Getting Your Work Published

A Hi listeners. Hello, Janine.

B Hey, Evelyn. Hey, listeners.

A I wanna take a moment, and I hope that I really don't give our listeners any pause. But before jumping in today's episode, I wanted to acknowledge the event that happened in Atlanta last week in the increasing anti Asian incidents that have been occurring across North America throughout the pandemic. As a daughter of 2 Chinese immigrants living in the Bay Area, I've never felt so uncomfortable with my own skin. It has made me recount all the times when I am first introduced to someone and they ask me, Where are you from? And when I say I'm from the US, They respond with, but where are you from? Like, my first answer wasn't good enough for them. Of course, when people ask me that question, I know what they want me to say. But I also want to be able to say I'm an American without any question. My heart goes out to all the individuals of families that have been directly impacted, especially those who have lost loved ones.

B Thank you for sharing that, Evelyn. I know I know that was hard to share, and I think that all of our listeners will be very appreciative to hear your thoughts on that. I know from my own experience in going through last week's events that there are allies out there that really do want to help and they are trying to figure out The best way that they can show up right now, so I was curious if you could share maybe from your perspective what you think that next step is.

A Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's any different necessarily than all of the other incidences that have been happening throughout the pandemic, but really, you know, reach out to Asian Americans in your network and just ask them how they are doing. I won't suspect that your text is just coming through because of the recent incidents, and it's it's actually helpful to hear from others. Educate yourself and and be a voice, when it's safe for you to do so. And if you are able to pledge financial support to organizations that are helping with this fight. I think we can include a link in the show notes to organizations that are looking for donations in support of this effort right now. I also want to make it clear that the Black and the Asian communities our standing together in solidarity, and that we all have a stake when it comes to building a more inclusive America, a more inclusive profession and more inclusive firms. Knowing what I know of today's guests, considering she was one of the first to publish an article on the response from the architecture and design community to growing anti Asian racism and violence.

A I believe she would be okay that we spend a moment on this. And I hope that our listeners have not minded the brief interlude either.

B Yeah. I I really don't think that they will mind. And If anything, these conversations are the type that we hope to have on the show. It's interesting, Evelyn, that before these events happened, You and I had already been talking about planning conversations around the specific topic. And since starting our show in 2020, We have always looked at creating a space for conversations on justice, equity, inclusion and diversity. We're hopeful to continue to explore these conversations in an effort to create space and build awareness.

A To give further voice to another Asian American in the AEC industry. Our speaker today was Previously on the show, she joined us to kick off season 2 of Practice Disrupted on episode 21. And as promised, We've invited her back to shift the conversation

B to specifically her industry expertise. Wanda's career is centered around the world of publishing in the AEC space. Over the course of her career, she became the editor of Architect Magazine, The premier site for architecture industry news and building resources for architects and the architecture industry. It is also the official journal of the AIA. If for some reason you're not familiar with this publication, They frequently write and cover about award winning architecture from across the United States. They feature emerging trends in the industry And a variety of voices on professional topics of working in this field.

A As a contributor to Architect Magazine, I've been working with Wanda for several years now, but I personally have always seen writing as a great way for individuals and firms to position their own expertise and really build a brand behind that knowledge base. I'm interested in hearing her thoughts on the best routes for really building and positioning yourself and your firm as knowledge experts and other areas in addition to publications where individuals can focus their time and energy on.

B Wanna Lau is an editor, writer, and podcaster at Architect Magazine. She covers technology practice and op eds. Based in Washington DC, She's an award winning editor and writer who covers everything from building codes to firm culture. She is also a host and producer of the Architect Podcast Network. Prior to joining Architek, she worked for a decade in the AEC industry as an owner's representative, Engineer and communications director, but not all at once.

A Now let's cut to the interview.

C So I am the Editor of Architect Magazine. I'm currently the acting editor, but I am most recently the editor of Tech and Practice. That's my specialty. So I cover business, op eds, a professional practice technology software architect, I've been there since Halloween 2011, so this is Coming on to my 10th year there, which is Wow. Crazy to me. Yeah. It's the longest I've ever been in a job by far by twice as much. But I've been writing all my life, But I never imagined I could have a career in the creative field.

C I've always been a math and science person when I was younger, so I actually was an engineer for a while. Because I just always wanted a career where I could help people solve their problems, which I think is very common in architecture. I think that's a lot of people go into design because they wanna help the greater society and community. But one of my high school dreams was becoming an editor that covers technical subjects and trying to making them more interesting and compelling to understand. But, of course, I had to over prepare for it by formally studying engineering first and then formally practicing engineering. And then I formally studied journalism, and then I Practice journalism, which in reality, I think you could probably just be a really good writer and enter this field. But I think that having that background has really given me firsthand knowledge not many people can say they have because not many many people have a journalism engineering background. So

A Definitely.

C Yeah. And it's been so much Fun. So as I mentioned, I covered I covered the things that most people don't think about when they want to enter architecture. I think I cover building codes and software and high performance design, material science, Construction methods, building science.

A But I think it's important to point out, though, that publication Sure. It's not purely about the design publication. Right? There's so many different things and ways that you can express the work that you do on a more regular basis than just This is an award winning project because it won this design award.

