The Future of Tech within AEC

A Welcome to Practice Disrupted, a podcast where we find ways to create new solutions to current challenges while elevating the value of architects. I'm your host, Evelyn Lee, an architect who spans tech as an angel investor, start up advisor, and founder of Practice of Architecture. Whether you're a seasoned architect or just starting in the field, this podcast is your gateway to think differently about the role architects play within our global community. Hello, disruptors. Welcome to this week's episode of Practice Disrupted. I often talk about the need for architects to listen to those outside the profession as they may profoundly affect the architecture industry, including how we do our work. Today's guest, Dave Lamont, ran Revit for 5 years as a CEO before it was sold to Autodesk and has gone on to consult with early stage venture backed start up companies. Dave has over 3 decades of experience scaling software companies across industries, having held 5 CEO roles and 10 board member positions.

A He has also held numerous leadership roles at some of the world's most successful b to b or business and business software companies. He currently serves as executive chairman of AS Lab, where I also serve as an industry adviser, and we'll dig a little into that. But, Dave, thank you so much for finding time in your busy schedule to join us today, and welcome to the show.

B Evelyn, it's great to be here and good to see you.

A Yes. Good to see you again. So, Dave, we often open each episode by asking a little bit of an icebreaker. Is there anything not in your formal bio that might be fun to share with our listeners today?

B Well, one of my passions is photography and I'm actually sort of a semi professional photographer. I call myself a 3rd wind photography. So you can find me at 5:30 in the morning taking pictures of sunrises or going to the botanical gardens to take pictures of beautiful water lilies or chasing birds around. So I think it's sort of my love of color and light and texture, and I think it's a side of me that loves architecture, quite frankly, that's, you know, keeps kind of bringing me back to to that world as well, but, probably people don't know that about me, I guess.

A No. And I honestly don't know if it's anything that actually shows up in your LinkedIn profile. So nothing that I would have guessed. This is new news for me. Dave, the the interesting thing is that you've kind of landed yourself in the AEC space, but let's back up a little bit. And you even started so long ago when we were talking earlier to mention one of your first jobs. I don't know if you wanna go back that far, but can you walk us through your your career journey both leading up to Revit and even how you found yourself there?

B Yeah. I'd be happy to. I did not go way back to the early eighties, and I hate to date myself, but I was probably one of the first CAD computer aided design salespeople in the US focused around mechanical engineering products, but also one of the first computer aided design systems for architecture. And so got to meet a number of famous architects, you know, 35 years ago. So that was pretty interesting. But I, you know, I progressed to, you know, into from sales into general management and running companies. And I have run 5 different startup companies, you can call me a serial startup CEO, I guess. I ran a company called Concentra, which was the first company I ran that I actually took public.

B And, we sold the company to Oracle Oracle. It was an engineered engineered to build sales configurator, actually, for building product manufacturers. And, I spent a year at Oracle after the year of hard labor at Oracle. Well, I'll leave out what I did next, actually. But I did run another startup called AppIQ, which is storage management software that wound up being acquired by Hewlett Packard. I then ran a foreign currency automated foreign currency trading company called Currency. Clever name. And we sold that to a Wanda, which is a Canadian foreign currency trading company.

B And more recently, I ran a company called Cubix that was automated logistics, sold that company to Trimble, and I spent a couple of years at Trimble. But I think why I'm here in the show is when I'm probably best known as, you know, being the CEO of Revit. And so oddly enough, I worked at a company called Computer Vision many years ago. The founder of SolidWorks, which was a predominant company in the CAD space, was on the board of Revit, which was then called Charles River Software. But we worked together at computer vision, and he urged the team to hire me, based upon the relationship we had at Computer Vision. And I became the CEO of Revit about about a year after they started building the product. It was actually called Charles River Software at the time when I joined. And we changed the name to Revit.

B Revise instantly was sort of what that name was really all about for all you Revit fans out there. And, you know, it was an amazing job. I mean, I got to see, you know, got to travel all around the world and meet some of the most famous architects that were, you know, kind enough to give Revit a try in its earliest days and learned a lot about the business of architecture, you know, as as well as the workflows in architecture. And, you know, I've always been drawn to it, you know, and look. This is where we live and where we work. And so, you know, buildings are everything to our lives. So I it's it's just always attracted me, quite frankly. I, you know, so, you know, I've also been on the board of a company called Northforma and a few other companies in the AC space.

