Architecture, And: Growing a Tech Start-up out of an Architecture Firm

A I'm Evelyn Lee. And I'm Janine Chastain. We're collaborating on curated conversations to explore how the industry of architecture is changing.

B Together, we'll find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. Welcome to Practice Disrupted. Hello, listeners. Hello, Janine.

C Hi, Evelyn. Hi, disruptors.

B So on this episode, we're talking about entrepreneurship in tech and beyond with our guest, Zach Sofflin, AIA, the founder and CEO of Lair.

C His passion for improving the building life cycle drives the vision and energy behind Lair. As a licensed architect with a decade of experience, Zach Leads all areas of company operations and product innovation for Lair, and that's what we're gonna be talking about today, his transition from architecture to launching a business and scaling it.

B We're bringing him on Practice Disrupted to talk about, as Janine said, his journey from architect to CEO, His hopes for the future of practice and offer advice to others who may be interested in following the same steps as him as an entrepreneur. So, Zach, we are so excited to have you on our show. Thank you for joining us today.

D Yeah. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

B So we've given a little bit of a bio intro for you as our guests, but is there anything that we didn't touch on or any fun fact that you would like to share with our audience.

D Oh, boy. My wife and I are hobby farmers. We own a small acreage outside of Lincoln, actually, and we've We love anything to do with being outside, big gardens. We got goats and chickens and all that fun stuff, so that's probably probably something not many people know.

C So I think a big part of your story is this transition from architecture into becoming an entrepreneur, but also, like, trying to solve A core challenge that you identified probably working as an architect in practice. Tell us about that initial story of recognizing that you were interested in either addressing this problem or maybe You thought you wanted to be an entrepreneur. I don't know which one came first.

D Yeah. Good good question. So back in 2012, I graduated from the College of architecture. The the year prior, I had done my thesis on data driven design. So it's really, really dug deep into programming and Building kind of custom tools that could help drive, the actual programming and design of of a space or of a building. And so I think, like, that 1st kind of an it initially really interested me in, I guess, software and was kind of my first experience in software. And then After school, I end up I end up going to a firm called BVH Architecture, and I basically practiced architecture. I I think I I think I was licensed, like, maybe a a year or 2 after that.

D So kind of did the the architect thing, worked on lots of different projects, Drafting and, coordinating and all of the above. But what I found what I found, like, as kind of, like, a common thread through all of those projects is that, Generally, I was I was really interested in, like, identifying unique problems that we were struggling with on those projects and then kind of building one off solutions, Whatever that happened to be. You know, if it was in Grasshopper or Dynamo or a custom, script of some kind, I was always, like, messing around, with with that stuff. So fast forward a a couple years, I mean, I our project team did the Interior renovation of the Nebraska state capital. And as part of that project, we had to do a really large condition assessment. Basically gather all of the existing data for the building so that we could go in and, actually design our solution. And so the the project team kind of approached me and and ask, like, okay. How do we you know, we're getting this is a 10 year project.

D We're going to be working exclusively in Revit, We have to gather all this field data and somehow connect it to our designs. How do we do this without a clipboard and digital camera? And I I went looking for a solution, and I I couldn't find anything, that would that would help kind of sync up this real world data that we needed, to design and our design tools. And so I ended up over the weekends, building a a, like, A really, really pieced together prototype of an app that would allow us to capture photos and field data in the field on a mobile device, and It would connect it back to objects within our model. And so the team was brave enough basically to give it a shot And give it a shot using that, and we, began testing it with several of the survey teams, and it worked really well. Essentially, what it did is, you know, it allowed us to capture field date on the app, but then when we were back in Revit, like, working in Revit, you were able to click on a room or a door or a window and see all of the associated photos or field data that we had attached to it from the mobile device. That's basically what it was doing. And it it worked really well. At the time, like, I had no intent on, like, doing anything with it.

D We were just building a solution for this project. And I guess that's that's kind of where that's kind of where things started.

B I wanted to go back to I mean, you you mentioned kind of architects are used to building a lot of these one off tools. And you kind of even just ended your story with, like, We built this tool for the project, and and that was it. So where did it go from we built this tool for our projects to let's make this a product that we then license and build and sell to the rest of the AEC industry.