C I agree. I think there are certain people who are drawn to just The aesthetics of architecture, but there have always been some really great publications that cover the technical side. So I'm thinking of, for example, Detail Magazine, which is, think based in Germany, but it just face features beautiful details of how things come together. And I think that for a practicing architect, That information is useful as well. It's nice to have magazines to inspire you in terms of design. It's also great to see the story behind how it was delivered and executed. And that's also nice to learn about, I think, the people behind architecture, which is what Architect Magazine was founded on, focusing on the architect. Although we have a strong design component, we also wanted to focus on the individuals who comprise the profession.

B A lot of the Technical themes that you're talking about that you're focusing on are specialties within our profession. So they make me think of Different people that I've worked with in different offices. There's always, like, the group that's really focused on code or the people that are really into high performance design. And so it's nice to see that you guys are offering kinda an in-depth and expansive curated content around those different topics because there's certainly different cohorts in all of the different offices that focus on these issues.

C It's true. And I think when you talk to an architect, they'll always tell you it's a team that puts the Building together. And it's usually not all the team members who are doing these actual aspects of production of specifications. Those People you rarely hear hear of in the design world, so it's nice to celebrate that this part is also important as well. And then, of course, as you might know, I think in 2014, that's when I first met Rosa Shang who, of course, is of the cofounders, I believe, and, like, probably a chair or maybe past chair of AI, San Francisco Equity by Design. And I met her actually through Melissa Daniel, who Also has her own podcast, Architecture is Political. But, anyways and that opened the doors for me to start covering equity and diversity and inclusion in architecture and Being a woman and also for some color who was in engineering, I knew it was important to start covering diversity and inclusion. So I've been incorporating that and covering that regularly since Early in my career at architects.

C I think the other publications have covered it in the past. I've just really regularly covered it, like, just Lack of diversity and what people what people are doing about it. But covering Rosa and all the folks who are doing the work is important, I think. I think it's something that When I was practicing, I would think, am I the only woman in architecture who has these thoughts? You know? Like, why or woman in engineering who has had you know, who kinda feels Talked over at meetings, you know, ignoring the construction trailer, etcetera, and then seeing that there's actually a cohort of people who are actively doing something about it really interested see. That I kind of brought that into my coverage as well. So now I cover op eds, which is usually features someone talking about inclusion or diversity or equity in design or accessibility in design. And I'll talk about business practices about companies that are trying to have a stronger work culture that's more inclusive and diverse.

A Yeah. That opens a whole another can of worms. It's one thing, I think, to get behind a movement that is top of mind for everyone. But where is publication space in all of this when it just comes to, like, raising general awareness? And is it important architecture firms.

C Publications, I believe I might be a little biased because I work for 1, but but I think they still have a great role in generating awareness about what is topical or what needs to be topical in the profession and among discussions. So In terms of our metrics, our leadership has just been increasing during the epidemic, which is no easy feat because we also have a smaller team now. So we're trying to produce as much content as we used to. But Despite that, I think people are still consuming media a lot. Part of it might be be because they are underemployed and they have time to read, Maybe looking for education, ways to continue the education while they're at home. They're remote. I mean, I personally find that I spend my free time either online, either reading the news or scrolling through social media. However, when I am not reading the news and I'm looking to I actually sit down with a print magazine and just kind of enjoy and savor that quietness of not seeing some kind of algorithm generate some kind of Feed that I have to go read immediately, so I kinda enjoy that as well.

C So I think publications still have a a major role in people's lives, in different formats. Obviously, there's so many formats now. There's definitely a lot more competition for people's attention spans too. And as you can see through all the social media platforms that are available to you, there's so much content out there now that it's hard to know what to look at, and sometimes that could be overwhelming in itself. And there's so much free content too, so a lot of publications have to compete with that. And that's why some of the business models are Being challenged right now just how to compete with free content and also still be profitable and able to ensure that that content is quality content that is actually fact checked, Has images that are licensed, has actual sources who know what they're talking about. That takes time too to do and time and, staff to do. So we've been struggling with that a little bit, but all media has.

C That's true for the entire media industry. But it's important because I think the media, especially design publications, they Serve to help vet the content that's out there for readers, to help readers identify what is salient to talk about this time, what stands out among all the noise. And a lot of that's based on because editors and writers see a lot. They get a lot of press releases. They see a lot of just other news at their, you know, just in their daily reading. So I'm hopeful publications still have a role. I mean, what do you guys how often do you guys still read?

B Well, I was just telling Evelyn that I just got my issue in the mail this for this month, and, for as long as I can remember, the architect Magazine publication that comes out, the monthly issue is, like, this artifact that has lived in every office I've ever worked in, and especially being involved with marketing, it's something that I'm I'm scanning for various reasons, and It's very ingrained in how I think about my experience at firms. It's something like we're always looking at the design award section. That issue is always a Big fat issue with a ton of content in it. And then, you know, over the years being in AIA, I always am looking for the articles that are that are written by a lot of my friends. Like, Evelyn, you have a section that you do sometimes, and the presidents of AIA get featured, but I always find that there's definitely a lot of valuable content in there that talks and taps into what's what's the pulse of the industry, what's Top of mind for people at that given moment.

