Purpose Driven Practice

C Welcome to practice disrupted. Welcome back to Practice Disrupted. Today, we're gonna be speaking with Seroff, founding principle of PlusLab Architects in New York City about the purpose driven practice. And for us, the purpose driven can mean different things to different people based on personal values and where an individual focuses their career. to illustrate that point Evelyn and I thought we'd both share 2 different perspectives on what it can mean. Evelyn, do you wanna start?

B Sure. Thanks, Janine, and welcome back, everyone. So my notion of the purpose driven practice comes out of a book titled The Purpose Economy by Erin Hurst He's a passport member at a nonprofit organization that I would use to work at called Public Architecture. He argues that there have been a series of shifts happening not dissimilar from the information economy, which was driven by innovation and economic growth. that there's this new driver out there that are really connecting people to their purpose. So it's an economy where the value lies in the establishing purpose for employees and clients by serving the needs of the greater good or entities greater than themselves. enabling personal growth, not only for the individual, but also building community. So my version taking the purpose economy and focusing it on what does it mean to have a purpose driven practice.

B I really believe that it attracts individuals not necessarily through award winning design or purely because of their design. There's definitely purpose driven practices out there that has award winning design. but they attract people more importantly through the firm's culture, the type of work they do, and the clients that they're serving. And it should be noted that I think a firm that may fulfill one individual's purpose may not fulfill another's individual's purpose. But these type of firms really think about design of the whole, starting with the culture that they build. the type of individuals that they bring into that culture and how the collective group supports the work that they are doing within their local or global community. which isn't too dissimilar from, I think, your version of what a purpose driven practice is, but it is a little bit of a twist. So Janine, why don't you talk about your version of the purpose driven practice?

C Right. And I like I like where you're heading with that because it's really about the individuals inside the organization and what their goals are. I guess the way I've always thought about it stems from the body of work that a firm might pursue. And early in my career, I worked with architecture for Humanity as a volunteer at their HQ in San Francisco. and was very inspired by any of the design projects that were happening around that time globally about what we now call social impact work. And that's projects that served communities of need, and it showed up in a lot of different ways. There was, like, faster recovery work, but there was also designers going into communities in need. I know for example, there was a food desert design opportunity that happened in Chicago where there was a really interesting outcome around that.

C And there have been a lot of other alternative projects that have popped up in international countries for communities in need. And more locally in San Francisco, there's even some major permanent structures that have come at the result of nonprofits and foundations investing in this type of work. So it shows up in a lot of different ways, and there's a lot of different types of architects and nonprofits who have championed this movement over the past several decades. Later in my career, after I had a chance to explore this a bit more, I ended up going to work for Lenny Madam Stacy Architects. And I've always been really inspired by the fact that they found a way to integrate this type of social impact work into their revenue model. So they're doing they're thinking about design as a social justice issue, and they're also looking at how to design for climate change towards a 0 carbon future. And for me, what is very exceptional about them is that they're putting their values at the forefront of how they're thinking about their business model and the types of projects that they pursue.

B I think The interesting thing about Ilya And PlusLab is that he kind of bridges both of those definitions. Ilya is somebody who is known for his disaster assistance relief work. Right? And for building resilient structures, especially in hurricane prone designing and building resilience structures in hurricane prone areas. and and delivering it to a client at an affordable price, kind of all all of those things. But I've had really interesting discussions with him, and he and he's a he's a friend of mine that we go back pretty far about how he has really been intentional about the way he set up plus lab at the culture and kind of the autonomy and ownership that he's given His employees that he's never really seen before. So for me, that was always kind of the more interesting -- part of Ilya that the public or the general audience that is used to hearing his name and seeing him talk, has has not really heard about, so I'm happy that this is an opportunity for him to share that side of the story.

C Me too. So what is the most important thing that you wanna get out of this conversation?

B So for me, I think it's a reassessment, or I I hope individuals think about what is their own purpose and what really drives them. and and how that aligns either with your firm's culture and if you're if you're like an individual contributor or if you're you're still working your way up the career ladder at the firm, you know, how you can maybe even create opportunities to drive purpose within your organization, or maybe it reaffirms that this where you are right now is not necessarily as fulfilling as you need it to be. But I but I hope that it would help everyone question not only what like, project delivery, right, which I think is important, but it'll it it questions how that all aligns and how that -- all comes together through the people, through the way you collaborate, through the way you team, through how transparent your communication systems are. to really make showing up every day for work an exciting thing rather than kind of dreading waking up and going to work in the morning. So I'm really excited to bring on my friend, Ilya Azaroff. Ilya Azaroff, aIA, is founding principle of Lab Architects, an associate professor at the New York City College of Technology. He is a recognized leader in disaster mitigation, resilient planning strategies and design with more than 25 years of experience. He consults with design teams across the US and globally.

B And currently, he is leading the AIA New York unifies task force for city and state. on issues surrounding COVID 19. Here's our interview with Ilya. So Ilya, thank you for joining us today. before we jump in, can you just give us a brief interaction of who you are and a little bit about your, plus lab? Just kind of where you're located and how big your firm is?