D Yeah. Great question. So, yeah, that's definitely something that like, a a trend or a a theme that that I picked up on, Even during my time is before, working on the capital, which is that, like, generally, we're all doing that. Like, we're we're having to find one off solutions for project problems. And so for the capital in particular, like I said, I didn't really see this as anything different than just designing a solution for the capital. But I think for me when I started to realize that, like, there was a bigger opportunity here was when I can actually point to the specific Moment. I was I was talking to the project architect. I had a kind of hard coat or the the project manager of the project.

D I basically, like, kind of hard coded all these questions that that we were asking or searching for for each room in the capital, and there was, like, 57 different data points or survey questions. And I was on my, like, I don't know, 10th, 20th time of, like, revising this list of questions because of, You know, changes that people had requested or asked for. And so what I what I realized is what if I just created The framework where users could create their own questions and, types of fields or properties and allow them to kind of define this list and edit this list instead of me having to kind of hard code all these questions. And when we made that change, it kinda clicked for me that, like, you know, this is actually a great Way to do condition assessments for anyone who's who's who's needing to do a workflow like this. So I I think, like, in that moment is kind of, I think, where where things Clicked for me where I realized this could be this could be something a little bit bigger.

B So I don't know the entire story of BVH and Lair, but, I mean, this is something that was was it then incubated in BVH, or how did I'm assuming, you know, BVH was this great kind of Way to prototype this product. What what's been that relationship between BVH and Lair? And, you know, when did you actually spin it off? You know, set up the corporation and and made it stand on its own.

D So for for those who don't know, like, they are a midsize Architecture firm in the Midwest. Never done something like this before. You know, we don't have not did not have experience incubating a start up. So, like, we we kinda went into this, you know, blind a little bit. So they were they were brave enough to kind of take on this This challenge and like you said, though, this it was a great opportunity to kind of incubate this product in a way that is super close to Our ideal customer, our our ideal users. And so that was a really positive experience. And I think it was it was a really A a way to kinda fast track product market fit in a way that, like, other tools, I don't think have that luxury. So back in October, we saw We saw a great relationship with BVH.

D They still are great partners of ours. However, back in October of 2021, We had launched the product about a year prior. Things were were growing. And so at that stage, we we actually spun out of DBH And have kinda been on our own ever since. So they were they were great partners in this, though.

B I mean, I'd be interested. Like, how did those conversations evolve, though, because you weren't necessarily in leadership at the time that you were making this jump. And for you to spend more time on the product means that either They're paying for your overhead time or the product is at a point where they're bringing in some money to support some of your salary. What was that evolution And the nature of your changing role from this go to person building out these one off tools to the CEO while you're negotiating with the leadership of BVH about or how billable you are or aren't right going forward on on projects, really.

D It was super messy just in the in the way that we in the way that we executed it. And that, like, like like you said, like, most firms most firms, The business model is set up on billable hours, so everything is about maximizing billable hours of the professionals in your employees. So That was that was something that I think initially, it kind of started with, okay, we wanna pursue this, but you're also working on 3 projects. So, You know, we'll we'll kind of we'll allow you to do you know, spend 20% of your time on developing this product, but The rest of your time is project based work. And so, like, we tried that for a little bit. It it didn't work great, You know, in in kind of splitting up that that time, I think, like, that was more, like, idealistic in the way that we could we could execute on that. So, eventually, we ended up We ended up saying, okay. We're gonna go full in on this.

D We're going to, launch this product in I mean, I I forget what it was. I think it was about 5 or 6 months 5 or 6 month period. And take it away. Have at it. Go for it. And so at at that stage, I was just purely overhead for for them, and they definitely took a risk in, in doing that.

B Then was it an equity play for them? Like, is there an equity share in the company for them in order to help you build and to allow you to, like, operate on overhead.

D Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So there's there's yeah. They they have a minority equity stake in the company. And, Yeah. I mean, it was, like, having those conversations, we talked with we talked with, legal professionals to kind of identify, like, what would be in those scenarios. So, like, outside help was definitely important in just giving perspective, but, yes, it was.