B And now I'm an advisor of HyArk, which is an incredible company automating the production building space from everything from design of of home plans to sales configuration. And and then now most recently, along with advising a few other companies, I'm I'm the executive chairman of ASOLAP.

A I didn't actually realize you had that hierarchy connection. They just did is it whether it's their series b that they just finished out?

B Yeah. They just raised a phenomenal amount of money. They are a juggernaut of a company right now that's changing the homebuilding industry dramatically. They're an amazing team of people that's, you know, privileged to work with.

A Yeah. And I believe I always kind of like the point, you may or may, like, not like me doing this. But the CEO is actually a Harvard GSE dropout that decided to go and pursue a high arc, instead of finish out his architecture degree. I wanna go back to you though. What was interesting to me is I I feel like it takes a certain type of mindset to do and be a startup, especially a serial startup entrepreneur. So where do you think that comes from

B for you? You know, you know, my dad always owned his own businesses, you know, and often said to me, I don't said to me, I don't think I can work for someone else ever. I need to to kind of run my own thing. And so but I so maybe I got that a little bit of that entrepreneurship from my dad. But more or less, I would say that having worked in big companies, you know, which I did at the beginning of my career, and then probably just being fortunate to get an opportunity to work in some smaller companies. It's very clear that in a company like HireArc or A Celeb, 5 or 6 people can get together on Monday and make a decision, and it can be changed on Wednesday if we immediately saw signs that we didn't do the right thing. And so the the complete the ability to make decisions very rapidly and, also, there's an excitement of every person's idea really counts in a company like that. It doesn't you know, what I've loved about startups, it doesn't matter if I'm the CEO, you know, or I'm the, you know, a salesperson who has just joined the company or an engineer. Everybody's ideas, particularly the people who talk to customers, those ideas are the most important.

B And, you know, listening to everyone's ideas and then rapidly moving Startups are all about speed, you know? And so, you know, and and, you know, sometimes you can work too fast, But, you know, being able to move quickly and then having everybody join around the same mission, it is a very exciting environment to always work in, which is why, you know, I've sold some of the companies and worked to, you know, to bigger companies and and and worked there for a year. And and I normally and not a knock against them, couldn't wait to get out and go back to, you know, a small team again.

A I mean, what was interesting to me when you were running through all of the companies that you did a start up for, they are not necessarily in the same industry too. And I think can we talk a little bit about that? Because, you know, architects pigeonhole themselves in in the worst way, saying like, they can't get out of their own way to do anything outside the industry. And then here, yourself, a serial entrepreneur that is running startups in multiple different industries. So so what are you taking from each one, and what drives the passion to to start up something in in the new industry?

B You know, a lot of it is the fun of learning something new, you know, and that's exciting to me. You know? So, like, I, you know, I love the I think it's the Michelangelo shirt. I'm I'm always learning. I don't know if you've seen that shirt. You know, that saying, but I think probably by him, I guess. It's attributed to him at least. Or maybe it was da Vinci. I'm not sure.

B But so I love to be learning something new. And so my expertise is sort of figuring out the product market fit and how to explain things to people so they understand the value of something and then how to build a software company. You know? And so in that respect, I am doing the same things, some of those same skills over and over again and applying it into a different, you know, space. To be honest with you, some of these spaces are super interesting and some are less so. And and maybe that's why I keep coming back to the world of architecture because I do find it, you know, very interesting and, you know, more because of the you know, accounting software can be only so much fun.

A Right.

B You know, something that makes a building, you know, a you know, a place we live in, you know, I mean, that's that's pretty cool.

A Yeah. No. I mean, I'm a little bit biased, but I I would have to agree. Buildings over accounting. Just for our listeners who's not used to kind of the the the language or the lingo of startups, help them understand or help me understand even better. What what does product market fit mean when you talk about that kind of being your what you're really good at?

B Well, I mean, there's all sorts of amazing technologies and things you can build with technology.

