2023 AIA Architecture Firm Award Winner, Mithun

A I'm Evelyn Lee.

B And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

A Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects.

B Welcome to practice Disrupted

A Foreigners. Hello Janine.

B Hi Evelyn. Hi Disruptors. This week we're welcoming recipients of the 2023 AIA Architecture Firm Award to join us on the podcast. We've taken a fresh approach to this episode by inviting emerging leaders to join us to tell the story of Mithune, and that seems appropriate considering they're an interdisciplinary firm. In today's conversation, we're hoping to take a behind the scenes look at what makes this firm so special.

A Methune is an integrated design firm dedicated to creating positive change in people's lives. The firm's team of architects, landscape architects, interior designers, urban designers and planners work in a wide range of typologies and scales with a focus on urban environments and places where people live, work and learn. Methune is an internationally recognized leader in sustainability, combining exemplary design with a focus on building and site performance, human health and social equity.

B I was recently in Seattle and stopped by their office to say hello. Their office is located in one of the historic piers along Alaska Way with incredible views towards the Seattle waterfront. I have to say that I was completely blown away by the design of their interior space and had the opportunity to meet today's guests and Greg, Katie and Michael in person.

A These leaders represent individuals who have grown their careers at Methune and are invested in the culture and leadership of its future. Greg Catron is an architect and senior associate who has been with Methune for almost nine years. He has a passion for complex, technically challenging design with diverse experience in residential, high rise, mixed use development, educational facilities, cultural centers and office design.

B Katie Stage is an architect and senior associate at Methune who is passionate about pursuing interdisciplinary solutions to complex land use challenges. Katie Co leads Muthune's R&D efforts, supports strategic climate resilience initiatives and works on design teams at the district, neighborhood and building scale.

A He works in finding synergies in EDI and design through professional work experience on multifamily residential education and master planning projects. Welcome Greg, Katie and Michael. Let's jump into the conversation.

B So we always start by asking our guests to kind of introduce themselves. We've kind of teased out your bios, but why don't you tell us in your own words a little about each of yourselves.

C Cool. Well, maybe before we get into It. I just want to briefly thank you guys both for having us here today. I think we really appreciate you reaching out, and we're super excited to be talking to you both. My name is Greg Catrion. As you mentioned, I'm an architect and senior associate here at Methune. Hand it over to Katie maybe.

D I'm Katie Steggy. I'm also a senior associate at Methune. I've been with the practice for about six years, and I work really at the intersection between architectural and environmental design.

E And I'm Michael Bryant. I'm an architect and senior associate at Methune. I've been there for about eight years. Originally from Miami, Florida, and excited to be here today.

A So Practice Disrupted is all about architects in practice. And obviously each of you have a long tenure at Methune, but we would love to hear a little bit more about your roots and why you wanted to be an architect in the first place. Let's try reverse order. Michael, why don't you jump in?

E As I mentioned earlier, originally from Miami, Florida, I first started to be interested in architecture around the age of five. I would watch my uncle build these models in the hallway, and it really, really sparked the passion for me in design. So as I grew up, I explored this through constructing cities all throughout the house with found objects, pretty much anything I could find, and then continued to explore that through drawing and going to art school. Early on, moved out here to University of Oregon, where I studied architecture, and then I got my first job in Seattle working underneath the principal, who really embodied the full spirit of Bethune. I'm talking about someone who was curious, really focused on being a good person, a really great mentor, really get great advocate for my growth, and then also someone who really empowered me to grow as I moved throughout. So when I applied to Mithune and I saw those qualities pretty much right there at my forefront, it really just seemed like a natural fit to move forward.

D Cool. I'll jump in next. I always been a really creative kid from a very early age, but I also really thrived in math and science. Science. This is obviously a career that blends both sides. As a rural mountain kid in Colorado, I also became really curious about the social, economic, and environmental conditions that led to the drastically different built environments around me. I traveled all over the mountain west for ski racing. And it seems like a small thing, but growing up in a tiny, scrappy bedroom community that served the surrounding glitzy resort towns, it really pushed my curiosity for affordable housing and sustainable design.

D Pretty early in life. I did Undergrad at University of Colorado, worked for a little while for some small design build firms, and then did grad school out on the east coast and came screaming back west to Methune, first as an intern in my last year of grad school. And I was really searching for a deeply sustainable practice with a wide variety of work. And that summer ended up being an excellent fit. I returned after graduating, and I've been here for about six years.

C Well, this question's always kind of funny to me because my father's actually an architect, and you'd think that would be a big part of the answer. But, you know, back in 2008, around when I was starting college, my father was very low key, trying to convince me not to be an architect. But I think it's actually probably more of my mother, who kind of immersed me in design and art as a kid. She's a museum curator and an art historian in Virginia. And she really instilled this sense that art and design is something that has a huge impact on our environment. It sort of reflects back to us, who we are as people and as a society, the good, the bad and the ugly. And I always really connected with that and saw value in that. And so, you know, around the time that I decided I wanted to try to find something in the arts that could be rewarding and exciting, you know, architecture kind of always really sung to me.