A I mean, I think I'm a bit of an oddity. So, like, I found RSS feeds so long ago. So I feel like that's how I've always been consuming a lot of my News mostly because I feel like if I'm going to the same publication all the time, then I'm missing out on anything that that publication might not publish. So I, like, have more I have a broader reach, I feel, just by following various different RSS feeds, and I tend to be all digital. Yeah. Janine was like, I got my edition of Architect Magazine, and I was like, I don't remember the last thing. I got a print version of Architect since I've been all digital. But, yeah, I'm definitely consuming a lot.

A It's just interesting even amongst the 3 of us kind of how different like, how we go in search of that type of media, and find our way to it.

C I definitely will agree with you both because, as Janine mentioned, every office I worked in always has An archive of architect, doctoral record, interior design. You know? But the number of people actually using them as a reference is not very high because now if you wanna search for detail, you go online. You don't browse in pages to find a detail. Although sometimes just having that tangible feel of paper and that having that imprint in your memory is something that you can recall more readily for inspiration than, say, an online piece. And I think there's still a cache with being featured in print. It's still something and it will vary depending on Generations, of course, but it's still something you can show your parents, your grandparents about it. It's still frameable. Yeah.

C Exactly. And there's, like, a certain Exclusivity because people know that online, there's space is virtually limitless online. But in print, particularly with page budgets these days, to make it in print. You're really not only being published, but you're being published in that tier of being in print, which is also like an extra level of Being elevated, I guess. So I think that feels good to people to see themselves in print.

A As an editor, you know, if if I'm looking to get published, like, what makes 1 submission stand out above the next when it comes to deciding whether or not this is relevant for architect.

C So there's a lot of factors that come into play. I could say it was a science, but it's more just kind of it just it changes every day because every day is so different. So I think I receive between 200 and, like, 400 emails a day. So if you do just, like if I just spend, like, 10 seconds per just, like, looking at this email, it's like it's like 50 minutes of time. So I have no idea. Yeah. It's a lot.

A Next time when one is not answering my emails for any reason, I know why.

C But there are a couple of things. Usually, I can easily filter out the mass emails pretty quickly. I always say if, you know, if it's a mass email, it'll probably be massively deleted by mostly Any editor who receives it and you can tell those are emails that don't even try to mail merge your name to the email, Or they they merge in a publication that folded, like, you know, 5 years ago. So That's a start. So targeting your pitch is important. I can also filter out pitches that are presenting an idea that I just ran a story on. So if you're doing some research on the publication, what they cover, what they have covered recently, and who they've featured is important as well. Be familiar with coverage.

C Also, be familiar with the brand. What does the brand cover? So I get a lot of technology pitches, but not building technology pitches. I get a lot of On mobile technology pitches. I get a,

A It's crazy to me that people don't even Oh, it's Architect Magazine.

C I got a lot of stuff about, like, Hollywood celebrity homes, which isn't what what we really cover either. So curious. It's it's interesting, but it's not stuff can spend more than a second on. You know? If they're willing to sponsor.

A No. I think.

C Good job to check it out for sponsorship. So yeah. No. It's it's interesting how many people don't do their job basically, because I think these are companies that hire PR reps and, like, they just blanket email. Anyone who has technology in their title, they gets an email about x y z technology. Because, I mean, I get a lot of consumer electronic technology stuff. I also get a lot of emails asking for information that's readily available on our site. So our editorial calendar, for instance, or a colleague's email, all this information is pretty easily searchable on our site.

C So I that shows me that you haven't Taking the time to do the work on your end. So now I have to do do the work for you, which I probably won't respond to your email then at that point. It was it was something that's easy to do. And I think getting the editor's name right is always kind of nice. I mean, I won't necessarily I won't you out, but just it's kinda nice to know that you did your research and actually know my name. I I think maybe 1 out of every, I would say, 5 to 8 emails address me as Wendy. It's like the universal go to substitute for Wanda. I don't know why.

B Do you think it's autocorrect maybe? Like, Windy for 1. No.

C I mean, I it never has autocorrected for me and my phone.

A I don't

C know if that's like a is it I have Ios, so tell me if it's an Android thing that they don't recognize Wanda as a word.

A That's a whole another thing if they're sending their pitches from their mobile device too and not the

C Right. Right. Yes. That's an that's a whole other thing. And so and then I another thing is, like, as I mentioned, I'm working on so many stories at a time, and I get so many emails at a time that don't take personal offense if I don't respond to email. I just I just physically don't have time to respond to everyone's email. But Introducing yourself to me so I know your name. That will increase the likelihood that I will read your email and your pitch because I know that you're an interesting person.

C You probably have interesting ideas because you're at You know? So it'd be great to hear from you and see what you have to say. So that'll increase the likelihood of me opening your email. If you're someone I worked with in the past, that will also I will Usually open those emails right away because I know that they're responsive. You know, if I need a source from them, they act pretty quickly. They tell me, hey. I'm working on it. You know, just give me a, know, a day or 2. I've also been pitched stories that I'm like, oh, that sounds interesting.