A Mhmm.

B Look, you know, we'll probably talk about AI at some point maybe in this conversation, and, oh my god, there are so many amazing things you can do with it. It doesn't mean that you could necessarily build something that would solve someone's business problem or someone that someone would be willing to spend their dot their hard earned dollars on to solve the business problem. You know, sometimes things are nice to have, but not absolutely necessary to have. So fine tuning a set of product features into something that a market in a repeatable way would want to acquire is what product market fit is really all about. And then and then you've got it right so that a business could be scaled as a result of it. So it isn't that you can, you know, there's always a few people that wanna buy something. But is there a home market? You can can you solve a home market? And that's what Productivity is about.

A Great. I just wanted to make sure that our our listeners are caught up with the language that you are using because a lot of them do just come from traditional architectural backgrounds. But let's dig into the architecture piece of it and why you keep coming back to architecture. You noted being 1, you know, one of the first CAD CAD salesman, and and even in your startups, you kind of found your way back to these architecture pieces. So what is it so interesting maybe beyond the buildings? Is it is it the opportunity even that our industry presents?

B You know, architecture has an opportunity to do something for people in the world. You know, not all the software, that I managed or sold in my life, you know, had that potential impact. So, you know, how this room feels I'm sitting in right now affects me all day. You know, Where you go to school, you know, what what that the efficiency of that building, you know, all of that. How a museum looks, how we feel when we walk in. I mean, all those things are affect our lives. You know? And so, you know, it's a privilege to be involved in technology that can make that more efficient because it's such a hard job to define it in in lines or in words.

A Yes. You

B know, it's it's it's so difficult to to turn that into that vision into something that can be actually made. And the construction model is more challenging because, you know, when you manufacture a product, you manufacture the same thing 1000 of times. But each building is a little bit different. You know? So you're you're taking your skills and you're applying it to make something unique, you know, with a little you know, that's why people hire architects to make something special, something different. And so, you know, that's that's kind of a really cool thing to to be involved in and to create technology that can allow people more often the problem is the tediousness of the whole problem holds people back from being as creative as they could be. And and that's not just limited to architecture, that's limited to anything that we do. You know, if I have to add the numbers up on a piece on the back of a brown paper bag, that's different than the spreadsheet counting them instantly for me or an accounting system automatically sending a bill out to a customer.

A Right.

B Now I'm freed up to think. Now I'm freed up to be creative Mhmm. As opposed to chasing an antiquated process or set of things that are just don't add value, but they have to be done.

A Right. But architects do a lot of that too. Right? Our set of things that don't Exactly. That have to be done. So let's let's dig a little bit into to that and you as chairman of ASLAB. Can you help our audience members though differentiate between obviously being an adviser at a startup like Hyarch and a chairman of ASLAB and how those roles might be a little bit different from one another?

B Yeah. Well, first off, at at ASLAB, I'm an I'm a chairman, which means I'm on the board of directors. So I have oversight responsibility for the company, you know, as well. You know, in a company like Hyatt, where I'm an advisor, I'm more of a consultant, so I'm helping problem solve various areas the company may need some of my expertise to move quicker. As an executive chairman at AceLab, I'm not only involved in oversight of the company, but I'm more involved in the day to day operations. I'm helping the team, you know, build processes, strategies, hire people, and, you know, more of a day to day operational responsibility.

A Yeah. So what is ACE Lab doing that attracted you so much that you actually wanted to step into the chairman role as just, you know, sort of just being advisory role to it?

B So I think we all wanna do things with our time that have an impact. You know, so if I think back to Revit, the world was drawing in AutoCAD in 2 d, pretty much lines and arcs for the most part in what was not a very intelligent representation of someone's ideas. And and Revit brought the concept of creating a three-dimensional parametric model of a building. And with that came a complete revolution in productivity and the ability to describe something for other people to understand it, to create drawings more quickly, to get takeoffs more quickly. You know? So that was a profound change to the world of architecture without a doubt. And, you know, I didn't build that software. Other brilliant people built it. I I was fortunate, you know, to to help, you know, guide the company.