D Sure. thanks. Thanks, Evelyn. It's it's great to be with you guys today. my name is Eli Azaroff. I'm an architect. I'm the founding principle of PlusLab Architects, and I'm also an associate professor at, New York City College of Technology. My office is located in Brooklyn, New York, and, we have a global engagement of practice with only 5 employees.

D A lot of the work we do is the other 98% of folks out there. We we work with a lot of communities around the world that are threatened by natural disasters. And, we do a lot of work in terms of mitigation, but unfortunately, we end up doing a lot of response work to after disasters. And, that's kind of my brief.

B Great. So a lot of people know you for kind of your work around disaster response. but you and I, you know, we go way back on the the young architects, the AIA young architects forum. And I had a really interesting conversation about how you created your firm and kind of the structure and the hours and even down to I'm not gonna ask for your billable rate, but, like, you know, down to, like, even how how kind of employees get to to choose how much money they're taking home at the end of the day, which I think is actually really remarkable in a different way to set up a firm. So talk to us about as you were thinking about setting up plus lab, like, the intentions that went into creating the business model behind it.

D Sure. Yeah. Happy to. for me, I started to map out my career of studio engagement, whatever that means, in in terms of me, being part of a studio in a leadership role or starting my own studio. And I mapped out years ago, 3 studios, that that I wanted to run. This happens to be the 2nd studio in that trajectory. the first one was design collective, and it was all about collaboration. We, I had a business partner.

D We had, think up to almost 10 employees, 11 employees. and we sought out to just completely collaborate and jump on with everybody that weren't architects. And we did all this work with, visual artists and dance companies and just incredible scientific efforts. You name it because we thought that if architecture is a reflection of culture, we need to understand what the culture is out there to create good picture. And I all I wanted to learn from that experience, and then I the second studio, which is plus lab, was to be more about, fabrication and design builds projects. Now that morphed into where I'm at today. And so this office, it's really about sort of serving communities in a in a bit of a different way, but structurally, what I learned from the collaborative side was you don't have all the answers as the architect, and you shouldn't have all the answers, but you have to know how to tap into the answers. So I treat my employees the same way.

D They come into the office, and we give them as much as they can handle. one coming right out of school, they will be designing projects in my office. But what we want to do is encourage them to say go as far as you can. and then start asking us questions. And when you don't know the answer to something in front of you, engage others in the office so you have personal growth we can also see what your capabilities and capacities are. More often than not, my experience was, and a lot of my colleagues experience was, you're out of school here. Oh, go draft. That's not an experience that has anybody buying into the product of the architecture in the end.

D So to me, giving everybody that kind of buy into a project, everyone feels authorship. And so what that means in the end is is that, we'll have young kids out of school just work work work on projects and you will see they will feel as though, hey, this is my project and it is. and we all participate. So that's sort of that genesis of that work. And I can talk about the where I'm going to the 3rd studio studio later on. I don't know when that's gonna happen, but with the employees in the office, you mentioned something about how we look at at work life balance. I was spoiled coming out of school. I spoiled in that there was no work in the United States.

D but I found work in Europe and working in European firms the firms I worked with were all about life work life balance. It was 5 o'clock, and you could hear across the entire office. Pends drop altogether. 5 o'clock. Done. No one's working late. Everyone's going home. Fridays, everyone left early to get some shopping done for the weekend so you could actually cook home meals.

D And I thought that's the way the way the world worked. I worked in Germany 5 years in Italy and Holland. And I thought, wow, this is our Texas is a great gig. This is amazing. Wow. What a great. And then I came back to the US. And, boy, was I hit with something different? It was the US model.

D It was so completely different. was work until you can't work anymore. You can't see in front of you to get the job done on time with these unrealistic expectations. So I worked that way for a little while and just decided, you know, found a couple of colleagues, and that's where we started the work. So I run my office in that very much more of a European way that If you can't if you have something in your personal life, you have to get done, fine. Just tell me you don't have to be at work for it. We'll take care of all of the things. and we set our projects by goal oriented.

D So it's not okay. I've gotta fill my time card for 40 hours. No. No. No. No. Here's what you have to get done this week. to make sure we're on the right trajectory.

D If you get that done by Thursday, take Friday off. If you get it done by Wednesday, you wanna just come in and hang out on one of the other projects? Great. And so what that means is is that a lot of employees would wonder, well, does that mean I don't get paid? for all those extra hours? No. Because we set a budget for the project. We know what we put in for the project. If you have x number of dollars for the project, and people are working smarter and more efficiently, the profit margin is up, and so you can pay employees more or you profit share at the end of the year. And we try to profit share at the end of the year. Now some projects, trust me, we will lose money on projects sometimes, and we learn from those and we try to do better.

D But if you're an employee and you say, wait, I'm gonna come you mean, I'm working at your office. I'm working 32 hours a week, and I'm getting paid more than I would in another office and that profit share. Yeah. Does that mean my bottom line as the as as the owner of the office is less? Yeah. Probably. But I have trust in my employees. they can do all of the work to a point. And when they say they need help, I know they need help.

D I know they're not being lazy. I know that they are not saying, well, you know, I'm gonna push this off to somebody else because I don't like doing this type of work. It builds a lot of trust. So I that's the that's the structure as it stands, and there's a lot more to it. and it's not perfect. Trust me. But in trying it this way, I I have a lot of happy people and a lot of happy people that just love to do the work we're doing.