C So it sounds like you've been out fully on your own for 2 years running Lair. Is that correct?

D Yep. Yeah. And the year before that, like, we were fairly independent, but still had not spun out of BDH. But, October 2021 is when we really Spun out formally out of the company.

C Yeah. And that's a tough period because that means that that was during pandemic days, so you were Probably doing this in the complexity of that. I guess I'm curious. Did you ever imagine yourself becoming an entrepreneur Or launching a tech company, was that ever something you had considered?

D No. No. Not really. I think what I've always been interested in is building things that Didn't exist before. And so I think, like, that's initially what drove me to architecture, like, drew me to architecture in general, but I think software really opened up, like, a whole new world of possibility as far as, like, removing the constraints of, You know, value engineering and project deadlines and, whatnot. So, like, I think I think that's what kind of drew me into entrepreneurship.

C I think what's interesting about your story is I've seen a lot of people, especially in the Technology space computational design working inside of firms. They're really passionate about these opportunities to to improve processes and emerging technology in practice because it's it's all still so new to how we build our models and do our drawings, and you've found a successful path from making that jump where you were Creating a solution on a project that was specific, but then transitioning it out into the marketplace. And so there I think a lot of There's probably a lot of folks in firms that share that interest, but wouldn't know how to make that Come to fruition. So I think it's a really good success story about not only taking a architecture training and translating that into this path, but also successfully working with a firm and figuring out how to partner in a way that leads you into a product that you can actually stand alone as a independent company.

D Yeah. Absolutely. And I think, like, I think That that whole journey was 1 again, like, I I don't think we would we do it differently? Had we do we if we had the knowledge that we have today, definitely. Like, I think both BVH would probably pursue it differently as would I. But I think understanding that both any parties need to have Some type of skin in the game for these things to be successful is, like, an an important component of building something like this.

C I guess the follow-up I have is really twofold. I'm curious what you've learned about becoming a CEO in this new role, like the things that you've had to learn to expand your leadership in that area, but also I'm curious what You've translated from your architectural training and education into being able to lead in this capacity.

D Yeah. Good good question. So I think, like, most of my experience as CEO has been on the job training for the most part. So, like, I did a ton of reading, especially at the beginning of this, but continue to consume books on the topic because there there's a lot that I don't know, and there's a lot that I'm still learning. I think, like, one of the most valuable things I've learned, though, as CEO and as we still put that to use every single day is that Listening to your customers when you're building a product is super important. And I know that that sounds like a, like, super tried answer, but, like, That is what we continually go back to as, like, one of the easiest ways to kind of fast track our product development, everything. Because if we if we truly understand, like, what problems our customers are dealing with, it's it's only then when we can act actually design an adequate solution. So I think that's that's like like I said, there's probably a 1000000 more lessons that we're going to learn along the way, but that's definitely one of them.

D And I think you asked How my experience as an architect translated? I I would say it's like some of the critical thinking and skills that I learned in architecture have Helped immensely in building this business. I think, like, particularly around, like, designing product and Experience, like user experience. The the skills I learned as an architect in in architecture school, I think, helped a ton. I've always been someone who's who's really interested in high design, great experience, and so that's that's always been of a high value to me. And so I think, like, those Those skills have definitely translated and given us an opportunity to kind of provide provide something different than you know, a different a different software experience than what architects might be used to Working with

B I'd love to hear a little bit more about how Lair has evolved a little bit over time as well, maybe as a product. So you, Obviously, you've talked about listening to your customers. I think, you know, we've brought Monograph's CEO Robert on the show before. And Monograph Very much was like a website design company template company before it was ever a project management software. So it doesn't look like Lair has seen As dramatic as a shift as monograph, for instance, but what type of shifts have you had to make in your product along the way? And, you know, is there anything else you can share about where it is now?

D Yeah. Good question. So one of the one of the kind of first pivots that I think we experienced was well, Well, I I kind of talked about the first one when I was it's, like, working with the project manager and kind of the realization that, like, she could create her own form items instead of me having hard code these these fields, into the app. But I think where we when we decided to actually launch the product, essentially, we were launching a condition assessment tool. That's what we were building, and that's what we were launching. What we realized Really soon after that is that, like, the requirements of actually building a great condition assessments tool is that the tool has to be incredibly flexible because every project and every company is gathering different information, different data. It needs to do different things with it. And so those are kind of Core pieces of our of our product that have always existed, but what we realized as we dove into the market that there's actually a ton of applications for this type of product in the market today.