C And also, as you know, to be frank, as a queer kid in the south of the United States, I really wanted to be in the arts and something that I thought I could sort of survive in financially. And so that was a big driver for me, just trying to get out to the west coast eventually in my life. So, anyway, I went to Virginia Tech for architecture school, which was an amazing experience. I can't speak highly enough of that school, but really, it's sort of instilled in me this idea that design materials, all of these things that I really love about architecture, have such an amazing impact on the world and really got me to think more not only about how we impact space, but also how we impact the environment around us. And so in the same way that Katie's talking about looking for a firm that was really deep green, that was really important to me as a student. And it wasn't really something that was a big part of my, you know, everyday studio life in school. And so I got connected with Mithun for an amazing professor shout out to Patrick Doane, who helped me kind of cook Mithune. And I got to know them a little bit more and was really excited and believed in the things that Mithune was doing.

C And I'd been very lucky to work at a number of firms before this through internships in school. And I actually got to intern at Mithune the, the summer before I graduated. And the biggest thing to me was the people I loved, the people that I worked with. And I believed not only the work, but I believed in the people too. So that's one reason that I ended up here and that I've stayed here.

B We wanted to know what winning the Firm of the Year award means to each of you. I'm sure that was a really big moment when you all found out.

D Yeah, it was a really big moment. Energy at the pier was palpable that day for sure. And for me it's. It's really a recognition of legacy as much as is about the practice as it is today. There's been a trajectory of design excellence that started way before any of the three of us were at the firm. But it's also really meaningful to be part of that success and see the ways that each of us have personally impacted that and will impact it moving forward. For me specifically, I've had a role in shaping Methune's R and D programs and research and innovation played a tangible role in that firm award submission. So it's neat to see our fingerprints on the future focused aspirations of the firm and to be recognized kind of at the top level by peers in the industry.

E And I echo Katie. I think it is really good to be recognized by the collective strides that the firm has made. But I also thought that it comes with a great deal of responsibility to continue doing good work moving forward and to just really impact and try to make a positive change wherever we go.

C I think it was also exciting to see the sort of integrated interdisciplinary model being celebrated as well. Matthew's not the only one that practices this, but I think that it's such a deep rooted part of who we are as a firm. And I've really enjoyed working with urban designers, with interior designers, with landscape architects, and have learned so much from them. And I think working together just has made for an amazing experience as a designer and having more holistic designs and making a bigger impact on the community than you otherwise might even realize you can. That was exciting to see celebrated.

A It's interesting to me that you guys are talking about the work, which is, I think, where architects generally talk about when they talk about their firm. But Janine and I have been on, on the jury side of The Firm of the Year award. And one thing that continuously comes up in our conversations actually is how they develop their individual people within the firm and the firm culture. So Katie, I'd love for you to jump in and maybe tell us a little bit about even the firm ownership model and how that's structured a little bit differently at Mithune.

D Totally. To play off your question a little bit too, I will first say that when I hear about good firm culture or talking about firm culture, to describe my firm, Methune's firm culture as a good firm culture almost does it a disservice. Greg said in the beginning, like the people are one of the reasons why we are all here. And I cannot overstate how much respect and love and joy we get from being able to design and create with these folks every day. So I wanted to a pin in that. But for our ownership model, we're a corporation. We're about 180 employees and around 30 shareholders. So about one in six employees are shareholders.

D And we have a. That's a pretty broad ownership model versus a more traditional, highly concentrated ownership amongst just a few people. Our shareholder group is currently about 55% female. And to talk about our desire to constantly evolve as a practice, about 20 years ago that shareholder group was just over 15% female. So we're always looking for better ways to represent the communities you serve and the people who are actually in our practice. This shareholder group is representative of all disciplines and we're generationally diverse and we intentionally are focused on reflecting firm diversity at the leadership level. And we span from about 10 years of experience to over 40 within that group. That shareholder group acts as the broad firm leadership, but we're embracing leadership contributions at all levels.

D And then that group elects a board of directors which is comprised of seven folks who steward the firm on behalf of the shareholders.

B So there are a few components, I think of your, of why Mithun was chosen as the winner of this award. And we wanted to go into those topics in a little more depth. So the first one that we should touch on, and you've said this a few times in your comments, but interdisciplinary, like the idea of an interdisciplinary practice. Can you help our audience understand what that means and what does it look like in your studio?

C Yeah, I can talk a little bit about that. So I think before I get into details, that I think the biggest thing that we talk about internally quite a bit and externally as well, but we have a huge emphasis on breaking down silos and that can mean a lot of different things. One way that we try to engage with that is we aren't a design studio approach firm in terms of our office organization and our overall, the way that we chase work. I guess, you know, one example of that being that I, you know, there's not like one specific scope of work that people get sort of pushed into, you know, early on in their career. I've been here about nine years and I've worked on, as I mentioned, you know, high rise, residential and museum and office. Like, I've been all over the place. There's. You don't get pigeonholed into one spot.