C That is so powerful to hear, honestly, coming from architecture studios where I was working on the hourly model, I can really appreciate the value that you're offering your employees as something to incentivize them towards wanting to feel ownership on the project and feel empowered that their time and the work that they're doing would be valued. And then there's time for even just a point of recovery if they need it, which is often not the case when you work in a traditional 40 to 60 hour week work model.

D The traditional 40 to 60. I like that. Mhmm. 40 to 60. Yeah. you know, a car's acceleration by this car, 40 to 60? No. No. No.

D I don't work that way. I want, I want family life. I like, I like other things.

C I have I have so many questions. I wanna ask just in response to that initial introduction, but I think the first one is at what point in your career, did you know that you wanted to be an entrepreneurial architect who ran your own business?

D I, you know, that's a that's a great question. I I think it really goes back to the real slap in the face when you came back to the US and noted the working model here was so distinctly different than the European model. And one, I was I I came back and went to graduate school. And while I was in graduate school, I was working part time for a couple of years and then just started working, and I realized I'm either gonna, 1, go back to Europe right away because this is not the way I wanna live my life, or 2, I'm going to have to start my own form firm or find a firm, a European firm that is working in the US that has that same ideology. So between those two things, looked around a little bit at other offices, and even the European firms working here had adopted the US model. I I couldn't find one. And there probably were. I just couldn't find one.

D And then the other thing is my my wife was not, for my wife to be at that time. She's was not interested in moving to Europe, so you don't want it decided to start the office just like that. And and, thought thought it was, an easy decision, but you have to be really tough. It's very tough to start an office. Extraordinarily tough. it made it easier today. I don't know. I'm glad I've gone through this, and and I don't wanna look back at because if I would try to if I would have known that what I had to go through that first portion of it, it I don't know.

D I might have just packed up and brought her with me overseas, and that would've been it.

C No. I know what you're talking about because I'm going through a similar process right now, trying to build my business. And it is there's a lot of soul searching that happens, and then also a lot of growth that you have to go through just to understand the learning process of stepping into that responsibility. But I wanna come back to talking about the model that you're talking about. And one other question is, so you made an intentional decision to model some after what you had seen, are there areas in your business where you're taking risk and you may not know that you're creating something new in terms of the model, because they see a lot of architects kind of hesitate when it comes to experimenting with new ideas. they I think you're lucky because you saw it work in practice. You saw this potential for a model that created a work life balance that was effective. What advice might you give to someone who's running a business that feels a little bit hesitant to lean into that type of risk?

D Oh, Yeah. So there's a couple questions there. I'll I'll unpack part of that as one is, so for the European model, the work life balance is 1, but the profit sharing that I described to you. That's whole holy mile. And I didn't experience a profit sharing model, experienced bonuses, and great work life balance, but in in Europe, your your pay was so much higher than it is in the US. I mean, just incredibly like 40 to 50% higher than what you were getting paid in the US and you had 5 weeks paid vacation in your contracts to start with. So I recognize work life balance is like, this is the life I wanna have, and I would assume everybody else wants to have it, and then found a way that I thought was equitable. And so that's that's the twist that I have on it.

D The second part was advice for people to lean into it. There's only 2 ways to do things in life. Love and fear. If you love architecture, what is your fear about leaning into something different? Because ultimately, you're gonna keep doing architecture. And if you have a fear of of leaning into to something that that might make it better, then you can't you can't complain about your pot in life and staying in that same lane. You've gotta take those 2 things on. and just decide where where you want to go in. There's no I I don't think that there's any, negatives to leaning in to to new methodologies and new things if you have your eyes eyes wide open.

D And I've I've leaned into some things that have not been wildly successful at all. Some things are like, wow. Well, that's too bad. but I don't regret them, not at all. a lot of the work we do, we lean into a lot of work that you don't know if you're going to get pay at the end of end of the process. based on the communities and things we're working with around the world. And so where do you drive your satisfaction? I guess it comes to value. You know, or or profit.

D I think every every architect out there defines profit for themselves in a different way. The tuition waived is from defining profit as dollars and census, margins, all of those things. That's great. And I think that's great for the actuarial sciences, all those things, bank and finance. I define profit in a completely different way. If I'm sleeping well at night and I have good work life balance, my profit is very high. And if I look at the bottom line of the office in a traditional sense, Sometimes the opposite. Yeah.

D Great. And sometimes the office, oh my gosh, this was a struggle year. But did I feel physically struggled at the end of the year? No. There has not been a year for many years that I felt that the office is a burden. If the office is ever a burden, then I probably would transform the office so it wasn't anymore. So right now, I'm enjoying plus lab, and it kinda leads to the fact that That third studio is supposed to be at a point where we have made ourselves into a p to put ourselves in a position where we can begin to finance our own projects and develop our own projects, but these are the projects that still are in the role of the

A 98%.

D And that to me is, is the next layer of success. So when this becomes that place where it's exhausted in its opportunity or starts to feel burdensome, I will change it and and no fear of that. Not at all. So you have great questions.