C They're like, oh, never mind. I can't publish it. So don't do that. Make sure you have the clearance to publish stories. Some people do it because they pitch multiple publications, and then someone's taking it. And then they can't they have to, like, basically rescind all the other pitches that they've made, which is kinda sloppy. So be strategic about who and what you're pitching and to which outlet. I can just keep going because I saw my case studies Like, bad female pitches I receive.

C Maybe we should do that presentation.

A I also

C get a lot of pictures that are just basically empty. They don't have much

B That's that's

A the namesake. I think those are the architects that, like, you just should know me by name. Yeah. And that should be enough to to get myself Self published. I mean, what I'm hearing a lot is not dissimilar from, like, even a job hunt or, like, in our like, on the marketing side, Janine, like, what you, you know, what you should be doing for a marketing proposal, looking at a potential client. Like, these are all skills that I think are good for everyone to have for a variety of different reasons whether or not you're pitching a publication. Are you one of those editors that will strike up a conversation in Twitter?

C I'm not confrontational, which Some people are. I just I'm not in a place that I can be a confrontation. I don't have the time and head space to dedicate to that right now. If someone wants to message me with an idea, sure. I'll definitely be like, oh, here's my email. Just reach out to me directly. You know? But if it's on a public forum, I I won't I probably won't do a deep dive conversation on a and have it be on a public platform. I have people reach out to me with pitches on LinkedIn, Twitter, mostly those 2.

A Do you have a preferred platform for pitches. Do you prefer the email?

C I think the email is probably my preferred platform. And my email is on architect site, so that also shows me you've taken the step of finding my email, at least. The other thing that's important, especially for design publication, is to include imagery. Even if it's not a project pitch, just we have to usually publish some kind of image. Just helps with readability, obviously. So if you have any ideas for images, Headshots, drawings, diagrams, you know, that kind of stuff.

A I'm laughing only because Wanda has to ask for an image for every single one of my hair.

C I know.

A And then we don't Evelyn, you need an image. Then we could

C get a custom yellow for just for Evelyn. Sorry. But and then the other thing is annoying is that people are like, oh, do you wanna see images of this project? I'm like, yes. But I don't wanna email you to ask for images of this project. Just send them to me initially. I won't publish them beforehand. I promise to that, like, getting permissions. So even just a PDF of images is fine.

C PDF of Laura's images is fine. Just something that helps me visually understand Why the story is important. So that's another thing. So I think that's why email is my preferred because you can you can include, you know, attachments, images, More contact information, any kind of past URLs, and not have to worry about being too wordy because there's no text limit on your message.

A Right. Can you

B give us an example or maybe, like, a case study of, like, a pitch that you got that was really great that went all the way to being published and Perhaps maybe, like, outline a little bit of the DNA of what makes a great pitch.

C So I was I believe I was pitched or I received this, like, a, hey. This is what's going on. But I was pitched the agenda building for innovative sustainable design back when ideation, what I think was so was in concept design, and that's at Georgia Tech's campus. And the project seemed really innovative because it was In the South, it was gonna be the 1st building in the South, I believe, pursuing living building certification, especially in Atlanta, which is a pretty hot and humid place to be doing a living building. And ImageAssets, I think, are set because they had hired someone else to be basically an on-site editor who's covering the process of the project on behalf of the building, on behalf of the university. So I had a lot of good source material to read, to know that this project was important, to know what kind of interesting aspects were going on with it. And had a lot of imagery already, both in terms of renderings and eventually progress images and then eventually final images, obviously. I also happen to be going there to Georgia Tech for a conference, like, maybe in 3 months after that.

C So I got to visit the site and meet some of the designers and the planners behind the project. Eventually, I interview the architects, who I believe is Miller Hall with, I wanna say, Lord x sergeant. Yes. With. And then I cover so many projects. I'm sorry. Yeah. No.

C I just, like, stole my stories. But I got to talk with with them both, and the interviews went well. They You know, they provide insightful quotes that I can actually use, not generic statements. So having communications or media people being able just to prep people who I'm gonna speak with so they know questions I might ask and be ready to answer these questions with interesting information, not just, oh, this is a green building. It's, you know, it's Gonna be living building a house. Oh, it's gonna have photovoltaics on top. Yeah. So being ready with sources.

C They're also we're ready with images that were available for me to publish. You know? And it it's not necessarily you don't have to own the copyright. Just give us the contact information for us to be able able License the images, have that readily available. That helps a lot just expedite the process and makes everything smoother for us. And that became a story.

A So that was like a so that was more of a pitch of a building. And then did it sounds like you actually went ahead and developed what the actual story was out of that building.

C Right. So we didn't actually cover it as, like, as a project portfolio spread or anything. We covered it as the first one of the first living buildings in the south, and this is how they actually executed it. So then that was what drew me to the story.

B Yeah. It is a compelling idea and pretty unique.

C Yeah.