C And I think that there's a lot of reasons for that. It makes you more experienced as a designer and engaging with different aspects of what our industry does. But it also puts you in a place where you can engage with as an architect, as me, speaking from that lens, you know, get to engage with landscape architects and urban designers, interior designers, in a lot of different ways that you might not otherwise. You know, for example, if you get sort of put into a world where you are working specifically on, like, spec office buildings in an urban environment, there might be a really limited scope of landscape design, for example, that you might otherwise be able to interface with on a daily basis. It's not always true, but might be a little bit more limiting than say, if you were working in more, I don't know, suburban environments with larger greenfield sites, things like that. And so the way the office is organized is again, not by this. This design studio structure. You're constantly moving around the office.

C You're sitting by different people all the time. You know, right now, where I sit in the office, I think I've got two landscape architects behind me, I've got other architects around me, I've got interior designers across from where I sit. Everybody is sort of spread out around partially to get exposure to each other's craft and daily work, but also just to help create this sense of mentorship within the office. And that's not mentorship. That's limited, just within a discipline. Somebody who is a landscape architect might be able to receive mentorship from somebody who is in marketing, who's in architecture, and all these different disciplines that exist within our firm, I think is a really important part of how we operate. And I've loved that about Muffune. Even parts of the way our office is built, like it's all one open space.

C There's no enclosed personal offices. It's all very acoustically open to each other and hearing other people talk on the phone, you know, as A young architect hearing people have casual conversations about design, again not just in architecture, but all these other disciplines has really helped me grow and I think helps a lot of other people at the firm grow as well. I've learned so much about specifically landscape architecture because I've been really lucky to work on a lot of really landscape architecture heavy projects, which is, it's just so much easier to have a holistic, impactful design in that sense when you can be sitting next to somebody working on a project versus if we were just like an architecture firm for example, you know, we would have to go spend more effort trying to reach out and communicate with consultants who might be, you know, exterior landscape architects or exterior interior architects, things like that. It just makes the process harder. And so I found a lot of joy in just having that exposure on a daily basis and being able to break down those silos as I mentioned. In that sense, I would say even

E approaching project is truly like all hands on deck. So what I find is really unique is at the start of a project you'll have a landscape architecture architect, interior architect, architects, all sitting around the same table and sharing those ideas real time. As Greg mentioned earlier, it's not like you have to call up that landscape architect or call that urban designer and schedule particular meeting times. It's like it's really nice to just have them at your fingertips or right next to you. So being able to see those real time effects has been quite unique.

B I do want to comment on Katie, you mentioned the culture and the people and Greg, you're talking about the way the studio is designed. I do want to comment because you know, I'd never been to your space and of course we're talking about your Seattle based office, not the other locations. I haven't experienced that. But since you all work in that space, there was something as a visitor walking into that space that was super noticeable to me energetically. And the vibe, I don't know, it's like that intangible thing. It's beautiful space. But just to paint a picture in our listeners minds, you look down this amazing access towards the waterfront. There's all this like natural light coming in and then these like really warm tones of the wood that you all integrated and I'm sure new and old and a lot of texture and depth in that.

B But what I noticed is, well Katie, like we walked up and you were sitting at a table that was like kind of tucked off to the side within the studio. And then that's where we met. And then I think Marna and I were sitting at a table, but there were all these, like, different places that you could gather and congregate and then you could split off. And then like Michael was over at his desk and he was working and then he came over and talked to us. I know that's not different than most open offices, but there is something about the way that you all have designed it that I think has. I do get the sense that it adds that collaboration that you're talking about. I felt that in the space, yeah,

D it really emphasizes the team based aspect and the fact that we're centered around projects, not specific disciplines. And that that part of the office where we met is called the colab, where we steward a lot of our more recent grads and the latest digital technology skills and that huge table and huge screen. Giving folks the ability to move around with a laptop is actually really important to the culture of that space, as well as all of the informal mentorship that it takes to really allow some to thrive as a practice.

C There's also, like you just said something, Janine, that made me think of this as well. But I think there's also something about making a space allowing its inhabitants to feel approachable, like in the same sense where, like a private office makes somebody feel very not accessible. I think the big part of what our office is able to do is help to build respect among the different levels of team members here and in the fact that everybody's accessible all the time. You can walk over somewhere and not have to worry about creating too much noise or bothering someone. You can tell someone's on the phone, you can tell someone's busy. But this idea of approachability I think really helps to make people feel comfortable, especially younger designers in our office who are new to the industry and might have or have experienced different kinds of offices that don't feel that way. And it, again, just helps people have a voice here, I think, and feel comfortable to participate in what we do on a daily basis.

A So Katie started, you know, you started mentioning the transition and kind of the momentum behind creating greater diversity, especially within leadership. I'd like to kind of dive a little bit deeper on that centering on equity. We've obviously seen in her or we've obviously heard some of the outcomes of Mathun's focus on this. But I would love to understand, you know, what is, at a more very specific level, what is Mathun's approach to diversity and inclusion within the firm and, and the steps that you're taking to continually improve upon that.