B Sorry. I have a follow-up. So first of all, I just wanted to point out to our listeners that you've mentioned the 3rd studio a few times. And I I I don't necessarily wanna go deep into the 3rd studio, but it's interesting to me that you're already thinking about a next iteration to your business in a very different way. and that you've already made one iteration previously because I think, you know, for those individuals that have been at our firm for an extended period of time, or even if I look back at the firms that I have been at, they're not going through any of these pivots that you have taken your studio through. So that's that's really interesting to me, but I wanted to go back to kind of what you were saying in the introduction and about the There's responsibility that you give even to people that are coming right out of school. What has been the response from your clients? What has been the biggest struggle as a firm owner to that approach and what has been the response of your employees, especially ones that have maybe had 1 or 2 years of experience and then kind of landed at your place. and and what they feel about the the extra responsibility they've been given.

D Yeah. So I I I think, I'll do the the third question first. people who come and work here that worked in other studios, they are so overjoyed to have the ability to do other things And more often than not, I begin to hear my boss would not let me do this, would not let me do this, did not engage me. And that's And we have a conversation about, let's just look at where you're going forward. Don't look back about that because I, I don't wanna hear that about the the profession. I just wanna hear the positives about you're enjoying doing these things to you and them, the trust that that that is, that you're not holding the work. That this is my work. No.

D It's not my work. that's why I called it plus lab. It's not about me. It's doesn't have my name on the door. It's about the pluses you add to every process. We add to every client's process. It's their ideology, their needs, their desires, the mission critical functions, whatever it may be, we add to that process. And so I like to think that's the same in the office that we add to each other in the us to make sure the projects go well.

D So those those who come in that have experience in other places, they really enjoy that aspect. Now the other thing is we quickly also find out who is actually a self starter and who has the capacity to grow in that. and who does not. And and it's unfortunately, you will find, you know, hires that will sometimes They need to be told constantly what to do because they've only been told what to do since they are in undergraduate school. And to break people out of that straight jacket, is a really difficult job and sometimes we've taken that on and sometimes we we can't take it on because there's a small office how do you unlearn, that aspect? And that's hard. and I and I feel for for a lot of those those those younger architects the tremendous period of growth and creativity. If you you see even look at the psychology and how you're how the mind is still the the the growth of your mind, the most creative period of your life is still going until you're early to mid twenties. It's it's been shown classically.

D So if you're conditioned to only follow what you've been given versus creative thinking process, we see it within a month of working year. very rapidly. So we want we we want people that are self starters, but and if people come in, they may not have the the the the greatest skills or the Grace portfolio, but if we recognize something in them that is in those lines, boy, I'd tell you they blur and they turn into these amazing amazing sort of project managers can do call anything. They have no fear about calling contractors doing this all of those things. And that's really satisfying. And the other satisfying thing is when those folks decide to leave here, they don't have a fear of telling me. I help them find their next position at the next firm, and I have no doubt anyone who has stayed here for a certain period of time can open their own office and run their own projects top to bottom. So I feel like we're doing a good job training that next generation of architects by saying, you can do it all because you did it all in this office.

D And so that's the the benefit. So the clients see the the intermediate end results of of this stuff. I bring those the the younger members of the office to those meetings. And it's not as if that that we haven't all touched those drawings. So you can think in the traditional sense, I, as a licensed professional, it is my ethical responsibility to make sure that those things are are gone over and done right. I want them to go as far as they can go and say, no. Alright. So you've done this, and you have to really look at this and your code and all of these things.

D And Why was your decision process here based on our conversation with the client? So they come or listen in or on the client meeting so they get the primary information They translate it as I I translate it as what I've heard, and we've heard different things. and they're translating it differently. And those are the interesting conversations. Sometimes that turns out to be really good. Sometimes it does turn out to be frustrating in in that, oh, well, here's the 2 or 3 responses that that that person has taken on, and it's completely different from what I heard on that next phasing and steps and what we should be doing in the project. but it's not a point of of inflammation, anger, or conflict. It's a moment of, oh, everybody takes things in completely differently. and maybe I'm taking it in wrong.

D Maybe I'm missing something. And then to really talk around that, more often than not, we can then go back to the client with few questions to verify. And every once in a while, I've taken it in wrong, like, wow, even with my experience over all these years, I heard it completely different than was intended by the client, and that's a really valuable thing to do is to have trust of other ears and eyes. So, you know, everybody has struggles with clients, and it's no different whether you have a seizing professional or younger people in the off office, And yeah, we just like every office, professionally, try to you you have to minimize errors and emissions. And, Nothing's gone out of the office that hasn't been looked at, but everybody has their their troubles in to say that we haven't had some hiccups and bumps along the way would would be completely false. But we take all of that on as as our responsibility as we have to, and we learn from it. Employees learn from it, then we move on.

B Yeah. That's, like, I mean, that's, like, I feel like that's a great segue back to the -- the training of your employees, and more importantly, helping them take those next steps just because I think All of us have been a I've been in very difficult situations, especially if I've been for with Affirm for more than 4 years where I had that dreaded conversation. even if I've been with somebody for 1 year, if if

D they're -- What's what's the dreaded conversation?