A Which is something because I've always been under the assumption, like, I like, well, when I pitched, I was like, these are my 5 story ideas. But I also don't have the typical architecture projects in my portfolio to pull out and say, hey, I'm doing something really unique here. Like let's develop a story together. So, so that was a new twist for me on kind of a different way to pitch, I guess.

C Yeah. And I'm also not a person who covers project portfolios. I'm not a person who covers beautiful projects necessarily, just on the face level. So That's why Evelyn and I work together because, you know, I I mean, things I cover are are thought leadership, opinions, Technical expert experts experts on business, something that's different from all the other stuff that's every firm does. You know? So Right. I look for the newsworthy bits of information that you can offer me as a contributor or a source or a writer.

B Having worked with architects, I know how much they they don't love writing

A and that They aren't also. Architects are horror like, me too, by the way, and apologies to all those who read my newsletter because I think I find at least 1 grammatical error every week after it goes out. But architects historically aren't known for being good writers. But, anyways, Where

C were you headed with that?

B Well, no. I totally agree. I mean, there's there's some rare ones and and when you, like, finally get them seated and thinking and putting all these beautiful things that they can say in an interview into writing. They do start to get some really strong nuggets, but I found, especially as a marketer, that it takes a lot of coaching to get them there. And so I was wondering if you've had that experience too as an editor trying to help them through the process of telling their story.

A Especially, like, the communicate like, the communication of the technical jargon, I think, a broader audience.

C So I used to work in marketing as well. So I'm familiar with translating what sounds good in studio to what a client might actually understand. So well said. I'm trying to say it diplomatically. That was very diplomatic. I mean, there's a lovely lexicon that evolves when you're in studio, but no one else understands it. You know? So and I and I speak twice.

A There's whole books on Archa speak. Right?

C So And I'm guilty of too because when I was an engineer, I used to try to be too creative in my writing for engineering, and I always get just, like, red pen all over. Like, oh, this is not creative writing. This is this is engineering. We have to, like, know If it's a piece this piece is falling down, you have to say this piece is falling down. You can't say, oh, it's just, you know, floating in there. So I'm guilty of it myself. So for the technical Stories. Because I have a technical background, I know what questions to ask to really kinda hone in on what the person wants to say and then also then explain it back with context so that person who may not have that background can understand what's going on in the picture.

C I do work a lot with architects 1 on 1 in their writing, especially for op eds, because the architect will get the byline, but I'm usually there helping them write and just streamline their thoughts into 1 or 2 messages that are clear. The word count is limited because of the print, but that also helps limit how much extra text can be in the story. So I try to to distill what is the greater message that I think that they wanna say. And they're trying to say it, but they just kind of are all over the place initially saying it perhaps, and it's not any particular op ed contributor. It's it's a gamut of writing abilities, which is fine because that's not their job to be writers. You know? It's their job to be architects. So

B So I'm right. They might have a, you know, paintbrush of many ideas, and then you help them. I have found that a lot of my architects, like, Tend to lean towards wanting to be comprehensive is the word I'd use. And then I think in this case, like, a big key would be to you know, That there's like like you said, 1 or 2 ideas really is what you're looking for in a publication.

C It's all really that a reader can grasp in a moment, especially for online Attention spans. You don't really wanna read about 10 different ideas in 1 piece. It's just too much to take in, and then your your message gets gets lost or diluted. And and I'm and I love I do enjoy working with Architects 1 0 1 because at the end of the process, they're just like, wow. This piece has evolved so dramatically. It's I can see the difference so clearly, and it's Great to hear that. And I'm glad that I would say in 98% of the cases, no one takes offense at me kind of being heavy handed and steering how the text flows because I think that in the end, they see that I'm really just trying to help them get their message clarified. And it it just sounds more understandable and more accessible to the reader.

A I would also say more intelligent in here.

C Just a different way of, you know, just a way different way of presenting the intelligence, I guess. Because ultimately, it's their story and their message and their narrative that they're that they're offering to share with me, which I'm honored to help them do. So and I'm glad they let me do my job as an editor to help them.

A As in one of my social groups, or actually earlier today, and there was a young grad who, you know, is interested in getting published. And my feedback to individuals, and I'd like to to test this with an actual editor it's been a long time since I've been in any type of role like that, is do your due diligence like you talked about earlier and go out and pitch. It doesn't matter whether or not you've previously been published. It's more about the idea. And then if for any reason you can't publish, or get picked up anywhere to to self publish because you also kind of alluded to the variety of different mechanisms there are out there. And I think Self publishing in and of itself is just kind of it's it's a good habit to get into, and then it commits your voice to a broader audience, and then it it provides just another method for people to kind of find what you're talking about online.

C It's solid advice, Evelyn. I was I was just gonna say because there are so many opportunities to self publish now, even if it's just like a blog on your site, they'll help you with SEO, in terms because I I will say that I a lot of my sources I just find by organic search. Another mechanism is just presenting at a conference Or joining a committee to help plan a conference, I'll usually look at those lists to see who is active in this space and who could be a good source. I also look at people who I follow and to see who they're following. So, you know, see who I should know about. So just kinda developing a presence for yourself, and it doesn't have to be about necessarily built work. It could be about Education, you know, education reform, activism, community engagement, those topics interest me as well. So just being active and having a presence on the space in in the online world is useful.