B A slab is doing something I believe similar in the world of materials. You know? So you've got a great design. Okay. Now materials can make that design greater or it can ruin that design. And and the problem I think that architects face, I think that people graduate from school, like, excited about materials and they're in the all the innovations they may have learned about in school. But then reality sets in. Like, oh my god. I'm just working on drawings.

B Or, you know, like, I've been given some job to research something, and I'm calling manufacturers on the phone and waiting on 800 numbers. Well and there's just no time. I mean, architects are so stressed for time. And and the process around finding the optimal material for a project based upon aesthetics and performance and sustainability and climate issues. All those things is there's no time. There's no good process for it. And so material, which is as important as the design, is now like it's like, oh, let's go with what we know. Let's go with what we used before.

B And and here's the irony about that, Evelyn. Architects don't even have a good system to know what they historically used before. It's in the minds of one of the key partners that I have to go track down and ask. So not only is the firm not innovating on new products, there when the innovation and products are incredible happening every day, I'm not even that good at storing all my institutional knowledge about what it is that we did before. Yeah. So ASLIB is attacking this problem of trying to have, like, this integrated material management workflow from research to planning a project and what I need to find to finding it visually, which architects love. Because the other problem that architects have is they can't be an expert in every product. The whole firm can't be an expert in everything.

B So HintzLab sort of built this method of asking you questions to guide you to find the product that solves the the problem you're trying to solve on a project, and then we let you put it into a firm library so that you've got it institutionalized for every person in the firm, young people in the firm that are just learning about materials to go to this central hub, material hub for the firm. So I'm excited. I think you could say I'm passionate about it. As, you know, this complementing all the great design tools that have been evolving is an important workflow that just has not been optimized for the practice.

A Yeah. No. I definitely am guilty of, like, what is that like, what was the last Armstrong ceiling tile we use on that product like that project 5 years ago. Let's let's reuse that one again. And obviously, they're constantly evolving their materials, but unless their rep has stopped by recently or said something or I I took the time to stop by their booth in an expo floor, like, I'm I'm not necessarily I don't have time to go find a better ceiling tile for that specific project. So, you know, how is ACE Lab, I guess, helping surface these new materials to to architects too?

B ACE Lab has done this incredible work sort of behind the scenes over the last several years of indexing just about every building envelope product in the United States for, like, 30 up close to 30,000 products by 100 of attributes. And we're continuously doing that and continuously meeting with product manufacturers with a team of experts so that believe it or not, we can actually make recommendations to architects. Like, what is the right use case for this specific? And then, by the way, use some AI technology to have the platform do it automatically. So we're trying to stay we're trying to be the expert for the architect and and be the repository so that, you know, ask AceLab. You know, whether it's through one of our quizzes, you know, and our filters to find the right product or an expert helping or a or a library that you saved all these learnings inside of. But we're you know, that's that's what we're trying to do here is stay on top of all this so that we can free up the architect to spend more time on design or more times getting the right material. So because that's gonna be a better project outcome and a better world. You know, I don't I I don't wanna be too dramatic about it, but, you know, if you don't have the time to find more sustainable materials, then you'll then you'll keep going with that same product that you had before that that when you could have chosen one at the same price that was sustainable.

B But if we're sorting all those materials by the attributes around sustainability and certifications for you, And then we actually even put the products next to each other with all the attributes and let you shortlist them and compare them in one place instead of, like, opening up some spreadsheet or or or little stickies on your computer. This idea of keeping all the information in one place and then having colleagues be able to share it and look at it, that's that's how we move the industry forward.

A The other interesting thing to me is pricing. So when I was in a firm, I did a lot of k through 12 communities, universities. And then at some point, we would always end up being asked to VE the project. Right? But, you know, is is ACE Lab because it's all indexed and I feel like you can more clearly see the trade offs that you're making price over over value of manufacturing process as well as like the the performance of those materials too?

B This is really critical, and it's a real big problem. Because, you know, like, interest rates have gone up, you know, almost double or triple in some, you know, in some cases for what they were. So, you know, a $3,000,000 project is all of a sudden like a $4,000,000 project. You know? And and so that means that if the project's gonna continue, there has to be some value engineering. And so now I now I need to find other products that sort of meet the performance in the aesthetics, but they're less expensive, and I can still get them. So it lead time becomes very critical as well.

