struggles is patience because, you know, it's hard because I I deep down, like, the thing that What gets me excited is leadership and leading and people and stuff, but that stuff doesn't come at the front of this experience. It comes later. And so my impatience really was because I couldn't get to any of that fast enough. And yet, I do recognize that, like, it's the it's the time you sink into repetition and really going through the struggle of the learning process that gets you through the curve of learning, but I really struggled to reconcile those 2 things in my own experience.

C I did I did too, honestly. And and I think we talked about this one other time when you were on my my previous Moments on your podcast on the floor of the conference. I wasn't feeling like I had the opportunity to build leadership skills in my professional life and AIA offered those opportunities to learned those skills, and I owe a lot to the organization. That's Part of why I always feel like I need to continue to give me back because they gave so much to me and I was able to, you know, serve as the committee Co chair with Jana. And then the chair, Audrey, and then, you know, I was on the board of area of county and onboarding the state and became, you know, all the way up. And those opportunities were sort of a parallel track that I was able to to get those leadership tools and training and and make those mistakes, find those successes as I was still Learning and coming up, and and I'll be forever grateful to the AI chapters that gave me a chance before I was able to see those kinds of opportunities at a professional level, and I I totally hear you. It's hard

B Yeah. I think for a lot of people I think that people who get really involved in the AIA have Tend to have this, like, thing where they wanna volunteer and lead, and it is such a great outlet for those people. And that is Developing leadership skills, I think, is definitely one of the best things that comes out of involvement in that kind of leadership capacity.

C I agree so much. And there's so many good examples of leaders to follow. And even before I read that Liz Wiseman book, I saw how Paul Welch would lead. And he used that Mentality of multiplying people and to see how he mentored Nikki Dennis Stevens, who's now the executive director of AI California, and how The 2 of them thought me and other young professionals at the time this potential that I didn't see in myself, That empowered me as a leader that I bring to my studios today. And again, just just a super cool kind of way that My volunteer life and my professional life kinda crossed over, and I'm forever thankful for their mentorship.

B And do you think that your AIA leadership growth has influenced how you lead in your project role and studio role?

C Yes. Of course. And and vice versa. Now I use 1 team, 1 dream, all of it. And The hope is that everything is getting better all all the time. And then we're always learning, always building up and supporting each other in those efforts at improving the culture. I could be talking about both things because I am, and And that's really cool to be a part of.

B So I kinda wanna close out this section on mentorship By leaving our listeners, especially anybody who would, like, be appear to you, someone who's, like, In a leadership role, a principal, a project architect, a project manager, somebody who's managing a team, what Recommendations can you leave them with for just immediately going back to their team and trying something out that will Have a positive impact or something that they could do over the next several months that would make a difference?

C I think the the first thing is just being open to ideas. And And what I mean is really actively pulling ideas out of your team because they have good ideas. And if you're able to access those ideas, it makes everything better And there's a power in that collaboration that has been really fun to be a part of on my team, and so they'll be really fun on your teams too.

B Yeah. I think it's like you can't just expect people to come forward. There's, like, this weird Dynamic that's invisible with leaders where teams might not always bring their ideas forward. But you if you as the leader are able to invite them into that. Like, we talked about trust, but, yeah, prompting them and asking them and challenging them to contribute, I think That grows over time, and and I think consistency and repeating that process over time really is what Develops that amazing culture that we're talking about.

C I agree so much, and it just It's all about trust. I mean, we've said that a lot. And when people give an idea, it's just a part of themselves. It's tied to them emotionally, and you have to respect it, what you're getting from them. And if you can, It's really, really powerful. And building that community, that culture of trust There's also a really great creative output.

A So, Ben, I can't remember the first time we met each other, but I have this feeling that it was at an AIA California board meeting. And I so loved seeing how you moves through the ranks to serve as this president. And I was wondering, you know, looking back at your time there, what was your most favorite aspect about being in that role? I I I don't feel like a lot of young individuals time to want to pursue that role? And then, also, what do you believe was your biggest two legacy for the year that you had as your present.

C I love, you know, part of AI California. I I miss it. I I love being in DC too. Don't get me wrong. But The people in AI California and and correct me if I'm wrong, though. I think, Evelyn, you and I go back to AI Orange County Day. So even before, like, the associate committee of AI or Probably. Hey, man.