E So I'll jump in here. So there's been a long culture, equity, diversity and inclusion at Methune with joining the just label, for instance, or being a part of an endowment fellowship with the University of Washington or scholarship funds for underrepresented students in architecture and landscape architecture. But in 2019, we formed sort of an EDI committee that looked really toward focusing on a holistic approach to implementing justice, equity, diversity and inclusion on our projects, our process, our people, our practice and the partners that we do collaborate with. And then from that we did a series of inquiries, feedback loops, conducted surveys, check ins with all mithunes to really figure out what's going on. And in addition to working with EDI consultants and through a series of reflection exercises, we realized that this work was happening all throughout the firm at different levels. So on people's projects as well as people's extracurriculars that they were involved in, our philosophy kind of evolved a little bit. And realizing that instead of having a EDI focused committee that really justice, equity, diversity and inclusion is a practice that's available to all Methunis where we collectively build on oppressive systems and practices furthering justice and equity. So removing that barrier that there's a select group of people that's focusing on EDI and really empowering the entire office to have really an all hands on deck approach to it.

E And then that has been continued through sponsorship, partnerships, involvement with different organizations like noma, for instance, National Organization for Minority Architects. I mentioned that we're involved with all three NOMA chapters in our respective offices. So we signed on to things such as the NOMA Call to Action, which is a pledge that focuses on creating a safe and inclusive workplace. So taking on things like that and not just focusing on that, but feeding that into the larger EDI practice that we're focusing on as a firm.

B And we also wanted to talk about sustainability because I think this is a foundational part of Muthune as a firm. So tell us about your firm's approach to climate action and how that's either influenced you or what you think the firm could inspire other firms to do in leadership in this area.

C Sure. I think sustainable design has really predated myself, Katie and Michael at Methune. It's, it's really a part of our DNA. You know Omer Mathun who started this practice, it was a big concern of his and a big passion point for his and many of the leaders here have really helped steward that throughout the growth of the firm. We've had a lot of projects early in Our development as a firm that have helped to support external achievements in sustainable design, but also have really helped to bring everybody within the firm into the conversation. And it's not something that we malign to a single person in the office to be the sustainability, you know, leader for the firm. They're going to be involved every project and everybody else is kind of doing their own work. It's just something that is part of our process and everybody participates in in various ways, partially because sustainability is such a complicated thing to engage with.

C So, you know, we've had projects like the Island Wood Environmental Learning center on Bainbridge island here in Washington state just outside of Seattle, and REI flagship store. Very early projects, I believe Katie or Marna told me. If I'm wrong here, I believe were early AA coat top 10 award recipients. Things like that were exciting products for us and have really, I think attracted a lot of people that are excited about sustainability. Like Katie mentioned was looking for a very deep green firm. It's something that is sort of a draw for us. We've participated in really early tools like build carbon neutral that has been used throughout the industry and has really evolved several times. And we're actually working on a new iteration of that as a firm right now.

C We help develop lead ND criteria Sustainable Sites Initiative. And as a firm we operate carbon neutral, I think for the past like 18 years or something like that. Like I said, it's part of every project that we work on. It has been for a long time. I think the things that are exciting about sort of the future of sustainability for us and for other firms is really coming into a place where we can start to recognize and identify partnerships that are valuable to pushing sustainability within the industry. And that can be a lot of things that can exist in energy or materials or resilience. I know Katie can talk to that quite a bit, building partnerships with outside firms. But it's challenging because we are, we're not scientists, we are not health officials.

C We are working within information that is publicly accessible to try to recognize risk to our environment, to both natural and built. And I think it's always trying to be cognizant of what are the important things to create a long lasting future for us. I think for us right now carbon has been a major, I think it feels like an immediate crisis. Okay, so yes, so carbon emissions in general and our industry has a huge impact on that is an imminent crisis and it feels very important to us right now. I think one thing that I hope the industry moves towards and I think we as a firm are really trying to engage with is also material health. That to me is as important as carbon is right now. You know, there's, there's so much that we're doing to impact our environment material health, from you know, bio accumulating chemicals to microplastics to all these things like that's happening now and it will stay with us for a very long time. And so, you know, material health for that reason I think is really important to engage with on an industry level.

C And it's really hard. Like we have only so much control over how manufacturers create materials and impact the societies in which factories exist and who's impacted by those things. It's a complicated thing that we're trying to engage with and I hope that it's something that others see value in as well.

D I'll just chip in two sentences from a firm structure level. We do have a sustainability team that a little more focused on helping our framework for sustainability get implemented on each project. But like Greg said, everybody has something to contribute throughout our global mithune team. And then Mithun has also made those commitments not only at the office and internal operations level, like our carbon policies and our net zero carbon policies, but also in having a full time building performance analyst on staff and making the commitment to do a full building LCA on every project project and really setting some benchmarks internally for ourselves, not just meeting our clients green rating standard that they choose to pursue.