A Right.

B We're putting a massive effort. In fact, we just hired an expert into the company literally today that is gonna lead this effort of adding pricing information on all the products in ranges so that, you know, you you know, an architect can quickly get that quick look on, you know, does this wood window with this energy efficiency how does it compare to the aluminum window in this use case? And, oh, god. This is twice as expensive. That's not gonna work for my budget. You know? So and we wanna keep giving tools to do that quick understanding of where am I in the budget, what are my value engineering choices, what are my product substitution choices. And because that's the reality of what the client expects.

A What I also love about this, if you think about it, like, I know so many architects that actually rely on their their GCs. Like they can't actually fully price out what they're designing right until they get a GC involved. I feel like if you can be in capture pricing and, like, supply chain availability too, that places some of that power back in to the architects because then there's this long kinda turnover when it comes to, this is the design that we have in our rendering with this product in it. And then we go to the GC and we find out that is overpriced, and then we have to find out a new product. But it it shortens that whole negotiation process.

B It shortens that negotiation. Look. Architects are responsible for 70 to 80% of the decisions on most projects. And and but then it does eventually get to a contractor and then a v e phase could, you know, could take place. One of the interesting things we're doing in an ACE Lab is you can invite the contractor into your project, And they can see the products you've selected and begin to comment on them and say, hey. Listen. This is this looks like a great product, but it's a bear to install. You know? Or the time to install it is gonna cost us extra labor, or the delivery has been really bad, bad, or I I know of a less expensive solution that we trust now.

B And so that collaboration can be that that cycle of going back and forth can be shortened down through collaboration on the same information.

A Right. And then what I really love about AceLab, and I know I think we're going into, like, an ACE Lab love fest here though, but it's free for architects.

B It's free for architects. And the other interesting thing is it's founded by architects. So they've got they care about they're passionate. We keep hiring more and more architects and material experts. And so, you know, there's this, like, by architects for architects, you know, sort of, zen in the company. And, honestly, I am firm on the idea that we need to keep it free for architects because I don't want a barrier to change, to be in front of improving this workflow. You know? And that's, I think, critical so that, you know, there's no reason why an architecture firm can't pick this up and be be more productive.

A Yeah. And as somebody who is focused on business operations and building and productivity and giving time back to architects so they can actually spend their time, excited about I'm excited about. So if anyone else is listening to the podcast and is really interested in learning more about ACE Lab, we'll definitely drop it in the show notes, or go visit directly acelabusa.com and and register for an account.

B I just think that there's, you know, there's a big opportunity here to do better. And, you know, materials really matter. You know? And, I wanna ignite that excitement again about materials in this industry.

A Yeah. Materials is one of those things I am not a technical drawing person. I can't get excited, but I am kind of like I love just going through material libraries. So as things move from what is like the bigger things that take up a lot of space and firms and, you know, there's so much change in technology that is happening with materials. Just the idea that it's more easy to discover it on one platform, I think, is is just another reason why I'm super excited about what ASLAB is doing. I wanna go a little bit deeper into just tech within architecture in general. So, ACELab is one tool, but I feel like it's one tool of what we will see as many coming out to really help out the advancement of of the AEC industry. Taking a step back from your chairman role and looking more broadly about what's happening with AI and even how architects tend to be late adopters or later adopters of this technology.

A Right. Where do you envision the future of tech and AUC heading? And where is the biggest I've already

B been developed. Like, Hyac has been developing many of these already. ASLIB has been I've already been developed, like, Hyac has been developing many of these already, ASlip has 2, and other companies. Like, taking a PDF and translating it into a model, You know, just figuring out that, you know, this this these lines represent a master bedroom, and there are 5 windows in that room. And, you know, so sort of figuring out what that space is without someone having to input something into a new into another system. Having a a system read that information with an AI and automatically generate some of the intelligence that you might have generated had you designed it that way in that software to begin with. That's pretty cool. The other stuff is digital twin technology.