D So We kinda started as a condition assessments tool. This kind of led us into adjacent workflows like building surveys, And then that led us into other workflows as well, like performing room data sheets that are connected to Revit, fixtures, furniture, and equipment workflows, to manage product data and create spec sheets. It kind of continued to evolve. And what we realized quickly is we were basically A a way to operationalize building data. We were a workflow platform where you can build your workflows on top of your building data and share them amongst your team. So I'd say that's probably, like, that's probably the the early pivot that we had Early on.

B So that was a early pivot. Has it taken any more pivot since? And I feel like those type of pivots are They're learned actions by an entrepreneur, but not but something that we're in an architecture where realm, we're kind of risk averse to, If that makes sense. So where are you going? And is there anything that you had to unlearn about being an architect to ultimately make you a better entrepreneur in this space.

D I don't know if there was anything that I had to unlearn being an architect, but I would say that, like, I've always tended to be, well, I guess, unafraid of of taking risks. So, like, I would say, like, my skills as an architect have only benefited me kind of in this space. So, no, this is this is really where we've landed and where we're continuing to kind of niche down on. And that is essentially, We are a platform to operationalize building data. So if you think about all of the players in the space who are involved, who need access and not only access, but to take some type of action on the data that we generate for buildings. The market is huge. So, like, while we've kind of focused on the build side of buildings, you know, with architects and engineers and contractors, We see tremendous opportunity in the operations and maintenance space as well. So not only are we are we there to to Help users build tools on the on the design side of projects, but we also and we we have customers who are using it this way as well, are on the operations and maintenance side of buildings where they're wanting they're needing to utilize the data that was created in Revit or CAD or, you know, just PDF drawings and build their workflows on top of it.

D So that's really been our focus for the last couple years, and that's Can that's kinda squarely where our focus is still positioned.

B So we've also talked to to Tech App 2. You know? And the interesting thing about tech is that they have found that developers, for instance, are a lot more interested in their software platform than architects For better or for worse. Who have you seen as your primary user then? And as you've kind of expanded the operational side, Who do you think is ultimately going to to drive your product? Is it gonna be is it gonna be the owners that are hopeful that the architects are utilizing them to help us on the operational side, saying architects, you need to use this product, or is it the architects pushing, saying, like, this is really good in terms Our project management and workflow, I guess, the best of all worlds for you, is it is it a combination of a lot of different market sectors, which also makes marketing, I think that much harder in the end for you guys.

D Yeah. Absolutely. So it definitely definitely makes it harder when you don't have a narrow focus. And so for us, like, we have narrowly focused on design as our entry point into what we call the building life cycle, Mainly because that is the stage when things are actually being digitized. So that's kind of our first primary opportunity. So that's that's really where we focus and that's where most of our marketing focused is on the design side of projects. However, like, when teams get to the end of a project, They have now linked, you know, their Revit models, their CAD drawings. They've attached photos.

D They've attached meeting minutes, notes, all of this great information to this platform that's accessible on any device. And one of the common troubles On the operation side of projects or the maintenance side of projects is the inability to access

B Is that huge binder that The building owner gets at the end of the project. Yes.

D So project hand off is really where we see tremendous opportunity, is the ability to hand off projects really well. And I think, like, for us, there's a ton of value for the owner in that. But, like, one thing that I don't think is thought about near enough In architecture is the customer experience and how we're delivering a product, which is a building. And so we see a way to really improve the Hand off of that information to the owner and thereby improve the customer experience for that owner. Because ultimately, like, you want more work from from that from that owner, from that entity. So, we see we see a tremendous opportunity in that hand off, process as well.