B Of, like, you know, I'm leaving the firm, even though it's a personal, like, Yeah. But but so there's that, but there's also your your perspective on training up, the next generation and encouraging them and helping them go forward rather than being like, oh, I just spent so much money on you. Why are you leaving me now? So so talk talk to us a little bit about that perspective and why you think, in our in the most refreshing way possible, it different from the majority of a lot of firms.

C It's extremely interesting to hear you say this because I've heard a lot of folks struggle with people leaving and, certainly that investment that happens. So

A --

D Oh, I used to. I I used to, and I used to fight against it. And at one point, I just looked at it differently. I said, wait a minute. Do I really think that someone's gonna stay in my firm for the rest of their lives? So what is the different way to do to to really do this? Well, the different way to do it is is to say is to make sure that there's an understanding that if you're going to transition to someplace else, just let me know because as a small office, I need to make sure that when you go that you have that I have a good replacement and that the the knowledge that you have about the current workflow is transmitted and transferred files to you name it as best we can. And, I remember, one employee that was leaving and and couple of the other employees were just telling her, no, we just go talk to him. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.

D And she didn't believe in it. She came and talked to me and said, Oh, great. Where are you gonna go to work? And she says, Well, I have to start to look around. So, look, why don't you do this? Tell me where you wanna go work. I'll try to help you find a place. And she's just like, what? So, so I think I think there's, there's a lot a lot to that that I I experienced that too is, oh my gosh, I, you know, am I gonna do now? I you know, you've been here for 3 years, and you know the system, all those things. But when I flipped that around, it's been great. And I gotta tell you, I've got some former employees that work at some of the some really big well known firms in New York City.

D And I gotta tell you, there's been a couple of times where we've been on we we gotten in the weeds of of whatever it is, because maybe an employee's gotten sick. We had some deadlines that and we try not to do this in any project that we have deadlines that do not match the work life balance. And some of them will drop what they're doing in their work and come and help out. And that's that's loyalty. You know? It's not often, but it's happened a couple of times that that, some pretty serious senior people in offices just kind of show up and give a hand. No.

C That's amazing.

D That's good.

C Yeah. There's like a community around the studio environment even after they leave.

D Yeah. And some people that worked here have now now worked for the city of New York. in some of the design and construction places. We've got a 4 employee that now works for FEMA. We've got, you know, there's and a lot of them check-in from time to time, and that's that's satisfying to see where they're going.

C I think maybe the next place we should go with this conversation not to change topics, but I don't wanna miss it. It's so important to talk about the fact that you are a a practice that's really built on values as you alluded to in how you think about the design of the business model. Can you talk more about that? How that fuels the way that you're working and the projects that you go after and What's your inspiration around doing that?

B Yeah. And I would I would, like, not that I'm being bold by saying this, but I would go as far as to say that you're really a purpose driven practice. And there's a lot of other practices out there that might have purpose driven portfolios, but they don't embody it to the extent that PlusLab does.

D I guess for practice and purpose driven practice, I think there's a a moment when when you're younger architects, there is the fashion of architecture. You look at magazines, look at award winning things, and you're like, that is what I need to be doing to make a name for myself and be successful in the industry. that's false. That is completely false. That is the product of the 20th century architecture firm thinking. Right? As I said, you look at how you define your own profit, your own value, and what is success to you. It completely changes that category We've done a whole series of projects that in the traditional sense, if we rewind 20 years ago, would never get a design award. because, oh, well, that just doesn't look the part.

D Yeah. You're right. It doesn't. But, boy, it hit everything that we needed to hit for our client, that situation, that culture, that people, that place, that thing. And to us, that value is so high it just so happens in the last 20 years, I think people have moved on to performative architecture architecture for the other 98%. Social impact design is just not a slogan. It is embodied in who we are and what we do. And that is that's great to see that that the fashion of architecture is now saying, hey, that's fashionable too.

D Great. And once it passes this part of architecture, we'll still be doing this work. And that's the that's the whole notion of it. So a purpose driven practice is something that and and I said this before, I sleep well at night because what I'm doing what everybody in the office is doing is we, we feel that we have a real impact on somebody else's life. And if you look at health safety and welfare, what does that mean to somebody else? The welfare, health safety. And when you're working in some of the communities we work in, health safety and welfare are daily struggles. Mhmm. And if we can give them an uplift for a better life, through architecture, through opportunity, that is the best thing you can possibly do.

D And so then you you're asked in the traditional sense what the profit margin is and it's not something that a lot of firms will take on. But if you ask us in our sense of profit margin, we're at the top of the heap. We're doing things and achieving things and and all of those things. And the other thing I'm gonna say is that, when you're doing this kind of work, the other part of that profit is the social capital that you and and equity you receive in who you are when you go into these communities. we had a, an indigenous community in Hawaii send a handwritten letter to the office because they saw the work we're doing for an indigenous community in in the Caribbean. And they sent it and just said, we've seen what you're doing. We know you can help us and and just it was the most beautifully written letter and it just so happened. I was I was going to Hawaii to, run a resilience workshop.