A I think this is a great opportunity, Katie, to kind of transition into what we alluded to in your bio at the top of the podcast too, or at the top of the episode in innovation, research and partnership. I would love to find out a little bit more about how mithune has built out this practice. I think especially for small and medium sized firms, Methune is generally classified as a large firm. It goes from small to large really quickly in the industry. But even smaller and medium sized firms feel that there is kind of a luxury of the larger firms to have innovation and research, which I would love to get your opinion on that too. But I really think it's important. This type of work is important for the future of the industry. So we'd love to hear a little bit more about the practice or how you think maybe more individuals in the industry or more firms could get involved in the type of work that you're doing.

D Yeah, that's a great, it's a great series of questions. So I will say we're 180 employees and people can decide whether that's Small or large, depending on whose practice they're at. But a culture of curiosity has really been embedded in the firm from its beginnings. And we decided to start formalizing that in 2016 into a specific R D program. And for me personally, the stars really aligned with my professional timing at Methune. I joined the practice right as we started to formalize that. And part of my role from the beginning has been helping steward those internal R and D initiatives. And the way that we're structured is we award yearly internal grants, which are given as time to teams who have a research investigation that targets new knowledge that can shift our work in the industry.

D And I will say, at a practice our size, it's a really intentional commitment for a specific portion of our overhead. Commitment to be to research, to innovation. To date, we've invested around 12,500 hours and engaged over 100 staff across 40 of those projects. But part of what we conceptualize as under the research and innovation at Methune is also fostering relationships. So whether it's collaborating on external grants with university partners or facilitating some of our fellowship programs, targeting innovation doesn't just happen at huge firms who have large amounts of profit to dedicate internally to doing research. It can also be as an industry liaison who has very specific expertise in how projects are conceptualized, built and implemented, partnering with academic institutions that have the depth and capacity to do rigorous research and how we could be doing that work better, more sustainably, or more equitably. All of this is to say, I think as a firm, we're really invested in forward looking research and we believe that innovation and experimentation is really necessary in this increasingly complex profession. And I do believe that across scales of practice, there are different ways to engage with doing research that can fit your individual models.

B Well, I think, you know, case in point, Katie, your career is a good example of this, with your emphasis and your pathway into R and D to do this kind of work. You know, we focused the first part of this interview around the story of the firm. We really want to swing it back to each of your individual stories and areas of interest because I think we wanted you on the show because you all have been there long enough to grow with the firm. And so we want to know what that is, what Mithune has been doing. Well, what could other firms learn from what's happening and made you all be able to stay in architecture and succeed? So maybe let's start with your individual career trajectories and how Muthun has supported each of those paths.

E So I would say that Muthune, one of the really cool things about kind of my path and trajectory is that I'm super interested in equity, diversity and inclusion and how to really make that a part of everything that I do, especially within my architectural work. I would say that Mithun has been really good at investing in that and really harnessing that and pushing me to go further with it, saying like, yeah, this is something that we should be doing as an entire firm. This is something that everyone should be invested in. So let's put dollars towards that as well. And not just, you know, just talk it, let's actually put some action towards it. And so that's really kind of propelled me to want to go further and explore that in any opportunity that I possibly can. One really good example is that part of noma, which is National Organization for Minority Architects, Northwest Chapter, I was a previous board member for that and they were really supportive of that.

C And when we.

E I was actually a co creator of the Call to Action pledge, which basically focused on workplace diversity and inclusion. The thing was an early adopter of that pledge and he said, we want to support you on that and we want to make sure that that's something that we abide by as well. So just knowing that you have an organization that you work for in your corner as well, that's invested in seeing not only their success, but seeing your success and growth really has been impactful throughout my career.

C I think with sort of my trajectory. I think one of the things that I've really appreciated about mithune being here for as long as I have has been implicit trust that is given to people that are younger and supporting their interests, I think is really unique. You know, I feel like at the beginning of my career I was having. I had amazing mentors. I don't. I don't think I would be where I am without that, but I. Those people that were mentoring me were trusting me with responsibilities that I think otherwise as a young designer, I wouldn't have felt I could do. You know, and it wasn't like I was being thrown to the fire.

C It was. I was being asked to do things with support. And again, where that approachability and accessibility to your mentors becomes really important. You know, those people help me grow as quickly as I think that I could by giving me that trust and letting me sort of run with things that might have been intimidating. You know, in one example, being like when I maybe was two years or three years into practice, you know, I had a. A leader for this project, essentially Tell me, hey, I'm going to have you be responsible for this entire building on this multi building project because I want you to get that exposure. And I'm going to be here if you need anything, but was very explicit. I trust you.