C I wanted to ask about the adoption of the platform by your clients because I I'm imagining, Like, I understand from using Revit how data gets buried, and there's, like, all this really important data that goes into the Revit model that When you hand off completed project or flat PDFs to a client, like, are void of all of that rich data. So I can understand that relationship of trying to manage and extract data, But I think that there's other ways that your clients are using this too, and I was hoping you could give us a couple of examples of the application and and how they're, You said they're linking these different parts of their project together.

D Yeah. Good good question. So on the design side of projects, I think, like, Some of the some of the ways that our customers are using the tool today is for well, I'll just kind of name off the litany of of of ways. One of the major ways our customers using it is for equipment, fixtures, furniture, basically managing all of that Product data and connecting it. Basically, they're using Revit as a source for quantities and locations of equipment or furniture or fixtures, and they're using Lair as a way to document all the details about that product. So there's kind of 2 parts Two parts to that, but Lair is enabling the connection, between the 2. We have teams that are using it, for just straight up project management where you'd otherwise be using a task app, You know, or a spreadsheet to track project tasks. In layer, you can create tasks that are attached to actual op actual objects or coordinates in in your building, and you can see those tasks directly in Revit as you click on items.

D We have teams that are connecting survey data and viewing it back in their model. Then on the operations side of projects, like, we have well, and I should say too, on the project delivery side, we have customers that are using this for All the CA related workflows. So building out punch list, field reports and observation, site observation, Even tracking RFIs. Our customers are building all kinds of things in this tool. So on the operations and maintenance side, some of our are building and using Lair for tracking things like work orders, asset management, work requests, compliance inspections, the list Kinda goes on and on.

C So you don't have to necessarily be using Revit to use Lair.

D No. What's great so what we do, like, we we consider Revit as a data source that integrates into Lair. We have other data sources as well. So you can use CAD as a base for your building. You can use just straight up PDF drawings. We have customers that Scan old blueprint drawings to use as a base for their information. So while while I think 60 to 70% of our customers use Revit, There's a whole host of them that don't.

C And I wanna talk about the team that you're building to support all this. Because Right before we hit record, we were talking about the growth of your company, which in 2 years has been pretty substantial. So you said you're about at 17 different people that are working on your team. I won't say employees because you have different different roles and functions on the team. Tell us about How that growth has happened over 2 years?

D So first of all, we have, yeah, we have about 9 full time employees and a total of about 17 employees that we work with. We work with, contract employees that are part time and, whatnot as well. So Our team is at about 17. And I would say, like, growth has well, our our our hiring has really just been a factor of Customer growth. So we've taken a conservative approach to hiring, but as we continue to scale, those those needs increase. So and say, like, You know, we have we have staff members responsible for sales, marketing. We focus really heavily on customer experience. So we have Team members who are who are heading up, customer success and customer, support.

D And then we have all of our dev team is in house, so They're all local sitting in our office in LinkedIn. So

C And on the development side, I guess I'm kinda curious, like, how Do you decide what to prioritize in hiring for a technology solution that's It's really specific to a highly technical field. Is it important that you hire people who are able to code? Do you have to hire people that are knowledgeable about architecture, or are you able to find the magical people that have both those skills?

D Yeah. So the way that the way that it works to date and, you know, this this could change as we continue to grow, but I have I've kind of headed up all products, road map and development, and our dev team is the one implementing those those features. And so what we've looked for in developers is are are essentially Cross functional team members who have a wide breadth of experience, but not necessarily experience in, I guess, buildings or architecture. And, so, generally, when I'm designing features and designing road map items, I'm kind of Tailoring that experience and then our, development team along with our, development development manager who kind of takes those road map items and then breaks them down into individual work items is is kinda taking it from there. So and then we every feature we build, we're we're doing Design reviews and, whatnot to make sure that what we're shipping is is what was planned initially.

B Piggybacking off of Janine's question, I think, you know, Nebraska is an interesting place to be. It's far from Silicon Valley, and I think, you know, a lot even why Stewart Butterfield moved From Vancouver to Silicon Valley was for the town in California. So you mentioned that a lot of your dev team is actually in house and in person local to you. So so what's it been like finding the right software talent there too?