B So, you know, the ability to create a digital model of the as design from the at the as being built world to the as built world and compare it back to the as designed world. Because, you know, this building's gonna be around for the next, you know, 50, a 100 years, and we have to maintain it, and we have to renovate it and improve it. And, you know, the the way it was built isn't exactly the way it was designed because things had to be done on-site and all sorts of things occur and, you know, and the building shifts. And so how can we get accurate models, twins of the original design that then then can be lived on for the industry to improve it or maintain it. And so and then, you know, like, we're doing a bunch of things around search. Like, how about, like, automating recommendations? You know, one of the things you wanna do at ACELab is you tell us, I wanna optimize on price, performance, and sustainability in that order. And then, you know, we'll look at all the attributes and all the histories of what people are doing and recommend something based upon some sort of a scoring system, you know, so that we can really help hone in on a 100 choices, but 2 or 3 of the best choices based upon, you know, what it is that that architect is really trying to solve for in the moment. So, you know, those are just a few of the things that I'm seeing and and and being involved in myself on, on some opportunities.

A How as an architect, as a practitioner, do I stay engaged in all of these chain like, I would love to hear any recommendations on how like, I'm here trying to build my pipeline, you know, trying to make payroll every month, every other week, depending on how we pay your employees, making sure that I'm just keeping my my business afloat. The landscape around me is changing so quickly. How how do I understand all of that as a firm owner and begin to make adjustments to my current workflow.

B This may sound strange to you, but lean on the youngest people you're hiring into the firm. You know, because the youngest people that have completely grown up on technology, that it it it is completely more productive. And so these people are abhorred to, like, do menial tasks that make no sense, you know, manually. When they can learn of an automated system that solves the problem. It doesn't mean every automated system comes around to something you ought to implement in your firm. But, you know, allow young people to try things, introduce it to other people, and through the grassroots. And that's almost my advice to young people as well. Like, that's how you make them valuable to Affirm, you know, is by introducing change that you're not afraid to try and to and to introduce.

B It's gotta come from the grassroots. You can read things all the time. You can join Slack groups, and there are all sorts of resources that, you know, that you've probably been advising, you know, your your colleagues about. But it's the it's trying things in very small experiments. Because you you don't wanna bring something into your whole firm until you're really sure, but being not being afraid to try things and giving people little projects to experiment with.

A Yeah. And the other thing that I would love to get your perspective on is because I've I've had this discussion with colleagues before is why architects need to understand what's going on with AI. Because products that can change the market and shift the market as big as Revit, you know, there's now Autodesk competitors are coming in.

B Sure.

A And my my worry is that if we are not engaged as architects in the development of the technologies, then we're just gonna be forced to use these technologies that actually that actually would have been so much better off had they have had the architect's perspective in in the building of them.

B You know, I couldn't agree more. You know, there are very smart technologists, and then there are subject matter experts in the world. And the only way good software ever gets built is when you team tech smart technologists with subject matter experts, people that do the job for real. And, you know, also, there are a lot of interesting software out there that is so difficult and clunky to use that could be used for architects, but they won't use it because, you know, of an architect's visual sense and sensibility of design. And so, you know, quite frankly, a lesson for technologists. If you wanna you wanna solve architect's problems, collaborate with them. Get there, show them prototypes, get them to use early versions. And then, you know, yeah, it does soak up a little time for an architecture firm, but then they get their ideas imprinted and wind up with a product that would be useful to them.

B That's gonna ultimately save them time to, you know, design more, to be more creative, to get to build a better solution for their clients.

A Yeah. You know, I appreciate that view because I've had a discussion with my colleagues that they're like, you know, we're not technology people. We're not software people. It's not us to build the software. And I was like, but if you end up using the software, you absolutely need to be engaged in the conversation rather than have that software built without you. I wanted to back up a little bit to something that you said about leaning in on the younger folk because one of the pushbacks that I hear back from firm leaders is, you know, the younger individuals don't understand that this block I'm dragging around on on my computer screen is actually made up of a whole bunch of different components that go together. So how do you bridge the hand drawing is important because you're drawing every single element that goes into a detail, and that's crucial to learning construction on the site with the need for us to engage in these new digital tools to be more effective and productive.