D And so the serendipity of that letter coming because they saw this other work, they already trusted us as an office and that social capital built up is invaluable. So just the long story short is going there for a resilience workshop and letting them know, oh, by the way, I'm gonna be on island in the next couple of weeks. They were thrilled over the top. They had massive ceremonies just for us and, you know, for me to come talk to them about their work. we toured these ancient sites and new site that they wanna build a resilience hub that reflects the culture of these 7000 Hawaiians that need a need a place to grow the community to answer the food desert that exists there, to answer all the things of climate change, and we are now very deep into that project. Now that is social capital. Is that gonna make a lot of money as a project? I don't care. frankly, because it's making exactly what I wanna do with my life and as an architect, because I know I'm helping people.

D So that is that that to me is that that sort of value statement that keeps coming out of out of how you define profit.

C And when you started your firm, did you know that you were heading in that direction, or how did that emerge from the work in terms of becoming the trajectory that you were moving down?

D Yeah. It's a great question. since I was a kid, I was always interested in, one of those crazy things is when you're an architecture school, if you imagine being a double major, well, you're looking at double major for undergraduate school. That is a crazy thing you possibly do. But I was in geography environmental studies because they're so fascinated with environmental concerns. So this is sort of the onset of the environmental movement in the United States with architecture. And I was in school, but there's an there's no environmental design classes. There's no sustainability classes well before that.

D And so taking these things because I'm growing up in the Midwest, seeing Disaster after disaster, flooding tornadoes, you name it. And I and my parents, my father at war refugee, He experienced man made disasters hunger as a as a child and forced labor camps and growing up in a household like that, and anytime some sort of disaster happen. We as a family were saying, he would say, we have to go help people. So that's embedded in who I am, so you have to help people. So when I started this office, I didn't particularly think about that. Call it, working on disaster relief and understanding the impact of future global climate change was almost like an intense hobby that I was constantly doing, constantly And so then be careful what you wish for. It's almost like, you know, I really love doing this. I love cooking.

D Most suddenly, now you're cooking professionally. Do you really love it? Well, it turns out that that now that climate change, sustainability, resilience are all now the main main focus of the profession and thank god it is, it's become the practice. It wasn't intended to be that way. We're gonna help people, but that lens that that has come up ever so rapidly, especially if you look at climate change, the number of disasters has increased since this studio has been founded. you know, now we're having 4 and 5 hurricanes within a a 2 month period running through the Caribbean alone, not to mention all the other shocks and stress So, yeah, it's, it and and yeah. So, any offices now that's part of the transformation. they're what's after resilience? and that's what's coming next. And what's after resiliency? You have to repair in the earth.

D So we are we we in in something that maybe you're interested in Evelyn I'm one of the founders of the Colinado Institute for re global resilience and regeneration. We are working with an indigenous community that is looking at regenerative models for their community and to export across the Caribbean because regeneration is the only way we're gonna save this planet and society. Sustainability is not enough. Resilience is not enough. What's next? So that's why there's a third studio coming. And and, it's almost here. I gotta tell you because the world needs it, and I'm not the only one doing this kind of work. So That's that's cool then.

B So you're a small firm, five people, but you have a very global practice. So You know, what what does that usually mean for you? Are you jumping on airplanes a lot? And then how has that changed kind of all in light of recent events?

D Yeah. Let's let's talk about that. Alright. Let me get my mask on. Alright. Yes. What that means is we have projects in more time zones than we have employees, across the globe. And what that traditionally meant was a lot of partnerships where I learned from my first studio is collaborative partnerships in those places.

D And because I know how to do that from the first studio, easy to do, but it also means that I was traveling and up until the the COVID 19 virus traveling constantly. and would try to bundle trips together. And I didn't know how taxing it was until the virus came along. So it it means a lot of travel. But what the current situation, if there is a silver lining, and I and and I I think about this a lot. I I meant to actually give you a call, Evelyn, because This is a transformation at hand that we often talk about when you and I have talked about practice is that there's so many new technologies out there that every office uses, but no one leverages it into true power use and transformation and I feel like that we are now being forced to transform and use technologies that we have had at our fingertips for the first time and leveraging them into a powerful tool. And so now I'm still engaged with every one of those projects. I had a meeting with the folks in Hawaii, last night, some other folks in the Caribbean earlier this week, and I'm still having those meetings.

D They're still as effective, if not more effective, and now we're using other software that we can share it together online. that is working. And we knew this stuff existed. And so does everybody else? No one was good. There there are some offices doing it. Don't get me wrong, but I wasn't doing it, and a lot of folks aren't doing it. So here's another transformation that's happening. So there's a silver lining.

D Once this starts to let up, will I go back to as much travels? I did. Probably not. And what this means is is we've been more efficient. I have employees down in the Caribbean. that have stayed there through the virus. We're just working, working, working. So, yeah, it it has, in the past, meant a lot of travel, and I'm looking forward to continued engagement globally, but I don't have to travel like I used to because someone took the straight jacket off of me. for this.

D You know, I was accepting the 20th century model. oh, I've gotta go see them. I've gotta go talk to them. All of those things. This is a touch point. we're at a place that the touch point is this is the touch point, and it it's it it's liberating. in a lot of ways. And we can walk the rock of sustainability.

D I don't have to worry about my carbon footprint when I get on that plane and try to get carbon credits to offset at the office. Right?

C Right. That makes a lot of sense. And I know you've mentioned that you're doing, advisory work on COVID 19. Can you us a little bit more about that and how that relates to architecture?