D Great great question. So, Actually, Nebraska Nebraska and Lincoln in particular and and Omaha for that matter, both have great tech scenes. There's an emerging talent pool here that I don't think was anywhere close to this 10 years ago or 5 years ago. And so it's it's been really cool to see that evolve. Like I said, we're we're in Lincoln. I'm based in Lincoln. But, as far as, like, as far as developer talent goes, we have some great pools, to pull From the Rakes School, College of Engineering at UNL is pumps out great talent. And I think 2 of our current developers right now have come straight out of that program.

D So it's definitely evolving, but, like, there's there's a great text scene here.

C What I'd really like to know is about your perspective on The future of practice because you are dipping into these unique perspectives on technology, computational design, The more nuanced, I think, areas of practice that have emerged because of the demand and the need from us to Create tools that actually support producing the work. So I'm curious from your perspective, where do you think All of this is heading. What is your hope as someone who's leading a practice in the tech space for architects and engineers?

D Good question. So I think the greatest challenge that we have to overcome, like, as architects in particular, is overcoming the we've always done it this way mentality. I think the next 10 years is gonna bring some pretty massive change to not just architecture, but the, like, the way we deliver buildings. Not sure if, you or your listeners are familiar with the McKinsey report on the next normal in construction, but We really dug into that and and kind of dug through that. And one of the things that it really talks about is, like, the value shift between pools or parties in the delivery of a building. And so and there's some pretty major shifts particularly to, like, off-site construction firms. But I think, like, architects are willing to open themselves up to maybe new ways of working and Hold the, the way it's always been done, loosely. I think have great opportunity in the future.

D But I think, like, overcoming That we've we've always done it this way mentality is probably one of the biggest challenges that we as an industry kinda have to face.

C I guess this is kind of a curiosity of mine. I just would be interested to get your perspective, but, you know, as someone who practiced and was excited about the technology and the tools that were available when you were working in an office. Was it hard to lead Architects who didn't have that exposure to those tools when they were coming up through their careers through that process, and also, I guess I'm wanting to know, like, these tools emerged to help enhance practice, but they're by no means built out at the capacity and the potential for the need of what they could do, which is why you're introducing this product on the market. So how much more do you think that technology is gonna grow behind Our ability to deliver buildings to both design and imagine how we bring them to life through these different iterations of what technology can be.

D I I think I think I understand what you're what you're getting at. Like, I I think I think architecture in general and, again, zooming out a little bit, I don't think this is just an architecture problem. The the way that we deliver buildings in general is still, like, fairly antiquated and and, I guess, Disparate in how we solve the problem of delivering a new building. There's lots of reasons for that. But, yeah, I I do think that technology is gonna be a pretty major driver in Change in the industry over the next 10 years, mainly because, like, we we we have a lot of great tools, but I don't think we have, like, deep Processes or have, like, as an industry kind of standardized on a particular process. I mean, some of the largest Players in the software space are pretty closed off to interoperability and the the idea of working with, software outside of of of their walls. So, like, I think, like, those are some of the problems that we need to solve in order to make leaps forward as an industry in general. If you look at, like, The developer community and the way that they've kind of standardized on Git and other protocols, I think we've I think we just have some work to do before we Kind of arrive there, but I think most of it's relate like, most of the most of it is related to process, like how we actually go through the process of delivering a building.

C Yeah. I feel like when people go into the software, they're looking for like, the tools can do The work, but expediting things in a way that allows for clear communication and efficiency, that's where I often hear people complaining. So that makes a lot of sense how you answer that to me.

D There there's a lot tied up in just the, like, legality between parties. Like, I I think, like, that's that's a major driver and, like, disconnection as well. We're very nervous and for good reason That we're gonna expose ourself to some, you know, some type of liability on a on a project. And so usually, that that closes off not only communication, but also data transfer for between parties. So, like, I think, like, new ways of delivering like, just new new methods of delivering projects are Important. And I guess that goes back to process, as well. But I think I think that's a a major hurdle to overcome.

B A part of me, like, wants to go down this AI rabbit hole, but I think I'll keep it surface level. But I see Lair as, like, a really great mechanism to begin to create Order out of the dysfunction of data and typically in architecture firms, and I feel like that is For me, that's gonna be one of the biggest struggles of having of architecture firms actually being able to apply generative AI internally is because of the lack of structure of all of their data of their existing products. Right?