C If you have any questions, come find me. And that's a project example, but that also exists in many other ways with sustainability or with some of our extracurricular activities outside of the office. Getting engaged with different communities, getting engaged with different art forms. For myself, another example of this is that I've practiced the art of making felt textiles by hand since, for the past 11 years now. It's not something I thought I could integrate into this work, but Mithune has been amazingly supportive in finding ways for me to develop that skill, but also find new ways for it to integrate into our work. I've been lucky to have some of that be part of the actual design work we do and contribute to the space we create. That's really exciting for me. And so I think in terms of our career trajectory, Mithune has always been very open about supporting your interests, but also I think, expecting people to bring their ambitions to the forefront too.

C We look for people who are excited about something to really find ways, with our help, to, to express those things and fold it into what we do.

D Yeah, I, Greg and Michael have both talked about how individual passions have actually grown into key parts of our practice. And I think allowing this muffin has allowed the space for each of us to carve out our niche and say, hey, I'm excited about this. And then also we're being challenged to say, okay, if you're excited about that, how can that impact the practice at a, at a bigger scale than you think might be possible? And so for me, you know, I'm someone who really likes to dive deep, particularly and, you know, places where the answer isn't necessarily known. And that has led to this leadership role and research and development. But it also can be Greg and his textiles being implemented in a project, but also contributing to what is the wildly most popular happy hour of the year, which where we all get to learn how to make felt textiles with Greg. So there's, I think, the different scales at which people can bring their whole selves to work, but then are also challenged to think more broadly about how we can impact the practice as individuals. And the last thing I have to say, it's so broad, but our overall mission as a firm is designed for positive change. And the folks that we hire and the folks that stick around believe deeply in that.

D And it's a lofty mission, but it's really a goal that we're all centered around, which helps us continue to thrive as a practice.

C Maybe if it's helpful to loop back into that whole felt materials thing, I think one example of where that's gone in terms of advancing the practice is that it's helped me identify this love for natural materials and again, healthy materials, and has pushed me to really engage with the subject of how to make our buildings healthier, not just for occupants, but also throughout the entire life cycle of materials, from extraction to demolition. And that's been an exciting thing for me to engage with. And again, that's something I started to pick up in college. And mithune has helped me really identify that passion and morph it into something that again, hopefully can really make a positive impact on what we do.

B So you've introduced a little bit about your individual career paths. What advice would you give to someone who's just starting out in their career as an architect and how might they better prepare themselves for success?

E I'll start out by saying that architecture is a very, very broad profession and that there isn't one particular mole of a successful or model architect. So really kind of digging deep and understanding and bringing your what success looks like for you. Are you more interested in technical things, a broader outlook, or specifically EDI related things? Kind of what gives you more the most joy in the realm of architecture? And then what areas are you most passionate about and how you would like to make that impact within the profession? And then finding mentors or people that embody those aspects and qualities and try to gravitate towards them. And then just remember to be patient and focus on where you want to go, but at the same time put those actions into practice.

B Michael, if I can follow up, I mean, I think EDI is fairly a new topic in our industry and I'm just curious if at any point was there any challenge in bringing those conversations forward or did you ever feel like, oh, maybe this isn't going to be something that's going to be well received? How did you find your way through the courage to lean into the things that are important to you and lead with that in the way your career has unfolded?

E Yeah, so I kind of. It's always challenging and really scary to approach something that is either new or that you feel like you don't want to say the wrong thing. But I always remind myself that, you know, I'm not going to be perfect. People are going to make mistakes and to give myself as much grace as possible, just knowing that if I have the right intentions and, yeah, if I have the right intentions, that's all that matters. So I would say the same for anyone else pursuing that. Just really be genuine about what you're going after.

C And, yeah, I'm going to quote Ina Garten for a second, Barefoot Contessa, if you're familiar. We feel really silly saying this, but she's this quote that I really love, and I'm probably going to butcher it, but this is how it's cemented into my brain. She said, I think in response to somebody asking her how she went from being like a White House analyst to, you know, a food network chef or whatever, her response was that she was always trying to do the very best at what she was doing in that moment, but she was always looking for distractions. I've really tried to. Well, I don't actually even sure if I've tried. I think I just. I think I just inherently have enjoyed that thought process so much that it's just become part of who I am. The reason I'm saying this is because I think it's a good thing, especially for someone young in their career, to really listen to those words and realize that, like Michael said, architecture means a lot of things.

C And I think maybe better just to talk, let's say design for a second. When you're coming out of school from any sort of design practice, you can very quickly realize that with that degree, with that experience in school, you can do a lot of different things. And so trying to look around when you get out into the world, whether that's professional practice or making connections in the industry in other ways, talk to people that are doing things that are unexpected, see how they get into that. Is there things that you have passions for and interests in that you can parlay into what we do as designers, or even sort of adjacent to what we do as designers. I just feel like I keep finding people in our industry that have done that and are just really exciting people to be around and learn from. So, you know, if you. If you are, you know, able to get out of school, join a firm, get drinks with everybody that you can, like, go get lunch with your boss, like, figure out, like, how people have moved through life and see if there's something you can learn from that. I just.

C I just think that's such a big part of growing.