D Yeah. So I can talk about it in in two two two areas. One is, I'm gonna talk about it in the private practice sense. So, for many, many years, I've been working with a global concern of architects, scientists, engineers, educators, and leaders from around the world that have responded to disasters everywhere. Central America, South America, Nepal, China, you name it, and we respond. And, when this when the virus started to occur, that entire network got very active. And we've been doing response work, in Trinidad and Tobago. throughout the Caribbean, Central America, Costa Rica.

D We've been doing a lot of advisory work with the various governments, some in Dominica, and all over the place. And in those advisories, it is some things where the mind of an architect is very valuable. if we go back to this idea of a studio about collaboration, you find that you are one part, one very small part of an entire force or group that is responding and each person has their their value they bring to solution sets in the immediate response and some of the long term thinking. That sounds very familiar, right? That sounds like you just did schematic design with all the different architects and and consultants, all those things that you need to forward. it's the same in this. So we, for a good example is in Trinidad Tobago is talking with, the archbishop there. and how do you catalog the amount of, sacred space to help with, relief efforts in case a storm hits because you can't social distance in traditional shelters. How do you do food distribution? These are all spatial constructs that involve people.

D And if architecture is anything, it's about how do you provide things for people? So you have a lot to do with that. And then the other people with you are the doctors and the scientists and all the folks do really no logistics. And together, you can come up with spatial architectural responses and advisement that really help people out so they can understand for themselves. So the archbishop, he's he's not thinking about any things. He just knows that he has constituents across multiple islands, and he knows that he has X number of of churches and sacred spaces, all of those things. and we can understand that and he can we can tell him what's coming and how to help those communities. Now the other side of it is in New York and part of my hat is the AIA, and and Evelyn knows this very well that I've been very involved in AIA leadership for, most of my career back here in in the states. and so is she and many of many of my colleagues and friends.

D I'm the AI in New York State disaster coordinator designated by National. So as soon as this virus was hitting New York state and starting to hit it very hard, the department of state reached out and based on my position, in leadership, I am the key contact to the organization. And so we began an entire task force across the state of New York. It's called AI unified force that is the state component and all 13 components with the largest component AI New York chapter helping in a great deal of leadership. And with members all across the state, we have formed task groups that have worked on immediate needs, coordinating PPE, printing, advisory work, putting together lists of volunteers, healthcare architect lists to to supply to the department of health. you name it. And now we've transitioned to long term, whereas we're talking with the Department of City Planning, EDC is, you know, the EDC in New York City mayor's Office of Brazilians looking at how do we work with, extreme heat and relief centers with our own population just like I was doing professionally down in Trinidad And Tobago. They're asking the same questions, and they're asking about economic circumstances.

D What do we do? long term with street closures, all of those things. And so we're bringing the power of the AIA or advocacy efforts and advisory efforts on what the built environment can be to the table. And so I've convened that with a lot of other great lead So you don't do these things alone, and it's 100100 of AI members that are getting involved. And we're just at the beginning of this, and but my guess is is that we're we're to be in long term engagement because this is not gonna go away anytime soon. And so those are the the sort of two pieces of it. I'm on calls constantly with AIA city, state, backwards, forwards, and we are trying to align and get the power of the AIA to to be part of these solution sets because that's who we are. We're architects. You know?

C Yeah. Absolutely. It's amazing because I I'm hearing so many really great things in this. And one is just the power of taking your education and your training and finding problems to solve. 2nd being doing work that is meaningful to you and not being afraid to step into that work because there is work to do. and just ultimately creating value through that work for the people that you're trying to serve in whatever capacity it is. I I I just find it really inspiring because I think I think a lot of people want to be using their training and their education For good. And you are a role model of someone who is chasing that and pursuing it intentionally.

C And that is the lesson I think to learn is that you can create a career and a path forward for yourself that is meaningful to you.

D Yeah. You can. And and, I gotta tell you there's more work and I've I've a lot of the lectures or presentations that anybody, out there has seen, and I'll keep saying this. There's more work that needs to be done in the world today for the people who are affected by hazards and disasters, then there are architects out there to solve those problems. There's more work It's just people looking at the wrong work. There's all of this work over here that is for the hundreds of millions of people displaced by disasters. And then over here is people who want to develop X Y And Z. Great.

D You can develop X Y And Z, but no one's looking at that giant pie work. And I take that, you know, it's not literal anymore. Now you have a lot of designers starting to really look at that because you have to do that work. You have no choice. In my opinion, you have no choice. If you're going to design in the 20 century, you have to design that work. And that is the transformative work. If you're looking at the sustainable development goals from the UN, if you're looking at at the the pillars of the AIA.

D If you're looking at any of these things and couple that with climate change, your career is already set up for you. So get used to it and say, Let's let's accept what this is and you can really drive into this and you will have worked for the rest of your life. Mhmm.

C Man, I I kinda just wanted to end on any advice that you have for someone who really isn't passionate about stepping into that type of career or even if they're interested in launching their own business or they're in the process of doing it. What advice would you share?

D Yeah. you know, a regret is a very powerful thing. Don't regret things. if if in 10 years from now and you said gosh, I wish I would have. What happened? You you you gotta try these things out and there is no no replacement for for growth. So if you try things and fail, you're gonna grow enormously, and you're gonna learn something from it. And, and so the advice that I have for you is, if you wanna take a leap, you gotta take a leap at some point. Look before you leave, but Yeli.