D Absolutely. So I think, like, what's interesting what's interesting with our product too. And I think where we're headed is we see a ton of opportunity where, like, essentially, we now have customers who have connected All of these seemingly disparate sources of building data to our platform where we have organized it. But the Ability of artificial intelligence to take and and, make sense of seemingly, like, complicated or disparate Data, I think, is a huge opportunity, and that's definitely top of mind for us, I'll say.

B We have a lot of young professionals that listen to the podcast that are doing a lot of things with Grasshopper and building out a lot of products similar back to all All the way bringing this back to the the one off per per project at the top of the conversation. What do you have as advice for those individuals who may be interested in or who may have stumbled upon something that has a greater opportunity and how to potentially pursue that, the next steps.

D Yeah. I think, like, I don't think a product is always the answer by any means. It definitely was, like, kinda like The last thing on my mind when we were working on the capital solution. But, like, if you've identified a problem, I think the very next thing to think about Is who is your potential target audience and how big is that potential audience? Because you could be solving a very real problem, But that very real problem might only exist to, you know, 10, 20 other people, Maybe more than that, but I think, like, that's probably the very next thing to think about when, like, evaluating if you're like, you're going to build a, a product. Because sometimes, like, that is a product isn't the solution. It's it's sometimes just a process change or, yeah, building building the solution, another tool. But I think, like, if you've identified a problem and you've identified a potential audience that's that's quite large, I think, like, The next step is kind of validating your idea, testing it, and getting feedback. And, usually, like, it's best to do that, like, as early as possible.

D So, like, it doesn't have to be a pretty thing or even, like, fully fleshed out idea. Like, the quicker you can get feedback in validating your idea, the better.

C I think that's really good advice, Zach, and I I've definitely seen different people attempt to do this, and I think It's good to clarify what the market capture could be for actually making the jump from I'm employed and I have a job and I've solved a solution versus I'm gonna go out on my own and give up my salary and try to grow this. I guess on the flip side, I wanna talk about, for those who are listening to this episode, wanting to learn more about your product and maybe apply it to their own projects or team operations. Where can they go to learn more about Your product and what support does your team have for them in terms of learning more about it?

D Yeah. Great great questions. They can go to our website at layer.team, or you can find us on LinkedIn too. We're quite active on LinkedIn. And, usually, like, the 1st step that we take with, anyone who's interested in kind of revolutionizing the way that they Deliver buildings is we'll do a demo with your team where we'll talk about, like, what unique challenges you might be struggling with. And then we'll We'll not only kinda go through a demo of the product, but, again, kind of talk about how specifically the product could solve some of your biggest pain points in how you, in how you deliver projects. I mean, I kind of I kind of mentioned this in in earlier in the interview, but, like, our focus on customers and Their experience is always top of mind for us. So with Lair in particular, you don't you aren't just buying a software.

D We we're here to support you as you go. You're you're assigned a a customer success rep who makes sure that you've Been able to implement the product and its best practices, and then our team, is always there to support you. We our our response time on support tickets are A minute or 2. So we're always we're always super responsive, and you're always talking to someone who has technical experience on the product. So, yeah, we're we're excited to Bring more people on this platform.

C I do wanna give your team a shout out on LinkedIn. I've definitely noticed you've had some really cool demos and marketing that's demonstrated actual use of Lair, and so I think that's been a success. I guess to close out this episode, is there any call to action that you wanna leave our audience with? The The disruptors that tune in to listen to this show or people who are trying to make a difference in architecture.

D I I mean, if you're listening to this show, I think, like, the mentality of we've always done it this way probably is not top of mind for you, but you may be working with people Where that is that is definitely top of mind for them. And so I think, like, for us, what has been successful is usually demonstrating tangible value to change, change, and not just change for change sake. And so we can definitely help you identify ways that not only our software, but Other innovations can lead to tangible value for the leaders that you work with.

C Hi, disruptors. If you like the content from today's show. You can find all of our past episodes over on practice of architecture.com/podcast.

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B Thank you for joining us on practice Disrupted, a podcast by the practice of architecture. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.