B I like what you said about, you know, listening to that inner voice of that thing that you are following, what you enjoy doing that's awesome to hear you say because, you know, I think a lot of people struggle with the very linear process of our industry and so they sometimes feel like they have to fit into the profession. But I like how you phrased kind of pulling that inner voice out to guide, you know, just leaning into what you like to do. In your case, it kind of is interesting in the fact that what you like to do is something that is in high demand for our profession. You are what I've heard is a very technical architect or technically minded architect.

C Sure, yeah. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. Yeah. I think maybe one way to see it is like, I have been very lucky to be in a position where I've been a design lead, for lack of a better phrase, for numerous projects early in my career. And I have found, and I still believe this, that understanding how buildings are built and how materials come together, and this has been true of my life since school and as a child, making things that, you know, doing art with my mother, my father, it helps you understand to be a better designer, I think. And so I have been really lucky to also, you know, soon, listening to me, asking for what I would like to get experience and have been able to do or be on site quite a bit and get a lot of experience in construction administration, going through construction documents, having a lot of mentorship in technical design, you know, from, from a variety of scales has really shaped me into who I am. So, you know, in that sense, I think I feel more confident in every phase of a project than I would otherwise. I think especially for young designers, like going through construction can be so intimidating.

C Especially, you know, speaking from my experience, this small queer man who's on site working in a very patriarchal, I guess, I don't know, setting, it can be really intimidating. And I think women experience that. I think, I think a lot of people experience that. So getting comfortable in those spaces is really, I think, important as a designer, for me, at least I was going

E to say, I really appreciated what you said about getting comfortable in spaces that you find scary. That's something that I've been challenging myself and I think that has helped me move forward a little bit more. Is that things that often really freak me out or make me really scared to do. I try to force myself to be into that situation so I can get better at it versus letting that continue to be a barrier towards success. So like some examples, for instance, like public speaking, that terrifies me at times, but I still do it just to make myself get better. At it. And the same thing with going into ca, that was one of the first things that I was really scared about. But after doing it a few times, it became like second nature.

E Even though there's still points where you're a little scared, but you at least know how to move forward when you're in those situations.

B Yeah, that's a good point. And I guess I want to ask you both. You've brought up mentorship. I think that teaching architecture is such a difficult thing to do. Each person's journey is a little different. There's things to your point, Michael, that people feel comfortable with and they don't. What advice could you give to anyone who finds themselves in a role where they're trying to help someone behind them learn and grow into this field?

A Like what.

B What helped you? And like what. What tips can you pass along for others to become better mentors?

E I would say for a mentor to lead with compassion and vulnerability, it's really important. When you see people who, you know are a little bit higher than you or who are your mentor, have those moments where they are unsure at times and see how they move throughout it. I think it's sometimes we get into the kind of like, a mindset of, like, oh, I'm the mentor. Like, I can't make any mistakes. And mistakes are good. Mistakes are really, really good because it lets someone behind you know that, oh, okay, I can make a mistake, too. And here's how you went to addressing that mistake. To do better.

E I can do the same thing. Like, no one's perfect. And I think as soon as we distill that idea or remove that idea, that perfection is a necessity to succeed, the better we will be off. Yeah.

C I think just to add to that, it's so true, this idea of perfection. I think especially when you're younger and you have mentors, I think it's hard not to look up to somebody and have that feeling like, oh, that person. They're done. They've learned everything. That's who I'm going to be. Actually, we have a mentorship program that we've formalized. And one of the things I really like about it is that there's sort of these, like, family trees now of mentors where, you know, I am formerly a mentor for somebody who, you know, has chosen to be mentored by me. I have somebody that I've chosen to mentor above me.

C You know, there is overlap in those conversations all the time. And it's also just. It's not a vertical thing. It is also horizontal. Like There are people, I mean, I go to Michael and Katie about things all the time where I'm like, hey, I don't know what to do with this. What would you do? You know, it's peer mentorship, I think, is as important as mentorship in a vertical sense. And it also helps empower each other. Like, you know, I talk a lot, or at least over this conversation, I've talked a lot about the people here.

C And I think, you know, having worked at a couple of firms in my time, I have experienced the opposite of that several times. Where it is a, you work in a library, if you, if it's cutthroat, people don't want to help you. I remember when I came here, it was like, oh my God. These people are like, they are empowering each other and they are like, excited to, to take advantage of the expertise that we, that we all bring to the table. And it's like, I just, I don't, I can't imagine going out of that again. You know, that's again, part of why I stay here. But it's, it's such an important thing to build each other up within a firm and again, outside of it too. So I just rambled a ton.

C But I think everything I said is important.

E I would also add, sorry, one last thing to that is that mentorship is a two way street. So it's not just about like the mentor mentoring the mentee. The mentee also oftentimes mentor the mentor,

C if that makes sense.

E But yeah, so, like, there's been some examples where I've helped my own mentor out on certain things. And that talking about feeling really, really empowered, that's like, wow, like, that's a

C really, really good thing.