B So that was a really great conversation with Ilya. And I've I'd love to get your perspective, Janine, on what you thought of it because that was the first time that he shared really on a on a broader scale to our listeners the reasons why he set up his practice the way he did.

C Yeah. I think it was a very good idea for us to bring him on for season 1. He is very well known for his work in resiliency and social impact design. And I heard an interview he had done on the young architect podcast with Mike Rosica. And so I had heard about that part of his studio, but, if you couldn't tell, I was getting more excited, the more he talked about the actual operational side of his business, because it seems like he's willing to test ideas in his studio, and he's entrepreneurial in how he's thinking about these things upfront and how he wants his practice to work. So I just really enjoyed just listening to that design thinking.

B I also appreciate, especially in this day and age when a leader is also willing to admit he's wrong. And he kind of did that relative to the whole idea of training people that to only have them leave your firm. I I feel like for me, that was really interesting for him to kind of talk through that. His own mindset shift about what it means for those legacy people to leave. And then whenever he needs to actually be able to call them back, if they just have a whole lot of work that they need to get out the door, I thought was pretty impressive.

C It was. I appreciated the transparency that he was willing to talk about that. Oftentimes, I feel like that's a conversation that's harder to discuss because you don't ever wanna acknowledge the fact that people leave, but it's true that they do. And I also appreciate that he's thinking about how his own interpretation of how his practice should work has shifted over time. And that's a definite lesson and takeaway from this episode.

B Right. And he even has this whole idea of the 3rd pivot when he's ready, right, to to shift it again. So the fact that he's even thinking about the next shift was pretty impressive to me.

C To come back to your question, Evelyn, I think For me, this episode really revolved around the idea of designing your practice with intention. And Ilya is such a great example of that. He has been thinking about the way his business model works. And I think that he showed us that he is designing that with as much care as he's thinking about his projects. And the lesson here is just to be intentional about the things that happening inside the firm and not only focusing on the things that you're trying to solve externally, such as projects or issues with your clients, you're firm itself is a design problem, and you can solve different problems within the operational structure.

B Right. No. Absolutely. And I think That plays out in many different ways. Right? so especially in today's day and age, when people are talking about being more agile or being more adaptable to change and being able to to pivot. he he talked about, you know, mistakes happen, and that's okay. and he he realizes that they are also going to happen given the fact that he's giving his employees so much responsibility upfront, but as a firm owner, his responsibility then is to make that a learning and a teachable moment for those individuals to help them move forward. But I think a lot could be said about the trust and freedom that accelerates personal growth in his farm setting.

B especially for his younger staff.

C That's true. And I I think it's worth stating that trust is a transaction that you're creating with your employees. And it's a very valuable thing to invest in building trust between the employer and the employee because it has -- a very clear return on investment for the firm.

B Yeah. And proof positive back to this whole, purpose driven practice that it can also be a profitable model. So here is this firm owner of all of a small firm

A --

B by all means with five people with a global practice working with indigenous cultures, making kind of the best of of unfortunate circumstances for communities and and scaffolding them back up and and doing it while living and having a very fulfilling life. So it's kind of a really interesting picture of you can have it all. I just I think it's a really good model now that people have heard a little bit more about how Ilya runs his practice that others can kind of latch on to as they think about how they want to evolve their practice or how their practice needs to continue to change or what type of practice they want to build for themselves.

C And to echo that idea, I just I think it's about really understanding your values and leading with an uncompromising approach towards following those values through. And that that's true with an the relationships that you build with your clients, the the projects that you decide to take on, and how you show up in your your work, basically, your practice and the jobs that you're doing. So if those values are showing up, then they should be consistent across all of the work that you're doing, both internally to the firm and externally with your clients. And one thing that really stood out to me in this interview was when Elias said that he wanted to step outside event because I see so many people trying to replicate that traditional design studio. And I think the challenge here is to dare yourself to break free of that and break outside of the box to really integrate your values into what you're doing and how you shape your studio model. We heard Ilya talk about so many values that were important to him that informed the way that he's designed his studio, including work culture, the employee experience, social impact design, helping people through architecture, and designing for a regenerative future. So I think what our listeners can think about as they walk away from this episode is taking time to reflect on what values are important to you. You could sit down and journal.

C If you do haven't already had these conversations with yourself yet, that's one good way to brainstorm, but to really center yourself around what is driving the way that you wanna design or the way that you wanna work. And how can you be more intentional about designing your existing work around those values. Absolutely.

B And I think that's a great point to end our episode on. Thanks so much, Janine, for your thoughts. Thank you to our listeners for tuning in, and we will see you next week. Thanks for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by Practice of Architecture. Visit us at Practice Disrupted dot to find out more about future episodes and the changing nature of practice. This show is part of the Gable Media podcast network, You can learn more about other podcasts in our community by visiting gablmedia.com. If you enjoyed the show and want to hear more content like You can help us by leaving a rating, review, and subscribing on your favorite podcast app. Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to let us know what other topics or speakers you are in sit in hearing about.

B Thanks for listening, and see you next week.