C But this idea of 1 team, 1 dream, I, of course, applied it to my time in AOID County and AI California, and we just had an amazing team. And so we would see these, Let's call them opportunities for improvement in the governance and the structure and the focus of AI California, and we just pounce ourselves to find ways to make it better, and we did, which is really rewarding. And what I noticed as I was kinda coming through these ranks and, you know, I the The 1st time I was on the board was as a a young architect, regional director, which exposed me to the the national, young architects forum, Which is another amazing group to be a part of. And we looked at ways to better support emerging professionals and found a couple of things, and we We established this sort of ongoing relationship with NCARB that has resulted in some of these changes. Even The ditching of the 5 year rolling clock, we proposed that idea in a letter that I wrote in 2014, and 2 We've proposed some other things that happened very quickly, and NCAR pulled us no on the 5 year rolling clock back then. And so it's kind of cool to see That, you know, we saw these issues and pointed them out, and even the ones that we thought were were unsuccessful at, ultimately, it happened. Probably other people wrote letters too and but, Yeah. We saw these these opportunities to make the profession better, and we did.

C And then as president, I I saw that the The AIA California staff had stretched so thin because they were focusing on all these different things at the same time. And, Yeah. That we're getting great work done, but we could do more. So we we really worked hard to kinda narrow. Alright. We we're just gonna focus on a couple of things. Maybe even just 1 thing. And what we focus on, you know, as I mentioned a little earlier with climate action and and 2 Empowering emerging professionals.

C And on the climate action front, it's been really cool to see how that has focused the junior education and all the programming and all of the the social media presence and everything, and and and they're making real progress there and and continuing to do so. And I think the staff is more energized too to not just be Chasing everything and then and be focused. So that's maybe the thing I'm most proud of of of my year as president.

A So I think, you know, you've accomplished a lot just hearing back. I forgot about that whole rolling. It's it's funny how things have to get proposed. Well, it's not funny, but to to kind of remember how, you know, the talking about how long we talked about stopping the rolling clock, so for NCARB. But I guess, you know, now looking into the future, what would your future vision for the profession be going forward? Where do you imagine the most the biggest opportunity is for us.

C I think that AIA is so amazing at generating good ideas, And we're not as amazing at sharing those ideas with each other And with the other groups that may be working on the same thing. And it is sort of a Stupidly simple, but also amazingly complex problem because it's so simple, but we haven't quite Solve how to share information and empower each other so that we're not all doing the same thing at the same time and parallel not knowing it. And I think if we can solve that communication piece or at least just get better, I think we would empower All of us, national, state, local, in a way that we haven't quite been able to unlock. And I know a lot of really smart people I've tried to solve this, and we haven't figured it out yet, but it's definitely an opportunity for improvement, in my opinion. And it It seems like we should be able to find a way to improve that.

B So it's interesting, Ben, that you point to communication as the challenge of the AIA because that's actually kind of very related to what we're talking about in the context of our prior conversation on and mentorship inside the studio. But I wanna, you know, kind of just, like, reflect on What's interesting about you is you bring such a strong voice as a practicing architect, and maybe you can address some of the specific opportunities or questions on your mind related to how people who are sitting Right in the project work side of things are grappling with and what they what they want out of AIA and what they are looking for that would help us bridge this conversation on gaps in communication.

C It's a complex issue because the AIA, you know, is the voice of the profession. But But I think there's a lot of people in the profession that that don't quite hear their voice resonating in that voice. It's easy to celebrate projects that have high profile or kinda majestic programs that are named after presidents or 2 prominent locations, but the majority of people's experiences in more everyday places and schools and and houses and restaurants and then libraries and civic centers that are on the cover of national magazine. Then I think there's an opportunity there too because I want all architects to be designing amazing places for as many people as possible so that we're really using the power of design time to improve their lives. And and that probably means a little bit more celebration of these more humble typology tour more kind of everyday spaces and places and buildings. And there's a really great work that's happening there, and I think the People that are doing that noble work deserve to be recognized for those the right things that they're doing 2. And so I again, it's a it's a small thing, but I think it could go a long way. Yeah.

B I think that's true. I I mean, I think The architects that I think are really pushing forward on what is possible in our industry, and sometimes those come with really big name clients or big scale budgets or just more complexity, but I I think often about the architects that 2 are just trying to solve something that's really specific to their community at a small scale. And I do think that sometimes we miss celebrating those designs too. There there is something to be said about the person who set out in their career to just make a difference in their community, and I would love for us to celebrate their projects more.

C I agree so much. Yeah. There's an ability in that mission, and I think the profession could Benefit from celebrating some of those small but mighty accomplishments in these communities across the country.

B Well, thank you so much, Ben, for being here with us today. I feel like we could talk for a very long time, and we probably will have a follow-up conversation later. But Just want you to know that, you know, I think I thought that this conversation would be really special because of Just how long I've known you and, like, how much I have seen your career grow, my career grow, and just being able to talk to you about mentorship in a really honest and open way is really cool.

C Yeah. We could talk about this probably forever, and it's been fun to Try to put words to this concept because it's so important. And I appreciate the opportunity to share some of my thoughts about Mentorship and and the profession. And it's been really fun to see your career trajectory growth too. So we've known each other we go way back. We're each other's people.

B Yeah. We're each other's people.

C I like that.

A Yeah.

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