E So, yeah, I just wanted to add that little tidbit in there that it is a two way street. It's never just like one direction or one way, I guess.

C One last thought for this. Sorry, Janine. I think when it comes to mentorship, I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but there's two things that typically happen to help somebody grow. You are either thrown to the fire and you are left to deal with it yourself, or you are trusted and supported. Those things can look very similar. And really the only difference being whether or not you have somebody to talk to who can help you. I can't tell you how many friends I've had from college that have graduated and gone into our industry that have just been driven away by superiors that expect you just to know everything immediately. And if you fail, then there are consequences.

C You know, and it's. It's really hard to see that. So, you know, if you think about it, you can function in both ways as a firm. You can make those things, both things work. We see that in industry all the time. But if you want someone to grow and you want someone to stay, you want them to feel comfortable, you want them to feel like they can learn and they can teach you something, right? So it's all about how we treat each other. And again, going back to sort of what Michael has. Has been talking about, it's.

C It's such an important part of our industry that I think we love to sometimes ignore. Maybe.

B No, I love everything you just said. I mean, the reason that Evelyn and I started this podcast is just to talk more about those things that haven't been addressed that have been considered norms in our industry for so long that go unspoken. And, you know, I appreciate you bringing some of these barriers and challenges forward because I think you're right. Like, to me, culture and people and mentorship, these are the things that are going to heal and help our profession grow and transform. And so I'm so appreciative for, you know, how Muthoon is leading in this space. And then maybe, hopefully somebody out there is listening and hear something in this conversation they could take to their firm that could help them amplify and expand their own firm culture.

A It's been just so great having you on. And I think, you know, we purposely, when we reached out to you, Mithun, as the Firm of the Year winner, we wanted to hear from the next generation of leaders. I think so much of what is often celebrated is the current generation of leaders. So it's been really great to hear your perspectives, especially from individuals who have had such a long tenure at the practice. And I think it speaks to the type of talent that Methuen is attracting and retaining as well. So I would love to know from each of you, kind of looking ahead to the future of architecture, what are your hopes for the profession? And then more broadly, how do you see Mithune potentially contributing or being a part of those goals?

D My hopes for the profession, I think, are that folks can find their role in positively impacting some of our most wicked problems. Whether it's social inequity, climate change, there's some really hairy issues at play that the built environment has a large role, for better or for worse in. And I think in that we. It's my hope for the firm, and for ideally, other firms, too, to just really continue to embrace the desire to Constantly evolve. We need to continue to innovate on our ways that we do the work. We need to continually innovate, innovate on design itself. And so what I'm most excited about is for the firm to continually reframe who we are, how we're representing the communities that we serve, how we do co design, and then how we can be the most deeply sustainable and resilient practice. So I am super thankful to have this really fun conversation with you all today and always, always happy to nerd out about resources, research and design.

D And thanks for the opportunity to be here.

E I would like to see our industry invest more in amplifying equity and inclusion as a profession. So many of the complex issues and challenges that we face as a collective relate to equity. There's anything from representation in our profession to the environmental challenges that we have, to the community impact and reducing harm. So many of that ties back into equity. So we have to ask ourselves in any process, who has a seat at the table, what voices are actually being heard and really make sure that we reflect and dig deep and understand that from a Muthun standpoint, that contribution I could see is really us taking and exemplifying that change that we would like to see within our profession, from looking inward to looking outward to impact that we're making on the built environment. While we're not perfect by a long shot, this is happening in so many different ways. And I think it's just giving ourselves a little grace as we move forward and realize that we're going to make mistakes, it's not going to be perfect, but we really, really have to keep working at it and just try to do the best that we can. So thank you for having me today.

C I think I would absolutely echo some of the beautiful things that Katie and Michael said. I think maybe to build a little bit more on Michael's statements. I think we work really hard, right? Architects, interior designers, landscape architects, our whole profession works really hard. And sometimes it can be easy to lose ourselves and see what's happening around us. And I think it's really important to remember that. Going back to that idea of culture that you brought up, I can't remember if it's Evelyn or Junedin, but we learn our culture from those who lead us and mentor us. And especially I think at our point in our career, Katie, myself and Michael, I'm coming to a realization that I am starting to impact people and I am starting to mentor people and maybe have been for a long time. And so remembering how we treat each other, how we support each other as an industry, not just internally, but externally as well.

C Because we could probably go off on a much bigger tangent about the places we pin ourselves into as an industry. I think it's just good to remember that we need to treat ourselves well and we need to remember how to support each other. And again, very much so in line with what Michael was just talking about as well. But and of course, you know, a little bit off topic now, but I do have a lot of passion for improvements on our material health as an industry and trying to engage with that. So I do hope that that is also a big part of our future. And I know many other firms are trying to engage with that as well. So, you know, I look forward to expanding on that in the future. So thank you both.

C I really appreciate being here. This has been really fun and exciting to be part of. So thank you.

B Hi Disruptors. If you like the content from today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practiceofarchitecture.com podcast.

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