B I think digital tools need to be more to be more have a better ability to explain what it is that's happening behind the scenes and to make recommendations to people as they do them. In other words, you know, I keep going back days a little bit. But if you if you select a piece of cladding, we could tell you what other pieces of the assembly are needed. Right? We we could explain that there's an assembly there and that there are fasteners that are needed. There are sealants that are needed. There there are connecting components. We can show you a picture at that moment of how that assembly goes together and then give you the choices of the compatible elements. So I really feel like the technology can play a better role illustrating to not just young architects, but even architects that have been practicing for a while that may not have all the experience of, you know, the people that have, you know, started by hand having to draw out, you know, every, every element.

B So to me, it's about the intelligence of some of these technologies to be both a solution and educational in the process.

A Yeah. No. I agree too. And, you know, with some of these new technologies, yes, they are intuitive, but there is definitely a learning curve that comes along with understanding what it is that you're manipulating. Right? So if the education is built in, I I think that's in terms of the ability to onboard people faster into the space. It helps with my change management that I need to deal with from a a digital technology transfer or digital transformation implementation.

B Firm leaders have to invest more in the training people. I mean, the best way to train young people and what how building gets put together is take them to building sites

A Right. Yeah.

B That are that are being built, you know, where the walls are opened. And then take a a CAD file out and show them, you know, this is where we are so far, and this is what's being built. And I think that that connection to the physical world is what's needed for young people to make that connection to, you know, whether it's lines and arcs or it's CAD lines or CAD models. They've got a they need that connection to the physical world.

A Yeah. So speaking of the young folks again, you know, we have a lot of younger listeners on the show. So one, what advice do you have to to aspiring architects, especially those that are like, oh, like how do I take this knowledge of ACE Lab and go tell my leaders now that we should consider using ACE Lab as somebody who might not necessarily be in a management position at a firm?

B I think you've got to take chances in life if you wanna make progress. And, you know, we should all wanna work places that, you know, reward that, quite frankly. And so I think tools like AceLab and others like them, try them on your piece of work. Show it to your colleague. Have them try it. Use a grassroots approach that says then you bring it to a more senior person and says, look, this didn't even cost us anything. And I just saved 20 hours and found 3 better products for this important project we're building for one of our most important clients. Really? Wow.

B Where did you find this? You know? And so and by the way, not everything you experiment with is gonna work. So, you know, my encouragement is don't be afraid to make a mistake. It's the only way we learn things. We don't learn things by doing everything right. But try use it on something real, show it to one person, show it to a second person, get a little consensus, build grassroots excitement, then bring it to a more senior person. And I think that's a good formula. I don't know that I wanna call all the senior partners of every firm and convince them to use ASLIB. I'd rather convince all the people in the firm, hands down doing work, make them more productive, and they're gonna hear about it, and it's gonna grow that way organically in a firm.

A And outside of ACE Lab, why, you know, what are some takeaways that you would like to give to to architects maybe who are also interested in having a more entrepreneurial spirit in in the field going forward?

B I think it's important to understand business, you know, and to and to learn about business and how it operates as well. Because you can't do a good job for your clients if you're not running a good business. Because you won't be able to hire the best talent. You won't be able to spend all the right time on something that you need to. And so understanding how a business really should run effectively, you know, is to me, a very important thing as well as being willing to experiment with technology and being you know, finding ways to make processes more efficient so you free people up to do what they went to school for, which is to do exciting design work.

A And then I wanna end with one last question. What are you most excited about or what gets you most excited about when you look at the future of the AEC industry and where it's headed?

B I think it's exploding with technology right now. I think, honestly, it was a little stagnant for, you know you know, Revit came along and some other design tools and was quiet for a while. I think it's exploding now. You know, digital twin, AI technology, database advanced search technologies, collaboration technologies, I think it's exploding right now. And it's a it it's gonna be a great time to make the built industry much more productive.

A Hi, disruptors. Thank you for joining us today on an episode of Practice Disrupted. If you like the content for today's show, you can find all of our past episodes over on practice of architecture.com/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining me, our speakers, and other disruptors in our community at practice of architecture.com/community. Our social media handle is practice of arch. That's practice of a r c h. We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to drop us a DM and say hello. Tune in next week for a new conversation on change in the profession.