C Like you said, there's so many venues now. You can develop your own soapbox.

A Is there a venue that is more credible than the other? Like because there's Medium. LinkedIn has the ability. Like, If I don't have a blog, where else should I be posting to?

C So LinkedIn is Good. And I think if you get more engagement, people who aren't LinkedIn to you are more likely to see it, especially someone that I'm on LinkedIn too, like, likes it, then I'll see it then I think. So that LinkedIn is good. Medium tends to have just, like, a wide variety of stories, but I do find some good content on there. Like, Ming Ming Thompson had published something about the loss of women in the work sector due to the due to the pandemic, and that she initially published that on Medium, but then she pitched it to me as something for an op ed. And I was like, this is great. You know? So I just kinda tightened up a little bit and published an architect with the original link back to Medium, of course. I think conferences are also just because someone from the conference has vetted your credibility and or your idea, that's also something that I View as a great potential.

C This is these are great subjects here for future stories. That helps a lot too. So, being active in AIA, the local chapters, because I'm more interested in tech stuff. Like Acadia is a good one that I look at a lot. Some university ones are nice too. University symposia. So those are kind of credible sites that I look at for sources.

A I think even, Wanda reaches out to me all the time too about, Hey. I'm looking at this type of story. Do you know anyone in this space? So I think even building connections with the contributors helps. Mhmm.

B What was that moment where you stepped into writing? Because you both have this transition in your career where you went from thinking about it and and wanting to do it to actually doing it. So can you share more about that journey?

A I want to start.

C Okay. Okay. So I've always had either the fortune or, circumstance in which my technical job involved a lot of writing. So when I was an engineer, I did A lot of report writing, which helped me hone my technical writing skills and also just translating technical information to a layperson to understand what the solution is. And then when I went to grad school, obviously, there's a lot of writing involved, a thesis and lots also a lot of presentations. I was also active in the graduate magazine at MIT, so I wrote for them. That helped me kind of develop my interest for human interest stories and culture stories. Like I said, I I over prepared.

C So right after I went to MIT for building technology. I got a master's in journalism, which also honed my writing skills and also just reporting skills, media law, fact checking skills, Copy editing. So my transition, I guess, was long. I probably could just have jumped into magazines maybe, maybe not. But I I probably should transition from a technical field to journalism over the course of, I would say, 6 to 10 years, I guess, which is really long. But that's that's from full time technical job to full time writing job. And then, of course, when I after I was at Syracuse, I was at Men's Health Magazine for a while, which is awesome, by the way. Just strange environment, but very cool environment.

C And then

A I actually never knew you were there.

C I was there for, 6 months, but then I got a job at KSS Architects doing communications and marketing and web blogging for them, which was great too because that was my My firsthand look at the business development side of architecture, which is Mhmm. Hasn't formed a lot of my business writing. But I was at Men's House for 6 months, And I stayed with them afterwards as a freelancer just doing research, but it was a lot of fun to see what consumer consumer magazine is different space than a trade magazine, a trade publication. So just like the the audience is so vast. And you talk to, like, more famous people because you have more We're standing as a consumer magazine. You can say we have 10,000,000 viewers versus, you know, whatever. So that was my transition. Pretty gradual and Plot it out, I guess, almost.

B Did you know you wanted to apply for Architect Magazine, or did that happen just kinda by chance?

C I've always as you mentioned Before, I've always seen architect in the office. So I used to just page the magazines, look at their mastheads, and be like, how do I get on your masthead? How do I get that job? So then I saw the opening, and I applied. And I actually had to apply twice because the editor in chief at the time, Ned Kramer, also receives Thousands of emails a day. So he didn't see my initial email, so I followed up with him, maybe 2 weeks later. And he's like, oh my god. Then he called me the same day that he got my email. So Just keep that's another thing I wanna say about pitching. Just keep following up maybe once a week because sometimes things get buried.

C Evelyn, what was your story?

A I've always enjoyed writing. There was one distinct moment, gonna call her out. I don't know if she even listens to the podcast, but one of my undergrad Professors Joy Erdman asked me I was like a 2nd or 3rd year, and she asked me to help a 5th year with her thesis writing. And then I I don't know. It's just like one of those moments where it's like somebody else acknowledged that you have a specific skill, and the ability to help others along. Needless to say that 5th year never followed up. Being much, you know, and I guess, you know, being in in a different studio level than them. But I I don't know.

A I I saw it as an incredible gateway. I mean, my experience on in Habitat was weird because, first of all, I was getting paid to write for a blog, which back in those days, back in those days, like in 2003, 2004, was like, you know, everybody's like, why are you writing for a blog? But I got All of these amazing invites as press to functions as, like, a young architect that I didn't I couldn't afford to go to out of pocket on my own. So, like, I mean, AIA conference, I was able to register as Press so before I was even ever engaged in national, like, I found my way to conference that way. I didn't have to pay for, like, anything except like room board and transportation. Usually it's registration that's covered. Dwell on design before dwell on design got as big as it did, They had some very exclusive, like, dwell, kind of, like, more intimate functions where they would bring in publications. And then I was also the head the the editor for the LA area. So I was like, there's all of these famous celebrity homes.

A So I got to go to Lisa Ling's house, because it was built. It's like a lead platinum home in Santa Monica. So there's Like, I don't know, there's it just opened up a world of opportunities for me that I wouldn't have gotten as a young architect. My favorite, though, was, the opening of City Center in Las Vegas. For those of you who have never been to City Center, it's a complex of, like, these sustainable hotels right off of the Strip. Most of them are MGM, but it's a mix of hotels. And when any new casino opens, let alone many casinos open, they have these days that are usually just for the locals called play days. You literally get play money, and you get to apply this play money to anything on property.

A So it went to spa visits. It went to, all the food and the restaurants there to make sure just So they make sure everything was running and it like, you could even play the poker tables with play money. And when you ran out of play money, you were given more money. And that was, like, free room and board flight and, hotel. So I guess I said free room and board, but, like, that was all expensive as paid. So, like, Like, writing has opened up so many experiences that otherwise I would not have access to.

B So what do you all recommend for, Young architects or even mid career professionals that they're interested in potentially getting published.

A I'm gonna leave this to our guests.

C So I think just to summarize, be aware of the brand. Don't be afraid to introduce yourself somehow, But do so with a goal in mind of what you wanted to share, whether it be a project or a thought or opinion on something. I take a once weigh something. Speaking for me personally, know what I've covered, know what the brand has covered in the past, so don't pitch anything that's been recently done. Follow-up because we just got a lot of emails, unfortunately. I just don't have the time to read everyone. And figure out the story you wanna tell and be ready when we respond to you, to follow-up with images, you know, source ideas, you know, anything else that you can show us that you've done your research and that you have a real real worthwhile story here. Because we probably want to cover it.

C We just you know, we need to know you have to show us why to cover it. So and then I think part of as Evelyn was saying, that part of The fun of being a an editor, an architect is meeting all these amazing designers and engineers and architects and emerging designers. It's been it's been It's it's amazing how much access you can get to people because they know that you're helping them tell their story or share their projects. You know? So it's it's nice to Have that kind of working relationships and networking is useful.

A Yeah. I would say, like, also, these are things that I think everyone's always looking to differentiate themselves and to build a portfolio. So, you know, we have always architects always think of a portfolio as things that, like, are filled with beautiful buildings. This is something that you can use when you go after an associate award, a young architect award. It's to getting published, and and it's a worthwhile pursuit.

C And I I think just to add on into that, other benefits include Future clients looking for who they should shortlist for their RFQs. Large firms looking for local firms to partner with either as their associate architect or Look you know, local architect. And as I mentioned, I'm always looking for sources online. You know? So first people who Up here on conference symposia or speaking or have some interesting thing going on. So there's a lot of reasons to try to get your name out there. And then also, that said, if if you're happy if you're content with where you are, have, like, a perfect amount of work that's coming in, don't answer the need for it, then don't do it. But if you if you want to just kind of Increase your presence on a global platform. Publications help.

A So I'm gonna start off by asking you, Janine, if you Or what was your biggest takeaway or an interesting takeaway from the conversation?

B I was really glad that Wanda kinda walked us through the process of What from her perspective, she needs to do her job. And that information, the case study that she provided, which we've Provided a link to that article in the show notes along with the process that she outlined. I think it really brings transparency to Why an architect might not be getting their work published.

A Yeah. I also think, and I don't think architects do this enough. And I don't know if it's because we're not trained to do it enough, and I think it was definitely beaten into my head at UCLA, lesser so at the Presidio. I don't know, you know, if it was beaten into your head when you were pursuing your MBA at Mills, but the necessity to research who you're contacting before you reach out and contact them, whether it's for publication, whether it's for a job interview, whether it's for an interview on a project and really meet them where they are so they see value in what you're trying to sell them.

B I think I had to learn that lesson in my job locations and then also when I was doing marketing, basically, people don't have time to read what you're sending to them, and they're not gonna magically understand what's so great about you versus someone else or your idea versus another idea. You have to tell the story. You have to create the scenario and explain it in a way that is compelling to them, and that includes understanding who they are, what their perspective might be and just some basic information about, like, their name, their title. What kind of articles do they publish?

A Right. Wendy as opposed to Wanda. I don't know. I I think if anything, hopefully this reaffirms the necessity, like I said, to do the research before you reach out to individuals. And I the thing is you will get more feedback if you do than if you don't, and this is true of even informational interview. I don't I've really tried to open up myself this last year to to informational interviews. People are that are like, Oh, you've had a really interesting career path, you know, I'd like to get in touch with you and talk about it. And we get on the phone and they're like, I don't know what to talk about, and I just, like, wanna hang up.

A I don't, but, like, if you actually had been researching it and actually had some questions that you really needed answers to, then you would have gotten answers to those questions. Anyways. No. But that Sorry to take us aside a little bit. But I think it's a really

B good point. I mean, nobody wants to feel like their time is being wasted, and If it's a matter of, I think it will look good if my work gets published, or I really wanna meet Evelyn just so she's one of my contacts. Like, That's a very shallow transaction, and I think that's exactly what we're talking about. You have to bring depth to Your transactions like, if you wanna get published, get to the reason why. Like, what's so great about your project or your idea that's gonna add value? And if you wanna, like, ask somebody to take 30 minutes or an hour out of their day to talk to you, it needs to be grounded in questions and tangible things that are worth that person's time.

A Absolutely. Like, don't make Wanda send another response to your email asking for pictures of the project.

B Oh, yeah, Evelyn. Don't do that.

A Well, she yes. I I need to create actual graphics for Wanda, but at the that aside, if you're talking about a project with her, send the pictures with the project. Any Credible Magazine is not going to publish a project with the images, like, proper like improperly attributed. She will probably if she's interested, she will circle back around and ask you for who the actual photographer was, and make sure, you know, they have the all clear for publication. But, the the other thing that I I think is hopefully stressed is that I don't think publishing and publications are dying. I think people are still seeking out media in short and even there's even research out there that says that a lot more people are seeking out long form media, which is why Medium has become such a success. So I still believe that whether it is with a magazine or whether you're self publishing, there's validity and using that as a mechanism to grow knowledge expertise and as a way to position yourself or your firm against other applicants or other firms when people start googling about sustainable expertise or high end residential in your area or Wellness and health care and how those things 2 things go together. Things have this incredibly long life on the Internet, and you can leverage that in the best way possible.

B Another thing that I heard, Evelyn, which you kinda spoke to is that People we make assumptions about ways in which people receive information. Historically, architects have looked at print publications as the premier way of having their work shown, and you and Wanda kinda started talking about this other way that You're researching the articles that you're reading, which is not purely just based on looking at Architect Magazine's website and going to look at their Month to month issue, but rather, like, you you talked about an RSS feed where you're kind of coalescing different articles from across the web that relate to a bunch of articles and topics that you're interested in.

A Yeah. So, I mean, I think that goes to the the extent that it's not only important to publish, but I think it's also important to publish often, which now I know there's Gonna be at least a handful of listeners kind of rolling their eyes and saying this is, like, another thing that I don't have time to do, which is fine. But I think if you are looking to really grow expertise to to stand out, to be different and this is an incredible opportunity to define a voice so people know what it's like to work with you, which if you're comparing apples to apples when it comes to price on a project, then I think the next default is, do I wanna work with this person on this project, or do I wanna hire this person to be in my firm? Like, I think It also there's a level of informality or balance of informality and formality in your writing that kind of expresses who you are and might make you more accessible to some people, especially the firms that you would like to work at or the people you would like to work with.

B I wanna ask you about it was really nice to hear your journey into writing and and becoming Someone who's contributing on a regular basis to publications, but what specifically what advice can you share with someone who's interested in defining their expertise in this industry and then, like, translating that into getting published in a in a magazine like architect.

A I think even if you've never been published before, it never hurts out to reach out to publication with an idea with even a full article. And then if no publication will take it, then find find a place that you want to publish consistently to you, whether it's your own blog or whether it's to Medium, whether it's to LinkedIn, whether it's publishing to all 3, which I've done on occasion before, but really just building that consistency in that expertise. I also want to let people know since we're all about pivoting on Practice Disrupted and the practice of architecture and the fact that we all grow and change over time. I used to be an editor at in Habitat Magazine, and that's the world's largest sustainable design blog. I was on the sustainable side of architecture, but I was horrible at the technical jargon, and I could frankly care less about which skin on the facade does what for sustainable like, not that I could care less, I just couldn't care as much as the people that are real experts in the field. So I stepped away from that, and I went to business school and I've repositioned themselves. But because I wrote so much for Inhabitat, John Sornicki asked me to come and be a regular contributor to call him even though I've kind of evolved my identity by then. So, you know, don't be worried about putting yourself out there and then changing your mind.

A I think there's still value in creating creating a voice that gets you an audience, and you don't know, like, what path that could lead you down next.

B I think that that's a really good place to end. I mean, I hope that, you'll take a second to check out the show notes. We've got, the article that Wanda mentions as well as a link back to Architect Magazine. So go check it out, look at some of the projects and some of the features, and let us know what you liked about this episode.

A Great. Thanks for listening, and tune in next week. Thanks for joining us on Practice Disrupted, a podcast by practice of architecture. Visit us at practice of architecture.com to find out more about future episodes and the changing nature of practice.

B We have several ways you can get involved with our growing community, find us on social media at practice of arc. You can also become a member of the POA lab or join us On Patreon.

A And if you wanna take your career or practice to the next level, Janine and I also consult, provide workshops, and speak regularly on this research, we would love an opportunity to collaborate with you.

B This show is part of Gable Media. You can learn more about other podcasts and video channels in our community by visiting gablmedia.com.

A We are also looking for sponsors who want to partner with us in 2021 and beyond. If that's you, please contact me directly at evelyn@practiceofarchitecture.com.

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A Don't forget to share with your friends, and feel free to let us know what other topics or speakers you're interested in hearing from. Thanks for listening, and see you next